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The Contentious Ten 07.27.09: The Top Ten Wrestlers Never To Be WWE Champion
Posted by John Peters on 07.27.2009



Last week's column seemed to generate a little less debate than the week before, but that's cool. People tend to be more passionate about things they consider the best, not the worst. I expect I'll get a large list of wrestlers I left off this week's column. However, just because there wasn't as much debate doesn't mean there weren't good comments. Here are …

Last Week's Top Ten Comments


10. The amount of retards who can't differentiate from the world heavyweight title and the wwe title on here is mindblowing.
FUCKING HELL REY AND CM PUNK have never EVER held the WWE title. Geez.
Pretty much agree with this list.
Posted By: Andrew Barbarash (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 02:03 AM


This comment pretty much summed up my thoughts. Let's take care of this right away:

These are various versions of the WWE/WWF Title:






Here is the WWE Title History.

This is the World Heavyweight Title:



Here is the World Heavyweight Title History

I think the difference is pretty clear, so I don't know why there is so much confusion. Both CM Punk and Rey Mysterio have yet to hold the WWE Title. That's why they're not on the list. However, that brings me to …

9. Some of you nerds need to get over yourself. The belts are equivalent, if you're a World Champion of one "brand" you are considered a WWE Champion, as they both comprise WWE. Nowhere does the article say "WWE Champion belt." The belt didn't even exist for half of the wrestlers on the list. It was the WWF Heavyweight Championship, or was referred to different things throughout the years. It was not "WWE Championship" or whatever nonsense you wannabe elitists are trying to pass off as proof of intellectual superiority. Jesus christ.
Posted By: Guest#8030 (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM


I may be a nerd, but since I wrote the column I knew what I meant. I talked about the WWWF, WWF and WWE Title, which are just different names for the same championship. I personally don't feel the belts are equivalent. The WWE Title has a 64-year history. The World Heavyweight Title, depending on how you look at it has a seven-year history, or is the WCW Title in another form. While it's true that both belts are counted as World Titles, and both belts have been featured in main events, the promotion is World Wrestling Entertainment, not World Championship Wrestling, so I feel that the WWE Title is the promotion's top belt.

A lot of people thought I should have included some other wrestlers on the list. This brings me to a collection of comments coming in at number …

8. Kevin Nash/Diesel isn't on this list why?
Posted By: The Rev (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 10:52 AM

I understand you wanting to incorporate kayfabe into these lists, but to fail to list JBL, Yokozuna and Diesel because they won loads of matches is silly.
Even if 60% of your judgment is kayfabe, the 40% that isn't should be dragging these guys right to the bottom of the list, no?
Posted By: Odin (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 07:53 AM

Another person who should be on the list for worst WWE Champions is Ric Flair. Take note that it's a list of worst WWE Champions, not World Champions. Be honest, what did Flair really do with his two short disappointing WWE Title reigns besides lose to Savage in his 1st PPV defense and then lose the belt by submission mere weeks later to Bret Hart on his 2nd reign?
Posted By: Kristian (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 12:16 AM


I'd answer these, but other readers provided great answers to why Diesel, Flair, JBL, and Yokozuna didn't make the list.

7. Not that I like the guy, but where are everybody's statistics to prove that JBL's reign killed ratings?
Seriously, I wanna see the ratings figures that show Bradshaw killed Smackdown. Show your work, marks!
Posted By: JTX (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I respect your reasoning. Very well thought out and articulated. I agree that Yokozuna and Diesel should not be on this list. Yoko is arguably one of the best and most agile "big men" of the sport. Very impressive to seem him move the way he does. Plus, he got guys over in the end, perfect heel champion.
Diesel was also valuable in that he gave us a new face champ to cheer for (Bret was getting *yawn* tiresome). Diesel was different, was able to help get Shawn over as a face, and he put on decent matches that made you care. If you carry a company for basically a year as champion, you deserve some credit.
I can easily see this column being one of my favorites to read here at 411. Keep up the great work, John.
Posted By: Daniel (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Besides last over an hour in arguably the most exciting Royal Rumble ever to win the title, Flair logged successful title defenses vs. Undertaker, Sid, Hogan, and Piper on house shows leading into WrestleMania VIII.
And you can't point to the fact that he lost most of those matches by DQ or countout because that was a staple of Flair NWA world title defenses throughout most of his eight total reigns during the prior 10 years.
Regarding Quimby's comments about Diesel's title reign, the "failure" of his reign is highly disputed. In fact, one 411 writer a few years ago (my apologies for forgetting his name) featured the Diesel WWF title reign in his "In defense of..." column and completely debunked that he was the worst drawing champion of all time. And people look at his bad matches with Sid, Mabel, and British Bulldog but forget he had some good-to-great matchups with Bret, Shawn, Owen, and Bigelow during that time.
Finally, to poffo316, JBL benefited from his title reign more than any other midcarder-to-main eventer in WWF/WWE history. People paid good money at house shows and to order pay-per-views to see anybody try and take the title off of him (be it Guerrero, Angle, Undertaker, Booker T, and even Big Show). And he turned back every challenge en route to dropping the title to Cena for his first title run.
Posted By: Jason S (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 01:03 PM

First, I take pride in being the #2 ranked commenter for the inaugural Contentious Ten column. The second column was just as good as the first.
To respond to several commenters regarding Yokozuna, he CANNOT be considered a failed champion. His title victories come over Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan; in the absence of an overwhelming babyface in the New Generation era, his Slam Challenge was a huge deal and led to the Lex Luger face turn (which led to Luger's over-the-top celebration for a count-out victory over 'Zuna at Summerslam, maybe a Contentious Ten nominee for highest unintentional comedy).
He "eliminated" opponents for months and was built up as the unbeatable champ until a somewhat fluky Bret Hart rematch at Wrestlemania XII, when he fell off the ringropes. I would argue that Yokozuna was the greatest heel champion in WWF/E history.
Posted By: BDC (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 07:50 PM


Great answers guys. Thanks!

6. Shawn and Diesel's first reigns should definitely be on here somewhere. Business tanked during both.
Diesel didn't carry the company so much as he kept things in stasis while more better, more popular options had to help make him look good (Shawn, Bret, Undertaker).
And Shawn's was just colossally awesome in how badly things went. His second reign too. I mean, McMahon considered taking the title off of him three different times (Bulldog, Mankind, Vader) because of how poorly he was doing as champ but only balked at the last second. The match quality was iffy since you'd get something great like Shawn/Mankind but then you'd turn around and see something like Shawn/Vader, which is only memorable because of Shawn's mid-match meltdown. What's even better is that the WWF had so grossly underestimated it's prime fanbase (young, adolescent males) that it thought that using Shawn to appeal to a new base in women would work. So by the time he dropped the belt to Sid, the male portion had turned on him almost completely for his prancing to the ring and posing in Playgirl. If you watched RAW during that era, it wasn't uncommon to spot a few Shawn is gay signs during the show. And his infamous "lost my smile" speech while forfeiting the WWF Title was only made better by the fact that they zoomed in only this one crying woman who's surrounded by a crowd of jeering men. I mean shit, Sid was turned into the de facto face during any portion of that feud where they didn't wrestle near San Antonio, and he was doing crazy shit like hitting geriatic Jose Lothario in the face with a TV camera. While today that may be full of win, back then that was still clearly a heel move. Shawn's third reign after Montreal was his only meaningful one. Even the one he won in the Elimination Chamber was pretty terrible. Didn't he only defend it like once before losing it after a month?
Posted By: Guest#6222 (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 02:56 PM


This is kind of a hold over from two weeks ago, but this Guest pretty much summed up why Shawn Michaels didn't make my Top Ten WWE Champions. He just wasn't that great of a champion. However, he certainly wasn't one of the worst. Based on people's comments two weeks ago, I think that if I listed him as one of the worst champions people's heads would have exploded in anger.

5. Two points: first of all The Big Show's name is Paul Wight, not White. Secondly, I have to call you out on branding Buddy Rogers's championship a failure. Without the prestige of someone as exalted as Rogers as first champ, the WWWF would never have gotten off the ground. Harly a failure to help establish a new promotion. Of course, given what VKM Jr. and his "sports entertainment" concept have done to pro wrestling, maybe we all would have been better off if Rogers had stayed in the NWA.
Posted By: the ghost of Johnny Valentine (Guest) on July 21, 2009 at 10:33 PM


Thanks for the correction on Paul Wight's name, that was a proofreading mistake. Remember, to always proofread your work before you turn it in, regardless of what your job is (I'm a teacher if you can't tell). Second, it's funny; as I was finding and watching videos of Rogers I was reconsidering his placement, if not his inclusion on the list. I actually got an email from a reader concerning this as well. If you just take his official time as WWWF Champion he was a pretty awful champion. However if you consider his role in establishing the promotion, or even the period in which he was claiming to be World Champion he would be one of the most important wrestlers in history. I think in hindsight I would probably bump Rogers up a notch or too.

4. Um....Pedro Martinez?
Try Pedro Morales, jabroni.
Do your homework or don't fucking write a wrestling column.
Posted By: Guest#1625 (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 01:46 PM


This one made me laugh. Some people (a lot of people actually) don't read very carefully. I didn't write "Martinez," a commenter from two weeks ago did. Please don't tell me to do my "homework" if you're not going to read the article before you insult the amount of work, research and thought I put into writing this column.

3. If you're looking into the titles reigns themsleves and not the controversy surronding it, I'd say RVD had a better title reign than Jeff Hardy because at least he had a successful title defense (Edge, Vengenace 2006) while Jeff lost his first title defense at the Royal Rumble!
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 01:20 AM


This was an excellent point. Hardy probably had a worse title reign then Van Dam, but I do think having to drop the belt in disgrace so he could start his drug suspension, is a huge black eye on Van Dam's reign.

2. A few readers wrote comments like this:

Vince McMahon was arguably the biggest heel of the attitude era. i think it was fitting that he won the title in a russo-rific fashion. The only thing i find wrong with the reign though is that he didn't transition the title to anyone or put anyone over. that was a wasted opportunity. austin should have been at the raw where vince forfeited and just squashed vince for the title.
Posted By: Guest#2795 (Guest) on July 21, 2009 at 05:37 PM


Although The_horrible_fanfare and Lance O'Leary pointed this out I wanted to comment on it.

Perhaps if he had stolen the WWF Title from Austin, a heel Vince McMahon title reign would have made some sense. However, Vince was a face when he won the belt from an unproven as champion, Triple H, making The Game look awful in the process. His reign made very little sense in the context that he won it.

1. Perhaps the most terrible thing about Kane's title reign was that it introduced the mentality that the ppv match doesn't really matter. Every one of the previous "undeserving" champions served the purpose of transitioning the title and the company into a new direction. Kane's was the first completely irrelevant title reign. I think it would have been better if they'd stuck to their guns and given him a couple of months to monster his way through a list of challengers while Austin fought for another shot. What we got instead was a first glimpse at how the ppv results can be nullified one night later, even with the all important WWE Championship at stake. This begets Austin losing his last ever shot to the Undertaker, but he filled out a secret contract that he still uses to win the title on Raw, and Batista winning the title for a couple days just so he doesn't look like a lame challenger all the time. It used to be an interesting situation when the champion was defending against someone who the situation dictated has to win (such as a first blood match against a masked man who will set himself on fire if he loses) but logic dictated is not going to get the title (such as Kane). It made you want to watch just to see how they would get around this booking. Now we know that they'll just go ahead and change the title because in one night they can get right back to where they started.
Posted By: Lance O' Leary (Guest) on July 20, 2009 at 03:31 PM


Thank you so much for mentioning this. It's an excellent point that I failed to mention. In fact, when considering this point Kane should easily be dropped to the number 2 slot, and Stasiak should get to move up one. Kane's one day reign really changed the way WWE and other promotions are willing to book their storylines and their world championships.


Wrestling is an interesting sport to examine in terms of quantifying the quality of its performers. Because wrestling is scripted, being a champion doesn't mean that a wrestler really is the best "wrestler" in the promotion, it just means that he is marketable enough to be accentuated with a shiny gold belt. Of course world champions are usually individuals who are at the pinnacle of popularity (or in the case of heels, the pinnacle of infamy) and are made the focal point of the promotion or brand by nature of the belt. However, some wrestlers have such a presence, such a following, that they rise to the same level of prominence as world champions without ever winning a world title.
In the current situation of WWE having multiple world championships, and the climate of frequent, sometimes nonsensical, title changes, most popular wrestlers seem to get their chance atop the heap as world champion. Nevertheless, there are, through history a number of significant WWE wrestlers who never won the promotion's world championship but still have had as great an impact on professional wrestling as some of those who have. Please note, some of these wrestlers have won World Titles in WCW or AWA, I'm looking at their WWE careers. It is with these wrestlers in mind that I present to you:

The Top Ten WWE Wrestlers Never to Win a WWE World Championship



Honorable Mentions





Gorilla Monsoon


Monsoon had a longstanding rivalry with Bruno Sammartino that resulted in him nearly capturing the WWWF Title on several occasions. Unfortunately for Monsoon the title was almost stationary when he was fighting for it.



Killer Kowalski


Another of Sammartino's many rivals. Kowalski may have been Sammartino's most tenacious and frequent competitor. Kowalski would have made a good transitional champion or could have even had a more lengthy run at the top had heels really gotten a chance in the early days of the promotion.



Greg "The Hammer" Valentine


After a match with Bob Backlund at Madison Square Garden Valentine was actually awarded the WWF Title by a dazed referee, even though Backlund actually won. Some say this resulted in the title being officially held up, but Backlund continue to defend the belt around the rest of the country. The mistake could have made for a more interesting storyline if they had actually let Valentine act as the champion.



Vader


Vader had an exciting feud with Shawn Michaels over the WWF Title, but after losing in the Summer Slam main event only received the occasional title shot. It has, however, been reported that it was Vader, not Sid, who was supposed to take the title off Michaels at the 1996 Survivor Series.



Jeff Jarrett


The six time Intercontinental Champion was one of the most hated heels in the WWF at the time of his controversial departure, and may have been in line for a main event run after dropping the Intercontinental Title to Chyna, had he stuck around.

X



"The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith



Davey Boy Smith, "The British Bulldog," shared a pedigree similar to other WWF/WWE Champion wrestlers like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and in more recent times, Jeff Hardy. Smith entered the promotion as a tag team specialist with his partner, the Dynamite Kid. The British Bulldogs, as they were known, teamed for several years and captured the WWF Tag Team Championships, but as the years went on Dynamite's health and backstage reputation grew progressively worse. Eventually the Bulldogs quit the WWF but Smith returned a few months later and started a moderately successful singles run, which culminated in him winning the Intercontinental Title in his home country from his brother-in-law Bret "The Hitman" Hart in the main event of Summer Slam 1992. A few months later he dropped the belt to Shawn Michaels and was allegedly released for drug related issues. Smith would spend a year in WCW before making his return to the WWF. It was during this period that he achieved, arguably, his highest level of success.

In 1995 he was, as a fan favorite, the runner up of the Royal Rumble match, but before the end of August he had turned heel attacking then champion Diesel. He would main event both the October and December In Your House pay-per-views, fighting Diesel at the former and Bret Hart at the latter. However, it was his WWF Title match against Shawn Michaels at In Your House: Beware of Dog that he came up with a disputed victory over the WWF Champion. The end of the match saw two referees (the original ref, and one who ran down when the original was knocked out) count both men's shoulders down after Michaels executed a German suplex. One of the referees argued that Smith had won, the other said Michaels had. The two fought in a rematch a month later at King of the Ring, where Michaels pinned him after connecting with his super kick.









Davey Boy Smith would never come close to winning the WWF Title again, save for his participation in a six man match for the vacant title at Unforgiven 99. However, he makes the list because he was the WWF's go-to heel for several pay-per-views during the first few months of the new In Your House venture, and managed to have some of the most exciting matches during the 95-96 time period. Had circumstances been slightly different he may have ended up with a brief run at the top.


IX



"Superfly" Jimmy Snuka



Although "Superfly" Jimmy Snuka spent most of his career as a beloved hero he started his WWF career as a villain under the guidance of Lou Albano. He was almost immediately plunged into a feud with WWF Champion Bob Backlund and battled him for several months. The finale of the rivalry was the famous Madison Square Garden steel cage match that saw Snuka leap off the top of the cage in an attempt to splash the champion. Backlund rolled out of the way and subsequently won the match. A few months later Snuka turned face after discovering that Albano was cheating him.

Due to the fact the WWF was dominated at the time by long reigning baby face champions Bob Backlund and Hulk Hogan, Snuka, as a fan favorite never really got the opportunity to go after the title. Nevertheless, he still had a very successful run that included feuding with Don Muraco over the Intercontinental Title. It was this rivalry that resulted in his career defining moment: him connecting with a Superfly splash off the top of a steel cage. He also had a main event level feud with Roddy Piper that culminated at the first WrestleMania where Snuka was in the corner of Mr. T and Hulk Hogan. Snuka left the promotion shortly after, but returned five years later. His second run was less successful, as he lost to several stars on their way toward the top of the card. However, it was the reputation he had built during his first run that made his opponent's victories meaningful.



Although Snuka was never officially a main event talent in the WWF he makes the top ten due to the fact that he would have been a top drawing champion as a face or a heel. His look, charisma, and mesmerizing finishing move influenced several modern stars to become wrestlers in the first place, and would have been more than enough to carry him through a championship reign. Had the WWF Title changed hands frequently during this period he may have enjoyed several short title reigns.


VIII



"Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorff



Despite being one of Hulk Hogan's first challengers for the WWF Title, for most of his career Paul Orndorff was either a second fiddle heel or a third fiddle baby face. However, there was a period between 1984 and 1987 where Paul Orndorff was a serious threat to Hogan's Championship. Orndorff was Roddy Piper's right hand man in his feud with Hulk Hogan, which culminated in the main event match of the first WrestleMania. In that match Orndorff was on the receiving end of shot from Bob Orton's (his corner man for the match) cast, and subsequently lost the fall to Hogan. He was then abandoned by Piper and Orton, and later befriended by Hogan.

Orndorff became one of Hogan's main allies, and after about a year, like many main event level friendships, jealousy and frustration started to eat away at the non-champion. Predictably, "Mr. Wonderful" abandoned Hogan in a tag match and subsequently attacked him. The two feuded for several months and had a showdown at The Big Event, where Hogan won by disqualification. Several months later Orndorff battled Hogan in a cage match on Saturday Night's Main Event. The finish saw both men scale the cage and both men dropped to the floor at almost exactly the same time. However, it was declared that Hogan was the winner. Despite coming within inches of capturing the WWF Title, Orndorff quickly faded from the title hunt due to an injured arm.



The reason he makes the list is his feud with Hogan was a tremendous draw (The Big Event's live audience exceeded 70,000) and had he taken the title from Hogan, fans would have easily paid money to see Hogan get his revenge. Perhaps if the WWF had been being booked like it is today Orndorff would have had a brief WWF Title reign to his credit, but few can say they, literally, came as close to accomplishing that goal as Paul Orndorff.


VII



Scott "Razor Ramon" Hall


Razor Ramon is a rare case where, as a WWF rookie, he was in more of a position to capture the WWF Title than when he was a veteran. Ramon debuted with a bang, being immediately thrust into the main event program between Ric Flair and Randy Savage, where he attacked Savage injuring his knee, subsequently resulting in him losing the WWF Title to Flair. Ramon greatly benefited from the departure The Ultimate Warrior, which sent the WWF scrambling to reconfigure various feuds, the most important being the 1992 Survivor Series main event tag match. Mr. Perfect was turned face and recruited to be Randy Savage's partner and Ramon was tapped to be Flair's partner. Although Flair and Ramon lost by disqualification the high profile feud elevated Ramon to a pay-per-view (back when there were only four a year) WWF Title shot against Bret Hart at the 1993 Royal Rumble. After his loss to "The Hitman," "The Bad Guy" feuded with former champion Bob Backlund.









Ramon slipped down into the midcard but turned face following a shocking loss to The 1-2-3 Kid. His newfound popularity propelled him to his first Intercontinental Championship, and a feud with Shawn Michaels that culminated in the famous WrestleMania X ladder match. Even though Michaels would ultimately reap the long-term rewards of the groundbreaking match, it was Razor Ramon who actually won the match. Ramon would feud over the Intercontinental Title with various opponents for the rest of his WWF tenure, and never achieved true main event status.

In WCW Scott Hall would go on to reach a significant level of success through the nWo angle, but failed to capture the World Title there as well. Hall had a brief return to the WWF/WWE in 2002, but was unable to keep his alcohol and personal problems (which had been escalating for several years) under control. Although Hall/Ramon was never really a main event player he makes the list in a "what could have been" fashion. Had Hall not left the WWF in 1996 his previous feud with Shawn Michaels, and his association with the backstage Clique would have most likely resulted in him receiving a main event level push, and possibly a run with the WWF Title. He had, with out a doubt, all of the physical and vocal attributes that would have made him an excellent candidate to be the WWF Champion.

VI



"Mr. Perfect" Curt Henning


Mr. Perfect was one of the best workers ever to grace a WWF ring. In fact his only attribute to rival his incredible wrestling ability was his charisma. Perfect, as a wrestler, had the ideal blend of athleticism, personality, and technical skills to be one of the most successful wrestlers of all time. When the Mr. Perfect character debuted in 1988 it was an instant success. Fans hated the cocky overtures of Henning, but as it turned out he was able to back them up in the ring. The reactions he was getting from the fans forced WWF management to take notice and by the end of 1989 Perfect was fighting with Hulk Hogan over the WWF Title. It was heavily rumored that Perfect was scheduled to win the 1990 Royal Rumble until Hogan nixed those plans. A few months later Perfect suffered his first clean loss to Brutus Beefcake at WrestleMania VI.





The loss didn't slow Perfect down and he rebounded defeating Tito Santana in a tournament final for the vacant Intercontinental Title. Although he would lose the belt to Kerry Von Erich at Summer Slam he would win the title back a few months later. He would go on to hold the belt for about eight months before dropping it to Bret Hart in a classic match at Summer Slam 1991. A chronic back injury kept him out of the ring for more than a year, but he stayed in the spotlight serving as Ric Flair's "executive consultant," before eventually turning on him and turning face in the process, and ultimately defeating him in a "loser leaves the WWF match." Perfect would subsequently feud with Lex Luger and Shawn Michaels before he disappeared from the promotion for several months. Perfect returned in a non-wrestling capacity at WrestleMania X as a guest referee for the Luger/Yokozuna match, but his back injury kept him out of a feud with Luger. More than a year later Perfect returned as a color commentator and ended up acting as a mentor to Triple H before leaving the promotion for WCW.

Although Perfect had a brush with the main event during his feud with Hogan, his poor health, and bad timing kept him out of the WWF Title picture for the remainder of his career. The reason for his placement on the list is that he undoubtedly had the skills, temperament and charisma to carry the WWF Title for a significant amount of time. Had he not left the WWF in 1996, and stayed injury free he could have easily been tapped as a viable champion during the tumultuous year in the WWF that was 1997.


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V



Lex Luger


Of all the men on this list Lex Luger may be the man who's lack of a WWF Title reign is the most surprising. Luger was "The Total Package" in nearly every sense of the word. He had a body like a Greek god, and had enough charisma to more than captivate a crowd. When he joined the ranks of WWF in 1993 he debuted as "The Narcissist," a generic "arrogant" gimmick. However, only a few months later Luger displayed a new persona, that of a super American patriot. Then Champion, the 500 pound plus Yokozuna had issued a 4th of July bodyslam challenge on the deck of the USS Intrepid. When it seemed like all of the challengers had been exhausted Luger landed in a helicopter and stepped out in clad in red, white and blue, stared down the champion, struck him with his steel plate loaded forearm and bodyslammed him. Luger spent the next month touring the country in his bus, "The Lex Express," to hype his match with Yokozuna at Summer Slam. His showdown with the champion may have been the most anticipated main event in Summer Slam history up to that point, but the WWF decided not to pull the trigger and Luger only won the match by count out. As per a pre-match stipulation Luger failed to capture the title in the only opportunity he would receive against Yokozuna.





Through the fall Luger would continue to feud with Yokozuna in a non-title capacity, and with Finland's Ludvig Borga. However, Luger had an ace in the hole to get back in the title hunt. If he won the Royal Rumble he would get a shot at the WWF Champion at WrestleMania X. As it turned out both he and Bret Hart eliminated each other at the same time and were declared co-winners of the match. Luger would win a coin toss to decide which of the two would get the first crack at the WWF Title. Unfortunately for Luger he would lose his match by disqualification after putting his hands on the guest referee Mr. Perfect. Although Bret Hart walked out of WrestleMania the champion Luger did not become an immediate challenger, and before long his star in the WWF had fallen. Eventually he would be relegated to teaming with Davey Boy Smith, and eventually made a surprise jump back to WCW.

There was a report that Luger was actually supposed to win the WWF Title at WrestleMania, but he accidentally leaked the finish to a reporter, so the plans were changed. If the story is true then Luger was his own worst enemy in the WWF, however, I have read conflicting accounts of the booking of the event. Regardless, Luger makes the list because he was a bona fide main event level talent who seemed destined for a run with the WWF Title. For whatever reason it just never panned out for him.

IV



"The King of Harts" "The Black Hart" Owen Hart


There were few wrestlers in WWF's "New Generation" who could whip up the crowd and wrestle a match like Owen Hart. By himself he was an incredible talent and one of the most well rounded wrestlers of all time, but his size and his look would have held him back had it not been for his relationship with his more established, more successful brother, Bret. As the Blue Blazer, Owen was essentially a glorified jobber, but as Bret's bitter, jealous, younger brother he was a main event level star.

Owen proved his worth by beating his brother at WrestleMania X, the same night "The Hit Man" won the WWF Title. A few months later Owen won the King of the Ring and was propelled to a steel cage showdown with his brother at Summer Slam 1994. Although Owen lost the match he put on such a show that few would have doubted his worthiness as champion had he won. Although he would never wrestle for the WWF Title on such a big stage again, Owen managed to stay in the spotlight, albeit in a diminished role.









There were several points in his career where an Owen Hart World Title reign would have worked well. His feud with his brother could have been extended to the 94 Survivor Series, by either having had him win the Title at Summer Slam, or by having him play Bob Backlund's role, and be the transitional champion between Bret Hart and Diesel. The other perfect place for an Owen Hart Title reign would have been right after the 1997 Survivor Series. As "The Black Hart" Owen's championship ambitions would have been legitimate due to his need to avenge his brothers humiliation at the hands of Shawn Michaels. Of course, Michaels, the established champion, had a date with destiny and Steve Austin at WrestleMania XIV, but Hart would have been the perfect opponent for Austin, based on their history, post WrestleMania.

III



Jake "The Snake" Roberts


There are only a handful of wrestlers who have been more loved and more hated than Jake "The Snake" Roberts. With his trademark, python filled, sack in tow, he had the ability to excite the crowd like few others regardless of what side of the morality line he was on. Roberts was a particularly interesting character because the audience really played a role in dictating whether he was a face or a heel, as he was always the same devious, manipulative schemer; it was just that sometimes he attacked fan favorites and sometimes he attacked villains.

Robert's lack of title success, like Jimmy Snuka's, was mainly a matter of timing. For the bulk of his WWF tenure, he played a baby face role. During that time strong popular wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage (before his heel turn) and The Ultimate Warrior reigned as WWF Champion, so Roberts would have had a hard time staying popular and wrestling for the belt. Instead he wrestled in near main event feuds with Rick Rude, Andre the Giant, and Ted DiBiase. However, when Roberts turned heel after Summer Slam 91 he could have had a decent shot at feuding for the WWF Title. Unfortunately he chose to sadistically attack Randy Savage and Miss Elizabeth instead of the reining champion Hulk Hogan, but the feud seemed destined to elevate him to the top of the card.





By WrestleMania VIII his feud with Savage had finished and he had moved on to battling The Undertaker, whom he lost to just prior to a lengthy departure from the WWF. Savage won the WWF Title minutes later at the same event. Roberts, had he stayed around could have had his first WWF Championship feud with the "Macho Man." Whether or not he would have captured the title is up for debate, but what isn't is that Jake Roberts would have made for an interesting and highly successful champion, as he could have walked the line between good and evil throughout his reign. Sadly, it is likely that Jake Roberts's problems with drugs an alcohol would have, in the long run, ultimately kept him out of the WWF Title picture.

II



"The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase


Of all the men on this list Ted DiBiase is the only man to have actually wrestled as the WWF Champion. Shortly after his debut as the Million Dollar Man, DiBiase offered to buy the WWF Championship from Hulk Hogan, who after a brief tease responded with a "Hell no!" Not being one to be turned down DiBiase recruited Andre the Giant and a referee's evil twin, and on the live show, The Main Event, he put his plan into action. Andre captured the WWF Title in highly controversial fashion and almost immediately surrendered the belt to DiBiase. DiBiase actually was announced as the WWF Champion at a few house shows after the event, but WWF President Jack Tunney eventually declared that the WWF Title could not be bought or sold, and that the title had been effectively vacated. DiBiase would make it to the tournament final to crown a new WWF Champion at WrestleMania IV, a match he had been heavily rumored to win, but lost to Randy Savage.





DiBiase would spend most of the rest of his in-ring career feuding with wrestlers outside of the WWF Title picture like Dusty Rhodes and Jake Roberts, but he was frequently tapped as a go-to opponent for popular WWF Champions. He was on the opposing teams of Hulk Hogan's teams at the 1988 and 1989 Survivor Series and ended up going against Hogan and WWF Champion The Ultimate Warrior in the Grand Finale match at the 1990 Survivor Series. Eventually DiBiase found some gold when he teamed with Irwin R. Schyster to form Money Incorporated. Unfortunately injuries spelled the end of his in-ring career a short time later.

The reason DiBiase earns such a high spot on this list is that from his introduction in 1987 to his move to tag wrestling in 1992, DiBiase was, almost exclusively (aside from Randy Savage) the primary heel in the WWF. He had battles with every popular champion during that time period, and would have had a tremendously successful run as a villainous champion buying his way through his title defenses, any time between 1988 and 1991.

I



"Hot Rod" "Rowdy" Roddy Piper


Roddy Piper has, many times, questioned the claim that Hulk Hogan was the man most responsible for the wrestling boom in the 1980s, asking if the fans would have loved Hogan so much if they hadn't hated him as much as they did. It's hard to argue with claim embedded in his question. Piper was, without a doubt the leader of the heels in the morally divided WWF locker room of the mid 1980s. It was his feud with Hogan that fueled the "Rock 'n' Wrestling," era leading to the MTV special "The War to Settle the Score," where Piper lost a WWF Title match to Hulk Hogan by disqualification. The MTV show essentially acted as a build up device to the first WrestleMania. While Piper's team lost the WrestleMania main event he didn't take the fall and his rivalry with Hogan continued. Their battle not only set up the first WrestleMania but also The Wrestling Classic, the WWF's first foray into pay-per-view. Piper would once again lose his high profile title match due to disqualification. After that event Piper would rekindle his feud with Mr. T, but was starting to get some positive fan reaction. The man the people loved to hate was slowly just becoming a man they loved. Once he crossed that boundary there was no going back for Piper and he wrestled his "retirement" match against Adrian Adonis as a fan favorite at WrestleMania III.





Piper would return two years later and had some memorable feuds, one of the most notable against Bad News Brown which resulted in a match at WrestleMania VI where Piper pained half of his body black. By 1991 Piper found himself back in the main event scene as his old NWA rival Ric Flair had arrived in the WWF. Although Ric would win the WWF Title a few months later at the Royal Rumble Piper would not get an opportunity to wrestle him for it, as on the same night Piper captured the Intercontinental Title from The Mountie. Piper put in a good showing later in the evening in the Royal Rumble match for the vacant WWF Title, and was named as one of the six possible challengers for Flair's belt at WrestleMania VIII, but ended up not being chosen. Instead he wrestled a classic match with Bret Hart, and lost cleanly, one of only a handful of such losses in his career. Piper would go on to play a number of different roles for the remainder of his career, including a memorable run as WWF President. Eventually he joined WCW to rekindle his feud with Hulk Hogan but failed to capture the belt from him.

If there were anyone who could have taken the title off of Hulk Hogan and drawn in crowds out of sheer hate in the mid 1980s it would have been Roddy Piper. He had the ability to hold the crowd in the palm of his hand and elicit some of the most vocal responses. While Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon can be credited for bringing the WWF to a national stage it was Piper's ostentatious antics as the chief villain that drove the storylines forward. In the hands of anyone less the entire "Rock ‘n' Wrestling" storyline might have failed, and with it the World Wrestling Federation. There is no doubt that if Piper were just starting out his WWE career today that he would, in very little time, be wearing one of WWE's top prizes around his waist.


Well, with Night of Champions taking place last night I'll be shifting my focus off of the WWE Title and on to WWE's second biggest show of the year, SummerSlam. Next week marks part one of a two-part column ranking every SummerSlam.

Did I Fail Epically? Got Comments? You Know You Do!



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Comments (115)

 
Personally I would have had Bad News Brown on the list. (Mostly because the Stone Cold character borrows a hell of a lot from it and I always like his fighting style in the ring.)

Posted By: Dave (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:11 PM

 
 
Move Perfect to number four and you got a pretty good list.

I took a hiatus as a fan in the early 90s, but did Rick Rude ever win the title? If not, he should be on this list.


Posted By: Big Fat Fag (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:15 PM

 
 
This list is beyond truth. All of them in there prime should of been world heavyweight champion.

Posted By: Drew (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:18 PM

 
 
Yep great list I agree with most of it.. though I wouldof always bout Perfect as a better champ than Owen.

If I did my top 5 it would go:

1) Dibiase
2) Perfect
3) Piper
4) Jake Roberts
5) Rick Rude

I think any of the above 5 men would of been incredibly over champs as heels... and drawn a lot of money.


Posted By: Guest#2435 (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:47 PM

 
 
In just three weeks, this has officially become the best column on 411wrestling. I don't typically go into Tony Schiavonne hyperbole mode like that, but dude, you've earned it.

Posted By: Martin Lawrence (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:54 PM

 
 
You got the top 3 spot on I think. Piper should have had at least one run with the big belt. Owen at 4 though? Come on. The only time he was really in position was the feud with Bret and while that was a good feud wrestling wise I feel few fans ever viewed Owen in that upper echelon. In fact as a fan I always viewed him as being there due to a lack of overall talent in the WWF at the time.

One man who should be near the top and who didn't even get an honorable mention is Ravishing Rick Rude. The guy was way over as the IC champ and then never really got a chance to feud with Hogan. He did get a shot at the Ultimate Warrior at Summerslam and probably would have been a world champ in WCW had he not had the career ending neck injury. Who is to say that he wouldn't have come back to the WWE and been a player. Should have been on the list.


Posted By: Willie D (Guest)  on July 26, 2009 at 11:57 PM

 
 
dont forget-

rick rude: he was heat incarnate.

tito santana: with the wwe making routine stops in mexico, he would have won it easily if he competed today.

ken kennedy: mitb winner, suppose to main event wm 24.

ken shamrock: he was over as hell in 1997 and even more in 98. it looked as if he was being set up to be wwf champ when he beat both bret and hbk clean.

carlito and shelton: wasted potential.


Posted By: rey (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:04 AM

 
 
Lex Luger? Really? And above Mr. Perfect? And for further reference please remember his name is HENNIG, not HENNING.

Posted By: Patrick Mullin (Registered)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:05 AM

 
 
bad news brown was a stone cold prototype.

i heard bam bam bigelow was promised a run with the wwf title for jobbing to lawrence taylor.


Posted By: jd (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:14 AM

 
 
I would have to have Rick Rude and Ricky Steamboat somewhere on the list, as least as a honorable mention. Though to be fair I can see why they were left off, as w/ Hogan the champ and as popular as he was, they were never going to be placed ahead of him.

Posted By: kid (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:19 AM

 
 
Rude didn't win the belt, although, he probably should've taken it from Warrior when Warrior's reign began to falter. Rude probably would've ended up WCW Champion had he not injured himself in that match with Sting.

Posted By: Guest#1269 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:26 AM

 
 
Good list, but I can't believe you didn't include Rick Rude!

Posted By: Onjohns (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:33 AM

 
 
Drop Luger, as he did at least win the WCW title, and add Rick Rude...
Luger while a marketing machine, did little to raise the business for the WWF. However Rude was SUCH a heat magnet that just thinking about him holding the top prize makes me gleeful. Him and Jake the Snake or him feuding with Steamboat, or Savage... or Piper. Damn I hate Hogan for ruining that time period for me... Perfect, Dibiase, and Rude on top... How great would that have been?


Posted By: Deadpoetic (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:46 AM

 
 
what about ricky the dragon steamboat? possibly the best champion in nwa/wcw (besides flair), and he doesn't get a mention here? that's a another one mcmahon messed up on

Posted By: bigthaus55 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:48 AM

 
 
paul roma?
jumping jim brunzell?

but seriously, what about farooq or dynamite kid? i would have loved to see dynamite v/s steamboat at WM3. Would have stolen the show


Posted By: holoycowcub (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:52 AM

 
 
Lex Luger doesn't belong anywhere on this list. Otherwise, great job.

Posted By: Highscore Kid (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:56 AM

 
 
Where is Ricky Steamboat? He should be number one - period.

Posted By: Grrr (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:02 AM

 
 
My top 10

1 Dibiase
2 Mr Perfect
3 Roddy Piper
4 Rick Rude
5 Ricky Steamboat
6 Owen Hart
7 British Bulldog
8 Paul Orndoff
9 Brian Pillman
10 Razor Ramon


Posted By: Guest#3777 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:06 AM

 
 
Owen was a great wrestler but him as WWE champion made no sence, In the fans eyes It wouldnt have been credible, but perhaps in this day and age it may have worked but not in the 90's.... plus i want to know one thing is it true according 2 bret hart if warrior wasnt fired in 92 he would have faced him at the royal rumble instead of razor ramon is that true does anyone know?

Posted By: ChrisA (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:08 AM

 
 
I should be on the list.

Posted By: Paul Roma (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:20 AM

 
 
Great list but I think Rick Rude, Dynamite Kid, and Brian Pillman should at least be mentioned.

5.Scott Hall
4.Mr. Perfect
3.Snuka
2.DiBiase
1.Piper


Posted By: Guest#4563 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:25 AM

 
 
I want to echo the fans who say Rick Rude should be on the list. Also, I always hated piper, but I'll give the devil his due.

Just so I'm not mr. negative, I will compliment you in that I'm happy you showed some love to Jake Roberts, Owen Hart, Ted Dibiase, The British Bulldog, and Mr. Perfect. All of those men are deserving. The rest are...eh.


Posted By: Michael (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:39 AM

 
 
In addition to the ones everyone brings up, you mentioned Vader and Jarrett and I deem this column awesome for their inclusions in an already great list.

Posted By: Guest#4851 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:56 AM

 
 
Rick Rude had to be an oversight, right? I thought for sure he'd be top #3, but he didn't even get an honorable mention?? Please tell me you just forgot about!!!

Posted By: Greendale (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:10 AM

 
 
Is it just me or is ironic that the WWE's tendency to not rotate the title prior to the 90's dramatically benefited people on your last 2 lists and hurt everyone on this list.

The 15 people on your list all had earned their shots and some of them would have had much greater legacies such as Piper and Perfect.

In addition to your list Rude should have had his chance and is dramatically missing from your list. Don Morracco and Jessie Ventura are also characters that would have had interesting runs.

As a side note other than possibly Benoit is there a top 10 most regrettable world champion list. Or do you feel the company should be proud of who they have chosen to wear the straps.


Posted By: Myself (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:13 AM

 
 
I think it is ridiculous to differentiate between the World Heavyweight and WWE Championship titles. Anyone who does, including the author of this article, is just trying to show off their nerd knowledge of wrestling.

There are three world titles because there are three brands. I can see the point that the ECW belt is substandard, however, given the crop of wrestlers that have held the big two belts, it is clear the WWE puts equal weight on those two titles. The only reason there are two belts is so that each show has a world champion, and with all the switching of the belts between the shows, it gets pretty ridiculous to keep up. Every fan I know puts it like this: Raw Champ and Smackdown Champ.

If the WWE title is more prestigious, why does the World Heavyweight title close just as many PPVs. Yes, I know the main event does not have to be last, but when the WWE belt is being defended fourth from the last and you are arguing that it is the lone big belt.

Stop acting like one title is more prestigious and stop being a jerk to people that confuse a WWE title with a World Heavyweight Title.

Arrogant, nitpicky point just to pretend you are above the average fan...


Posted By: Guest#3080 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:15 AM

 
 
What about the BEAST FROM THE EAST!? The best big man the business has ever seen. BAM BAM BIGELOW!!!

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:28 AM

 
 
I think the main reason Snuka never got the title was he mostly a babyface minority. If you played the evil foreigner heel it was slightly possible (Iron Shiek, Yokozuna) but for babyfaces, before The Rock, it was all white.

Posted By: Bob (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:29 AM

 
 
Owen was a great wrestler but him as WWE champion made no sence, In the fans eyes It wouldnt have been credible, but perhaps in this day and age it may have worked but not in the 90's.... plus i want to know one thing is it true according 2 bret hart if warrior wasnt fired in 92 he would have faced him at the royal rumble instead of razor ramon is that true does anyone know?

Posted By: ChrisA (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 01:08 AM

I think I've heard that one of the plans for the Summerslam 92 match of Warrior vs. Savage was to have Warrior turn heel but he vetoed it or something. So, if that would have happened then there's is a chance that that's true


Posted By: catfishhedberg (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:45 AM

 
 
Eventually he joined WCW to rekindle his feud with Hulk Hogan but failed to capture the belt from him.



Piper beat Hogan clean in a steel cage match during his run in WCW, but never rewarded the belt. Does any one know why? It was at a pay for view during the height of the NWO take over. In fact if I remember right it was Piper who outed Bishoff as the man behind NWO. Any way I just found it odd as I assumed the match was indeed for the title.


Posted By: mojo-x (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:01 AM

 
 
I agree with everything but JJ. If anything TNA proves why JJ should never main event. He is mid-card at best and WWF knew that.

Posted By: iomis (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:18 AM

 
 
What is the point of having four honorable mentions? Why not just make it a top 14 list?

And not to beat a dead horse, but the separation of the two titles is ridiculous, both in this list and in reality. The titles are clearly of equal value and may as well share a common lineage.

Since you include kayfabe in your rankings, the belts should be considered equal since in storyline terms, they are equal.


Posted By: Gog (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:45 AM

 
 
Luger had a world title in WCW, Rick Rude belongs on the list

Posted By: better than you (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:46 AM

 
 
Excuse me, I was one wrestler off. It should be a top 15 instead of a top 10 if you are going to have that many "honorable mentions."

You make decent points in the column, but between the honorable mentions and the odd discriminating rules, I probably won't click again.


Posted By: Gog (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:52 AM

 
 
Title should be The Top Ten WWE Wrestlers Never to Be WWE Champion.

And in any case, where the hell is Ricky Steamboat?


Posted By: poffo316 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 04:47 AM

 
 
I like Myself's "Most Regrettable Champs" suggestion! Might be hard to distinguish from the "Worst" champs list, but you can see how a situation like that with Benoit makes the difference. Warrior might be on there too, as he didn't carry the torch that was passed as was hoped, or Diesel, who somehow equated to bad business.

Posted By: Sam! (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:03 AM

 
 
Luger and Razor over Bulldog? No.

Posted By: KX (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:10 AM

 
 
I think Junkyard Dog was a glaring omission from your list. JYD was the no.2 babyface behind Hogan when the WWF was really hot in the 80's.

Rick Rude should also be on the list as others have noted.

I'd remove Luger and Davey Boy from the list and move Owen and Jake the Snake down the list. JYD, Mr Perfect, and Rick Rude would all be in my top 5 or 6.


Posted By: SpaceMountain (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:18 AM

 
 
Great column. Again. You're really hitting the consistency with these early columns, hope you can maintain the momentum, particularly when you begin to move off WWF/E turf!

Echoing the sentiments of a lot of my fellow readers here - the most glaring omission is Rick Rude.

Another in a seemingly never ending line of Upper Midcarders kept down by the Hogan machine in the Late 80s/Early 90s.

Rude deserves his place for giving The Warrior three of his top 5 matches (no mean feat), startling charisma and a neat understanding of psychology.

Your Top 3 is bang on the money though in terms of order. I'd probably put Perfect third personally but I can understand your logic... erm... perfectly.

I take it that the typo in your response to the proofreading comment was deliberate: "I think in hindsight I would probably bump Rogers up a notch or too."

Made me laugh!


Posted By: Bored Weegie (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 06:27 AM

 
 
It only occurred to me when you mentioned him in passing when talking about jake, but where is rick rude on this list?

Posted By: DaJ (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 06:32 AM

 
 
Luger got another chance with Yoko at WMIX. Perferct screwed him.

Posted By: T-Mac (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 07:41 AM

 
 
I added plenty to elevate the WWF. Don't you remember the Lex Express!!! I travelled the country and slammed Yokozuna!! I certainly belong on this list.

Posted By: Lex Luger (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 08:02 AM

 
 
I'll never understand how Ted DiBiase never won the WWE title. That makes no sense to me given how over he was as a heel in his heyday.

Posted By: Marcus (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 08:02 AM

 
 
I know this is going to sound rather odd, but why not the Junkyard Dog? I know he wasn't that good, but you have to admit, he was over. He could've at least worked as a transitional champion.

Posted By: ZeroVX (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:05 AM

 
 
Or an even better choice would be one of the really old-school heels, like Jesse Ventura, or Freddie Blassie. Those guys at least deserve an Honorable Mention.

Posted By: ZeroVX (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:08 AM

 
 
Piper as number is dead on. I disagree with Luger, Vader and Jarrett since both had world titles in WCW, so its not like they got overlooked elsewhere. I do understand the WWF portion, but they did accomplish things elsewhere. If we are going with other titles not counting, Steamboat should be in Jake's spot. Its a pretty solid list compared to your rather crappy worst champion list.

Posted By: AFan (Registered)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:21 AM

 
 
Boss Man deserves some love ... not so much for his horrible run in the 'Attitude' era but around 1990 he was a great worker for his size and perpetually over.

Posted By: Nick (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:30 AM

 
 
dude, fantastic list again, however one glaring omittance...where is ricky steamboat? we all know what an off-the-chart match he had with the macho man for the ic belt at wm3, and that pretty much solidified him as a main eventer. and he always had the crowd behind him. his time to be champion was there for the taking. he would have been an excellent face champ.

Posted By: Double C (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:33 AM

 
 
Owen for me at the time even during his 1994 main event run never seemed like main event material. He looked like a midcarder and didn't scream 'top' star.

Mr Perfect, Rude, Dibiase, Piper all had those qualities where you could buy them as geniune champions becuase of their look and persona's.

I'm sure Owen if still alive would of been rewarded 'Benoit' style for hardwork and dedication over the years... but his death glosses over the fact he never seemed like main event material no matter how good of a wrestler he was.

1) Dibiase - just seemed like the ultimate heel champ to me
2) Perfect - same mold as Dibiase
3) Piper - Hated people would of bought it big time and paid through the nose to see him lose it.
4) Rude - Ozzes arrogance and class
5) Jake Roberts - From a psychology stand point he could of made himself either the most loved or hated champion ever if he wanted to.


Posted By: Andrew Barbarash (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:50 AM

 
 
I heard somewhere Austin refused to work with Owen in the main event because of the botched pile driver

Posted By: jayzhoughton (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:57 AM

 
 
Vader desevred to get a run in 1996, he was pretty hot when he came in & should of got Sids run because he was simply a better big man then him.

Rude is one of the best heels of all time & would of made a great champion imo, a damn good wrestler right there.

Gotta have Steamboat in there aswell.


Posted By: jbardo (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:29 AM

 
 
I agree that we look back on Owen Hart's run with rose colored glasses due to his death. With the exception of his feud with his brother, I don't believe he was seen as a main-event threat by the fans (and that includes his run knocking out Shawn Michaels).

I agree that Rick Rude should have made the list, and, given we have the freedom of 20/20 hindsight, Ken Shamrock should have DEFINITELY made the list. He had enoguh charisma to get by and credibility out the wazoo to make up for any "lack of size". Most importantly, we could play the "What If?" of how PPV as a whole would have shifted if a Shamrock run would have inspired a lot of athletes that ended up going to UFC to go to WWE (Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, and Quinton Jackson immediately pop to mind as guys that would have been HUGE in a WWF ring... heck, I hold out hope that Ortiz does eventually do a TNA run when he's done with MMA...).


Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:33 AM

 
 
Snuka should be #1 by a mile.

Posted By: Eric (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:36 AM

 
 
Great column, sir....a wonderful addition to the 411 Wrestling site!

I do agree with the majority, however, that Rick Rude needed to be on the list. His heat meter was off the charts & would've made for a hell of a program with Hogan or Warrior (the latter was proven during their matches over the IC belt).

Other than that, no qualms...keep up the excellent work!


Posted By: mister420 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:48 AM

 
 
Personally I would have had Bad News Brown on the list. (Mostly because the Stone Cold character borrows a hell of a lot from it and I always like his fighting style in the ring.)

vince mcmahon promised bad news brown that he would be the first black wwe champion but vince couldn't keep up with his promise and bad news brown left the wwe


Posted By: Guest#9911 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:50 AM

 
 
Good list as your top 3 are my top 3

Posted By: The Rev (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:52 AM

 
 
There is a world of difference between the World title and the WWE title and guest#3080 is a moronic cretin of the highest order.

The World title has only existed in one era, the WWE Title spanned the post-NWA days, the WWWF, Hulkamania, the New Generation, Attitude and the brand split era, when writing an article about championships, not differentiating between them would be asinine.


Posted By: BrunoX (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM

 
 
Spot on with the #1 choice...though there could be a strong argument for Dibiase.

Piper hit the nail on the head with his statement...anyone in the business of crafting good vs. evil type of fiction of any kind, including in the wrestling game, knows that a hero is only ever as great as his villain...so often times the villain has to be greater. Ricky Steamboat and Dusty Rhodes wouldn't be quite so heroic in victory in their heydays without a hated Ric Flair to play off of. In the more modern era, Stone Cold Steve Austin needed guys like the Rock and Triple H and the Undertaker to fuel his own run at the top (perhaps not as much, but still). And even as early as last year, the sheer hate that Chris Jericho generated from the crowds were the backbone of his rivalry with Shawn Michaels.

The fact of the matter, to put it simply, is that you love somebody more when they go against someone you hate. Roddy Piper could make you hate his guts. At WILL. It was only Hogan's insecurity that kept the belt off Piper (and a handful of others in the 80s) because it damn sure wasn't his ability. And Roddy winning the title would've honestly been a license for McMahon to print money on the rematch. It's short sighted and actually rather shameful on the part of WWF that he didn't.


Posted By: BJC (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:58 AM

 
 
Not that I think he deserves to be on the lst, but I am surprised Dusty Rhodes is not on the list.

Posted By: Quimby (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:00 AM

 
 
Steamboat and Pillman both deserved to hold the belt, and Goldust was so over as a heel in 96 he could have carried it. I would also give consideration to Jesse Ventura and Big John Studd.

Posted By: Dragon (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:34 AM

 
 
Good stuff John -

Lists are great for feedback and they are easy hits for any site but you are really putting the energy and extra effort into the work at hand. I applaud that!

I like the list. Snuka wouldn't have been on my list because he just spoke so poorly, you knew that he wasn't going to be a champion then. I would have most likely put Rude somewhere on the list but he worked in a time period that the WWF didn't really like heels getting cheered, so him with the strap would have been very dangerous.

As far as Santana, JYD or even Steamboat consideration, I just don't know. Steamboat would have had a possibility if you didn't have colorful megapower house faces like Hogan, Savage and Warrior. Steamboat was a simple, fairly bland worker who looked silly when the WWF tried to "Dragon" his image.

JYD wasn't really a headliner and Santana appealed much to the same base as Rey Rey now. Rey Rey is slotted nicely at the moment and I was very opposed to his World Title because his moveset and power looks so unbelievable for a world champ.

Great column! Solid format! Thanks!


Posted By: thegunisgood2009 (Registered)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:42 AM

 
 
I buy Piper at Number One, although I'd put DiBiase at the top spot, but Lex Luger being in the Top 10, or even an honorable mention is a disgrace to anyone else on the list, or anyone to have ever competed for the WWF/WWE that hasn't held the WWE Title. Horrible idea to include Luger.

Posted By: Trent (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:49 AM

 
 
Piper is definately #1!!
Bam Bam and Rick Rude are definately in there too. I also wish Finlay and Regal got some world title love, but I think their time is over, sadly.


Posted By: FUZEY (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:50 AM

 
 
Benoit never held the WWE title.

Posted By: Bimmy (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:51 AM

 
 
I'm okay with Rick Rude not on the list. He was a main event player in his career, but I think he was way more over as a heel in WCW in the early 90's then he was during his previous WWF run as an active wrestler. WCW Champion, definitely. WWF Champion, not so much.

Posted By: epic50 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:52 AM

 
 
I think in a pure kayfabe sense, Luger's inclusion makes perfect sense. There has probably never been more build for a title challenger than that of Luger heading into SS93 without said challenger winning the title.

And if you DQ Luger for winning the WCW title (which is not the topic - the topic regards the WWF/E Title only), then you DQ Hennig as well.

Great list. I would have had Piper-DiBiase 1-2 also, bumping up Hennig and Razor a little higher.


Posted By: HBK's Smile (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:56 AM

 
 
My personal Top 10 here.

Honorable Mentions: Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka, Big John Studd, Big Bossman, King Kong Bundy, Jeff Jarrett, Golddust, Tito Santana, Paul Orndorff, and Greg Valentine.

10) Razor Ramon
9) "Ravishing" Rick Rude
8) Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat
7) Christian
6) "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
5) Vader
4) Owen Hart
3) Jake "The Snake" Roberts
2) Mr. Perfect
1) "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase


Posted By: Trent (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 11:58 AM

 
 
One thing about Debiase that goes unmentioned..before it was turned into the IC championship by Pat Patterson Debiase held the North American Championship in his first go round in the WWWF as face.to the best of my knowledge he was also the ONLY North American champion in the WWWF..they always leave that out

Posted By: The Legend (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:15 PM

 
 
Add my voice to the echo regarding Rick Rude, although I think Rude suffered from the same problem as most of the guys on this list, wrestling in the Hogan era.

I want to throw one other name for consideration that I hadn't seen mentioned, Jerry "The King" Lawler. Obviously the guy is a Memphis legend and dominated USWA.

During his initial run he feuded with Bret Hart, who had already achieved Main Event status. The King fairly quickly transitioned to the announce booth and part-time wrestler/comedy relief. It has always seemed odd to me that he has gone his entire WWF/E tenure without a title run of any kind at any level.


Posted By: BDC (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:15 PM

 
 
I think your list is accurate but I definitely would have included the Honky Tonk Man. While his techinal skills left a lot to be desired, his charisma, arrogance, and cowardice made him one of the most hated wrestlers and biggest draws during the late 1980s, specifically 1987-1988. In fact, he was the most hated wrestler in the WWF for a while, only eventually rivaled by Ted Dibiase. I remember there were plans to have him feud with Hulk Hogan in a series of title for tile matches after Honky called out Hulk at the 1987 Survivor Series, but for whatever reason that fell through. Imagine the heat he would have generated holding both titles.

Posted By: Guest (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM

 
 
Magnificent Muraco!!!

Posted By: BOFF (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:28 PM

 
 
Good list, but I would have put Rick Rude in there somewhere, probably in place of Roberts, who I never really saw as a main eventer. I know Rude had been considered as a possible transitional champ in '91, but the Evil Sgt. Slaughter idea took over and they used him instead.

Posted By: Blanky (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:29 PM

 
 
No Rude or Steamboat, but you have Snuka and Owen Hart? Epic Fail!

Posted By: mogamer (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:30 PM

 
 
I agree with the fact that Rick Rude should have been on the list. He was the primary challenger during the Ultimate Warrior's run with the strap, headlining against him on numerous occasions and coming the closest at that time of all the heels in the circa-1990 locker room to taking the chamionship.

Posted By: Devin (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:35 PM

 
 
Swap Luger out for Steamboat and you have a top-notch list, bucko.

Posted By: Dude (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:50 PM

 
 
Chyna

Posted By: Jake Fury (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 12:55 PM

 
 
How in the heck is Arn Anderson not on this list?

Posted By: Brian (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:13 PM

 
 
I said it last week and I'll say it again, really really great column. Please keep 'em coming!

Maybe some tag team top tens?


Posted By: guest (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:29 PM

 
 
Might i suggest a top ten wrestlers to thankfully never touch a championship in the WWE. Take Gene Snitsky and The Boogeyman. You're already 1/5 there. You do the rest of the work.

Posted By: the dude (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:30 PM

 
 
own hart is the most over rated "under rated" wrestler. he was never a serious threat to anyone's title and he was never percieved as a main event wrestler. who cares if he's dead or was a great ribber, the truth is,that he just didn't have it. to be quite honest, it's like saying chavo should be world champion.
and any of the big heels when hogan was on his original monster title run back in the day would have drawn big money if they defeated hogan. especially wrestlemania 2 would have been great if it were orndorff or bundy or even studd hogan defeated to regain his title.
but other names like rude or even muraco or volkoff would have made fine champions.


Posted By: Guest#8164 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:30 PM

 
 
The top 10

10. Bam Bam Bigelow
9. Razor Ramon
8. Paul Orndorff
7. Ted DiBiase
6. Rowdy Roddy Piper
5. Lex Luger
4. Curt Hennig
3. Owen Hart
2. Vader
1. Ravishing Rick Rude


Posted By: The Ghost (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 01:42 PM

 
 
This is a great column. Makes you think. Remember that back in the day, managers could also be employed when wrestlers couldn't give interviews. I agree on Rude. Paul Orndorff was a friggin stud!! If I could mention anyone else, it might be Randy's father, Cowboy Bob Orton. Great on the mic and drew major heel heat because he had Iron Mike Sharpe disease. He wore a cast for 3 years and bring back the superplex! How about a non eye candy manager's list?

Posted By: Old School (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:10 PM

 
 
this list is spot on my friend

Posted By: Guest#7732 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:11 PM

 
 
Luger at 5 is a bit high.

No Steamboat?

And Mr. Superfly was HUGELY over in the early and mid 80's rumor has it if not for his drug use he was due a title run....so he HAS to be top 5

Owne was a great worker and he can be debated about getting a run..frankly when he was contesting the world title against Bret, the hitman had just won it...not sure how that would have worked. Before that he was a mid carder and after that...well Montreal happened and he ended up fueding with DX..I guess that was his moment...but after all that went on with his family, Vince and the WWE at that time, it would have been very un-vince like to give him the title.

1 - Million Dollar Man
2 - Piper
3 - Perfect
4 - Snuka
5 - Owen


Posted By: Tony (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:21 PM

 
 
Bruiser Brody
Stan Hansen
Dick Murdoch
Rick Rude
Steve Williams
Terry Gordy


Posted By: DocSarpolis (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:29 PM

 
 
Orndorff and Hennig need to be higher. I can even justify Lex on the list due to what Vince had liked in a champ to that point, but not ahead of those two.

Posted By: Guest#2620 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 02:42 PM

 
 
Chris Benoit - Never held the WWE Championship

Posted By: Guest#9271 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:14 PM

 
 
own hart is the most over rated "under rated" wrestler. he was never a serious threat to anyone's title and he was never percieved as a main event wrestler. who cares if he's dead or was a great ribber, the truth is,that he just didn't have it. to be quite honest, it's like saying chavo should be world champion.
and any of the big heels when hogan was on his original monster title run back in the day would have drawn big money if they defeated hogan. especially wrestlemania 2 would have been great if it were orndorff or bundy or even studd hogan defeated to regain his title.
but other names like rude or even muraco or volkoff would have made fine champions.

Posted By: Guest#8164 (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 01:30 PM

Owen was very good at drawing heat, the HBK fans hated him after the kick to the head, and the Bret fans hated him until the reunited in 1997. Plus whats up with the Chavo hate? Chavo is just as good as Eddie was in the ring, Eddie may have had more charisma, but Chavo certainly had charisma too. Just because McMahon doesnt have a problem jobbing him out to everyone under the sun(Hornswaggle) doesnt mean he isnt good or isnt worthy to be champion. That comment about Chavo makes you sound like a "WWE Sheep", you take what they show you as Fact. Form your own opinion for once.


Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:45 PM

 
 
No Funks? No Race? No Steamboat? But Luger makes the list? ***sighs and shakes head****

Posted By: Brad K. (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 03:57 PM

 
 
ricky steamboat, as great as he is and was, has no place on this list. you people have to remember that steamboat's run in the wwf doesn't even hold a candle to his more infamous run in the nwa. yes, he had a great match with savage. does that warrant him a wwf title run? no. i would be led to believe that the men on this list are here not only based on popularity, but they all have something in common: they were all given wwf title shots. they were all at one time or another, a legitamate threat to the wwf title and were involved in championship matches. and yes, that isn't his fault. hogan was THE man then. and once a possible wwf title feud with savage could have surfaced in 88, savage was turned face. but i digress. aside from the wrestlemania 4 tournament, steamboat was never put into a wwf title situation. steamboat's 80s run in the wwf was short and sweet, therefore never looked upon as anything meaningful, save for the savage match and maybe his feud with jake the snake. and don't even get me started on his 91 comeback, as he was a glorified cartoon character. steamboat, just because he was an awesome wrestler, doesn't mean he should have won the wwf title as at that point in his career, he was just your midcard face who could work. so steamboat, on this list, makes no reasonable sense.

and whoever mentioned that arn anderson should have been on the list...slap yourself.

this list is to a t. great work, peters.


Posted By: sour grapes (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 04:04 PM

 
 
That's a tough list to put together. You have guys who should qualify for the list. Or at least get an honorable mention. Grapplers like: Big John Studd, Rick Rude, JYD, Terry Funk, Chief Jay Strongbow, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat and Harley Race.

Posted By: Wojcik (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 04:08 PM

 
 
Wow, great list and a great read. I know it's subjective which a few people that comment on here should take into consideration. I'm interested to hear why you left Rude off the list though, maybe because he was rarely in the title picture? Maybe beating The Warrior after WM6 was his chance. Would I have booked Rude over Slaughter?

As much as I hate Luger, I have to agree on his position. The fact was that he was over and was seemingly being lined up for a run at the strap. Is he a better worker than Owen? Of course not, was he a more likely WWE/WWF champion? I hate myself for saying it but unfortunately yes.

Good job.


Posted By: Littlenaitch (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 04:16 PM

 
 
No complaints here. Honky Tonk Man should have gotten an honorable mention but probably not top 10. I literally hated that guy when I was a kid, yet I loved the song. Yeah I don't get it either.

Posted By: Burnout (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 04:47 PM

 
 
I feel Bulldog should be far closer to the top, unlike a number of other members of the top ten he was over, had a series of title shots, was a long term maineventer and was a damn good wrestler.

Posted By: RM (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:13 PM

 
 
Gotta say, wish Hennig was up higher.

Posted By: Champzilla (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:24 PM

 
 
Lex Luger? Really? He is, was and always will be straight garbage. Horrible on the mic, horrible in the ring, horrible person. Fuck him.

Posted By: Matt (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:26 PM

 
 
"While it's true that both belts are counted as World Titles, and both belts have been featured in main events, the promotion is World Wrestling Entertainment, not World Championship Wrestling, so I feel that the WWE Title is the promotion's top belt."

Personally I feel that whichever belt is on RAW is the main belt of the company, as it's on the flagship brand and generally will have the bigger stars fighting for it. Still, it's pretty subjective I feel.

As for the list, good stuff, but as others have said, I'd bump off Luger for the heat magnet that was Rude.

Also, I'd at least give an honorable mention to guys like Booker T and Benoit, who won the World Title but not the WWE title and had lengthy tenures in the WWE.


Posted By: Vordeo (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 05:35 PM

 
 
I'm just throwing out a few that haven't been mentioned yet, but are somewhat worth mentioning.

King Kong Bundy - Headlined a Wrestlemania title bout against Hogan at WM II. Maybe a man who squashed midgets shouldn't be taken seriously though....

Jerry "The King" Lawler - Had a big feud with Bret Hart. A legend, so why not? It would've worked better than Bob Backlund. His body of work in the WWE wasn't the greatest, but it could've been worse...much worse.

Earthquake - Had a memorable feud against Hogan. While I'm on the topic of Hogan challengers, how about...

Zeus - Nah just kiddin'!!!

Essentially anybody in the 60's and 70's who was near or at the top of the card and never won the WWWF championship, especially since Bruno held the title for such long periods of time.

Btw, you forgot a picture of Stone Cold's "Smokin' Skull" belt. Maybe it doesn't really count, but it would've just been cool to see a picture of it again.


Posted By: Andis (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 07:01 PM

 
 
Snuka was most definitely a main event wrestler back in '82 and '83, even into '84. His popularity rivaled that of Backlund's in '83.

Posted By: Guest#3876 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 07:04 PM

 
 
Jarrett was never popular, he only got a reaction in the WWF because Debra and her tits escorted him to ringside for two years. He's never drawn and never will. Much like Triple H, Jarrett has hogged the main event scene in TNA, but people never bought tickets to see him. Austin made the right choice in not wanting a feud with him. Jarrett was midcard talent at best.

Posted By: MBD (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 07:28 PM

 
 
The comparison to chavo is that although he may be as compentent in the ring as Eddie was, he is just a less charismatic version. Just how Owen was a god help us more boring version of Bret.

I do however regret. That I forgot to mention jyd.


Posted By: Guest#0062 (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 09:42 PM

 
 
I would've gone Rude over Jarrett but six in one hand, half-dozen in the other. I like the idea of you not putting Ricky in as world champ, it wasn't realistic. You were thinking realistically, and that is what I like. No way could Ricky be champ in the Hogan-eras WWF. You counted for guys who had legitimate shots, not guys who we wanted to win. Your top five were right on the head. Oh yeah, thanks for the HBK-Bulldog match. I have been looking for that for like months.

Posted By: Sully (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:09 PM

 
 
Razor Ramon should be higher, he was great and where is Bam Bam and Ken Shamrock ??

It seems that you only chose people from the 80s and early 90s


Posted By: nWo fan (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:45 PM

 
 
You fail EPICALLY for RAVISHING RICK RUDE NOT Being on your list !

Posted By: Epic Fail For Peters Again ! (Guest)  on July 27, 2009 at 10:56 PM

 
 
Sad thing is, everyone on that top ten list is better than everyone who has been champion in the last 7 years, possibly with the exception of Jericho.

Posted By: Guest#8992 (Guest)  on July 28, 2009 at 12:14 AM

 
 
I'd put Jarrett higher up. The heat he was getting around Summerslam 1999 was off the hook. Moreso than HHH at the time. Apparently, Austin hated him or something and thus refused to work with him. Terry Funk perhaps, in the 80s.
DiBiase is No.1 for me. Him and Perfect were my favourite heels back in the day. And both could get it done in the ring.

"The World's Strongest Man" Dino Bravo - nah, only kidding.


Posted By: Lo-Down (Guest)  on July 28, 2009 at 08:12 AM

 
 
What? No Tazz? No JustinCredible? This list needs to be redone!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: WHAT? (Guest)  on July 28, 2009 at 10:07 AM

 
 
great list. though i feel compelled to point out that both curt hennig and lex luger were world champs in other companies. while you can dispute hennig's reign as same level, you can't dispute luger's. also luger being on a list of best wrestlers. are you nuts. he could occasionally hold his own in the ring, but that happened about as often as a blue moon.

Posted By: nick (Guest)  on July 28, 2009 at 03:03 PM

 
 
No Ravishing Rick Rude? Oh well, I guess they cannot all be winners. Or in this case none of them can be.
I believe that had Owen Hart not been murdered by Vince McMahon that he would have eventually obtained the World Heavyweight Championship, but most likely not the prestigious WWE Heavyweight Title. He would have then gone on to surpass in popularity the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin and even Pretty Paul Roma.
Another glaring omission from this list was The Man Called Sting. Or am I mistaken, did he hold the title at some point that no one is aware of?


Posted By: Squid Vicious (Registered)  on July 28, 2009 at 03:03 PM

 
 
What About Steamboat?

Posted By: Refinnap (Guest)  on July 28, 2009 at 06:42 PM

 
 
As far as I am aware, Sting never had a career in the WWE, so therefore he doesn't even qualify for this list. Peters was only counting wrestlers careers in the WWE. I'm sure though that Sting would be at or near the top of wrestlers to have never wrestled in the WWE.

Posted By: Andis (Guest)  on July 29, 2009 at 01:24 AM

 
 
What About Steamboat?

Posted By: Refinnap (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 06:42 PM

These people are NOT idiots! This is our audience! These are the people that watch TECH WAR!


Posted By: William Shatner (Guest)  on July 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM

 
 
furthermore, here's one guy you've missed; HARLEY FUCKING RACE!!!

Posted By: DaJ (Guest)  on July 29, 2009 at 01:21 PM

 
 
I honestly believe that Goldust could've been a good short-term champion during the Attitude Era. After all, we had Taker, Mankind, and even Kane be champion, why not Goldy?

How about Andre the Giant as champion?


Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest)  on July 29, 2009 at 09:25 PM

 
 
luger and orndorff should not be on the list and razor should be ahead of roberts

Posted By: poison (Guest)  on August 01, 2009 at 03:33 PM

 


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