411 Fact or Fiction 07.16.09: Angle vs. Foley, ECW's New Stars, Raw Guest Hosts and More!

Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 07.16.2009

Week 239 features Len Archibald and Andy Critchell talking about Dolph Ziggler, Tara as Knockouts Champion and more!



Welcome to the Wrestling Edition of 411: Fact or Fiction! I'm your host Jeremy Thomas, and this week we have a fellow Movie Zone writer going mano-a-mano with the Wrestling Zone's Extrreme Extractor! In one corner we have Around the World in 24 Frame's Len Archibald...and in the other, Andy Critchell of Extreme Extracts! All right, ring the bell and let's get to it.

Questions were sent out Monday morning.

Participants were told to expect WWE and TNA related questions.

If you would like to appear in the column, shoot me an email!

1. Kurt Angle vs. Mick Foley is the right choice for the World Title match at Victory Road from a booking perspective.



Len Archibald:: FACT. Simply put, I think there's two things going on: 1) I think TNA is looking to the future (scary) and are planting the seeds for Bound For Glory in L.A., where the main event could possibly be Angle vs. AJ for the World Title (at least I *think* that's where they're going) 2) Unfortunately, TNA has "booked themselves in a corner" with the whole Angle/Jarrett/Foley thing. Foley lost his title, he needs his "rematch" – of course leaving AJ and Joe out in the cold. It's Booking 101, but it's messy.

Andy Critchell:: FACT: This will be the 6th PPV in a row that has had either Foley, Angle, or both in the World Title match so it's clear that there is a desperate need for fresh blood in the title scene however from a storyline/booking perspective this is the right match up. The MEM beat down on Foley was vicious and some kind of response is definitely warranted. Plus, with JJ busy with Eric Young (one assumes) and Sting busy with Joe, Foley is really the only logical choice to face Angle for the belt. After Angle retains though they have to get somebody, ANYBODY, new in there to mix it up.

Score: 1 for 1


2. Considering the last couple of weeks of ECW, Abraham Washington and Yoshi Tatsu are the most likely of the latest crop of 'New Initiative Superstars' to break out.

Len Archibald:: FICTION. Simply put: I think the WWE machine is trying to align the stars for Sheamus to be the breakout star. Even though he wasn't around last week, upon his debut he gave a good introductory promo and a HELLISH SQUASH match. I like Yoshi, I really do – there's something about him that screams "plucky underdog". His match with Shelton was very good and well-structured in order for him to look good in defeat. Abraham Washington found a little footing after that ABYSMAL first "show" of his with the Bella Twins – egging on Tommy Dreamer and his weight until finally getting Koslov involved. I see him as kind of a 21st-century Jesse "The Body" who instigates feuds between wrestlers (always taking the side of the heel, of course). But I haven't seen him wrestle. Hell, I don't know if he's SUPPOSED to wrestle. So I can't claim they are most likely to be the break-outs; as well, there could be someone waiting in the wings who could blow us all away.

Andy Critchell:: FACT: Yoshi is a no-brainer. I was VERY impressed with him in his match with Shelton last week and I think the fact that he has a unique style that is likely completely foreign to the typical WWE fan will help get him over huge. Yoshi is quick, flashy, and a guy the kids can really get into. Washington is a little more risky but the improvement between weeks 1 and 2 of his segment showed me that the guy has got skills on the mic. I had more than one laugh out loud moment during his segment with Dreamer and I think that if Washington keeps moving in this direction we'll be enjoying him for a long time to come.

Score: 1 for 2


3. The AJ Styles/Kevin Nash and Samoa Joe/Sting matches should have been switched around to be AJ/Joe and Nash/Sting.

Len Archibald:: FICTION. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. AJ/Joe should NOT happen until AFTER Bound For Glory. If Dixie Carter and TNA are serious about "dramatically changing the landscape", they need to hold off on this – which could be their MONEY feud for TNA's next calendar year. Joe and Sting still have "unfinished business" and Nash is the next guy that AJ needs to get through to get one step closer to getting Kurt Angle (again, assuming the BFG Main Event is AJ vs. Angle).

Andy Critchell:: FICTION: For better or worse, these are fresher matchups than AJ/Joe and in the grand scheme of things both AJ and Joe are lesser stars than their opponents so the matches make sense as they are. TNA is hoping that both AJ & Joe will come out of these matches bigger stars than when they went in and if executed properly I think TNA will succeed to a certain degree.

Score: 2 for 3


4. Celebrities like Seth Green acting as guest host on Raw will yield little to no positive results for the company, creatively or ratings-wise.

Len Archibald:: FICTION. Hello? McFly! Trump=Ratings. We can all say that the "commercial free" aspect of the show may have contributed (and it did) to the overall rating, but if I recall, the WWE didn't push the commercial-free aspect of the show as much as they were pushing TRUMP; and numbers (4.5 rating) do not lie. We, I, you, the whole cynical IWC must admit that the WWE is NOT making shows for them. They are making it to hook casual viewers. As much as we may want to admit that "compelling storylines" and "definable characters" and "WRESTLING" will bring in the viewers, it is NOT the truth. More people came to see TRUMP than the actual wrestling content. Seth Green I'm not too sure about, but if they brought in a Mr. T, or (as I've seen someone suggest) that ANNOYING AS HELL couple from "The Hills", I could see people tuning in (could you imagine the HEAT that the couple would have?) It's a harsh reality – because I LOVED The Million Dollar Man's role last week – and if it was up to me, he'd be Raw GM permanantly, But it's not up to me, it's up to Vince, and Vince wants "guest hosts" – at this point, it's been proven that a one-off "slightly" mainstrean celebrity can boost ratings. My guilty pleasure would be a show run by THE BALDWINS: Alec can go on a "Glengary/Glenross" rant on the locker room while Stephen and HBK try to "save" souls and Daniel...Well, he could relapse and be a crack junkie making matches that don't make any sense.

Andy Critchell:: FICTION: I have two words for you: Donald Trump. Trump was part of the highest rated WM ever and one of the highest rated Raws in recent memory. In fact, WWE has done a fairly decent job over the past few years when dealing with celebs and there have been more hits than misses. Another byproduct of celeb involvement is that it can make WWE appear to be more mainstream rather than niche and can give WWE a bit more credibility in the entertainment world. Depending on the celebrity, there is the possibility that it will attract a casual fan or two and it might even bring a few former fans back into the fold. Finally, celebs could be a good cop out for creative in establishing new feuds, the guest host can just make a match because he/she thinks it would be neat to see and wham, a new feud is born. Providing new feuds can generate interest which generates ratings and improves show quality which generates PPV buys which generates money.

Score: 3 for 4


SWITCH!

5. Given his talent and the way he's being pushed, Dolph Ziggler will be able to settle comfortably into an upper-midcard heel for the foreseeable future on SmackDown.



Andy Critchell:: FACT: Over the past few weeks it has been made abundantly clear that Dolph has "it," that quality that separates jobbers from stars. He's got the goods in the ring, he's got the goods on the mic, and he just has a great presence that you don't see every day. Dolph wasn't given the best gimmick but he made it his own through hard work and consistent effort. His program with Khali was what put him on the map, who would have ever thought that would happen?

Len Archibald:: FACT. Ziggler was ALL OVER last week's SmackDown. He was given face time with (and BEAT) the "next big thing" (I think) in John Morrison. He was made to look like a pimp by hooking up with Maria. He got into the Intercontinental title hunt (and by proxy, the second-biggest storyline on the Blue Brand) by attacking Rey Misterio. AND Edge and Jericho basically handed Rey to him, giving him a slight "rub" to boost, before the show ended with him standing tall. He already "defeated" The Great Khali, he's been given some sweet-ass entrance music, and is making the most of his little run. I think the only thing stopping Dolph from going farther is 1) His name – can you see Tony Chimmel announcing "...AND NEW...WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION...DOLPH ZIGGLER!"? and 2) Himself. No one even REMEMEBERS he was in the Spirit Squad anymore; and that is a HELL of an accomplishment by itself.

Score: 4 for 5


6. You expect Jeff Jarrett vs. Eric Young and Team 3D vs. the British Invasion to be added to the Victory Road card.

Andy Critchell:: FICTION: I really only expect the JJ/EY match to be added. While I think that 3D/BI are building a nice feud, it is still too soon to put them on PPV.

Len Archibald:: FACT. I think it's heading that way. Unless a Russoriffic curveball is thrown in the next little while, these are the only feuds that make any sense at the moment. Just two points: I love Eric Young's more serious turn and The British Invasion need new wardrobe. That is all.

Score: 4 for 6


7. Breaking up Primo and Carlito as a tag team was a mistake and will be to the detriment of both men's careers.

Andy Critchell:: FICTION: I'm not even sure it is a mistake, much less a terrible one. In my mind, if Carlito was ever going to be a big star it would have happened already. Sure, he's got the talent but his ring work is occasionally lazy and/or sloppy so I think he's gone as high up the card as he is ever going to go. Primo, on the other hand, really seems to get it. I love watching this kid work and I really enjoy the goofy old-school stuff he does like the random cartwheel just to fire up the crowd. I think that fitness could be a problem for him in the future as I could easily see him packing on the pounds. But as long as he stays dedicated I could see him being an upper midcard player someday soon which is a higher position that the one he currently occupies.

Len Archibald:: FACT. Well, after Edge went on the shelf, it kinda looks a little short-sighted now, doesn't it? We all know that in this modern era of pro wrestling, every tag team MUST break up and feud, but here's why I don't think it will work – as opposed to Bret/Owen or Matt/Jeff: Time. Bret and Owen were ESTABLISHED for the better part of a few years as brothers. Even when Owen was out jobbing with Koko B. Ware in "High Energy", he was always referred to as "Bret's brother". When they tagged together, it was a big deal. When they exploded and feuded it was a big deal. Same with Matt and Jeff Hardy. They were together for YEARS. Even when they went their seperate ways for a while, they couldn't be away from each other in some capacity. Carlito and Primo needed this. They needed some more time invested in their characterization before they broke up. Show some DEFINABLE DIFFERENCES between the two through interviews and ring work. All it looks like is that one is pissed off at the other and they will feud for about 5-6 weeks – one will go over and we will never speak about this again. Shame.

Score: 4 for 7


8. Putting the Knockouts Championship on Tara, even as early as they have, was the right call to make.



Andy Critchell:: FICTION: I know that this is an old refrain but anytime TNA puts it's belt on a newly debuting former WWE talent is just makes the TNA talent look second-rate. Not only that, but Tara (Victoria) was jobbed out so much the last few years in WWE the her credibility was just about shot. What TNA needs to realize is that their entire audience watches WWE or is at least aware of what's going on. This isn't like the days of the Monday Night Wars when fans of WWF wouldn't know what happened in WCW and vice-versa. Every fan in TNA knows Tara's history and knows that in WWE she was treated like a second rate star and when she came in and after a very short time took the belt from one of the top home-grown acts in TNA, well it made TNA look very bush-league. Of course, this is nothing new; just ask Christian, Rhyno, Foley, and Angle.

Len Archibald:: FICTION. Again, I'm looking at this from a purely business-like perspective. Tara JUST arrived at TNA and was suddenly thrust into the Knockouts biggest storyline. That's all fine and all – but I guess I'm from the "old school" mindset of allowing a wrestler to WORK up the ladder before they reach any title. Tara could have spent months chasing Angelina Love, only to get derailed by feuds with other Knockouts or even having to run the gauntlet until she finally got her hands on Love at Bound for Glory. It's nice to see a title win on television, and the celebration was great, but it felt rushed. I'm afraid that in a few months, the win may not mean as much as it could have, creatively and financially.

Final Score: 5 for 8

Len and Andy agree more often than not, but just barely! Thank you very much to both men for their answers, and thank you all for reading. Come back next week for another edition of 411 Wrestling's Fact or Fiction!

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