411’s Buy or Sell 9.4.09: Open the Untouchable Gate This Sunday, Ring of Honor's Future Stars, IWA-MS is Gone for Good, and More!!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 09.04.2009

This week, the 411 Wrestling Staff gets set for huge cards in PWG and Dragon Gate USA as Ryan Byers battles Steve Cook in Buy or Sell!

Welcome everyone to Week 123 of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.

BANNER!


(Special thanks to Jasper Gerretsen)

With IWA-MS closed down, we will see an influx of new talent in ROH that previously stayed out to stay loyal to Ian Rotten.

Ryan Byers : SELL. This question presupposes that people who worked for IWA-MS couldn't work for ROH and vice versa. That was not the case over the last several months, nor has it ever been the case. People competed in both promotions regularly, including Chris Hero, Necro Butcher, Jimmy Jacobs, Claudio Castagnoli, Roderick Strong and Sami Callihan working IWA shows within the last year while simultaneously appearing in Ring of Honor. Also, to the extent that "IWA guys" and "ROH guys" existed, I sincerely doubt that the men who remained "IWA guys" did so because of a loyalty to Ian Rotten. I say that because every time throughout the history of ROH that there was an IWA wrestler who looked like he was talented enough to keep up with the rest of the Ring of Honor crew, he showed up there almost IMMEDIATELY. The same principle can be applied to the current crop of top guys in IWA-MS. Dudes like Dingo, Devon Moore, and Jason Hades aren't being booked exclusively in the IWA because they want to be booked exclusively in the IWA. They're being booked exclusively in the IWA because, as they stand right now, they're not on the same level as even the undercard ROH wrestlers.

Steve Cook : SELL. Well, partially sell. We may see some talent that was working in IWA come over to ROH. But the notion that they stayed out in order to stay loyal to Ian Rotten is something I have a very hard time believing. Newer IWA guys like Dingo & Egotistico Fantastico have appeared on ROH shows in the Midwest before, albeit not in important roles, and unless those guys have improved tremendously since the last time I saw them, I doubt that will change. Depending on whether WWE actually raids ROH or not, maybe spots will open up for former IWA talent...but again, I just don't see the only reason these guys didn't work for ROH was out of some loyalty to a guy who probably didn't pay them half the time.

1 for 1.

Dragon Gate USA has to start running non-PPV DVD tapings as soon as possible.

Ryan Byers : SELL. Ring of Honor has lost a lot of its buzz and popularity over the last several months. Some people want to blame that on the change in the booking regime. However, I see another reason that ROH isn't nearly as special as it was one, two, or even three years ago, and I have a feeling that many folks would agree with me if they stopped to think about it: ROH has lost a lot of its edge because of overexposure. They have a relatively small roster and have run so many shows with that small roster over the last several years that every card begins to run together, which leads to none of them feeling special, which leads to shows being skipped over by fans. Dragon Gate USA, by running only six shows per year, has virtually guaranteed that they will never run into the same problem. Every show will feel like an event, it will feel special, and it will feel like something that you absolutely HAVE to see if you're not watching the regular Dragon Gate product coming out of Japan. Besides, it's not as though DGUSA is in a position in which they HAVE to put on as many shows as possible in order to turn a profit. They're a subsidiary of a very successful Japanese wrestling promotion, so they can absorb small early losses while they figure out the business model that will be the most profitable for them. There is absolutely no need for the company to rush in to anything that might overextend its resources or dilute its product, and that is exactly what adding more tapings would do at this point

Steve Cook : SELL. I don't think they have to do anything they don't want to do. If they just want to do the six shows a year, why not? It makes it a lot easier on people who like to collect all the shows of a promotion on DVD, the wrestlers get plenty of open dates to book themselves elsewhere, and oh yeah, most of the DGUSA guys also work in Japan's Dragon Gate and are necessary to have there. DGUSA is better off with a limited schedule and playing nice with groups like CHIKARA who will bring in talent to fill out shows with the popular Japanese Dragon Gate guys. I won't be offended if they do more shows and not have them all on PPV, but I do think they should take some time and see how things look after a year or so before expanding to more shows and non-PPV stuff.

2 for 2.

Bryan Danielson should not be competing for PWG's World Title before going to the WWE.

Ryan Byers : SELL. Yeah, putting a wrestler in a major title match right before he leaves for WWE is never a good idea. It worked out horribly when ECW did it with the Dudley Boys and when ROH did it with CM Punk. Seriously, the one complaint that I always hear about a wrestler getting a title shot in his final match with a promotion is that it makes the outcome of said match too "predictable." Here's a bit of a newsflash for people who feel that way: Bryan Danielson's farewell matches in the various independent promotions that he has competed in over the years aren't about seeing your traditional wrestling match in which half of the fun is figuring out who wins. Bryan Danielson's farewell matches are about paying tribute to the man for everything that he has given to us over the course of the past several years and wishing him the best as he takes on new challenges with a new employer. If the fact that you think that you can call the winner of the match in advance detracts from your enjoyment of a moment like that, then you need to turn in your "wrestling fan" card right now, because your priorities when it comes to this form of entertainment are completely backwards.

Steve Cook : BUY. This is purely out of spite on my part...before PWG switched Danielson's September 4 match to being against Hero, he was set to take on Karl "Machine Gun" Anderson, who happens to be a product of the Northern Wrestling Federation in the Greater Cincinnati area. Having been to several NWF events over the last few years, I got to see Anderson develop as a wrestler into what he is now, a rising star on the West Coast and a regular with New Japan Pro Wrestling. A match with Danielson could have been huge for his career, especially if it ended up being Danielson's final PWG match.

Instead, PWG decided to switch it up and threw Hero in there. I have no qualm with Hero, but I'm already going to see Danielson vs. Hero in Dayton, Ohio on September 18. I'd be far more likely to purchase PWG's DVD of the September 4 show if it had Danielson facing somebody I hadn't already seen him against, especially if he was facing the Machine Gun. Call me a homer, but I'm not a fan of this development at all.

2 for 3.


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North American independent promotions can only survive a WWE raid if they work together.

Steve Cook : SELL. Indy promotions working together? Oh Bauer, surely you jest. You'd have a better chance of seeing peace in the Middle East than seeing all the North American indy promotions band together and fight the evil empire that World Wrestling Entertainment can be at times. Besides, even if they did, I doubt they could find the funding to compete with WWE, and still wouldn't have the exposure around the world that WWE does. WWE allows wrestlers to ply their trade in front of the most people, and has the most money. As long as that is true, indy wrestlers will go there. Even if WWE signs indy wrestlers other than Danielson, odds are that they'll have to let people go in order to make way for the new talent. Then the old WWE talent goes to the indies or TNA. It's a cycle.

You can raid the indies, and yes, odds are that the top indy promotions around now won't last forever. But as long as there are people out there willing to spend money on running wrestling shows, and as long as there are fans who want to go to wrestling shows that won't cost them an arm and a leg to get in, the indy scene will never truly die.

Ryan Byers : SELL. First of all, I sincerely doubt that there will be a "WWE raid" of independent promotions. Occasionally you run across a professional wrestler who has all of the tools to make it in WWE but just hasn't been picked up by them for reasons that nobody understands. However, these wrestlers are far and away the exception and not the rule. Ninety percent of the time, when a wrestler is on the independent scene and not under a contract with the E, there is a readily identifiable reason why Vince and company haven't come calling. The guy either doesn't have the look they want or doesn't wrestle the style they want or doesn't cut the promos they want and so on down the line. That makes a "raid" highly unlikely. Furthermore, even if the WWE brass did wake up one morning and decide that they want to eliminate independent wrestling in the United States by pulling away their top stars, there is absolutely nothing that could stop them. Period. If you want proof, look no further than the 1980's, when an aggressive recruiting campaign by Vince McMahon wiped out numerous successful territories across the country and largely left Vince as "the only game in town." Each and every one of those territories had larger, more loyal fanbases and bigger budgets than any current North American independent promotion has. Hell, some of them had larger fanbases and bigger budgets than all of the independent wrestling promotions in North American COMBINED. McMahon still won out, and that was in a period during which he did not have nearly the financial resources that he does now, nor nearly the level of experience exterminating competition. So the bad news for the independents is that, if WWE wanted to crush them all, it could probably do so with a snap of its proverbial fingers. The good news is that WWE doesn't seem to care enough to do so, nor will they at any point without a significant change in their philosophy.

3 for 4.

Outside of Tyler Black and the Young Bucks, there are no future stars in Ring of Honor.



Steve Cook : SELL. That seems harsh. No future stars in Ring of Honor? Surely this can't be true...but maybe it depends on who you consider a future star. Is Davey Richards a future star? He's 26 years old, which is many years away from a good professional wrestler's prime, and people have been raving about his stuff this year. He's never really been a main-eventer in ROH, but maybe that day will come soon. Now after that...the pickings do get kinda slim. But I should mention that the Dark City Fight Club seems like the kind of tag team that WWE would have loved back when they had tag teams. And people do like them some Kenny King, though I remain unconvinced. ROH is in a transitional phase right now, obviously, but somebody's going to kick it up a notch.

Ryan Byers : SELL. I think that the ROH roster is significantly weaker now than it has been at any other point during the company's history, and there aren't that many future stars in the promotion. However, to say that there are no future stars on the roster outside of Black and the Bucks ignores a noteworthy up and comer by the name of Kenny Omega. He's only slightly less polished in the ring than Tyler and the Jacksons, and he's significantly more charismatic than any of them. If we're talking about a race to the big two, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Kenny beat out anybody currently in ROH outside of Castangoli and Hero.

4 for 5.

Excluding Ring of Honor, Dragon Gate USA will have the Independent Wrestling Event of the Year with Open The Untouchable Gate.

Steve Cook : BUY. Ah what the hell, I'll jump on the optimism bandwagon. Doi vs. Danielson is a main event that you will likely never see again, and unless one of the guys catches the swine flu it should be a pretty kickass match. Kendrick vs. CIMA should be pretty incredible, and you Young Buck fans will probably love their match with Horiguchi & Saito. Dragon Kid & Yoshino are usually good together, Richards & Shingo should be fun, and we get a tag team match with QUACK~! Yes, I am all about this show on paper. Of course, things can happen, but I'm willing to be optimistic and say this could be the best indy show of the year, and you can throw ROH in there as well.

Ryan Byers : BUY. In fact, I'll take this a step further and say that INCLUDING Ring of Honor, Dragon Gate USA will have the independent wrestling event of the year with Open the Untouchable Gate. I'm sorry, but Ring of Honor in 2009 is about as fresh and entertaining as Monday Night Raw in 2009. The vast majority of the people in that promotion who were compelling personalities have gone elsewhere, and we're left with a crew of guys who, even though they can put on entertaining matches, have put on the same matches against one another so many times now that I never want to see them wrestle each other again. DGUSA, meanwhile, is fresh, different, and going out of its way to regularly put on the best possible matches without running so often that the product gets stale. To top it all off, on paper, the Untouchable Gate card doesn't even look like you average solid indy card. It looks like the sort of dream card that could top even the best ROH shows and even some of the best Japanese Dragon Gate shows if everything clicks. Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi? You've got two of the hottest acts in wrestling going one-on-one for probably the last time. Spanky vs. CIMA? You've got a Brian Kendrick who is ready to lace up his working boots one more time facing perhaps the most consistent wrestler on the planet. Dragon Kid vs. Yoshino? You've got two awesome performers who intentionally took it a bit slower in their last match so that they could come back with something even more epic this time around. I am more excited for this DGUSA card than I have been for any ROH card since 2006, and I will be gobsmacked if it does not live up to my expectations.

5 for 6.

The 123rd edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 5 for 6! Stay tuned for next week as two more people will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.

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