The Contentious Ten 9.7.09: The Top Ten Wrestling Knockout Holds
Posted by John Peters on 09.07.2009
With Breaking Point this Sunday, you can bet that at least one of the big matches will end with the whole “wrestler passed out, but didn’t tap out” technicality. Do you want to know which moves could lead to this finish? Then you should check out this week’s Contentious Ten because I countdown wrestling’s greatest knockout holds.
Since last weeks comments were mostly about which moves I should or shouldn't have included in my Top Ten Submission Moves list I'm just going to focus in on a few comments concerning Chris Benoit. A few commenters attacked me and others defended me.
First, I couldn't tell from the context if this comment from Daniel was taking a jab at me or not, but he seemed to be:
"Despite all of Chris Benoit's technical prowess, he would routinely not tightly clutch the arm, making the move look very unconvincing."
A fine example why HE shouldn't be named anymore. I guess he clutched the arm correctly at least once, huh John?
"Shawn Michaels has used the hold, but never to the same level of effectiveness as Benoit."
100% true.
Posted By: Daniel (Guest) on August 31, 2009 at 12:56 AM
I'm not exactly sure what he meant when he wrote "why he shouldn't have been named anymore," in reference to what I wrote, seeing as it had nothing to do with his murdering of his wife and child.
This commenter: He MURDERED his wife and CHILD, seemed to think I was praising Benoit.
Hey great list but you weren't thorough enough on the cross face. You forgot to mention that its great for killing small children. Also the most famous instance is not Mania 20 but when he applied it to a 5 year old child and murdered him with it. How the f*ck are you going to talk about that piece of shit Benoit so glowingly AGAIN and not even mention what that piece of shit did to his wife and child? Seriously get your priorities straight. Its fine if people want to watch his matches but for god's sake quit talking about him so reverentially.
Posted By: He MURDERED his wife and CHILD (Guest) on August 31, 2009 at 10:25 AM
This sucks, because before I started writing for 411 I would frequently leave comments like this when I felt people were praising Benoit and ignoring what he did. I guess the shoe is on the other foot now. This might get me hate mail in the opposite direction, but I am personally unable to forgive or forget the actions of Chris Benoit. To me, the man is a piece of shit. He's a piece of shit for doing what he did to his wife and son, and he's a piece of shit (albeit to a lesser degree) because of the ramification those actions have had on wrestling fans. If you are or were a Chris Benoit fan, his act of double-murder-suicide, aside from being a cowardly and monstrous act, is a metaphorical punch in your face because on top of those actions, he clearly did not give a fuck about his fans or how they would have to cope with having been a fan of a guy who decided killing his wife and son and then himself was the solution to his problems. I say this because I WAS a Chris Benoit fan, and that's how I feel. I am not a fan now. I can't watch his matches without thinking of his final actions, so I usually just don't watch them. Additionally, every time I turn on an old WWE DVD and have to sit through that stupid "Don't Try This at Home" segment my skin crawls when I hear Benoit's "I fractured a disk that fragmented into my spinal column." That's how badly I despise him.
That is how I personally feel about Chris Benoit. I am also aware, from having read the comments of other columns that some people are able to compartmentalize Chris Benoit. They can separate his final actions from his wrestling career and can "appreciate" his matches for what they are. Although I do not share this ability I don't begrudge anyone who does, and I believe that it is my job to discuss various aspects of pro wrestling as objectively as I can. Even though this is an opinion piece I still have to remain largely objective. For example, if I were making a Top Ten WrestleMania matches list, and I didn't list any Shawn Michaels matches because I (hypothetically) don't like him, that would be pretty ridiculous and overly biased.
Because last week's column was on submission holds I felt I had to include the Crippler Crossface, as it is, in the world of wrestling, a very effective submission hold. Unfortunately, Chris Benoit is the wrestler that used the hold the most frequently and with the most (kayfabe) success. Even if Benoit used the move to kill his son (I was not able to find a reliable source to confirm or deny this), that had nothing to do with the move in the context of what I was writing about it. Thus, in reference to the crossface I thought the best way to handle it was to write about the move (it was about the move not the wrestler) from a neutral standpoint. I'm not sure (in reference to the commenter's post) how I was writing about him glowingly. I felt I was simply stating facts. The highest profile victory the crossface ever earned was at WrestleMania XX, and Benoit made a lot of wrestlers submit by using the hold. I also commented on Benoit's technical prowess (maybe this was the glowing writing the commenter referred to), but only so I could point out how frequently he applied the move sloppily. If anyone thought I was praising Benoit, please reread what I wrote. I don't think saying that he won matches is praise. Furthermore, I don't think saying he was a good wrestler or had a good match denotes anything other than that. A historian can objectively say that Hitler was a good public speaker, but that doesn't necessarily mean the historian likes, reveres Hitler, or supports his actions. Benoit is a part of wrestling history, I don't blame WWE for largely erasing him from their archives, or never mentioning him on TV, but I will on occasion have to bring his name up in order for my lists to be as complete as they can be. Furthermore, when I have to discuss him I will continue to only discuss him in the context of what I am writing. Just because I don't bring up the fact that he's a piece of shit wife and child killer does not mean I like or respect him, or even that I get any enjoyment from watching any of his matches.
There are no Honorable Mentions this week, because I had a hard enough time coming up with ten moves. Putting these in order was pretty difficult too.
The Top Ten Knockout Holds
I really feel that this goes without saying, but I'm going to say this anyway because there might be a few impressionable minds reading the column:
WARNING!
Even though wrestling is staged, most of the holds described in this column are REAL holds that involve cutting off the blood supply to the brain, or the oxygen to the lungs. This can cause serious and permanent damage, and in some cases even death. DO NOT be an idiot and try these holds on ANYONE or even YOURSELF. I, and 411mania take absolutely no responsibility if you decide to try one of these moves and injure another person or yourself.
X
Koji Clutch
Used famously by: Koji Kanemoto, Christopher Daniels
The Koji Clutch gives the Mandible Claw a run for its money in regards to the most unusual hold on this list. Like most of the holds the focus of it is to cut off the blood supply to the victim's brain. It is one of two entries on this list that is often setup by a high impact slam in this case, the STO. The STO is set up similarly to the Rock Bottom. The attacker is facing his opponent, gets his right shoulder under the right arm of his opponent and clasps the opponent's left shoulder with his (the attacker's) right hand. Once in position the attacker falls backwards, pulling the victim chest first toward the mat, jarring his neck and knocking the wind out of him. Once on the mat the entire hold can be applied almost instantly. The attacker keeps his right arm in the position it was in during the set up for the STO, and quickly swings his right leg onto the victim's back, and swings his left leg over the victim's face and hooks the victim's forehead or face with the back of his (the attacker's) knee (between the hamstring and calf). Almost at the same time, with his left hand, the attacker reaches over the back of the victim's neck and his own (the attacker's) left leg, and clasps his (the attacker's) right hand. The reason for the attacker encircling his left leg with his arms is that it makes it much harder for the victim push the attacker's left leg off of his face, or to simply slip under the leg. Once locked in the attacker pushes back the victim's head with his left leg, and pulls the victim (at his neck) toward the mat with his hands. This action hyperextends the victim's neck and the position of the attacker's arms allows him to squeeze the victim's neck, putting pressure on the victim's left carotid artery. Additionally the weight of the attacker's right leg makes it hard for the victim to simply rise out of the hold.
The Koji Clutch was invented by Japanese wrestler Koji Kanemoto. Like I've written before, I don't really watch Japanese wrestling, but Kanemoto won several IWGP Titles while using the hold as his finisher. In American wrestling, Christopher Daniels has used the hold to measured success, winning several titles in independent and Japanese wrestling promotions, and winning three X Division and six Tag Team Titles in TNA. Because the move hasn't resulted in many high profile victories in the United States the move comes in at number ten on my list.
IX
Tongan Death Grip
Used famously by: Meng/Haku
Did you guys forget about this one? I almost did! The Tongan Death grip was such a deadly move that it has a wine named after it. In all seriousness, the Tongan Death Grip is, if applied correctly a potentially lethal maneuver. There is not much to the move, but there is a degree of technique. Usually the victim is slightly dazed before the attacker applies the move, so that its application catches the victim off guard. Because the move could easily slip into or be mistaken for a chokehold the attacker must prepare his grip accordingly prior to executing the move. Typically this involves the attacker bending his hand back at the wrist, pointing his thumb outward from his palm and bending his first two fingers at, not the first, but second knuckle. The ring and pinky fingers can be used, but aren't necessary. After the grip is prepared the attacker applies the hold by striking or jabbing at his opponent's neck (which is quite the stunning attack in its own right) and grabbing the fleshy part where the neck transitions into the jaw, seizing nerves and tendons on both sides of the trachea. Obviously the attacker's grip has to be extremely strong otherwise the hold could be easily broken. As a result, the attacker usually drives his opponent onto his back. By applying such a high degree pressure on the victim's nerves the attacker causes him a high level of pain. However, the deadly part of the Tongan Death Grip is that while grasping the victims neck the attacker, aside from causing him pain, is pinching off the carotid artery, slowing and in some cases stopping the blood flow to the victim's brain, causing him to pass out. This can result in a sleeper-type victory, or if the opponent is on his back a pinfall.
The Tongan Death Grip is applied at 7:55
Tonga Fifita, started using the move as his primary finisher as Meng in WCW. Although he was pushed as a tough man, monster of a wrestler, and earned quick and decisive victories over jobbers and lower undercard wrestlers, his success was pretty limited when it came to high profile matches and feuds. In fact, the only major title he won after adopting the hold as his finisher was the WCW Hardcore Title. No one ever defeated him for the title, because shortly after winning it Meng jumped ship to the WWF. WCW decided not to revive the title. The stories of Meng/Haku/Tonga outside of the ring are almost legendary. Bad News Brown, Bobby Heenan, The Barbarian, and Goldberg have all said (in one way or another) that Tonga is/was the toughest man they know. Nevertheless, due to Tonga's limited in-ring success, and the fact that I couldn't find any other wrestlers who used the hold on a regular basis, the Tongan Death Grip, while badass, ends up being pretty low on the list.
VIII
Mandible Claw
Used famously by: Mick Foley (primarily as Mankind), and Sam Sheppard.
I really hemmed and hawed over putting this move on the list, because it's on the boarder line of a submission move and a move that is designed to make it's victim pass out. Anyway, I decided to include it because Mick Foley has won numerous matches using the hold, and most of the victories resulted from the victim passing out as opposed to giving up. Although it looks brutal and barbaric, the move, in its inception is quite technical. The aggressor applies the hold by sliding two fingers, usually the middle and ring fingers, into his opponent's mouth and forcing them under the tongue, connecting with the spongy tissue. Then the attacker pushes his thumb into the soft area under the jaw, effectively clasping his hand around his opponent's mandible. Once locked in the hold causes severe and sometimes (in kayfabe) paralyzing pain, causing the opponent to either submit or to be rendered incapacitated long enough to score a pin fall. According to Mankind the hold can cause blinding pain and cause the victim to pass out. While it would seem like an easy move to counter, by either biting the fingers or by kicking or punching the attacker, these counters can be explained away by the simple fact that if someone has another person by the jaw they can pretty much control him and drag him around. Mankind also claimed that hold paralyzed the jaw, preventing the biting.
The history behind the move is pretty interesting. Dr. Sam Sheppard was an osteopathic physician who was convicted for murdering his pregnant wife in an incredibly high-profile court case. Sheppard maintained that he was innocent and that another man attacked him and his wife. After serving nearly ten years he earned a retrial and was acquitted when new evidence was presented. The whole story supposedly inspired the creators of the series and film The Fugitive. Anyway, even though he was acquitted many people still thought he was guilty, so one of the things he did to make some money was professional wrestling. He called himself "The Killer," and used the Mandibular Nerve Pinch as his finishing hold. Many years later Mick Foley was looking for a new finishing move that would be easier on his body than his dive from the ring apron on to the floor. Jim Cornette told Foley Sheppard's story and he liked the idea, eventually incorporating the move into his Mankind character. As Mankind he earned a key victory over The Undertaker at the 1996 King of the Ring using the hold. He earned several other victories over him and the hold was a key part of his victory. As the Mankind character evolved the Mandible Claw's initial power seemed to fade, but the hold remained and still is a significant part of his repertoire. Since adopting the hold Foley captured several WWF Tag Team Titles with various partners and three short reigns as WWF Champion. More recently in TNA Foley has found success, winning both the TNA World Title and the Legend's Title.
VII
Anaconda Vise
Used famously by: CM Punk
The Anaconda Vise has its roots in Brazilian Ju-jitsu, and like the Koji Clutch the move is frequently and easily set up by a high impact maneuver. The setup to the slam is very similar to the setup to the Rock Bottom. The attacker is facing his opponent, gets his right shoulder under the right arm of his opponent and clasps the opponent's left shoulder with his (the attacker's) right hand. Once in position the attacker uses his left hand to help him lift his opponent off his feet and drives the victim back first onto the mat. The attacker comes down with him and hangs on to the hold he applied during the set up to the slam. Now the opponent has had the wind knocked out of him, and is more susceptible to the hold. Having hung on to the victim, the attacker shifts his right arm around the neck of the victim and moves his legs out to the side. With his left arm the attacker bends the victims right arm into a keylock position and grabs the victim's right wrist with his (the attacker's) right hand. Then the attacker laces his left hand through the opening between the victim's right upper and lower arm and grabs his own wrist. The hold is now locked in, and the attacker pulls the victims head toward him. This strains the victim's right arm, but more importantly compresses the left side of the victim's neck, squeezing the carotid artery, slowing the blood flow to the brain. Unlike most of the other sleeper like maneuvers on this list the Anaconda Vise really only compresses one side of the victim's neck making the move less effective as a knockout hold. However, the move, once it has been properly applied is very difficult to escape. Even if the victim makes it to his feet the attacker can easily slam him back down to the mat.
CM Punk might just be the American wrestler who has found the most success with the Anaconda Vise (he was the only one I found that actually uses the hold). It was one of his primary finishing holds on the independent circuits and in Ring of Honor, and he used the hold during his first year in WWE's ECW. Using it helped Punk win and retain numerous titles including the ROH World Title, and the ECW Title. Even though Punk is a three time World Heavyweight Champion and a former Intercontinental Champion he has limited his use of the move. Perhaps it will make an appearance at Breaking Point and may result in a knock out victory for him over the Undertaker.
VI
Sleeper Hold
Used famously by: Ed "The Strangler" Lewis, Vern Gagne, Nick Bockwinkel, Pat Patterson, Roddy Piper, Brutus Beefcake, Adrian Adonis, and countless more.
There are numerous variations of the sleeper hold, many of which are discussed elsewhere in this column. The version of the sleeper I'm writing about here is the basic sleeper with very few modifications. Ed "The Strangler" Lewis is said to have invented the sleeper hold, but I imagine that that could be up for debate. The basic version of the sleeper is a pretty rudimentary hold, and usually begins with the attacker behind his (usually dazed) opponent, or as an attack off of a rope rebound. With his right arm, the attacker reaches around the victim's neck, lodging it in the crook of his arm. Then he takes his left hand and slaps it on to the top of the victim's head. The hold is fully locked in when the attackers right hand clasps on to his left bicep, making the hold harder to break. Once locked in the attacker pushes the victim's head to the right, driving the right side of the victim's neck into the attacker's upper right arm. At the same time, the attacker squeezes the victim's neck in the crook of his right arm driving the bone of the forearm into the left side of the victim's neck. The hold is often augmented by the attacker leaping on to the back of the victim causing more pressure and making the hold harder to escape. Although the sleeper resembles a chokehold, it is not. By squeezing the victim's neck with his right arm, the attacker, puts pressure on the victim's carotid arteries, slowing the flow of blood to the victim's brain, causing them to eventually pass out; the victim, however, can still breathe while in the hold. Because the arm is a fairly wide surface, the sleeper does not have the same level of precision that some other knockout holds do. Therefore it can take a few minutes for the victim to feel the full effects. Furthermore, it seems as though when the victim slumps down in the hold the amount of (kayfabe) leverage the attacker can apply is lessened. This may account for all of those wrestlers that are able to keep their arms from dropping a third time.
The sleeper hold has earned wrestlers very few victories in recent years. However at one time it was one of the most feared holds in wrestling. Ed Lewis, the innovator of the hold won the World Championship five times. Vern Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel were multiple time AWA Champions and they feuded over who had the better sleeper hold. Brutus Beefcake found great success using the hold, as did Adrian Adonis. Roddy Piper preferred also to use the hold as his finisher and he even forced Hulk Hogan to pass out to it in a non-title match at the 1996 Starcade. Hundreds of wrestlers throughout the years have used the sleeper to finish off their opponents, making it an essential part of this list, but the hold is hurt due to all of the (arguably) superior versions of it and because it rarely scores a victory anymore.
In many ways differentiating this hold from the sleeper seems kind of silly, as it is applied in almost exactly the same way. The main difference is that the rear naked choke is more of a choke than a move that slows the blood flow to the brain. As I wrote, the application of the hold is identical to the sleeper in every way but two. The attacker stands behind the victim and wraps his right arm around the victim's neck. The attacker then takes his left arm, maneuvers it behind the victims head and grabs his (the attacker's) right shoulder, or places his hand on the back of the victim's head. The hold is fully locked in when the attackers right hand grips on to his left arm, making the hold harder to break. The main difference between the choke and the sleeper is, in the sleeper hold the right bicep and forearm of the attacker squeeze the carotid arteries; in the choke the forearm simply compresses the victim's trachea, and literally chokes him out. There maybe some pressure on the carotids, but most of the pressure is directly on the windpipe, meaning the hold deprives the victim of air, not of blood to the brain. After the hold is applied the attacker usually falls backwards and augments the move with a body scissors which makes the hold harder to escape and restricts the breathing of the victim. If the victim does not tap out in time, his breathing will be compromised enough that he will pass out. I'm still not sure how the move is legal in pro-wrestling. Let's ask the expert him self…
I guess he told me. Now who am I to argue with Samoa Joe? I'm not a wrestler, but what Joe described sounds like a sleeper hold to me, not a Coquina Clutch to me. Nevertheless, Joe rarely applies the Rear Naked choke the way he illustrated in that video here's his version of the Rear Naked Choke…
The forearm is clearly over the throat in that video, making it an air choke, not a blood choke. Again, what the hell do I know, Samoa Joe is a wrestler I'm not. Nevertheless, the minor differences in the application of the hold make me comfortable enough to refer to it as a different hold than the sleeper hold. Samoa Joe has earned a significant number of victories "choking bitches out." The move has helped him win the ROH World Title, the TNA X Division Title, and the TNA World Title.
IV
Tazmission
Used famously by: Taz, Samoa Joe, Frankie Kazarian
The Tazmission is really a Judo hold called Kataha Jime, and was introduced to the wrestling world by Taz near the end of 1995. The introduction of the hold brought the concept of "tapping out" as opposed to responding to the referee's questions to wrestling. The move is set up with the attacker standing behind a standing opponent. The first part of the move consists of the attacker reaching under the victim's left arm with his (the attacker's) left arm and locking in a half-nelson. Then, with his right arm, the attacker reaches over his victim's neck. Because Judo is about leverage, the original hold consists of the attacker's right hand grabbing the left lapel of the victim's judogi to assist in the choke. Because wrestlers rarely ware any sort of top, the applier of the Tazmission has to slightly modify the hold. Instead of grabbing the neck, or simply choking out the victim with a forearm, the Tazmission uses the back of the attacker's right wrist or hand to put pressure on the victim's trachea and carotid artery. This angle allows for a surprising amount of highly concentrated leverage. Once both of the attacker's arms are in place, it is simply a matter of squeezing the victim's neck, which cuts of the blood supply to the brain, and restricts breathing. The hold is often accompanied with a body scissors, which brings the victim to the mat, makes the hold harder to escape, and further restricts breathing. The hold is very difficult to escape due to the victim's inability to effectively use his left arm, and because of the body scissors, leaving him little choice but to tap out, or pass out.
Obviously you can't write about the Tazmission with out writing about Taz. Taz's ECW career skyrocketed after adopting the hold as his finishing move. Taz won the ECW TV Title on two occasions, and when he was unable to get a shot at Shane Douglas's ECW Title he created his own, FTW ECW World Title, and eventually unified that title with the ECW Title. Eventually Taz made his way to the WWF, and handed Kurt Angle his first loss via Tazmission. Tazz would win the ECW Title a second time when he defeated WCW's Mike Awesome for the title. Tazz's in ring career in the WWF was less than stellar, but he managed to earn a number of victories using the hold. Samoa Joe started using a variation of the move recently. I ranked this above the Rear Naked Choke, because I maintain that the choke is choke (and should be illegal), the Tazmission is a compression hold.
III
Cobra Clutch/Million Dollar Dream
Used famously by: Sgt. Slaughter, Ted DiBiase, Steve Austin, Corporal Kirschner, Steve Corino.
Although the moves are identical it always seemed like Sgt. Slaughter's version of the hold was more of a submission hold, and DiBiase's version of the hold was more of a sleeper, but Slaughter explains that in the video. The Cobra Clutch starts with the attacker lurking behind his victim. With his right arm, the attacker reaches over the victim's right shoulder, grabs the victim's left arm at the wrist and pulls it up to the right side of the victim's neck. Once the attacker has a good grip he laces his left arm up through the space between the victim's body and the victim's left arm and places his (the attacker's) left hand on the back of the victim's neck, essentially applying a half-nelson. If the attacker wants to really lock in the hold he can grip his right forearm or bicep with his left hand. Either way, the attacker then pulls the victim's left arm into the right side of his neck. This act of pulling also forces the attacker's left forearm into the left side of the victim's neck, the attacker can add to this by simply driving his forearm into the neck. Once applied the hold squeezes the carotid artery and slows the flow of blood to the victim's brain. Although, more pressure is applied to the left side of the victims neck than the right, both arteries get compressed, thus if the victim doesn't tap-out, he will pass out. While the standard sleeper may distribute the pressure on the neck more evenly, the Cobra Clutch gives the applier more control over the victim thanks to both the half-nelson and the arm clutch.
Sgt. Slaughter built a pretty successful career for himself, winning several regional championships, and used the Cobra Clutch as his finishing hold of choice throughout most of it. Interestingly enough he abandoned the hold in favor of the Camel Clutch during his Iraqi sympathizer phase, and his reign as WWF Champion. Although Ted DiBiase didn't win much in the way of titles he was one of the WWF's biggest villains of the 1980s and early 90s and used the Million Dollar Dream to stay near the top of the card. In the mid 1990s DiBiase brought in Steve Austin as his handpicked Million Dollar Champion, and had him use the Million Dollar Dream for his finisher. For the remainder of his career Austin would occasionally pull the Dream out of his bag of tricks, but doing so once cost him a match against Bret Hart, who managed to flip the move into a pin.
II
Gogoplata
Used famously by: The Undertaker
In early 2008 the Undertaker, who is reportedly a big MMA fan, started using a potentially lethal submission hold to finish off some of his opponents, as opposed to his Tombstone Piledriver. Announcers seemed to have no idea what to call the hold and eventually settled on the gimmicky name "Hells Gate." In reality the move is known as the Gogoplata, and has its roots in Judo. Like many of the other Judo to wrestling moves on this list, some modifications have been made. The move doesn't have to start this way, it can be applied defensively, but when applied as an offensive maneuver the move usually starts with the victim on his back and the attacker standing on the victim's right hand side. The attacker grabs the victim's left arm and straddles it while facing away from him. With his right hand the attacker controls the victim's left arm, bends over and grabs the victim's right arm with his (the attacker's) left hand. The attacker drops down on his left knee and rolls onto his back taking the victim with him. The attacker then maneuvers his right leg over the victim's left arm (that is still controlled) and jockeys his leg under the victim's chin. The attacker then releases his grip on the victim's arms (the left arm is now trapped under the attacker's right leg) and wraps his hands around the head of the victim pulling it down. At the same time the attacker pushes his right leg up into the throat of the victim, choking him. Finally the attacker places his left leg on top of victim's shoulder. This helps the attacker push the victim down and hooks around the attacker's left foot, preventing the hold from slipping. Once applied the hold deprives the victim of air and causes the victim to either submit or pass out due to lack of oxygen. There is one glaring problem with the hold in regards to its use in a wrestling match, and that is that the applier's shoulders are frequently on the mat when the hold is locked in. There really is no reason why the referee shouldn't count the applier's shoulders down, but for whatever reason they usually don't.
Although the move has been a part of pro wrestling for only a few years it has had a tremendous impact. When the Undertaker first started using the hold as his submission hold of choice, his opponents sold his application of it to the extent that they would spit blood. Only three months after its introduction the Undertaker used the hold to finish off Edge in the main event of WrestleMania XXIV and win the World Heavyweight Championship. A few weeks later, then General Manager of SmackDown, Vicky Guerrero banned the move, calling it an illegal choke hold, and stripped the Undertaker of the World Title because he used the hold to win it. However, after his sabbatical the Undertaker returned and continued to use the hold incurring no penalties. Since that time the Undertaker has racked up more than a few wins using the hold. The only reason the hold is at number two instead of one is because the attacker should be counted down half the time, and because chokes are illegal in wrestling, I'm not sure why this one isn't.
I
Dragon Sleeper
Used famously by: Ultimo Dragon, Tatsumi Fujinami, Jamie Nobel, The Undertaker, Low-Ki
Visually the Dragon Sleeper looks to be one of the more painful maneuvers on this list, making it potentially both a submission hold and a knockout hold. The move usually starts with the attacker standing behind and slightly to the right of the victim who is sitting (the victim can be standing). With his left arm the attacker reaches over the right shoulder of the victim and wraps his arm around the victim's neck, locking him in an inverted facelock. Then, the attacker threads his right arm between the victim's body and right arm, and reaches around to the victim's back, where he links his two hands together. By hooking his opponent's right arm in that fashion the attacker renders it useless in the victim's struggle to free himself. Now the hold is locked in and the attacker simultaneously wrenches back on the victim's head and drives his left knee into the victims back. This action hyper extends the neck and spine causing a significant amount of pain, and may result in the victim's submission. If the pain doesn't get him the sleeper will, because as the attacker is pulling back he is also squeezing the victim's neck between his left arm and his body, compressing the victim's carotid arteries, slowing the blood flow to the brain. If that wasn't enough, the bent-backwards position of the victim's body makes it difficult for him to breathe.
Part of what makes this move so effective is it can be applied very quickly and is very hard to escape. Because it's so visually impressive I have to wonder why it isn't used more in American wrestling. Without a doubt Ultimo Dragon is the wrestler who has used the move to the greatest success in American wrestling promotions, and perhaps the most successful wrestler world-wide to use the hold as his finishing maneuver. During his heyday Dragon simultaneously held the J-Crown (eight junior/light heavyweight titles), the WCW Cruiserweight Title, the NWA Middleweight Title, and one third of the WAR Six-Man Titles, making him the only wrestler to have ever held eleven different titles at the same time. He also won the WCW Television Title twice. For a while, during his biker phase the Undertaker used the Dragon Sleeper as his submission hold of choice. The reason this move is number one is because it has all of the attributes of a great hold: it's quick and easy to apply; it requires very little effort on the part of the attacker, yet is very difficult to escape; it's painful for the victim, and it can make him pass out.
Screw the Death Grip wine, I went to that site and found out they sell a Camel Clutch Cabernet.
Posted By: Deathpool (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:37 PM
The Crossface should totally be on this list over the gogoplata. In fact, i'm not even sure Taker has the 'plata applied right on that picture; plus how many wins does he get via submission? Yes, Benoit is a murderer; but that crossface was bad ass and should totally make the list.
Posted By: yo (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:48 PM
I'd like to hold a knockout.........
Posted By: Puns (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Armbar?
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Anaconda Vise is a great hold. I think if Punk brought it back to his moveset currently, it would make him even more of a heel than what he is right now.
Posted By: IWC Member #901001 (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Sasketchewan Spinning Nervehold?
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Hell Yeah Dragon Sleeper number #1
Posted By: Guest#4823 (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 11:17 PM
As an MMA fan who's seen more than a few real gogoplatas applied in fights and grappling tournaments (Shinya Aoki and Nick Diaz are the most famous users of it), Undertaker's gogo looks really silly. But it's cool that he's incorporated it as one of his finishing moves, he's a pretty big MMA fan himself.
Posted By: Guest#5612 (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 11:24 PM
How was my Moss Covered, 3-Handled Family Cradenzel overlooked on this list? It was devastating...
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 11:30 PM
I'm pretty sure nobody ever passed out from the Anaconda Vice - it was always tapouts.
Posted By: ausjimmy (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 11:31 PM
The Anaconda Vise does not have roots in BJJ. It is a fictitous BJJ move with no legitimate effectiveness to it. Choke holds are stupid to include because choke holds are supposed to be illegal. As you so usually ignore my comments, once again here is the difference in the application of a sleeperhold, and a chokehold, as demonstrated by HOFer Nick Bockwinkel. Maybe you'll learn something this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcA83NkEUo
Posted By: Patrick Mullin (Registered) on September 06, 2009 at 11:37 PM
Hiroyoshi Tenzan, one of the biggest Japanese stars of the last two decades invented the Anaconda Vice...
Posted By: Guest#5950 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Can't argue with #1. I used to love making my opponent tap with Ultimo Dragon in WCW/nWo Revenge
"Anaconda Vise is a great hold. I think if Punk brought it back to his moveset currently, it would make him even more of a heel than what he is right now."
You'll see it at the PPV against the Undertaker
Posted By: TWilliams (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:03 AM
I know I've written this before but geez, the vice is a glorified top wrist lock that anybody could escape with a simple eye rake. (And come on, in ECW? I know it's the new version of ECW and all but still he should be getting his eyes gouged out for his troubles) I won't be surprised if he starts using a collar and elbow as a finisher and people start gushing about how awesome of a finisher it is at this point.
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:10 AM
How was my Moss Covered, 3-Handled Family Cradenzel overlooked on this list? It was devastating...
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 06, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Cause its not yours you twirp. Its not a submission either. Its a suplex
Posted By: Perry Saturn from I am Located (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:10 AM
The Undertaker's Gogoplata was number 2? no way, in MMA, I would agree with it being that high, but Taker doesn't use that move nearly enough to be that high on the list. Plus, I dont really understand the list....it seems like by "KO hold" you mean a sleeper or choke, is that it?
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:14 AM
I heard Chris Benoit killed his wife and son, and then himself, so we're not supposed to talk about him anymore. This top 10 list confirms this.
Posted By: Sink (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Yay! The Dragon Sleeper makes my pants happy. I've found when using the hold, applying a body scissors is effective too.
Posted By: Nice work (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:23 AM
Plus, I dont really understand the list....it seems like by "KO hold" you mean a sleeper or choke, is that it?
---------------------------------
I guess that's what he means.(You're right, the terminology isn't good. I mean most finishers "knock out" the opponent so they could all be KO moves.)
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:26 AM
#7 Arm Bar
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:42 AM
I know the Benoit discussion should technically be over, but I'm disappointed in your little addition in there about how you felt metaphorically punched in the face by Benoit's actions and he should have considered how his fans would feel. Of all the reasons to NOT kill one's own family, the feelings of the fans seems pretty petty. I know that you were expressing your feelings as a former Benoit fan, but that just didn't sound right.
Posted By: Gospel X (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:01 AM
To both Yo and Sink:
I wrote about the Crippler Crossface last week, it was number 4 on my list of submission moves. As far as my stance on referring to Chris Benoit, I'll direct you to the top of the page. I wrote three paragraphs about that very issue.
Posted By: JohnPeters (Registered) on September 07, 2009 at 01:20 AM
I'm surprised that Triple H's use of the sleeper hold in 2003 wasn't mentioned. I remember him actually gaining victories off of it. I know he beat Jeff Hardy using it, but I can't remember anyone else he beat, but I swear this happened.
Posted By: Shylo Elliott (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:30 AM
I don't know why people think the gogoplata has Undertaker's shoulders down. It doesn't
The person who uses that hold has both shoulders off the mat while they are pulling the persons head down.
A common mistake in wrestling is that when a wrestler's back is on the mat he is down for the count. That is not the case as the referee needs to make sure his shoulders are down.
In order for the Undertaker's shoulders to be down for the gogoplata the wrestler in the hold will need to raise himself to a standing or semi-standing position which would angle Undertaker's shoulders down on the mat.
However, when you are being choked out by the deadman that is not an easy thing to do. And so far, no one has done it.
Posted By: Guest#8125 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:36 AM
To both Yo and Sink:
I wrote about the Crippler Crossface last week, it was number 4 on my list of submission moves. As far as my stance on referring to Chris Benoit, I'll direct you to the top of the page. I wrote three paragraphs about that very issue.
Posted By: JohnPeters (Registered) on September 07, 2009 at 01:20 AM
i agree that beniot as a person was a cowardly piece of shit for doing what he did
but i can actually seperate the two and have beliefs on a man as a wrestler and have a different opinion on him as a person and his actions outside the ring
i loved benoit as a wrestler.. i even enjoyed some of his work in japan
but benoit as a person.. i dont think you could of said it any better
Posted By: baxter (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:55 AM
I'm sorry, but Undertaker's Gogoplata shouldn't even be on the list. It's a triangle choke that isn't even done correctly. We all know Taker is a huge huge fan of MMA, but come on. Atleast put a move on the list that's done properly. The Triangle choke is done by wrapping one leg around the neck and grabbing onto it with your arm, then placing the other leg over the ankle of the foot wrapped around the neck, creating a sort of figure 4 hold. This is called "The Rubber Guard". Then you apply pressure with the opponent's own arm to cut off circulation, thus the Triangle Choke.
Posted By: David (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:22 AM
while I am STILL sickened by what happened in atlanta, a big part of me has realized that Chris Benoit was sick and therefore NOT a monster who sought to murder his family. the disease he had was dementia, the same thing that made my once wonderful and sweey grandparents two strangers who swore, threw things and broke the hearts of their children with actions that we couldn't explain or understand. the doctor explained the disease was twisting their reality and was not the actions of a healthy person. the dementia destroyed their brains, and when they passed away, we were all relived to see their suffering (and actions that hurt us) end. there have been several significant cases of athletes who experience these conditions as a reult of abuse and/or multiple concussions. NFL player Justin Strelzyk (former Steeler) had an incident occur that caused him to freak out, lose his mind (paranoia, etc) and he pulled a gun on police. He was killed in the incident and later his condition was revealed to the media who had heretofore labelled him as an out-of-control monster. Chris Benoit had the brain of an 85 yr old alzheimer's patient. years of ring abuse, chair shots and flying headbuts destroyed him from the inside out, and warped his perception of reality. I may still weep for the benoit family, but I KNOW that his actions were not like those of OJ, his were the result of illness. This fact allows me to still consider him one of the greats. Sadly, it also makes me realize the size, scope, impact and pain of this tragedy.
Posted By: educated savage (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:24 AM
"The forearm is clearly over the throat in that video, making it an air choke, not a blood choke. Again, what the hell do I know, Samoa Joe is a wrestler I'm not"
There's actually a simple explanation for this one, when you put the hold in even though it's across the throat in clamps down on the caryatid arteries on the sides of your neck as opposed to clamping the windpipe in the front. It's supposed to be a rear naked choke, and as a BJJ practitioner, believe me it's a blood choke.
Posted By: Anthony (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:38 AM
dragon sleeper at #1 > rest of list.
Posted By: 16s (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:56 AM
Do you mouth breathers not understand the extent of brain trauma that we are talking about with Benoit? He is as responsible for his actions as Verne Gagne is.
Posted By: MannyFresh (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 03:19 AM
"Furthermore, it seems as though when the victim slumps down in the hold the amount of (kayfabe) leverage the attacker can apply is lessened. This may account for all of those wrestlers that are able to keep their arms from dropping a third time."
Great line brother!!
Posted By: He's Hulkin Up! (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 03:58 AM
"The Anaconda Vise does not have roots in BJJ. It is a fictitous BJJ move with no legitimate effectiveness to it."
Do you know what an arm triangle is?
Posted By: Anthony (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:15 AM
Big Show used the Cobra Clutch quite a bit during his ECW run. It generally set up into a slam but he also held the move to gain submissions as I recall.
Posted By: Pete (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:50 AM
RE Benoit: wasn't it proven via the autopsy that years of concussions had beaten Benoit's brain to the equivalent of a long-time dementia patient, ergo, he theoretically would have had little-to-no control over his actions?
God people, just move on already.
Posted By: AngryTas (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 05:27 AM
I never understood the effectiveness of a the sleeper if it's not applied as a choke hold? Remember Strangler Lewis was first using it so he must have been strangling his opponants, right. If one arm is not on the neck, then how does it work?
Posted By: Joe K (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 05:44 AM
Am I the only person who thinks what Chris Benoit did to his son was awesome? He was trying to bond with him and teach him some holds and the little brat couldn't "man up" and take it, so he went and died. Boo-freaking-hoo.
I only wish I had a son so I can emulate my new hero, Chris Benoit.
Posted By: Ser Drake (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 06:25 AM
It is the nmost rediculous thing in the world to suggest that Benoit used the crossface on his son. Absolutely stupid. How can you write that and bot laught at yourself?
Posted By: JLo (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:15 AM
If the Cripple Crossface isn't in this I'm not going to even read this article in full. Yes, what Chris did was unforgivable but that shouldn't effect a WRESTLING poll.
Posted By: Guest#2084 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:24 AM
It's not an STO that sets up the koji clucth, it's a flatliner
Posted By: Guest#0327 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:33 AM
The Anaconda Vise does not have roots in BJJ. It is a fictitous BJJ move with no legitimate effectiveness to it. Choke holds are stupid to include because choke holds are supposed to be illegal. As you so usually ignore my comments, once again here is the difference in the application of a sleeperhold, and a chokehold, as demonstrated by HOFer Nick Bockwinkel. Maybe you'll learn something this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcA83NkEUo
Posted By: Patrick Mullin (Registered) on September 06, 2009 at 11:37 PM
It is a BJJ hold, it's not a choke but a compression hold.
Once it's locked in, the opponent moves in any direction the move compresses further, so any attempts to fight out of it just cause the victim more pain.
Posted By: island jiu jitsu (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:10 AM
I don't want to get involved in a debate about Chris Benoit, but the big fact that everybody seems to forget is...THE MAN WAS NOT WELL. HE WAS ILL. HIS BRAIN WAS FUCKED UP, AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!!
Now I understand that is of little solace to Nancy and Daniel, but I wish people would stop assuming he was so evil he made Lucifer look like the Pope.
The man needed pity, not contempt.
Just my opinion.
Posted By: Odin (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:26 AM
I agree on the Benoit issue; everyone should ignore and stop talking about mental illnesses and mentally ill people as much as humanly possible.
Or we could just all be adults and realize that what happened to the Benoit family happens all the time, more than we care to admit, and single out Benoit because he is famous.
Have we stopped watching Kurt Angle yet? He's done and said quite a few disturbing things, but does it make his matches less watchable? No.
Posted By: Cactus (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:48 AM
I've never watched Koji Kanemoto won the title by Koji Clutch.
Posted By: Ichiro Fujita (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 09:10 AM
What about my side headlock?? It not only puts opponents to sleep but the crowd as well.
Posted By: Randell K. Orton (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 10:32 AM
So... many... dumb... illiterate... people.... good god.
Posted By: Guest#2371 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 10:38 AM
PIPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: FUZEY (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Great list. I completely agree with your comments on Chris Benoit, being a wrestling fan for 40 years. His final act erased all the good that he did for this sport. He let many young fans down and I find this to be cowardice and self-centered. Given all the crappy sport and entertainment lists to come out recently, I find yours to be the most accurate. As a fan, I commend you.
Keep up the fine work!
Posted By: bsucca (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 11:35 AM
The Lion Tamer, Ankle Lock, Butterfly submission, the gory special...wow your fuckin' up dude...the Sharpshooter...WTF is your deal?
Posted By: The X-Factor_2324 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Kimura or cross-faced chicken-wing anyone?
Posted By: ScottishDragon (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Question: in the Cobra Clutch video, is that Tony Anthony the same one who wrestled as TL Hopper in the WWF, who also was known as The Dirty White Boy?
Posted By: mr_wonderful (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Have we stopped watching Kurt Angle yet? He's done and said quite a few disturbing things, but does it make his matches less watchable? No.
Posted By: Cactus (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:48 AM
If he kills some kids I bet people will stop watching his matches. And I bet they won't seem nearly so entertaining anymore. Good Lord, you are an idiotic piece of shit.
Posted By: Cactus fucks kids (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 12:51 PM
What Benoit has done has been talked about again and again. Benoit's brain condition has been talked about again and again(to a lesser extent). What I want to talk about is the WWE's role in this.
You see, WWE removing every artifact and appreance of Benoit from all of their programs would be acceptable IF he was really a monster. But studies have shown that his brain was not well, and that his actions were not of a sane man. WWE's continued blacklisting of Benoit seems more like away to cover their own tracks in this. If WWE was doing their job, Benoit's brain would have not gotten that bad, I don't believe. They should have been doing a better job evaluating their wrestlers mental and physical health. But by blacklisting Benoit from all WWE programming, its a way to sweep under the rug the fact that at least some of this is their fault.
Also, by sweeping it under the rug, WWE is not forced to change. Most people(not the IWC, of course) have forgotten about Benoit already, so there is no need to pursue changes in WWE's schedule, health exams, whatever. Which to me is deplorable on the part of WWE.
Historians have always said that "History will repeat itself", and with the course that WWE has taken with the Benoit issue, that history is bound to happen again sooner than later.
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:47 PM
Arn Anderson also testified to Meng's toughness and fighting skills, saying he was the one guy who could beat up anyone else in the business in a shoot.
Posted By: the ghost of Johnny Valentine (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 01:58 PM
Why is it that nobody seems to remember that benoit had severe brain damage which was a huge factor in his horrible actions? Does that mean we should all forget the tragedy? No, but it also should maybe mean we should look a little deeper into the reasons why he snapped. I really dont believe that the man who killed his wife and child was the same man who we watched preform on our screens, but then again i understand a thing or two about brain damage and what that does to a person.
Posted By: Guest#8790 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:03 PM
Wheres the chicken wing?? Bob Backlund's finisher was great a friend of mine used it in a fight at work recenty it worked!!
Posted By: Jimbo jones (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:20 PM
i dont agree with your comments on the crossface or benoit.........im tired of people being afraid to mention him.......and im tired of all the hate comments .......sure hes a evil man that commited a unspeakable act....but that dosent change anything about his long and excellent career......should i forget everything???what about the opponets in his matches.......benoit was part of some of the best matches in pro wrestling........should i hate those matches now????like wmXX should we forget shawn michales and hhh and benoit put on a classic triple threat for the title???.......i think its pretty hard to talk about some things is wrestling without his name coming up...........and now to the crossface..........reguardless of how he held the arm its still an awesome move...... and im sure the crossface has had more success than have the moves on the list...........
Posted By: Guest#8574 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:27 PM
Kudos to the Dragon Sleeper as number one. Probably my personal favorite head/neck submission type movie, and second overall submision to only the Texas Cloverleaf.
You left off that the Big Show has used the Cobra Clutch on occasion, in the fashion that Sgt. Slaughter used it.
Posted By: G-Walla (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 02:55 PM
The Sharpshooter should have been number 1, if for nothing else, to piss off the smart marks. Bret Hart did knock out Austin with the move, so I would think that it qualifies. It would have been a nice swerve.
Posted By: Squid Vicious (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 03:05 PM
I don't like the Gogoplata either I understand why Taker doesn't apply it the correct way but it looks way too fake. I rather he do a triangle choke than try a Gogoplata.
Posted By: D-Man (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 03:08 PM
chokes holds are for peeps who cant win wit pwer. Hulkster's big boot n lg drop are tha bst. Hulkster would git out ov all thees moves no sweat. ur all dum for sayin othrweyes
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 03:11 PM
Yeah, so.... armbar?
Posted By: Chris Jericho (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:06 PM
Years ago, in the states, a teenager killed his parents, then called the police sobbing about how he loved them and how he "can't get the voices out of my head".
He was diagnosed with schizophrenia, clearly not in control of his actions.
The court showed no leniency and sentenced him to over 100 years in prison.
Yet, no one views him as a monster or one of Satan's disciples.
So if that kid can be forgiven by us for a horrible act against his family, why can't Benoit?
Posted By: COTD (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:09 PM
No Vulcan nerve pinch?
Your list is teh suxors and you shood die!!11 And Benwah MURDERED HIS WIFE AND CHILD!!!!!11
Posted By: Zingy (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:24 PM
No Vulcan nerve pinch?
-----------------------
Don't laugh, that used to be the AWA's "The Trooper" finisher. (Yes, it was a KO hold. Ok, that's worse that Punk's Top Wrist Lock of Doom.)
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 04:42 PM
Re: Anthony (Guest): ""The Anaconda Vise does not have roots in BJJ. It is a fictitous BJJ move with no legitimate effectiveness to it."
Do you know what an arm triangle is?"
-----That's not an arm triangle. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. The two variations of the arm triangle involve using either one's own forearm across the windpipe while forming the triangle with his own shoulder grip and an armtrap, or using the opponent's own arm across the carotid arterie and forming the triangle with your arms around it squeezing.
Re: island jiu jitsu: "It is a BJJ hold, it's not a choke but a compression hold.
Once it's locked in, the opponent moves in any direction the move compresses further, so any attempts to fight out of it just cause the victim more pain."
----Its not a BJJ hold, its a headlock with an armtrap in the form of a top wristlock. Its a worthless hold due to the fact that it won't break bones, won't put an opponent to sleep when applied, and is quite easy to escape. The only thing that hold breaks is kayfabe, because of its lack of believability.
Posted By: Patrick Mullin (Registered) on September 07, 2009 at 05:20 PM
All the people that are making excuses for Benoit because of the multiple concussions and brain deterioration are flat out wrong. There are countless and numerous examples of wrestlers and football players with severe brain damage due to concussions. You guys talk like he's the only one who suffered brain damage from concussions. He's not. Hundreds and probably thousands of other athletes have also. And the ONLY one who killed his wife and child was Benoit. He is the ONLY wrestler who has ever done this and he is far from the only wrestler that suffered such brain damage. You also ignore the fact that by definition anyone that murders in cold blood like this (excluding crimes of passion like where you catch your wife cheating on you or something) has a brain defect. Brain studies of serial killers and other murderers have shown they have abnormal brains. That makes sense since a normal person does not go around killing people. So you cannot excuse his actions by saying his brain was damaged. ALL killers have brain abnormalities. Also, the evidence shows that he was calculating and knew what he was doing. If he was that out of it, he would not have been able to call WWE and tell them his family was sick or to consider the ramifications of what he'd done and decide to kill himself. If he was just incoherent and unable to control himself he would not have made phone calls and sent texts about his dogs being outside or made the decision to hang himself to escape culpability. The man knew what he was doing and you guys that make excuses are absolutely idiotic. The man murdered his wife and child. In the history of wrestling with all the concussions and resulting brain injury, he is the ONLY one who has done this. I guess it woudl be different if everyone with concussion related brain injuries was out murdering their family. But they don't. Only ONE man did and that was your beloved Chris Benoit. He's a piece of shit that should burn in hell forever for killing a woman and a YOUNG CHILD. And comparing this to Gagne is the most retarded thing ever since in Gagne's case it appears that he felt threatened and didn't know his own strength and he basically pushed a fragile 90 yr old man. A simple fall can kill an elderly person and so Gagne probably only pushed him or threw him to the ground and the poor guy died. Not even close to the same as the calculated murder Benoit perpetrated. Remember, Benoit seemed to be thinking rationally the entire weekend based on his calls and texts, etc. So stop giving that piece of trash a free pass.
Posted By: Benoit is a piece of shit (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 05:38 PM
One of your complaints about Taker's gogoplatas is that his shoulders are on the mat, yet in the very video you show, his shoulders are almost never on the mat and if they are, they are for less than a second. I agree it looks like shit though. Should go back to doing the Triangle choke.
Posted By: Thechosencowboy (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 05:42 PM
Dragon Sleeper, Numba One!
Posted By: aj (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 05:58 PM
"I'm sorry, but Undertaker's Gogoplata shouldn't even be on the list. It's a triangle choke that isn't even done correctly. We all know Taker is a huge huge fan of MMA, but come on. Atleast put a move on the list that's done properly. The Triangle choke is done by wrapping one leg around the neck and grabbing onto it with your arm, then placing the other leg over the ankle of the foot wrapped around the neck, creating a sort of figure 4 hold. This is called "The Rubber Guard". Then you apply pressure with the opponent's own arm to cut off circulation, thus the Triangle Choke."
Its not a triangle, moron. If you're going to talk about something at least look it up and make sure you're correct with it. With Gogoplata you're using your shin to choke out your opponent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTKDmjU88Jc
Posted By: Guest#9276 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 06:33 PM
For the love of God people shutup about Benoit already.Nothing new or interesting is presented on the topic in any arguments posted. It's been two years and still you people waste 10 minutes typing a rant most are logical enough to skip past anytime his name is mentioned. My cat died, I got over it. My girlfriend dumped me, well time to move on. My friend hung himself, do I go on internet message boards and talk about how great he was when he was alive or how he is evil for hurting so many people more than two years after it happened? No, no I dont. Grow up people and stop hijacking these comments sections I enjoy reading to see the input of people that don't dwell on negativity and discuss relevant issues.
Posted By: Martin Lawrence (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 06:42 PM
As a little kid nothing was better to me than watching Saturday morning wrestling (WCCW) with the Von Erichs, Freebirds, etc. Kevin used that iron claw all the time. Not sure how many matches he actually won with it, but still brings back memories.
Posted By: Zinnigan (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 06:56 PM
Benoit was a charisma-sponge. Great technician but he was dull. Some might say that's the gimmick but seriously, there's 2 parts to being a great wrestler & Benoit was ZIP in the "mic" & character departments so he's overated & if he had not killed his family & pussed out on the consequences, he'd be talent enhancement on ECW now so yay... he's great. As far as he's not to blame, he was not of sound mind, fuck-off--- let someone kill your family & see if that's a plausible defense, seriously... it's amazing how some guys will defend him tooth & nail never knowing the actual guy. You're like chicks who write & eventually marry serial-killers & child-molesters that are behind bars for life. Knock it off, there's a place for hero-worship & Chris "the Charisma-Sponge" Benoit should be nowhere near that honor.
Posted By: Jerkchicken (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:07 PM
Good God, why is Patrick Mullin such a bitch dweeb? Shut the hell up, who gives a shit really? "oh my god, its NOT a BJJ move people! Holy shit, that shit ruined my day! Ill make it all better by being a complete dork...and I'm done". God I hate you and people like you.
Posted By: YepYep (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:11 PM
You forgot the Claw
Posted By: Guest#3177 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:21 PM
No, I think the crossface is a top 10, and, I think it's okay to talk about Benoit.
Posted By: Sink (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:39 PM
What about the Trooper's dreaded Nerve Pinch from AWA?
Posted By: guest wrong (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 07:56 PM
You know, I've decided to only comment on one thing -- the rumor that Benoit killed his son with the Crossface.
HOW in the HELL do you STRANGLE someone with a CHINLOCK!?!
Thus, it's proven (given the ME's report stating Daniel died of suffocation) that he did not use the Crossface proper. Which sucks for us in the "He wasn't in his right mind" camp, because that'd be a pretty obvious sign his rational mind had checked out for good. (Which I still think it did. His actions weren't snapping and going into a rage, but they were clearly not anything a rational human being would do.)
Posted By: MadmanJack (Registered) on September 07, 2009 at 08:12 PM
You better watch what you say, or Haku will take your eye out.
Posted By: Blanky (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:28 PM
For God's sake people just let the Benoit thing go...there is never going to be a 100% collective opinion on him after what happened and there's no reason to rip this guy to shreds over talking about him...I may be a week late, but a lot of those comments were about a year or two too late..let it go and get over yourselves with your indignation..if it was some schlub that pumps gas that had done it, it would have long been forgotten..
Posted By: AquaTeenHungerforce (Registered) on September 07, 2009 at 08:30 PM
chris jericho's arm bar
Posted By: Guest#1424 (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:45 PM
nobody was ever murdered with an arm bar
Posted By: Y2J (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 08:47 PM
Can we stop with the whole "Benoit used the croddface on Daniel" nonasense? First, it has never been hinted at, let alone confirmed by authorities. Second, its not a choke! It doesn't (real or kayfabe) cut of airflow. Enough already, stop trying to add unnecessary fake drama to a legitimately tragic incident.
Posted By: jeff (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 09:18 PM
Seriously. This guy sets a certain criteria for all of his lists, and it's still completely over the heads of about half of all of the commentators. By knockout moves, he meant moves that make an opponent "pass out." A submission hold would techniquely mean that the opponent "taps out" from the pain, or is TKO'd. Too much pain can cause somebody to pass out, but usually it doesn't, at least not in the WWE. A KO means that the opponent passed out from a move that is used primarily to make an opponent pass out, not tap. Even though it usually wouldn't make an opponent pass out in real life, the Masterlock is also a good example of a move that has caused many wrestlers to pass out. I'm guessing it didn't make the list though because it doesn't cut off the windpipe or block a bodypart that takes in oxygen. I was disappointed that there was no mention of the camel clutch. It doesn't exactly cut off air supply, but it will make someone pass out in seconds if applied correctly. I've blacked out from it before. It's the most painful submission that I know of that doesn't involve cutting off air supply.
Posted By: Andis (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 09:25 PM
All these moves are the same, if applied properly for "real" Listing them in some kinda number order to suggest one is better then the other is pointless because any one of them has the same effect if done right.
Posted By: ChrisA (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 09:34 PM
1) An STO is actually more like a Rock Bottom. The move you referred to is a *REVERSE* STO, wherein the attacker pulls the opponent down into a faceplant maneuver. A full-on STO involves a leg-trip and using the attacker's weight and force to slam the opponent's head and neck into the mat.
2) Benoit's mental state during the last few days of his life need to be brought up. The Benoit who killed his family was not the same Benoit that wowed audiences left, right, and center in ECW, WCW, and the WWF/E. Due to years of concussions and steroid usage, his brain was deformed from its original state, thus changing his very personality and thought process. This is not a statement by me saying that he was not wrong, but it is one that says you should not jump to conclusions and condemn him for being "evil" when he was not of sound mind. I believe the term is "insanity."
Posted By: AndrewCrow (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 09:46 PM
boston crab, figure four, both legitimate
Posted By: tazz (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 10:53 PM
WTF, No Sharpshooter/No Crippler Crossface in the top 10.. and Dragon Sleeper at #1, who are you kidding?
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 11:03 PM
What? No Figure Four? No Texas Cloverleaf? No Crossface? No Torture Rack?
I guess this is the list of trendy submission holds in the last three years. Great.
Posted By: Grrr (Guest) on September 07, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Am I seriously the only one that thinks the Benoit murders were a Mafia hit and/or conspiracy?
Cops have been wrong on A LOT of occassions and just cuz they say it was a murder/suicide cuz thats the fuckin way it looked like, we're all up in arms/one sided/close minded about it? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE! How is everyone so acceptable to this when youre all (supposed) to be HARDCORE wrestling fans?
I remember watching Nancy Grace when the shit happened and she had a guest on there that was questioning the possibilty of there being some kind of Mafia/gang involvement (she was quickly cut off and they went to commercial) and i thought to myself for the 1st time during that whole deal, "Holy shit. She has a point." Yet when someone had a different opinion, it was a whisper, not a shout, and quickly put to bed.
Benoit's CLOSEST friends in the business (if they were any harder on his dick, they'd be a condum) said he wasn't that person. That they couldn't fathom Benoit doing anything like this.
Yes, his brain was damaged, how may guys on the WWE roster do you think are brain damaged by now? Or the TNA roster? Abyss? Raven? HHH? Taker? Shit, even a church going man like HBK? You remember those chair shots Rock gave Shamrock on RAW? Or how about the Royal Rumble ones to Mick Foley? You can fucking DIE from blunt force trauma to the head from a fucking lil bump on the head. Imagine multiple chair shots?!
Speaking of which, don't you guys think Mick Foley's brain would resemble a fine grounded-meat mess compared to Benoit's? Has Mick killed his hot ass wife Colette or their kids? Nope...
But maybe Mick isn't involved in some shit like Benoit might've been. All i'm saying is we're all wrestling fans and we should be quick to defend the men that entertain us. Not everything is what it seems. Benoit killing his kid one day, his wife the next day, then himself the third day, cmon now man...cmon now.
i know i dont have the facts to back this theory up, but by the same token, neither do any of you about yours. youre really just taking the atlanta, ga commissioners/medias words for it.
in any case though, benoit, to wrestling fans anyway, and you do write a fucking wrestling column on a wrestling website, should not be judged for what he did/didnt do but for what he did in the ring as a performer. get the fuck over it. and just so benoit and/or his crossface SHOULD always be mentioned in awesome submission situations:
1) HBK being a hardcore-Christian man (the man goes to Christian rock concerts, thats pretty concrete in my book) wouldnt utilize the crossface if he knew the move was used on a defenseless lil kid that ended up getting murdered. (accusingly)
2)The NFL still mentions OJ and his records. but hes a murderer too, right?
Posted By: Monstro (Guest) on September 08, 2009 at 06:56 AM
This Benoit thing is just never going to go away, and nobody on either side is going to be convinced otherwise.
Even so, the point of the list was to talk about the MOVE, not the WRESTLER PERFORMING THE MOVE. Benoit just happened to be the guy who popularised the move as a finisher.
Talking about how awesome the crossface is as a move is not, and should not, be taken as any sort of commentary on Benoit the man or wrestler, certainly not something as secondary (and false) as the fact that it was "used against his son" (which it wasn't).
By that logic, we should have a moratorium on neckbreakers or half the moves on this list, since they would likely have been used to kill people too. It's complete nonsense.
Anyway, a good list this week. I would've liked to see the Spider Twist (hey, I'm a Yoshida mark), but the Koji Clutch is just as good.
Posted By: The Tortoise King (Registered) on September 08, 2009 at 07:52 AM
great list. Both this week and last week. As for the Benoit thing, yeah, you will get blow back no matter what your opinion is of Benoit. You shouldn't have had to put your opinion of the man up to defend yourself but from what I have seen since that tragic incident it seems no one can just let his name go mentioned without speakin on it. I have been a wrestling fan for too long even through the tragedies that don't get spoken of so it is what it is. For all those that say he should burn in hell, truth be told if you believe like that then you really shouldn't be concerned with him anymore because his judgement was already taken care of so why dwell on it. Can I still watch his matches yes because honestly some of the current wrestlers can still stand to learn from his ring work and if you don't want them learnin from his ring work the learn from the men opposite him because he was a part of some of the greatest matches. But it is what it is, just hope history or this particular history doesn't repeat itself.
Posted By: Guest#0241 (Guest) on September 08, 2009 at 11:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwf9x_20DJA
That video links to a real anaconda choke. Although it is a cool move, I've never seen an anaconda "vice" applied in any sort of legit submission grappling or mma competition
Posted By: Guest#4047 (Guest) on September 08, 2009 at 01:47 PM
I think both the Anaconda Vise and the Million Dollar Dream both belong in last week's submission category as opposed to this week's chokehold/knockout one. They both focus on attacking the shoulder and arm more than the throat and are more similar to the Crippler Crossface and Crossface Chickenwing.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on September 09, 2009 at 11:43 AM