That Was Then, Is This Too? 09.01.09: Sweet Farewells

Posted by Jasper Gerretsen on 09.01.2009

With Jeff Hardy all set to take his sabbatical, we take a look back at another WWE superstar who took time off, helping establish a new main-eventer on the way out, and, hopefully like Jeff Hardy in the future, returned better than ever.

i have this strange feeling that Danielson will actually get a legit shot in the WWE. And he will be given something very very close to the crippler gimmick, with no mention or acknowledgement of Benoit, kind of a way to further erase the memory of the wolverine. cattle mutilation will be replaced, not by the "crippler crossface", but by "The Dragon's Crossfire"

Posted By: jojo (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 03:31 PM

I expect Danielson to be given a gimmick very close to that of a 'shoot fighter', as it's something that they haven't done in a long time. I'm not sure if we'll see Cattle Mutilation, but if we do I wouldn't be surprised to see it under the name Danielson originally gave it, Arms Across America.

It would be excellent if they had him appear cost Orton the title at the submission only PPV so that he could get a shot at Cena. The announcers could play him up as a dangerous veteran who's won wherever he went and isn't afraid to hurt people. Since the WWE added the ridiculous stipulation about Orton losing the title if anyone interferes on his behalf, Danielson could emerge from the crowd and hit Cena with the Cattle Mutilation, thus injuring him while insuring he gets the title.

Posted By: Iron Knee (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 03:50 PM

After the way Lesnar left the company, and to a lesser degree Lashley, I think WWE will be very cautious about thrusting new wrestlers into the main event scene.

do you guys think wwe will give the name that everyone in the indy sence known him as "american dragon" or change his name. I think they going to change his name because swegger name is "the all american american" so i dont think they will keep his indy name

Posted By: Endy (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 04:06 PM

I really doubt that. As I pointed out before, CM Punk got extremely lucky because Paul Heyman made him his personal pet project. They will give Danielson a new name and nickname, simply because of copyrights.

Interesting comparasins between both guys, both are/ were phenomenal in ring yet lacking big time in promo skills and charisma. Benoit had an impressive physique which negated that to an extent while Danielson just looks some everyday guy you'd see walking the street which makes me thinks his prospects for succes are less. CM punk is comparable to Danielson through the physique/ ability standpoints but is far more accomplished with promos and connecting with a crowd outside a ring. I fear he's going to fall in the London/ Kendrick category of "Yeah there good in the ring but thats 1/3 of the package" 2/3 will cut it, and Danielson doesn't have that.

Posted By: Will (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 04:09 PM

I don't know if you can cut up any wrestler into three different aspects. However, Danielson has evolved tremendously on the mic over the past few years, with both his work as ROH champion and his feud with Takeshi Morishima. Danielson might not be the best guy on the mic, but at the same time he's quite capable of getting the point across.

This comparison is the strongest argument that Danielson might make it past development and become a legitimate WWE star. Benoit could be viewed as the model for succeding in the WWE purely on the basis of work rate, with his best tecnical wrestler in the world gimmick and his Cross-face Crippler submission hold having brought him to the greatest height in sports entertainment. I do have to wonder if the thirty plus pounds of muscle that Benoit had over Danielson will make a difference, though. It may bode well that the WWE have signed him knowing what Danielson looks like and definately aren't going to want to see him turn into a mini-hulk before appearing (given the microscope that suspicious muscle development is currently under). I do think Danielson's appearence and crowd rapport should work in his favor. While Benoit was always a strange looking man and perfomed for the audience in a detached manner, Danielson has proven to have a versitile appearence and his ability to interact with the fans (as both a face and a heel) during his matches has flourished over the years.

Two more things that I think will work in his favor:

A) I predict The Cattle Mutilation will be hugely over. It's a genuinely different submission move which we haven't seen in the WWE recently. Most of the WWE's current submission finishers are just stock moves that certain wrestlers have latched onto (ie the STF, Full Nelson, Camel Clutch). The Cattle Mutilation looks awesome and it will instantly identify Danielson in the same way the SSP has made Bourne stand out.

B) The MMA Elbows could be a revolutionary development in WWE. I personally am a big fan of the repeated strike finisher. This is a concept that is relatively new to WWE; we did see it in the Jericho/Michaels feud, but in that case it was used to prolong the feud without to occurence of a decisive victory. Now we could see it make it's way to the WWE as a regular finishing sequence. When I heard that Danielson had started using this finish in ROH I ordered some DVDs because I just had to see how badass it looked, and I was not disappointed.
While they won't admit it, the WWE wants in on MMA's demographic, that's what Breaking Point is about. That's why there have been so many more knee strikes and kicks worked into the action. This is a finish that will appeal to MMA fans and get over the brutality that Danielson is capable of dishing out regardless of his stature.

Posted By: Lance O' Leary (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 06:25 PM

If anyone is perfect for the role of 'MMA fighter', it's Bryan Danielson. He has even spent time in Couture's gym to add more MMA style moves to his repetoire. I think the first time we've seen anything close to MMA elbows in WWE was when Matt Hardy used them on Shane Helms when the latter confronted him about turning on his brother Jeff, and I think the audience is ready to see it as a finisher. They could even book it the way they booked Finlay's first match, with Danielson repeatedly getting disqualified for excessive violence to get over just how lethal he is.

Danielson has an uphill battle ahead of him in WWE. Not only will he have to use his questionable promo skills, he'll have to tone down his in ring style to suit the 'E, cause I don't see Vinnie Mac letting a short, pale, 185lb, tattooless guy in maroon underwear using strong style on any of his brands. I'm not worried about which brand he gets put on because I know he can work wonders with anybody, but I don't want to hear Cole and/or Lawler trying to call one his matches.

Posted By: K. Bett (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 08:50 PM

While Danielson will definitely tone down his style, he has proven in the past that he's capable to adapt. I can see him bulk up a bit and maybe even get a bit of a tan, but with WWE's increasing focus on smaller guys I think Danielson has a good chance of makng it.

There are three crucial reasons why Bryan Danielson will be the next CM Punk and not the next Colt Cabana.

1) He is a mat based worker with the ability to work larger than he really is. Kendrick and London both work at their size, not above it. Danielson will be able to make the jump up to the heavyweights where others couldn't.

2) He is highly intelligent and has, from all accounts, a really good head on his shoulders. Paul London lost his way because of his attitude and Brian Kendrick decided he liked the marijuana more than his job. A great attitude, massive talent and an ability to engage and deal with political obstructions is a key in dealing with any corporate setting, much less the WWE.

3) High placed political allies. He has his trainer (Shawn Michaels), his mentor (William Regal) and a contemporary (CM Punk) on his side which is more than most talent gets when they arrive. He's extremely well connected. Plus, I'd imagine that it wasn't cheap for the WWE to bring him in, so I doubt that they wouldn't give him an opportunity to succeed.

Let's just see how this plays out rather than jump the gun and call it a bad move on Danielson's behalf. Jericho, Rey Mysterio and Kofi Kingston are all title holders right now and they're just about the same size as Bryan Danielson... it doesn't mean he will immediatley fail.

Also, if you're a ROH talent, the WWE probably looks better than TNA right now because a ROH Alumnus just headlined SummerSlam while Samoa Joe is stuck in the mid-card.

Folks like Nigel McGuinness, Davey Richards, Bison Smith and the Briscoes have to look awfully hard at their careers and decide if this would be the right move for them.

Posted By: xXxLenWierzalisxXx (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 09:33 PM

You make some very interesting points, especially the bit about working larger than he is. Like I said, Benoit benefitted hugely from not spending any significant time as a cruiserweight in the United States, as he never carried the stigma that comes with wrestling in that division. His rather muscular look definitely helped in that regard too.

As for the names you listed, I always thought Nigel McGuinness would be perfect as a WWE wrestler. He's large and muscular, extremely strong on the mic as either a heel or a babyface, and can wrestle both submission and high impact matches with equal skill.

if this danielson is so good, best in the world, why would he need to go to florida wrestling? goldberg, steiner, rvd, all these people never went to developement when they signed with wwe.

this shows all roh wrestlers are green, and need to be fine tuned before stepping up onto the big stage.

Posted By: danny (Guest) on August 25, 2009 at 10:22 PM

As many others have pointed out, WWE has a very different style from ROH and NOAH. Think about it this way: if you transfer from one company to the other, even when doing the exact same job, there will always be things that are done differently. Danielson won't have to learn how to wrestle all over again, he simply has to familiarize himself with the WWE style.

Both guy had TONS of charisma. The problem is that most smarks see charisma as being promos and there's so much more than that. Almost NO ONE in the WWE has facial expressions in the ring as Danielson.

Posted By: Guest#9082 (Guest) on August 26, 2009 at 09:17 AM

I agree that Danielson's facial expressions are tremendous, and have become a large part of his character over the past two years. He looks far more mature, and he can instantly get the entire crowd to pay attention with a cold stare, signaling that the poor fellow standing across from him is about to get several limbs twisted in ways they were never designed to. Of course this works better in front of 1.500 spectators in the Hammerstein Ballroom than 50.000 in Madison Square Garden, but I think that, on TV at least, it'll still get the point across.

Stop! Banner time!



That Was Then, Is This Too? - We'll Meet Again...

We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away.

On Friday August 28th, 2009, Jeff Hardy wrestled what could very well be his last match in front of a WWE audience. His second WWE run lasted just a hair over three years and saw him capture two intercontinental championships, a world tag team championship, a WWE championship and two world heavyweight championships. This made his second WWE run a remarkable success, as he quickly solidified himself as a legitimate main event talent, finally realizing the potential some people saw in him as early as ten years ago.

Of course his second WWE tenure wasn't without its blemishes. It was late in 2007 that WWE made its first attempt at pushing Hardy into the main event. He stood victorious side by side with Triple H at Survivor Series, the only two survivors in a classic five man elimination tag match, then beat the same man clean in a huge upset at Armageddon. During the feud that followed, Orton was hit with possibly the highest Swanton in WWE history, as Hardy dove on top of him off the RAW stage. Seeing Hardy raise his hand as he was stretchered out was one of the most memorable moments of 2008.

Even though he was unsuccessful against Orton at the Royal Rumble and against Triple H in the elimination chamber at No Way Out, Hardy went into the WrestleMania build on fire. The push came to a screeching halt however when Hardy was busted on his second wellness violation in the middle of the build towards WrestleMania, where he was to participate in the Money in the Bank ladder match. He dropped the intercontinental title and missed WrestleMania and Backlash, and seemed to have proven all his critics right about being an unreliable screwup.

Hardy rebounded however, and after a few months of feuding with Umaga he moved to the SmackDown! brand and into its main event scene. He challenged for the title on three consecutive pay-per-views but was unsuccessful each time. He was slated to challenge Triple H again at Survivor Series, but was found unconscious in his hotel room and replaced by Edge, who managed to capture the title. He got another chance at Armageddon and shocked the world by pinning Edge and capturing his first world title.

Hardy's first run lasted only until the next PPV. After a series of mysterious accidents in the buildup to the show, Edge defeated him with the help of older brother Matt. The two feuded for several months, with Matt winning the Extreme Rules match at WrestleMania and Jeff winning the I Quit match at Backlash. After Matt was drafted to RAW, Hardy set his sights on his old nemesis Edge and the world heavyweight championship. Although he failed in his attempt to capture the title at Judgment Day, he finally managed to defeat Edge in an epic ladder match at Extreme Rules.

Hardy seemed all set to claim his place as the top name of WWE's blue brand, but there was one man who had other plans: the straightedge superstar CM Punk. At the moment of Hardy's triumph he swept in with his Money in the Bank contract in hand and defeated Hardy in just over a minute. Although he was still a face at the time, Punk quickly began to express frustration over the fact that Hardy and the fans seemed to take offense at the way he cashed in his title shot, since they didn't seem to mind nearly as much when he did the same with Edge a year earlier.

It was around this time that rumours first started surfacing that Hardy wanted to take an extended vacation, but if there was any truth to them it didn't show in the booking. The feud soon became deeply personal as Punk reverted back to the old straightedge heel character that had made him famous in ROH. Hardy and Punk traded the title and they continued to feud, and as they did it seemed more and more likely that Hardy was indeed on his way out. After a brutal TLC match at SummerSlam all Hardy wanted was one last shot, and he put his WWE career on the line to get it. In an excellent TV main event Punk defeated him for the last time and banished Hardy from WWE.

That Was Then...

Almost four years ago there was another WWE superstar looking to take some time off. After becoming the first Undisputed WWE champion (to quote George Carlin: "If it's undisputed, what's all the fighting about?") Chris Jericho had spent the past four years in the midcard, never again gaining the world championship but still having several memorable feuds, mainly with former tag partner Christian and childhood idol Shawn Michaels.

As Jericho himself put it however, he was mentally burnt out and no longer challenged by wrestling at that point in time, and he had done everything he has ever wanted to do in the business. WWE complied, noting that the door would always be open for his return. During his hiatus from the wrestling world, Jericho mainly focused on his music career. He toured and recorded with his band Fozzy, had several small acting jobs and hosted his own radio show. He would be gone for well over two years, with the first hints of his return appearing over two years later.

It wasn't until November that Jericho would actually return, interrupting Randy Orton's championship celebration. The incident led to a match between the two at that year's Armageddon PPV, but JBL's interference cost him the title. He would feud with the announcer over the next few months, and it looked like Jericho would only be getting a token title shot before being thrust straight back into the midcard.

All this changed however, when he interfered in the dispute between Shawn Michaels and Batista, who were at odds after Michaels had retired Flair at WrestleMania. Although he initially sought to reconcile the two friends, he finally turned heel on Michaels, leading to a bloody and emotional feud that stretched several months. In the process Jericho completely reinvented himself, stripping himself of everything that made him the Ayatollah of Rock-and-Rollah. The new cold, calculating Jericho immediately became one of the most hated heels in the company. He would go on to win the world heavyweight championship twice before being drafted to SmackDown!.

Even though he hasn't been main-eventing PPVs for quite some time, Jericho is still one of the most talented heels in the company, as proven by his highly entertaining feud with Rey Mysterio, which went a very long way to rebuilding the prestige of the intercontinental title. After this program it seemed like he was all set to do the same for the unified tag team championship, but unfortunately Edge's ankle injury seems to have made this a lot possible. Still, with the world's biggest athlete at his side it seems like Jericho will continue to work hard off to help build the tag straps, and I can think of few men better suited for this task.

...Is This Too?

It seems that, in the way their exits have been booked, the departure of these two IWC favourites has been very similar, with both men being used to help progress new talent into the main event scene. WWE is often criticized for not producing enough new main event talent, but they made the most of both these opportunities. Despite defeating JBL, who had at that point been undefeated for almost a year, to win the WWE championship at WrestleMania, he was still far from established. Although his true breakout moment wouldn't come until a year later, when he beat Triple H at WrestleMania, his feud with Jericho still went a long way to establishing Cena as a long-term main event wrestler.

Over on the blue brand, it seems that they have done the same for CM Punk, although the face and heel roles have switched sides. If anything, I think that this version of the 'loser leaves town' scenario is even more effective. No matter how his upcoming feud with The Undertaker will go, CM Punk will always be the man who sent one of the most adored wrestlers in WWE packing, and he will carry the heat of that act with him for months. He didn't just injure or humiliate a beloved wrestler, but insulted the fans directly by taking Hardy away from them.

As for Hardy himself, time will tell what the future has in store for the Charismatic Enigma. He's a musician, a painter and a biker. His Imag-I-Nation, as he likes to call it, is shaped through sculpting and painting, and through the music of his band Peroxwhy?gen. He has also previously run his own reality show, The Hardy show, and seems to be interested in doing that again. He definitely has enough to keep him busy, and I have good hopes that he manages to stay clean this time.

All signs seem to point to Hardy's return to WWE being a matter of 'when' rather than 'if', as his departure has been very positive this time around, with no drug use issues or conflicts about rehab coming into the picture. I doubt we'll see another attempt at a TNA career or a failed ROH performance, and if Jericho's successful return is any indicator, we shouldn't be surprised to see Jeff headlining WrestleMania eventually.