For The Record 8.16.09: Hulk Hogan As a Worker
Posted by Kristopher Rodriguez on 08.16.2009
Was the Hulkster a good worker?
Despite his success, Hulk Hogan will always have a booing section. Millions of fans believe the Hulkster held down other wrestlers. I don't know whether that's true or not. I will say one thing though. Vince McMahon had the most at stake when Hulkamania was running wild. If Hogan made money, McMahon made money. For all we know, McMahon protected Hogan more than Hogan protected Hogan.
The Hulkster was WWE's biggest draw in the 1980s. Sure it would have been nice to push Rowdy Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, or Mr. Perfect a little more. But we have to admit one thing. They weren't proven draws. Money talks, and it's the only language that matters to McMahon.
But Hogan's ego and alleged backstage stroke was not the only reason "smart" fans criticized him. They also feel his workrate was subpar. Hogan was no Bret Hart or Kurt Angle in the ring. He hardly ever climbed the top ropes like the Rockers. He also wasn't one to take harsh bumps like Mick Foley. However, the crowd still ate out of the palm of his hands. And in the world of pro wrestling, that's all that matters.
Hogan was both blessed and lucky. First of all, he had the look. Hogan was a big, strong wrestler with passable mike skills. Second, he was a semi-celebrity before he even entered WWE. It's not like wrestling fans were totally unfamiliar with him when he defeated the Iron Sheik in 1984. Third, Hogan was given very distinctive ring attire which was cool to younger fans. Sometimes the right attire can evolve a dull wrestler into a superstar (just ask Bret Hart). Fourth, Hogan benefitted from WWE's cartoonish stage. Hogan was a Herculian figure who slayed giants, beat up evil kings, and smacked down a million dollar tycoon. In the wrestling era of good and evil, Herculian heroes were invaluable.
Hogan and McMahon were smart. They let the other wrestlers be just that… wrestlers. They made Hulk Hogan the mythological super hero. And Hogan pulled it off perfectly.
Hogan was great at looking desperate during beatdowns. He looked depleted, like he was fighting a giant piece of kryptonite. But he was also great at engaging the crowd. The fans knew that they were the driving forces to Hogan victories. Their rally cries invigorated the Hulkster. And when he had taken enough punishment, he shook his head. He didn't quite get mad like The Incredible Hulk, but he hulked up nonetheless. He became the invincible, irresistible force. Hogan made fans believe that it wasn't just him who slammed Andre The Giant. It was also the energy of his Hulkamaniacs.
That's engagement. The fans became participants. They weren't passive observers. Hulk Hogan invited the audience to become a part of the show. He wasn't trying to get the fans to say "look what he did." He was getting the fans to say "look what we did."
Does that make Hulk Hogan a good worker? Was he a workrate machine? Well that depends on what you mean by "worker." If worker means great technician, then no, Hogan wasn't much of a worker. He punched, kicked, bodyslammed, legdropped, and sold low impact wrestling moves. Great technicians were guys like Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Dean Malenko, Mr. Perfect, Ricky Steamboat, and Ric Flair. But if we take "worker" to mean working the fans, it's hard to argue that Hogan was a bad worker. Few wrestlers have ever worked the fans like Hulk Hogan.
Therefore, what might be needed is a clarification of language. I'm not going to try and define exactly what worker or workrate means. To quote our President, "That's above my paygrade." However, it seems that the word "worker" should be re-examined by the IWC. Should "good worker" be synonymous with high quality technical wrestling? Or should good workers be those who can engage and excite a crowd? I don't know; you decide.
Right or wrong, the best worker (in any business) is the one who brings in the most cash.
Posted By: Guest#9661 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:54 AM
as a person, hes cool
as a wrestler, fuck off
Posted By: Guest#7529 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:58 AM
Hulk Hogan was a fantastic worker. He works matches better than anybody else. When he's in the ring he owns the ring, he controls the ring, he dominates the ring. Heel or face, it doesn't matter.
HULKAMANIA 4 LIFE!
Posted By: Volourn (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 01:02 AM
When he tried, he could actually wrestle (witness his matches in Japan). He was good whenever he broke out of his usual formula. He didn't do that often, because, well, he didn't *have* to. Yet despite working a safe style, he's still having his spine fused. Hmm...
In any case, he actually did more wrestling moves than Rey Mysterio's Nacho Libre nonsense.
Posted By: MissyNEVERWearsSocksWithShoes (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 01:34 AM
Hogan was behind two movements that changed the way we look at wrestling.
Posted By: Ant-LOX (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 01:39 AM
It depends on what someone views as work - if "work" to them means a limitless resume of technically-sound, five-star classic matches, then Hogan couldn't work worth a damn. If however, someone looks at "work" as whoever drew the most overall money in the history of the business, then the Hulkster wins by miles, without question.
By the way, watching his Japanese matches on Youtube is a real eye-opening experience for wrestling fans who have only seen the Hulkster compete in America...I certainly recommend them.
Posted By: Nick M. (Registered) on August 16, 2009 at 01:41 AM
"Right or wrong, the best worker (in any business) is the one who brings in the most cash."
That's fucking retarded. Being the best and being the most popular are two different things. The most popular worker is usually the one that brings in the most money. Look at the Carano/Cyborg fight. Cyborg was the better fighter, but people were paying to see Carano fight because she was the cover girl for MMA. Savage was a better worker in terms of workrate, Hogan was the more popular worker because of the image he cultivated. I'm not saying what he did was easy, but a lot of his shtick can be explained. He was in the right place at the right time -- an American superhero during a paranoid time when people wanted something simple to escape from reality. He had the same appeal as Arnold or Stallone. Vince's repeated attempts at remaking Hogan (Diesel, Luger, Cena) have failed because we were in different climates socially. Much like with action heroes, American didn't need a superhero to protect its values in the '90s. Why do you think Hogan became so popular again by rejecting and trashing those values with his heel turn? Cena couldn't fill the Hogan void because the '90s taught people to expect anti-heroes like Austin, regardless of how many steps back into blind xenophobia America took after 9/11. The audience still expected someone with an edge, not a bland, whitemeat babyface which is kind of what Hogan always was -- despite the muscles and the larger than life persona, he embodied the status quo for America. He was the clean-cut, white, Christian with morals.
Posted By: Guest#3781 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 01:49 AM
Quote: "Sure it would have been nice to push Rowdy Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, or Mr. Perfect a little more. But we have to admit one thing. They weren't proven draws."
I'll argue that point. All of Vince's upper card and much of the middle card were proven draw in the territories. Back then Vince didn't have to develop many wrestlers, they came with work experience and were pre-packaged.
Posted By: Guest#8808 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 02:11 AM
Hogan drew money more than anyone.... (Yes I am looking at you Austin). He was a great worker. If we were talking legit wrestling or fighting, than thats a different story. If you are talking "worker" as in pro-wrestling, than Hogan is that definition. Bret Hart? He is was the company's top guy during the darkest days of their financial history.
Posted By: Drew (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 02:41 AM
Hogan has been drawing money since the early 80's!!!
NO ONE else can match him.
Workrate, as defined by the IWC, is overrated.
Wrestling is about suspending belief and believing what you are seeing is real... Hogan did that for MILLIONS of fans throughout his career.
And when he turned heel - people really felt betrayed.
He may not have had 5 star matches, but his name was always at the top of the card.
Hands down he's the best. No one comes close.
Posted By: Guest#3833 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 03:40 AM
3781, very well said.
As for you, Kristopher Rodriguez, I think your point is hollow. You've concocted an essentially meaningless justification for praising a man who is only loved for exactly the reasons 3781 explained...in short, he was in the right place at the right time.
The alleged "skill" you describe of engaging a crowd actually involves no skill whatsoever - it's an on/off switch. Get beat up, then prompt the crowd to make noise, then act like you're Popeye and the cheering crowd is spinach. Lather, rinse, repeat. Charlie Haas could do this just as well as Hogan can, and he can WRESTLE besides. And nobody gives a damn about Charlie Haas.
Hulk Hogan is a WELL below average worker with lame, repetitive promos. If you switched Hogan and Luger in terms of when they came along and what spot they were given, they'd each have the other one's same career. And you'd be writing a nonsensical column attempting to defend Lex Luger as a "good worker."
Hell, the same is even true for Chuck Palumbo. Hogan is a lousy human being and a weak performer. If you don't believe me, go watch any one of his movies.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 05:33 AM
Anyone who says Hulk Hogan is not a good worker needs to go to the house show circuit and look at the matches Hogan had with Harley Race, Terry Funk, Randy Savage and King Kong Bundy. Hogan was actually a very good worker in the ring. Sure, he wasn't the most technical, but he could go out there. Hulk really hit his stride as a worker during the 80s, where he had most of his great matches in Madison Square Garden, Boston, Philly and Maple Leaf Gardens. His PPV matches aren't nearly as good as his house show matches are.
Posted By: Dwayne (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 05:40 AM
Hogan wasn't too bad. Hogan/Bossman, his Japanese stuff and basically anything where he broke the formula were proof he could work if he could.
Talking about Cena:
"The audience still expected someone with an edge, not a bland, whitemeat babyface which is kind of what Hogan always was -- despite the muscles and the larger than life persona"
That explains why Jeff Hardy is so over. He isn't that perfect American babyface, he's a flawed person who generates actual sympathy and passion from the fans. Cena's a modern day Sting - but he hasn't approached a character shift like Sting's shift to the brooding late 90's Sting that might add an edge to his character.
Posted By: AK (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 05:51 AM
As someone said in a previous Hogan column:
Hogan over Orton at Summerslam 2006. Defend that.
Posted By: Quinny (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 07:34 AM
It's like asking whether Arnold Schwarznegger was a good actor. Most people would say no - but his films made more money than anything Robert De Niro and Al Pacino did and those two are considered as two of the greatest actors ever. So Arnie obviously did something right.
Film critics love the De Niros and Pacinos just as wrestling critics love the HBKs and Bret Harts. But the majority of the viewing public pay to see Jim Carrey and Will Smith, just like the majority of wrestling fans pay to see the Cenas and Hogans.
Posted By: jobbers (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 08:16 AM
This has to be the most predictable article I've seen on 411 in a long time. Did anyone not know it was gonna say "Hulk Hogan = bad technical wrestler, but drew money and worked a crowd"? Bah.
Posted By: Bruno (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 08:52 AM
what a shit coloumn. you make like your going to discuss hogans workrate then hardly touch it. hardly mention his totally differant moveset in japan vs the us. you dont discuss how he evovled into a ringleader/coordinator during the nwo, his old dropkicks and enzigurs, etc
Posted By: 16s (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 09:28 AM
Agree with the comments above. Check out Hogan's work in Japan and some of his older AWA stuff. What Hogan realized (and you can catch him saying over and over again in interviews) is that he toned down what he could do to elongate his career. The guys that do the big impact and big flipping moves have shorter careers and big health problems. He could make just as much money and be just as popular with a limited moveset.
Worth your read would be In Defense Of... Hulk Hogan. You can check out Part 4 of 4 that goes over Hogan's workrate: http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/39948/
Posted By: JP Prag (Registered) on August 16, 2009 at 09:37 AM
Hogan's not a "good worker?" Ever see his match with Mutoh or the WM with Rock? He can fancy holds, his style just doesn't require it.
Posted By: Guest#4851 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Hogan gets labeled as not being able to wrestle due to his size. He doesnt match up well with a lot of guys. The truth is he is as good as a WRESTLER as Ric Flair is. Neither of them are Malenko, Hart, Benoit, Michaels, Dynamite Kid good in the ring but still solid. Hogan is a better wrestler than any one to join WWE in the last decade.
Posted By: Champ (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 11:15 AM
From the early days till about 1991 when he was athletic enough to go and gave enough of a shit , he could work a formula match and work it well. From that point on it took a small miracle to get anything decent out of him. But in his heydey, he was much better in ring than he gets credit for, you don't need to bust out eight variations of armbars, wristlocks, and shooting star presses to be a good worker. See also Cena, John.
Posted By: Martin Lawrence (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 11:44 AM
Austin drew more money than Hogan.
Posted By: MBD (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Hogan was actually a good worker, as seen from Japan. He pretty much chose to work this way in North America as he felt that this was what captivated more people here and he was right on that. For that matter Flair was hardly a technical wrestler, but he too did a lot of entertaining stuff which made people want to see him suffer...
Posted By: Guest#3295 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:09 PM
He was an awful worker, his promos are better by at least 2 dozen guys, and frankly he was LUCKY to have the success he did. The only thing Hogan did to get success on his own was take steroids. Steroids made his body big and powerful, which caught Stallone's eye for Rocky 3 giving Hogan global exposure. Vince give Hogan the name Hogan, he turned Andre heel to put him over, he gave him his bog standard "American Patriot" shit ass gimmick that always wins over Americans, he got Sheik to put him over, he lined up great heel after great heel to feed to Hogan, ALL because he had a better look in Vince's eyes than a Piper or a Muraco or a Snuka. VINCE made the choice to compete in other territories, he made the choice to start Wrestlemania, to create merchandising, to make wrestling more kid friendly.
Hogan's politics and backstage maneuvering kept him above lots of guys and on top long after Hulkamania had burned out, despite the WWE's revision of history. It was what interjected him into the already successful Outsiders angle in WCW. Is it not surprising that Hogan overstayed his welcome at the top of WWE and the company slid close to closure, AND he did the same in WCW bleeding the company dry until it could no longer continue.
Hogan is the perfect embodiment of the "American Dream". To fuck people over to the top, and cheat and scam to stay there as long as possible to become a millionaire without ever having worked for it in any real sense. This over-rated shmuck owes his entire LIFE to Vince, because Vince made an average roid monkey worker who wrestled as a limited heel and created a star. The only thing Hogan did really was turn up to collect money. One thing that unites both Flair and Hart who have had their differences is that they both became legends by earning it through their work, DESPITE the best efforts of several promoter/bookers trying to use other guys or hold them down.
Fuck Hogan, and every idiot "fan" who buys his line of shit.
Posted By: Frank (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Right or wrong, the best worker (in any business) is the one who brings in the most cash.
Posted By: Guest#9661 (Guest
so seeing as how cena out sells everyone it would be him. i can agree with that at least cena has 5 moves hogan only had 2 and one of those was a punch...... and no the backscratch dosent count
Posted By: Guest#5554 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Wrestling will never be like it was in the 80's.
Posted By: John (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Quote: "Sure it would have been nice to push Rowdy Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, or Mr. Perfect a little more. But we have to admit one thing. They weren't proven draws."
How was Piper not a proven draw? Vince built his empire as much on Piper as the company's top heel as he did with Hogan as his top face. Without Piper as a foil, Hogan might not have been as successful as he was. People forget what Piper did in the early days for Vince. Wrestlemania I was about the Hogan/Piper feud. The
Posted By: Guest#8220 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 01:08 PM
Shit worker, shit interview- but the kids loved him so he's the greatest...
PUKE!
Posted By: FUZEY (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 02:18 PM
Hulk Hogan was the driving force of both boom periods
Posted By: basicdugganomix (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 03:34 PM
Hulk Hogan in the USA didnt have to do techinical wrestling. Hell his music hits today and he would get the biggest ovation of the night. thats what pissing off HBK, HHH, and Flair. If anyone has doubts about his wrestling ability, watch his matches in Japan. Then get a fork cause you are eating some crow. Hulkamania will live forever!!!
Posted By: rick goodwin (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 04:52 PM
Hogan was a solid worker when he needed to. He didn't need to put on technically classic matches because he was so friggen over that he could wrestle a simple style. Why would Hogan try and put on 5 star classic matches when he could get the same fan reaction utilizing a simpler, less physically demanding style which benefitted him in the long run. Consider how often wrestlers in that era had to wrestle: sometimes twice a night in different cities. Hogan needed to stay healthy since the WWF puts all their chips behind the man. He's shown that he's a solid worker in Japan and wrestled Nick Bockwinkel in many long matches, which says something about Hogan that he could mesh well with Nick's style.
Posted By: Greg (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 06:53 PM
I think that there are several ways to be a good worker. Good Worker is a general category with several styles under it. For example, you can be a technical wizard such as Bret Hart or Kurt Angle. Another category would be great brawling style such as Stone Cold or Mick Foley (who also is in the crazy bumps category), u can be a high flyer such as Jeff Hardy or Rey Mysterio (neither of whom are technical masters but very talented aerial wrestlers) and there is another category of great worker, the guys that can put on memorable and entertaining matches with the way they interact with the crowd and do their signature spots. This category is for Hulk Hogan, John Cena and of course The Rock. All three are incredible "workers" not in the technical sense but in making fans care about their matches. Hogan-Rock is about 1000 times more memorable and entertaining than the HBK-Hart iron man match. I'm sorry that is the opinion of almost everyone I know. And those 2 pulled off a hell of an entertaining match without being technical or aerial masters. And to address the few morons saying Hogan was just "right place right time" that is so stupid. He is also responsible for the 2nd boom period when he made his heel turn and joined the NWO. Most people got back into wrestling because of that. WWE attitude came a year or so later but the original boom was all due to Hogan. And he wasn't playing the All American hero then. He was a totally different character. So to say he was so popular just because of Vince is retarded. And I can't believe that people still insist he was a bad worker. At his age, he put on a hell of an entertaining match with Randy Orton. Hogan could barely walk and he made that match entertaining. And I was at summerslam when he fought HBK and that match was sooooo much beter than it had any right to be and you cannot just give all that credit to HBK. Hogan played his part excellently and the crowd ate it up. Old Hogan put on much better matches than Old Flair in general. But the Hogan haters are probably the same nerds that hate on Cena all the time but don't realize how many great matches he's had also. And not just his matches with HBK and Edge. Cena's RR match with Umaga was incredible. He even got a watchable match out of Khali twice!! So think outside the box and stop being internet sheep. Yeah I appreciate a great technical Bret Hart match but I also realize there are different ways to be a great worker. Plus, its the same principle that made everyone call Matt the smart Hardy boy. Why take crazy risks when you don't have to? Hogan and Rock and Cena get huge reactions and entertaining matches without the need for high risk or higly technical moves.
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 08:42 PM
Hogan has been drawing money since the early 80's!!!
NO ONE else can match him.
Workrate, as defined by the IWC, is overrated.
Wrestling is about suspending belief and believing what you are seeing is real... Hogan did that for MILLIONS of fans throughout his career.
And when he turned heel - people really felt betrayed.
He may not have had 5 star matches, but his name was always at the top of the card.
Hands down he's the best. No one comes close.
Posted By: Guest#3833 (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 03:40 AM
Hogan may have made more money due to merchandise, but if we just talk about attendance for shows and PPV buyrates, I think Flair has him beat.
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 11:01 PM
he was adequate, and no one expected more. hennig was awesome no doubt, but never drew the money hh did
Posted By: pjl (Guest) on August 17, 2009 at 12:49 AM
Hulk Hogan's finisher sucks.
Posted By: Boom (Guest) on August 17, 2009 at 01:45 AM
To 3781, you're a fucking asshole for your "retard" comment,and things just work out the way they do when they're supposed to, which you did make a good point with though. To 9681, that's the way of this world(in business)
Posted By: Jasper (Guest) on August 17, 2009 at 08:38 PM
Hulk Hogan was the driving force of both boom periods
Posted By: basicdugganomix (Guest) on August 16, 2009 at 03:34 PM
That sure is something else, isn't it?I was a kid during the earlier one, and a young adult during the latter. Very great time(s) for wrestling!!! Amazing he basically started both
Posted By: Jasper (Guest) on August 17, 2009 at 08:44 PM
Hogan is the best babyface ever...by far. A lot of guys can do a lot of moves and have nobody care. So for me while that is important it isn't at the top. Hogan made everyone he faced look good in the time from 84-91. Except Mr. Perfect. But he had u beliving these guys were threats! Then the rest of their careers happened and u saw what a lot of them were who weren't greats. But he took the ass whippins, drew money and had the crowd.
Posted By: the get some kid (Guest) on August 20, 2009 at 09:43 PM
I think this article was right on the money Hogan wasn't very good as a technical wrestler but he really knew how to get the crowd involved in a match.
Posted By: Los Angeles Lakers (Guest) on August 22, 2009 at 01:39 PM
This hit the nail right on the head
Posted By: The Greg (Guest) on August 22, 2009 at 07:28 PM
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