High Road/Low Road 09.11.09: Breaking Point: A Submission Based PPV
Posted by Chad Nevett on 09.11.2009
This weekend, WWE presents the first ever submission based PPV event. Is it a good idea or a bad idea? You tell us...
Welcome back to the High Road/Low Road!
A brief explanation of the column: Sat takes the High Road (positive view) on angles, gimmicks, and other wrestling related "stuff" while Uncletrunx takes the Low Road (negative view).
Results for R-Truth:
High Road: 30%
Low Road: 61%
Both Roads: 09%
Breaking Point: A Submission Based Pay Per View
High Road:
I have mentioned this in multiple columns and I am going to mention it again. The WWE needs to do something to distinguish between their pay per view. In the past few years, the WWE has made an effort to distinguish between the pay per views. I would have liked to have seen the submission gimmick applied to all of the matches and not just the main event, but that is a minor point.
Low Road:
I'm pleased to see only the main event using the stipulation; over use of a stipulation makes it far less special. Multiple matches needing a submission to win them will inevitably make each seem like less of a big deal.
High Road:
The one thing that I see happening with this pay per view is that it is easily going to allow for the feuds to continue for next pay per view. While it would seem like the submission matches would be a feud ender, the thing to note is that the next pay per view is Hell in a Cell. That will be the feud ending pay per view.
Low Road:
In other words, don't bother buying this one as the next one will be where the feuds are ended. Also, having two Pay Per View events in successive months which rely on a gimmick match being used multiple times will only compound the error in my view, making each seem less special and more routine.
High Road:
A minor point here, but I am going to mention it anyway. This is the first time that I can recall having a submission based pay per view and that is something that is definitely noteworthy.
Low Road:
It may be a first, but that is not a guarantee it's a good idea. We've yet to see a Pay Per View where all of the matches are hog pen matches, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea just because it's a first. In fact, the reason it's not been done before is probably because previous bookers and creative teams have realized that too many gimmick matches of one type would not make for a good Pay Per View event.
High Road:
An interesting thing about this pay per view is that we will get to see wrestlers in a light that we have not seen them in. For example, we have not seen CM Punk use the anaconda vice since his debut. We are basically guaranteed seeing him use the maneuver against the Undertaker. Randy Orton is going to have to make John Cena quit and you would have to venture to guess that he will have to do it with a submission and he is not a submission wrestler. I think that this makes for an interesting pay per view.
Low Road:
Forcing wrestlers who are not submission wrestlers to wrestle in that way does not play to their strengths. While Undertaker vs Punk could be intriguing, as Punk tries to make ‘Taker give up while ‘Taker works MMA style may be interesting (although I prefer Monstertaker to MMAtaker) but Cena vs Orton in a submission match seems to be forcing a square peg into a round hole.
High Road:
I look at both world titles matches and I find it hard to see all four competitors tapping out or quitting. The logical option would be for both heel champions to lose, but I can't see both titles changing hands. That leads me to believe that either John Cena or the Undertaker are going to tap/quit, so that will definitely being interesting to see.
Low Road:
All I can see is screwy booking to keep the faces strong, or heels quitting all over the place. I'd be willing to bet the house that we'll see a variant of the Wrestlemania 13 finish too.
High Road:
When I first heard about the submission based pay per view, I thought that it would be a unique pay per view because while it is a submission pay per view, there are ways to add variety to the matches. We will definitely see with an I quit match, a submission match, and a falls count everywhere submission match.
Low Road:
I don't see them adding enough variety. To me, this is one of those ideas that should have stayed firmly on the drawing board.
Simply write "High Road", "Low Road", or "Both Roads" in the comment section.
E-Mails:
These are all of the e-mails that we received this week. We do not respond to the actual e-mail, but the reply to your e-mail will be below.
Sat: The only emails we received this week were for voting purposes.
Uncletrunx: On we go then…
Comments:
Below are the comments for last week's columns and our responses. Every comment will not be included because it makes our lives a lot easier. The comments section was last looked at on Sunday Morning Pacific Time.
JD Writes:
low road: the pretty ricky skits.
Sat: The WWE decided to stop them, so that is why they were not mentioned last week. I will admit the pretty ricky skits suck.
Uncletrunx: They were terrible. So terrible, I didn't even mention them, as I'd purged them from my mind! It wasn't that I meant to mention them but forgot, not at all…
Iomis Writes:
Low Road: He is all sizzle and no steak. His matches are boring and that corkscrew move he does is the dumbest looking move in wrestling today
Sat: Am the only one that likes R-Truth's matches?
Uncletrunx: Probably not, judging by crowd reaction. I can see why he's not an internet favourite though.
The Gold Standard Writes:
Low Road because of how they booked him thus far. The guy could really be a great face upper midcarder, competing for the IC title. Something Smackdown needs more of right now. I just think the case with R-Truth is the same with Gail Kim, Christian and whoever else from TNA goes to WWE. Those following people were big timers in TNA.I would never thought K-Kwik (former alias in WWF-2001) would be a two time NWA/TNA Champion. I guess the E whats to make the point that they have made with anyone else who wasnt WWE homegrown and that is whatever you accomplished in other federations doesn't mean spit to the WWE.
Sat: I think the main problem that R-Truth has is that he is on a loaded show.
Uncletrunx: He's on a loaded show and is a former TNA wrestler.
JWestmoreland Writes:
Low Road: He should have never left TNA(I know everyone complains about it, but at least TNA does something with the guys they sign from another company 99% of the time.) I wonder if Ron Killings regrets leaving TNA, infact I wonder if Christian and Gail regret leaving. They go from being treated like superstars to being treated like afterthoughts.
Sat: I think R-Truth had to leave TNA because he was not going to move up in TNA. I think the only person that should have stayed in TNA Is Gail Kim, but I think she did it for financial reasons.
Uncletrunx: I'm willing to bet Financial reasons are a factor in many such decisions.
TheTheoryofTimeandSpace Writes:
Low Road.
If he'd been used correctly in the first place, he should have been brought in to feud with John Cena.
The "Real" rapper VS The "Wigga"
At the time of his debut, Cryme Tyme were hanging around with Mr Rappadoo.
Now, in storyterms, if R-Truth had convinced Cryme Tyme to turn on Cena and support him in role to prove that Cena wasn't street, we'd have had an interesting feud going on.
Plus, Heel Killings is much, much better than fan appeasing R-Truth and he would ultimately get more over.
Even if the fan reaction had caused them to turn R-Truth face, him and Cena could have put their differences aside having earnt respect for each other to take on the now EVIL Cryme Tyme who had by now teamed up with Mark Henry to gain the upper hand on Cena.
There you go. 18 months worth of interesting main events with NEW match ups. Cena V Killings / Cryme Tyme. Cena & Killings V Cryme Tyme. Cena V Henry. Killings V Henry.
Wow, you've escalated and actually put programmes together and created some new main eventers.
It's too easy. But instead, the WWE took the pathetic stale route, or rather, they took the Low Road.
As usual.
Sat: There was no way the WWE was going to do this. Do you even know how threatening something like this is to HHH.
Uncletrunx: It's interesting fantasy booking, but it's not something I could see WWE doing. It's a bit too edgy now, and it would mean elevating a TNA wrestler over a lot of their own talent.
The Great Captain Smooth Writes:
Both roads. Low, because he isn't a spring chicken in the ring(I think he's 37.), the rap gimmick will only work for so long, and he will turn off a segmant of the fans that don't like rap music.(I've heard the boos in the south.) High road, because while the rap will wear thin, crowds do like to be involved, the guy has some pretty nifty moves that will pop a lot of kids, he is more than able to help put younger talent over, and he has the charisma to still have an on air role after he retires from the ring.
Sat: I think he is a good asset because he can wake up the crowd.
Uncletrunx: He can, but he's never going to be a main eventer. He may be the first match out to warm the crowd up, but he's unlikely to be the last.
KanyonKreist Writes:
Truth? HIGH ROAD.
WWE's inability to use Truth for more than two consecutive weeks? LOW ROAD.
I hate to say it, but WWE could really use Vince Russo back on their "creative team." At least Russo put some time into the midcard. Hell, he put a LOT of time into it. Remember when people actually FEUDED over the European Title?
Currently, we've got approximately three ongoing angles on Smackdown, three on Raw, and one on ECW. Yes, that's including the divas. That's seven angles amid six hours of television per WEEK. Do WWE's writers just do this as a hobby or something..? EARN YOUR PAY, YOU LAZY TWATS!!
So, uh... Both Roads.
Sat: Though you could argue that the WWE has been putting time into the midcard. Look at some of these feuds going on with Kane/Khali, Knox/Finlay, Mysterio/Ziggler.
Uncletrunx: I have to say, I do miss Russo's booking of the midcard. Yes, titles were hotshotted and some downright strange booking decisions were made, but there was creativity for a lot more wrestlers towards the bottom of the card.
JLAJRC Writes:
Low Road. Take away his entrance rap and he's nothing special. He has yet to impress me in any way.
Sat: I guess I am the only one that finds R-Truth decent enough in the ring.
Uncletrunx: From among our little internet community, you might be right.
High Fly Flow Writes:
Low Road. R-Truth just doesn't fit in the WWE IMO. You see the Smackdown roster, where there is many many people who have a higher role then...CM Punk, Undertaker, Rey Mysterio, Edge, Chris Jericho, John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Dolph Ziggler, Kane etc...
Yes, also the Pretty Ricky skits are so bad. It ruins the reputation of R-Truth.
And his wrestling skill set. It's a spot fest tbh. I mean, other then the corkscrew elbow, backflips, splits, corkscrew scissors kick etc. what else does he have. A sitout hip toss. Wow, that really is gonna entertain me. If he was back in TNA, he would fit more. He had more entertaining moves and that stuff.
And yes, the word TNA makes Vince McMahon piss his pants. Vince doesn't like giving chances to those TNA peoples, and that's a bad thing for R-Truth after being in that company for 5 years or so.
So that's my opinion.
LOW ROAD
Sat: I look at his unique style as a positive because it distinguishes from the other wrestlers.
Uncletrunx: "TNA makes Vince McMahon piss his pants". There are so many ways to take this…
Nick M Writes:
@Uncletrunx - You are in fact thinking of J.T. Southern, who worked in WCW at the time you mentioned as a musician/wrestler, and also feuded with a young Van Hammer. It's described in Mick Foley's classic book, "Have A Nice Day".
Sat: Well, there is your answer Uncletrunx…
Uncletrunx: I should've had the courage of my convictions. I think I need to go back and re-read Foley's book, I haven't done so in a year or two.
Trashy Writes:
Low Road- The entrance & song are too annoying for a big segment of the crowd for him to get over completely. remember how well Master P's No Limit Soldiers went over in WCW? Swoll and 4X4 aren't hall of fame bound while we've seen a West Texas Redneck inducted!
And if the best alternative they could come up with for him was Pretty Ricky you know he's doomed.
And it was JT Southern who carried a guitar with him to the ring in WCW. But that guy was so untalented in the ring it didn't matter what he did coming down the aisle see also Maxx Payne/Man Mountain Rock's WWF run).
Sat: I really want to know who came up with the idea of Pretty Ricky…
Uncletrunx: So you can do them a physical discourtesy?
Guest#3803 Writes:
High road. He can pop a crowd for a good start, wrestle decently, has mic skills and could earn cash if they developed him.
He's worth his money just for firing up house shows if that's all they wanna do with him.
Sat: This is my basic view on R-Turth.
Uncletrunx:
It's damning him with faint praise in many ways, although it is accurate; if all he's going to be is a crowd warmer, it's a low road to me given how much potential he was seen to have.
Guest Writes:
I'm optimistic, so I'll take the High Road this week.
R-Truth just needs a good feud to really get over. I think he and Morrison could tear the house down if they're given the chance. There's so much potential on the Smackdown roster, but R-Truth isn't being paired with anyone that matters.
Regarding his entrance -- it might help if he actually rapped about his opponent on the way out.
Sat: He really has not had a decent feud yet. And singing a different rap song each week might be a bit too much for R-Truth.
Uncletrunx: You could say the same of virtually anyone. I think in his case there are just too many things working against him.
Mary Couture Writes:
High Road. I am not a big fan of R-Truth but he does get a good reaction when he comes out. His wrestling skills have improved a bit. Given time i think he could be a good wrestler. I do have to mention though that Cena and R-Truth are not the only ones that sing their own theme song. Shawn Micheals has been doing his own theme since forever.
Sat: HBK did not come to mind for me. Thanks for mentioning that.
Uncletrunx: I'd also forgotten HBK "singing" his theme song, mostly because it makes me cringe every time I hear it.
Justin Writes:
Low Road. Killings is decent but not amazing. His "whats up" entrance seems to get the crowd going (despite being awful) but what else does he have? He has been consistently good in the ring but nothing he's done has ever wowed me. And his few chances on the mike (aside from his theme song) have ranged from underwhelming to boring. I hope he gets a better chance to show his personality somewhere down the line but based on what I've seen I can't see him anywhere near a main event.
Sat: No doubt that his promo skills are bad.
Uncletrunx: I think this is a pretty accurate assessment of him, and why he's never likely to be at the top of the card.
Your reasons for taking the High Road, Low Road, or Both Roads and suggestions for future High Road/Low Road are welcome at satuncletrunx@gmail.com or in the comment section. Your reply will be included in next week's column.
Posted By: BPN (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Low road
Posted By: jaan (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 01:26 PM
Nice article, guys.
I'm taking low road. This just seems too contrived for my liking. Let's see. Cena has a submission finisher. Orton doesn't. Taker has an established one, Punk (on WWE TV) doesn't. Regal does, Christian doesn't. HBK does, Legacy doesn't. This concept would only work if each competitor in the match had an established/over submission move.
Side note, I've already WM13 booked the Punk/Taker match. And it involves run-ins from Danielson and McGuinness to beat Taker unconscious until Punk can beat him. Thus forming an ROH stable IN WWE.
Guy can dream, right?
Posted By: AGM (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 01:26 PM
Low Road.
If the WWE was doing 6 PPV/year vs. 14 PPV/year - then this might be a high road. The reason is that not every wrestler has a defined submission manuever. Let's look at the two championship matches and the submission history for each participant
Punk - broke out the Anaconda Vice only in the past 2 weeks. For the majority of WWE fans, they have no idea if this will be effective because he's rarely used it. Would have been nice to see that hold used a few more times on other opponents to convince me about that hold (3 weeks between PPV is not enough time to introduce a hold like this).
Taker - He has the Gogoplata - so he's OK.
Orton - it's nice they changed this to an I Quit match since I don't think Orton has an established submission hold. A few extra weeks for him to introduce this would have been nice.
Cena - STF - so he's all set.
And what about some of the other competitors. Morrison, Ziggler, MVP, HHH, DiBiase, Rhodes - I don't recall them having a specific "go to" submission hold.
Jericho (Walls of himself), Henry (bear hug), Big Show (camel clutch) and HBK (sharpshooter) all have known submission holds. But their problem is that their each involved in tag team matches. As we know - tag team submission holds are next to impossible to win with because their partner can break them up rather easily.
So really - going into the event, I can only "believe" that Cena and Taker have finishing moves that can win a match. What the WWE needed to do was to build up more submission holds for all of this PPV's participants - and they needed to have some foresight and started this process 2-3 months ago - not 2-3 weeks ago.
Posted By: BobbyC (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 01:55 PM
Low Road only cause its still the same people in high profile matches.Now if there were more submissionists or people who use submissions regularly in the high profile matches then it would make sense.Really out of all the matches only people who use submissions are Punk,Taker, Cena, Y2J and Regal.Maybe if Masters and other people who use submissions were competing it make more sense.Now if just if Legacy beats DX by DiBiase making HBK give up to the Million Dollar Dream then everything I'm saying right now is irrelevant.
Posted By: The Gold Standard (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 02:04 PM
Gotta say high road this time... stuff like "I Quit" is different enough from a typical submission match to make it interesting. If you remember Flair/Foley you can "quit" over things having nothing to do with how strong/weak you are. The other matches all depend on the participants and the moves used. If nothing else, maybe this ppv will finally get HHH to add a new move to his arsenal (and I'm actually a fan of the guy...)
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 02:36 PM
High Road. I think the PPV will be good even with Ziggler v Morrison being taken off.Taker v punk should be right up the IWC alley,and RKO v Cena could be the WM13 remake with Super Cena passing out to an Orton submission.
Posted By: Phil (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 02:44 PM
Low road.
The optimist in me hopes these stipulations will reveal a side of WWE's roster we haven't seen before. For example, I'd like to see Orton deliver an RKO, and roll it over into a Dragon Sleeper.
But the realist in me says these guys will just look really awkward as they try to be submission wrestlers. The past couple weeks should have had some submission "warm-up" matches on Raw and Smackdown.
To compensate for the lackluster in-ring action, I expect some screwy finishes.
A lot of people have predicted a WM13-type ending to the Cena-Orton match. I see this happening too.
As for the Punk-Undertaker match, just remember this show is in Montreal...
Posted By: guest wrong (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 05:58 PM
Both roads. While it isn't the most needed gimmick for a PPV, it is something different. Also, it's not a sure thing that Cena or Orton will will say, "I quit." from a submission hold. Remember JBL screaming it in an I Quit match against Cena? To me, that is part of the fun, trying to think of what the WWE will come up with.
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 07:05 PM
Low road. To submit means to quit, so there is really no difference between the two main events. They are different in name only. The Foley/Flair match could have easily been called a submission match.
Posted By: Guest#8176 (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 07:33 PM
Low Road.
I just can't forget that awful Cena/Show submission match from earlier this year. If that's the quality we can hope to expect then I say no thanks.
Posted By: Guest#0766 (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 09:31 PM
I am taking the Low Road. Does anyone honestly believe for one second that John Cena, the Undertaker, Triple H, or Shawn Michaels would say "I Quit" or Submit ever on this pay per view? That is where my fault is with this event. The matches are just not believable and too easy to predict.
Posted By: David (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 09:35 PM
low road
Posted By: nanoman (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Low Road
Really WWE? that's the best you could come up with? An all submission ppv(for the main events anyway) Im with Uncletrux here, either all the faces will win, or we are going to see some screwy finishes(like the one from WM13....or maybe Royal Rumble 1999!) I love how all the feds think we have short term memories.
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on September 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM
Low Road. Without a doubt.
Posted By: Anonymous Smart Mark (Guest) on September 12, 2009 at 01:46 AM
Low road. WWE protect their really big names and have conditioned people to think that submitting is weak.
Not everyone has an established submission finisher and the positioning of a submission match with the Undertaker at the start of a feud is horrible.
Posted By: Guest#0940 (Guest) on September 12, 2009 at 03:52 AM
Uncletrunx said:
Forcing wrestlers who are not submission wrestlers to wrestle in that way does not play to their strengths. While Undertaker vs Punk could be intriguing, as Punk tries to make ‘Taker give up while ‘Taker works MMA style may be interesting (although I prefer Monstertaker to MMAtaker) but Cena vs Orton in a submission match seems to be forcing a square peg into a round hole.
I disagree. I think this forces wrestlers/bookers to be creative because they have to come up with maneuvers and finishes that they rarely use, which would be a positive.
But I gotta go with Both Roads because I'd rather they'd kept Cyber Sunday. It may have been a gimmicky throwaway PPV, but they were fun PPV's at least.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on September 12, 2009 at 09:57 PM
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