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The Piledriver Report 08.19.09: Attitude Era - Even the Bad Was Good
Posted by Ronny Sarnecky on 08.19.2009



Before I begin this week's column, I would like to apologize to the loyal readers of "The Piledriver Report" due to the lack of articles during the past two weeks. My grandfather had terminal cancer, and passed away last week. I'm doing okay, and am back to write my weekly column.

Recently, many of my columns have consisted of two themes; I either sing the praises of WWE's SmackDown! program, or I wax poetic about the pro wrestling from my youth in the mid-eighties. While watching Monday Night RAW over the last several weeks, I have started to think back to the WWF's "Attitude Era."

I didn't start thinking about the "Attitude Era" because of how great RAW has been lately. Quite the contrary. RAW has been, how can I say this nicely? RAW has been awful lately. The WWE should thank their lucky stars for having SmackDown! on their schedule.



QUIT WATCHING ALREADY!

Now, I know what many of you are thinking. If you hate RAW so much, then don't watch it. However, any diehard fan knows this is an impossible task. Sure, I could stop watching the show. The Mets usually play on Monday nights (what can I say, I like to torture myself). Monday Night Football is back in less then a month, so is "Two and a Half Men" and "Big Bang Theory." There are plenty of things to distract me away from wrestling. Despite these many choices, I have to stick by RAW. Why? It's because I'm a lifer. It's because I know that even though I have to sit through "RAW is Bore," there are those few times each year when magic will happen. It's moments like the 45 minute Shawn Michaels/John Cena match, Eric Bischoff's debut, the Nitro/RAW joint show after Vince purchased WCW, or the heel turn of Chris Jericho from last year that makes all of the bullshit worth while. That's why I continue to watch. If I stopped watching, and heard about the "once in a lifetime" moment that I missed, I wouldn't forgive myself.

For me, the eighties were the best. With Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, and Randy Savage in their primes, every match seemed like a "must see" contest. However, the memories from my childhood would be topped in the late nineties by the wrestling wars between WCW, the WWF, and ECW. Man, was wrestling awesome back then. Steve Austin, the Rock, Bret Hart, DeGeneration X, the New World Order, Sting, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Sabu, Taz, Shane Douglas, Raven, Tommy Dreamer, and Cactus Jack/Mick Foley. The angles and matches came at you fast and furious. It was a great time to be a fan.

EVEN THE BAD WAS GOOD



If wrestling was so great during the "Monday Night Wars," and wrestling, particularly RAW and TNA Impact are so bad, how come I have been thinking about that time period while watching RAW lately? The reason is this, for every great Austin/Rock angle back then, there were also some horrible things that made the air as well. Remember Mae Young giving birth to a hand? How about the group Kaientai chopping off Val Venis' "member?" Don't forget Al Snow being fed his dead dog by the Big Boss Man.

Sure, we cringed at these segments. After all, this wasn't wrestling. However, the product was so hot, that these angles were barely a blip on the map, and sometimes these dumb storylines actually entertained us.

While watching the skit between Shawn Michaels and Triple H a couple of weeks ago, where Hunter was trying to convince Shawn to reform DX, I thought back to the "Attitude" days. Today, RAW is filled with juvenile DX skits, the awful John Cena promos where he gets cheap laughs from five year old kids, and "guest host" segments where Shaq gets the fans to chant "Christina" at Chris Jericho. These skits are no longer just blips. They are as Rob Van Dam would say, "the whole F'n Show!" The WWE doesn't fill RAW with much else. It's all toilet humor, five minute matches, and wrestlers being given false pushes to the point that you don't trust the WWE enough to get behind any non-main event wrestler.

Like I said, RAW in the late nineties had their share of bad skits, and juvenile behavior. However, you didn't mind sitting through it, because you knew that you would be blown away by an Austin/Mr. McMahon segment, or DeGeneration X would break new barriers like trying to invade WCW's Nitro. On the 2009 version of RAW, after you strip away the awful writing and acting, what are you left with? A main event that features some combination of the same wrestlers that you have been seeing on the show for years. How many times can I see John Cena, Triple H, Randy Orton, and Batista or the Big Show?

DEEP ROSTERS FOR WAR



There was so much depth during the "Attitude Era" for all three companies. When you blinked your eyes, another star was born. OK, the WCW's case, every new star that got "over" wouldn't be elevated. Unless your name was Bill Goldberg or Diamond Dallas Page. In the WWF, Vince seemed to distribute the wealth. Just look back during the years of 1996 until the beginning of 2001.

Despite Monday Nitro debuting on September 4th, 1995, the WCW-WWF Monday night wrestling war did not officially begin until May 6th, 1996. On that day, Scott Hall returned to WCW after an almost four year run with the WWF. He was not alone. He brought along his good friend Kevin Nash. Once WCW brought in Hulk Hogan in 1994 and started hiring many of Hogan's former friends and rivals, the WWF created a marketing campaign against World Championship Wrestling. They made a parody of these "older" wrestlers, and proclaimed the WWF as the "New Generation." Kevin Nash, in the role of "Big Daddy Cool" Diesel was the poster boy for the WWF's next generation of superstars. Now, he was with the competitors.

WCW was no longer going after the top WWF stars of the 80s. They were now going after the top stars in professional wrestling. Not only did Hall and Nash leave, but Bret Hart even flirted with the idea of going to Ted Turner's wrestling company. The WWF wasn't the only company affected by WCW's spending spree, as Extreme Championship Wrestling lost its share of wrestlers to WCW. Public Enemy, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio Jr., Psychosis, Konnan, Raven, and Stevie Richards all left the bingo hall for WCW.

Because of their mind boggling spending spree, and their stubbornness in not elevating the younger, better workers, WCW had the best undercard performers in the business. However, it's the main event that people pay to see. Throughout the Monday Night Wars, the WWE had the best main event workers in the business. With most of their past stars now in WCW, the WWE had to build their own stars. For the most part, these performers were young, and worked as a team, for the greater good. I remember reading several articles during this time period. Each article talked about the politics in WCW, where everybody in the main events were clinging on to their spots.

Whereas, in the WWF, most of their roster was littered with young, hungry wrestlers. The veterans in the WWF were smart enough to know that the more stars that move up to the main event scene, the more opponents they will be fed, the more money they will make. Of course, this attitude came after the "I lay down for no man," Shawn Michaels was forced into semi-retirement due to a back injury. It's amazing to look at today's WWE main event scene, and how it compares with WCW's main eventers in the late nineties. Both have the same old stale guys on top, and only a couple of new performers sneak in to get a small piece of the spotlight.

During the 1996-2001 run in the WWF, they featured Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, Kane, Mick Foley, the Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, The Big Show, and Mr. McMahon as their top performers. Not to mention the upper mid-card wrestlers like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Degeneration X, the Nation of Domination, Ken Shamrock, the Hart Foundation, the New Age Outlaws, the Dudleys, the Hardy Boys, Edge, and Christian, who were all promenient players in the WWF. They would all, occasionally, get a chance in the spotlight.

PLEASE RELEASE THE HANDCUFFS

The WWF, at the time, allowed their performers to show off what skills they had. Were they give scripts? Sure, but their promos weren't written out for them word for word, like many of the performers dialogue is today. It's a shame too, because today, wrestlers are just puppets reading off lines. Even some of the top stars follow the scripts today. You can see that Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho didn't during their feud last year. Same thing with Shawn and the Undertaker this year. Is it any wonder that those were the two best feuds during the past two years? Coincidence? I think not.

Sure, Chirs Jericho, the Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels are three of the best promo guys in the business over the last fifteen years. However, I have to believe that John Cena can do better then the garbage he has been spewing ever? Coincidence? I think not.

Sure, Chirs Jericho, the Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels are three of the best promo guys in the business over the last fifteen years. However, I have to believe that John Cena can do better then the garbage he has been spewing ever Monday night. Maybe if they actually let him use his own mind and voice, John Cena might surprise the WWE and the die hard fans might actually like him. Scary thought, I know.

Not to totally kill RAW, but I can't help but miss the product that they put out during the war wit WCW. Every week was a roller coaster ride of excitement. The WWE has lost that spark. During the "Monday Night Wars" Era, when RAW ended, I couldn't wait for seven days to be erased from the calendar, so I could watch next week's show. I can't tell you the last time I had that same feeling during the post-Attitude Era. Can you?


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Comments (34)

 
Why do you think the WWE care at all about the "Hardcore" Fans?
We don't make up much of their fanbase, their main targets are the 5 year old's who laugh at John Cena's jokes......


Posted By: Observer (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 08:55 PM

 
 
I love how every WWE-mark has selective memory about the "Attitude Era", and how much they think that WCW sucked. Which is crap since Nitro beat Raw 84 weeks in a row, that is more than a year of victories for WCW. Even after that I still believe WCW was better, yes I tuned into Raw to see what Austin and the Rock were doing, but I did not stick around to see the Headbangers(God save us all) or the Oddities(I don't think anyone wanted to see Kurgin, whether he was good or bad).

Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 09:05 PM

 
 
This was a good read and totally agree with your comments about the current state of Raw at the top. The past few months (though wish I started before that) I find myself recording it so I can skip past the bad and in case something turns out to be surprisingly good, I can go back and appreciate it.

I think another column recently talked about a "what if" they completely segmented the shows and catered to a demographic completely. At least given that, they'd be able to appease fans, but even doing that, no doubt a person who is fan of show B would have one of their favorites on show A.

I just can't seem to wrap my head around what the direction they're trying to take (particularly with Raw). Obviously that is the flagship show so is somewhat a barometer for the state of the 'E, but even there, it seems like they don't know who they're scripting these shows for. Some of the stuff is catering to the kids and all, and this guest host business of course is a ploy at attracting a broader audience, but at what cost?

The more that WWE is pandering to these demographics that they're trying to pick up, the further they seem to stray away from the stuff that a good amount of their loyal fans want to see. Ahh well, at least there's still Smackdown.

Oh, also, as for that "must watch" moment, I remember back in 99 when Jericho first debuted. I remember somehow that came up at work the next day and one of the guys was pissed that he missed it, since he was also a Jericho fan from the WCW days, and since it was before he or I read stuff on the internet, we had no clue. Luckily I got to see that unfold.

I really hope that this DX reunion is short-lived, since HBK can breathe life into the show, so long as he's being his own man. Of course the problem with fastforwarding past this feud pretty much means that Legacy is stuck getting buried... again... or HBK turns on HHH which would be something to freshen everything up, though I'd be damned if that wouldn't offset the heel/face balance.


Posted By: Steve (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 09:23 PM

 
 
The Headbangers were much better in the ring than Mongo or Vincent or Scott Norton or Hall tasering Goldberg or the LwO or Flair going to an insane asylum.

Posted By: Iron Knee (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 09:33 PM

 
 
I also question the selective memories of those who fondly remember the attitude era. What I remember most about the Attitude/Monday night wars era is, the running tally one of the columnists I was reading at the time kept in his column listing the amount of wrestling on each show, which was usually around 15 minutes for Raw and Nitro, I think Nitro finally broke the 20 minutes mark when they went to 3 hours.

Show opens
1/2 hour intro interview with a screeching Stephanie McMahon
5 minute match
10 minutes of mid-card backstage shenanigans.
2nd hour starts with Rock 1/2 hour segment
2 minute match,
More mid card shenanigans
2 minute match
in ring promo
main event interview with McMahon/Austin


Posted By: Guest#0332 (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 09:44 PM

 
 
HHH still buried everyone. He beat the Rock for over a year it seemed like, and even got the win at WM. HHH has really vocal supporters, but the audience was just so much bigger before he killed it for everyone. Wrestling was better when the Rock was around because he put over so much other talent, so there were more stars and matches were more compelling. With HHH and Super Cena, you know that whoever they wrestle will just look like a chump.

I catch RAW every once in a while, usually I try to lift or hit the treadmill when it's on, but I'm usually done with my workout before the show is over and I don't bother watching the finish, especially if it's really boring. Usually I'll miss the opening too. I can't wait for MNF, it's just so much more consistent.


Posted By: Guest#0565 (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 09:51 PM

 
 
The Attitude Era had a LOT of crap along with the good. And if you go back and watch full Raws or SDs NOW, you can see it easily. The main event picture was just so MUST-SEE that many ignored the mediocre nonsense underneath.

Posted By: hghghghg (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 10:43 PM

 
 
It isn't about Attitude Era, it's about excitement.

It's hard to get excited about the main event of Raw because of HHH and John Cena. Reasonably speaking, we know that John Cena will always come out victorious. Anybody that manages to beat him (not named HHH) does so in a way that makes him look like a pathetic weasel. Randy Orton is the perfect example of this -- if he wins against Cena at Summerslam it will be because of some shenanigans he orchestrated.

That's what makes Smackdown better right now (supposing you don't spoil it and read results). The characters are better, the writing is better, and you know that people like John Morrison have a shot at the top sooner or later. There's no Cena or HHH holding everybody down -- and even when The Undertaker is around, he can let (or make) his opponents look awesome even if he wins the match.


Posted By: luna (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 11:15 PM

 
 
"During the "Monday Night Wars" Era, when RAW ended, I couldn't wait for seven days to be erased from the calendar, so I could watch next week's show. I can't tell you the last time I had that same feeling during the post-Attitude Era. Can you?"

100% with you on that one.


Posted By: dvs (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 11:34 PM

 
 
i am a hardcore wrestling fan. yet i have stopped watching raw a few months back. i am okay with it because, THERE ARE TWO OTHER BETTER SHOWS!!!

why do writers seem to think the wrestling world hinges on the success of raw and raw alone?

since its inception in 1999, smackdown has been the more entertaining program.


Posted By: rey (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 11:47 PM

 
 
see, this is why I called Raw last year "PG Attitude Era". Things felt different, fun and they were getting NEW GUYS over. But, I almost can't blame them for not pushing new guys on Raw right now.

Last year they tried Jeff Hardy. He got suspended. Regal and Kennedy's feud. Regal got suspended which ruined the both of them. They even tried to push Jamie Noble but supposedly he'd rather be in more of a backstage role most of the time. So that leaves Santino, Kofi Kingston, Legacy, Cryme Tyme, Paul Burchill, the women's division and of course CM Punk. Kingston and Punk are holding gold, Cryme Tyme is in one of the more hyped Summerslam matches against two former world champions, Legacy is doing more than fine, Burchill is starting to be relevent (somehow, despite his lack of a gimmick or charisma) in ECW, the women's division failed thanks to Mickie being overrated (all of her title defenses were boring despite the fact that the woman's champion was made to look somewhat important for once). I admit that Santino should still be IC champion to this day however. They really screwed up the brilliance of THE HONK-A-METER.

But yeah, the Attitude Era (excluding Backlash 2000 through Wrestlemania 17 and Wrestlemania 13 through 14 which was actually awesome) is a great example of history being written by the winners. Although the Austin vs. Mcmahon stuff did deserve all of the praise it got.


Posted By: Big Lantern Ghost (Guest)  on August 19, 2009 at 11:51 PM

 
 
The big problem with the WWE right now really is the heavy scripting. No one comes across naturally, or sits comfortably in their role other than Chris Jericho. HBK and Taker on occassion too. John Cena and Randy Orton and a host of others are never allowed off the leash. What hope is there of this generation ever getting an "Austin 3:16" like speech when that's the case.

Posted By: Guest#1697 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 12:35 AM

 
 
I was responsible for this Attitude era you speak so fondly of.

Posted By: Dean Douglas (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 04:35 AM

 
 
I still maintain that what killed wrestling was NOT Vince buying WCW, it was NOT the crappy Invasion angle, and it was NOT HHH burying everybody. Those things sucked, but honestly-- I can't see it being HHH's fault that WWE seems to have completely forgotten how to even build a midcard feud (at least on Raw).

I haven't seen many articles touch on this (though there's a few), but in my opinion stuff started going down hill around the time Vince took the company public.


Posted By: M:-X (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 07:23 AM

 
 
In general, Vince doesn't seem to care about his fans.

The fans he does have are going to stick aroung anyway (the smarks, the kids etc), so instead of putting stuff on Raw that entertains his core audience, he spends all his time desperately trying to get more people - who are NOT wrestling fans - to watch Raw. If he suceeds in getting them to stay, he literally has an audience made up of people who don't like wrestling (the kids, the people who tune in to see Jeremy Piven), and anybody who likes wrestling or even sports-entertainment can go and fuck themselves.

But, in fairness to Vince, he does give the wrestling fans the weekly gift of Smackdown, and for that I am truly thankful. As long as Smackdown maintains its quality, Raw can be guest hosted by Bruno for all I care.


Posted By: Quimby (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 08:01 AM

 
 
Great read. Agree with pretty much everything you said.

Raw just isn't "must-see" TV anymore. I still watch it every week like you and all the other die-hard fans like us, and I'm definitely a lifer as well.

Raw isn't just not the same as it was back in the '90s, it's not the same as it was a few years ago. Raw in 2005-2006 was way better than Raw in 2009 IMO.

The main event is stale and you nailed it too about how WWE won't commit to a non-main eventer on Raw long enough for us to have any confidence that the guy has a shot to be a big star. As a result, he doesn't get over, and his push dies.

Remember when it looked like they were giving MVP a major push when he came out and was trash talking Legacy? Where is MVP now? A bland mid-card feud with Jack Swagger.

Remember when Mark Henry looked like an absolute BEAST when he DESTROYED Orton on his first night on Raw? Where is he now? In a little comedy team with Hornswoggle.

I won't even get into what happened with the Miz.

No one other than the 'big boys' matter on Raw right now and it's obvious that Vince wants it that way. Otherwise, someone else might actually, ya know, get a shot at making it big.

That would be terrible for business though. After all, building new stars has never ever worked in professional wrestling and would certainly be a major risk to the WWE empire.


Posted By: SU_RKO (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 08:21 AM

 
 
Well, we all know that McMahon made some deal with the devil a long time ago. First, the devil instructed him to screw Bret Hart. After that, the devil granted McMahon all of his success during the Attitude Era from 1998-2001. Then, the devil had the last laugh when he made sure McMahon royally screwed up the InVasion storyline. After that, he forced McMahon to change the name of his organization and McMahon's "wrestling" company has been dying a slow painful death since then. So you see, its all the devil's fault. He forced McMahon to screw Bret, then he allowed McMahon a few years of prosperity and the last seven years have been Chinese water torture. That devil sure does have some sense of humor. Just think, McMahon can no longer say or show the letters WWF. But, he can say or show WCW any time. Sometimes revenge is a dish served like arsenic in oatmeal. It takes a long time to kill you.

Posted By: dude11767 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 09:38 AM

 
 
I have to repeat the other main point others bring up: THEY NEED COMPETITION. Without a WCW or whatever, they CAN do whatever they want, however they want it, and don't have to listen to fans or try anything new. Cause where else are you going to go?

(Yes, there's TNA, but we can go on ad infinitum as to why they haven't become "competition")


Posted By: Guest#7056 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 10:26 AM

 
 
Our memories of 5, 10 or 15 years ago will always be those events on the extreme - the very good and the very bad. All the mediocre stuff that existed in-between doesn't exist any more except on video tape.

But what happened this past week on Raw - all of that is fresh in our minds. The good, the bad and all the stuff in-between. And if we are currently not happy with the product, we tend to overexaggerate those bad things in our head and remember when things were good in the past to further support our dislike of the current product.

Say you break up with your current girlfriend. Things just didn't work out. One of the first things to pop into your head will be how great a girlfriend was 10 years ago. The sex was great, she was good looking and she liked watching football and wrestling. But you forget to remember that she also made you get rid of your dog, she drained your bank account and that she ran off with her ex-boyfriend after he got out of jail.

Why do you forget those bad things? It's because you want to convince yourself that you are better off without your most recent ex-GF because you've obviously had better ones.

If you can't enjoy RAW now because you don't like the product, then enjoy NOT liking it. Enjoy complaining about the staleness of the product, the lack of a push for The Miz, the juvenile antics of DX. Turn RAW into your own personal Mystery Science Theater 3000. And then enjoy those rare moments when something good does happen - it will make it even better going in without expectations.


Posted By: BobbyC (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 11:33 AM

 
 
I'd say one thing that the Attitude Era has over this "Entertainment Era" is that the Attitude Era was still fairly well-planned. Yes, you had some of Russo's storylines that had shitty endings or no endings at all, but most of the time there was some closure. Nowadays Raws are thrown together right before the show starts or wven while the show is going on. That's bullshit and very short-sighted.

Plus there's the feeling that WWE is just coasting right now. If TNA were a serious threat or even beat WWE in the ratings, WWE would step things up and make things interesting.

Sadly, I don't ever see TNA giving WWE a run for its money like WCW was doing for a bit because TNA sucks a hell of a lot more than WWE.


Posted By: Zingy (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 12:34 PM

 
 
I think the guys at the top now just aren't as good as the guys back then.

Plain n simple.


Posted By: Guest#5876 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 12:43 PM

 
 
I agree with everybody who's thinkin' that WWE is dying since Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Razor Ramon and THE ROCK left!
Shawn Michaels got older, HHH has become a Goodboy, did I forget somebody YES BOOKER T and Goldust, Rikishi and Too Cool,Curt Angel they all were amazing during this time(1994-2004)

RIP WWE (+2009)


Posted By: AG03 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 12:53 PM

 
 
This sounds like one of those nostalgic fans who just lives in the past and hates everythng current.

Match times in the Attitude era were probably shorter than they are now. With Russo and Vince's "Throw anything at the wall and see what sticks" philosophy, you had a lot more wrestlecrap on tv than ever. Beaver Cleavage, anyone?

Not to mention the Attitude Era was a complete rip-off of ECW.


Posted By: lilwayne1 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 01:27 PM

 
 
"There was so much depth during the "Attitude Era" for all three companies. When you blinked your eyes, another star was born. OK, the WCW's case, every new star that got "over" wouldn't be elevated. Unless your name was Bill Goldberg or Diamond Dallas Page. In the WWF, Vince seemed to distribute the wealth. Just look back during the years of 1996 until the beginning of 2001."

Actually, WWE's roster didn't have depth circa the Attitude era. They had a fairly shallow talent pool, which is one of the reasons they were forced to turn to a more extreme product. It was also one of the reasons they were forced to push new people because they had to work with what little they had. Why do you think guys like Warrior and Sid kept popping up in the early transition to the Attitude era in '96/'97? The only main event talent they had was Shawn, Bret, and Taker until Austin arrived on the scene.


Posted By: Guest#6711 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 01:38 PM

 
 
I didn't like the Attitude era because the matches were only 2-3 minutes long and it was too obviously fake. I mean, everyone knows its a work but Russo was a bit too fond of the whole "worked shoot" thing.

Posted By: MissyNEVERWearssocksWithShoes (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 03:52 PM

 
 
Fans are always complaining about today's stuff saying the Attitude Era was better. But when a columnist points it out, suddenly that's not the case?

The Attitude Era WAS miles better than this Era, end of. It's not nostalgia, you can watch the clips yourself. The main event scene was infinitely better, you had Rock and Austin around at their peak. You had HHH back when he was good at something and didn't need gimmicks to look decent. You had tons of top guys who could win the World title and not look out of place. The promos were better simply because there was less control by backstage guys.

The shows seemed more fresh and original, you were less sure of what was going to happen despite the internet's influence. Another factor that can't be replicated today is the crossover by wrestlers to different companies. The Jericho WWF debut was awesome. A TNA guy appearing on WWE simply isn't the same.

Also worth pointing out Vince was more likely to take risks, let the workers make stuff happen on their own. Going PG now instantly puts various limits on the matches and promos regardless of how hard they try to do new stuff. Giving Cena the Hogan push now is the biggest reason of several why there are chunks of the crowds that boo him. Vince doesn't know what wrestling fans want as much as he used to, and trys gimmicks to go for short terms ratings spikes despite not having any direct ratings competition in the wrestling world. There is no need for them to push the envelope now, and it shows. So we the fans lose.


Posted By: Frank (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 04:42 PM

 
 
I just wish Smackdown and Impact were live so they both gave you that "anything can happen vibe" to avoid the spoilers. I know, I know, don't read them, but it's like picking at a scab with spoilers, you know you shouldn't, but you do anyway.

Fact is, WWE hasn't sucked since the name change, demise of WCW & ECW, the InVasion angle or the end of the attitude era.

The WWE / Raw, mainly, died the day that Vince decided "Wrestling" was such a dirty word.

I have no problem with wrestlings being called superstars, but when you can't even say "fans" or "superstars" and have to use terms like "universe" and "entertainers", the whole company is indicted.

For all of Vinces success with the WWF in the past, his "entertainment" aspect of other ventures is pretty poor - WBF, XFL, New York Restaurant.

I have no problem with chucking in a few BIG celebrities of the time into WrestleMania like he did with Ali , Liberace etc, but everything now just reeks of scraping the barrel.

The problem is, as long as Vince makes money, he will never change his outlook. That seems to be all that motivates him, which is fine, as it is a business.

The only thing people can do is hit him where it hurts and unfortunately, that means not watching RAW.

It's not like you ever get a shock anymore though, is it?

I mean, who's going to jump ship from a competitor? Who's the next rising star, that you can honestly say will be the next big thing?

The future is very bleak until Vince dies and Triple H retires, which I don't see happening any time soon.


Posted By: TheTheoryofTimeandSpace (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 05:30 PM

 
 
"If you can't enjoy RAW now because you don't like the product, then enjoy NOT liking it. Enjoy complaining about the staleness of the product, the lack of a push for The Miz, the juvenile antics of DX. Turn RAW into your own personal Mystery Science Theater 3000. And then enjoy those rare moments when something good does happen - it will make it even better going in without expectations."

Or better yet, track down old tapes and whatnot and remember when you were/could really be a fan.


Posted By: Guest#4573 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 06:31 PM

 
 
The point is, the Federation and the Attitude Eras had their own charm, even the not-so-good elements. Plus you had more REALLY GOOD elements. That charm is lost on today's product. It happens a lot in entertainment in general.

Posted By: Guest#7584 (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 07:26 PM

 
 
"During the 1996-2001 run in the WWF, they featured Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, Kane, Mick Foley, the Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, The Big Show, and Mr. McMahon as their top performers. Not to mention the upper mid-card wrestlers like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Degeneration X, the Nation of Domination, Ken Shamrock, the Hart Foundation, the New Age Outlaws, the Dudleys, the Hardy Boys, Edge, and Christian, who were all promenient players in the WWF. They would all, occasionally, get a chance in the spotlight."

That's probably the biggest compliment you can pay Vince Russo. Russo was the guy who pushed for new guys to be given a shot, he cared about everyone on the roster.


Posted By: mlsq42 (Registered)  on August 20, 2009 at 08:44 PM

 
 
"The WWE / Raw, mainly, died the day that Vince decided "Wrestling" was such a dirty word.

I have no problem with wrestlings being called superstars, but when you can't even say "fans" or "superstars" and have to use terms like "universe" and "entertainers", the whole company is indicted."

Exactly my point.


Posted By: MissyNEVERWearsSocksWithShoes (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 08:56 PM

 
 
I was responsible for this Attitude era you speak so fondly of.

Posted By: Dean Douglas (Guest) on August 20, 2009 at 04:35 AM

You weren't. I was.

Also look up my brilliant almost-kayfabe-breaking performance at Superbrawl V! Now THAT was attitude! With a capital T!


Posted By: Paul Roma (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 08:58 PM

 
 
I think this could be summed up like this:

VKM = Al Davis


Posted By: Uh--Oh (Guest)  on August 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM

 
 
Did somebody seriously try to say the headbangers were better in the ring then... anybody... hahahahahahahahaha

Posted By: themans (Guest)  on August 21, 2009 at 09:56 PM

 


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