The Contentious Ten 9.14.09: Ten Reasons The World Heavyweight Title IS The WCW Title
Posted by John Peters on 09.14.2009
Somebody just had a birthday and that somebody is the WWE's "World Heavyweight Title." But the World Heavyweight Title isn't all that WWE makes it seem. This week's Contentious Ten cuts through the WWE's BS concerning the history of the World Heavyweight Title, and reveals what it really is: The WCW Title!
Comments
I sure opened up a can of worms last week with the whole Benoit thing. Obviously the issue is still as volatile as ever, and I don't expect it not be for many, many years. That said, I have personally had enough of the Benoit discussion for now, seeing as it seemed to spread all over 411 in the past week.
A lot of people seemed to dislike the Gogoplat's inclusion, or spot on the list. Maybe I did rank it a bit high, but it was a challenge just coming up with ten knockout holds. The truth is I put up as high as I did because I remember so many people gushing over it when Undertaker started using it. There was also a debate over the whether the Anaconda Vise is hold that can make a wrestler pass out. Ausjimmy wrote: I'm pretty sure nobody ever passed out from the Anaconda Vice - it was always tapouts. Patrick Mullin added: The Anaconda Vise does not have roots in BJJ. It is a fictitous BJJ move with no legitimate effectiveness to it. Just looking at the hold, it doesn't look like it hurts much, and the attacker's arm is clearly around the neck of the victim so it looks like a carotid artery hold to me. As far as the Brazilian Ju-jitsu reference goes, there isn't a whole lot of information out there on the mechanics of wrestling holds, and the bulk of the stuff that is comes from the ever reliable Wikipedia, which is where I got my information on the Anaconda Vise. So, if I was wrong it's because my sources were bad.
Aside from that I found this awesome video on the difference between a choke hold and a sleeper hold. It's explained by WWE Hall of Famer, Nick Bockwinkel!
Just kidding. I didn't find this video Patrick Mullin did. He posted it two weeks ago and then last week too. Sorry, Patrick, I didn't mean to you feel like I was ignoring you, I just thought that anyone who wanted to see the video would just follow your link. I really liked the video a lot, so thanks for posting the link Patrick.
On to the list...
Just twelve days ago (from the time of publication) WWE's World Heavyweight Championship celebrated its seventh anniversary. During that time there have been thirty-three separate title reigns, sixteen different champions, and five periods of vacancy. The title has been in WrestleMania main events and has, on more than one occasion, been the undisputed focal point of the promotion's overall storyline. However, since the World Heavyweight Title's WWE inception there has been an ongoing debate over whether the title was a newly created championship or if it was a continuation of the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. Most sources view WWE's World Heavyweight Title as a separate title than the WCW Title, or only recognize it as a spin-off of the WCW Title in the same way the WCW is a spin-off of the NWA Title.
I'm going to fly in the face of this logic and use this week's Contentious Ten to present a ten point argument of why I think the World Heavyweight Title is in fact the WCW Title under a slightly different name. I am fully aware that this is a fairly futile exercise as WWE ultimately controls the title. If they say it's a new title then it's a new title. If they say it's a continuation or spin-off of the WCW Title then it's a continuation or spin-off of the WCW Title. Since the title was reintroduced I have frequently referred to it verbally as the WCW Title, so even if this list won't change reality (what ever that reality actually is) it is something I feel strongly about.
Honorable Mention
It's The Same Belt
This week's Honorable Mention is a bit unusual because it spoils my number one reason. I'm putting it here as an honorable mention because the fact that the WCW Title and the World Heavyweight Title are, with the exception of some very minor differences, represented by the same belt design is a point that permeates nearly my entire argument. It would be nearly impossible to make the case that they are the same title with out mentioning that they are the same belt until the end of the argument. I will write about this fact further when I get to the number one entry.
The Top Ten Reasons the World Heavyweight Title IS the WCW Title
X
The WWF Buys WCW
On March 23, 2001 the World Wrestling Federation somewhat quietly announced on their website that they had purchased World Championship Wrestling. Soon after the reports on the purchase flooded the Internet Wrestling Community. WCW had been losing money fast, and when a deal between its parent company AOL-Time Warner and the Eric Bischoff led Fusient Media Ventures fell through the WWF seized the opportunity and purchased their primary competitor. Vince McMahon would save the more dramatic announcement of the coup for Monday Night Raw. McMahon gloated about his victory all night long, but at the end of the night it was revealed (in the storyline) that Shane McMahon had actually been the one who had purchased the promotion. Along with the purchase of the brand came WCW's film library, several talent contracts, intellectual property, and most importantly for my argument the WCW Title belts. On the last Nitro the WWF booked Booker T to win the WCW World Heavyweight Title from Scott Steiner who's contract was not part of the deal.
Rumors and even legitimate news reports stated that WCW would find a new home on TNN (currently Spike) and be marketed as a separate brand. However, when it became clear that wouldn't happen the WWF decided to go with the much-maligned Invasion angle, where WCW and ECW would invade the WWF. The invading WCW brand brought a number of their championships with them. Along with the WCW Title the WWF brought in the WCW Tag Team Titles, United States Title, and Cruiserweight Title. On July 24th Kurt Angle defeated Booker T to win the WCW Title. Booker T would win the title back a few days later but would lose it to The Rock at SummerSlam. From that point on the WCW Title was held exclusively by WWF wrestlers. These title changes are important to my argument because it demonstrates that the WWF thought enough about the prestige of the WCW Title to put the belt on The Rock (their most popular wrestler at the time) in the main event of SummerSlam. The fact that they did this indicates that they saw the historical importance of the title, and that they were willing to treat it as equal to the WWF Title. Additionally, by putting the WCW Title on Chris Jericho showed that they were already thinking about how, with two World Titles, they could elevate new talent. All of this means that they saw value in what the WCW Title represented and sought to capitalize on that value.
IX
The WCW Title is Renamed to "The World Title"
As the war between the WWF and the WCW and ECW Alliance sputtered to an end, WWF management decided it was time to merge the last representations of the old WCW, the various title belts, into the WWF. So, in addition to the "Winner Take All" Survivor Series match that was won by Team WWF, the WWF and WCW Tag Team Titles were unified, and the WWF Intercontinental Title and WCW United States Title were unified. Following WCW's final loss at the Survivor Series WCW was almost completely wiped out of existence, the last vestige of the promotion being the WCW World Heavyweight Title, held by WWF Superstar The Rock. In order to rid the wrestling world of WCW completely Vince McMahon ordered a small four man tournament to unify the WWF Title, held by Steve Austin (who would battle Kurt Angle) and the WCW Title (The Rock would battle Chris Jericho). Only during this announcement McMahon declared that the because WCW was no more the WCW would now be referred to as "The World Title." Later that night The Rock wrestled Kurt Angle and was announced as the World Champion on his way to the ring. From that point on the World Title was never referred to as the WCW Title ever again.
This is an important part of my argument because it establishes the fact that during its time in the WWF, the WCW belt was called by two different names yet was the same title with the same lineage. So why, even though it is physically the same belt, would another name adjustment change the lineage the belt represented? If the name has been altered once, surely it can be altered again. Additionally, the belt was renamed the World Title, and the current version of the belt is the World Heavyweight Title. To me this implies a connection between the two, especially considering that the belt design is the same. I would suggest that adding the word "Heavyweight" to the title's name is simply verbal aesthetics. "World Heavyweight" sounds more impressive than simply "World."
VIII
The Intercontinental Title Rumor
Following the brand split the Undisputed WWE Champion and WWE Women's Champion represented both brands. The rest of the titles were brand specific. The Cruiserweight and Tag Team Titles were originally the property of SmackDown, and the Intercontinental, European, and Hardcore Titles were the property of Raw. WWE management must have decided they had too many titles floating around so they started to phase some out. The European Title was permanently unified with the Intercontinental Title on July 22, 2002 when Intercontinental Champion Rob Van Dam defeated European Champion Jeff Hardy in a Ladder Match. Then on August 26 Intercontinental Champion Rob Van Dam defeated Hardcore Champion Tommy Dreamer to unify those two titles. At this point the Intercontinental Title had become quite a significant title as it had absorbed the WWF North American Title, the WCW United States Title, and the other two aforementioned titles. Rumor has it that WWE had big plans for the Intercontinental Title; the reason for all of the unifications was that they were going to make the Intercontinental Title the primary championship of Raw, thus elevating it to the same status as SmackDown's WWE Title. As the story goes either WWE management or in some versions Triple H himself killed off the idea, as the Intercontinental Title wasn't seen as prestigious enough a title to be the top title of Raw. As a result the WCW Belt was pulled out of Titan Towers and handed to Triple H making him the "first" World Heavyweight Champion. A month or so later the Intercontinental Title was merged with the World Heavyweight Title.
It would seem that the fact that the whole Intercontinental Title thing is an unconfirmed rumor should hurt my argument. However, whether it's true or not doesn't matter, as either way it helps my point. If it's true, WWE decided they needed a title more prestigious than the Intercontinental Title to represent Raw. There's nothing prestigious about just making up a title belt and handing it to some one, so they brought back the instantly recognizable WCW belt, giving the "new" title instant prestige (more on this at number 1). If the rumor isn't true that means WWE knew they were going to have two world championships. If this is the case the logic is the same as above, simply making up a belt would make that belt look less valuable than the Intercontinental Title, so they decided to use the recognizable and already prestigious WCW Belt.
VII
The WWE's Ambivalence On The Connection
One of the most confusing aspects about the whole World Heavyweight Title issue is that WWE itself is ambivalent on the topic. They just can't seem to make up their mind. If you head over to their title history page and click on the World Heavyweight Title, up comes a list of WWE's former World Heavyweight Champions. If you click on the first entry, Triple H, the text explains "RAW General Manager Eric Bischoff then declared that since Lesnar had left for SmackDown!, that RAW needed its own champion. So with that, he opened a briefcase and pulled out the old WCW Championship and gave it to Triple H, naming him the first World Heavyweight Champion." Obviously the second sentence has a (for me) a key contradiction it. How can you pull out the old WCW Championship while simultaneously declaring Triple H the first man to hold that title? Regardless this entry recognizes the fact that the belt was at one time the WCW Title.
However, this reference isn't even the biggest reference to the World Heavyweight Title being the same title as the WCW Title on the website. The main World Heavyweight Title page has a link to historical photos. Some of the wrestlers pictured holding the "World Heavyweight Title" include Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Goldberg (in WCW), Randy Savage, Sting, and everybody's favorite David Arquette. That page in-turn has a link to an article about the history of the title. The blurb to the linking article explains "The championship is decended[sic] from a historic lineage of past champions dating back to 1904. On Sept. 2, the title celebrated its fifth anniversary of becoming a top WWE championship, being bestowed upon Triple H by then-Raw General Manager Eric Bischoff, who ironically presided over many title changes when the gold was the WCW World Championship." The article itself explains how the title was "new" yet has "an extensive history," and discusses it as both the WCW Title and the NWA Title, and describes the current version as a "reincarnation." Once again, I have to ask how can the title be old and new at the same time? It is a logically inconsistent statement. The only possible explanation is that the title is new to the WWE, but that the title is old to professional wrestling, making it the same title as the WCW Title despite the semantic games WWE is trying to play.
This ambivalence can be seen elsewhere. Segments of WWE's defunct Confidential linked the WCW Title was the World Heavyweight Title. Also, many wrestlers, including Big Show, Booker T, Ric Flair, and Batista have mentioned the lengthy history and other great champions that held the belt, including WCW only wrestlers. In fact Big Show was marketed for a while as the only wrestler to have been WWE, ECW and World Heavyweight Champion, even though the only time he held that title was in WCW. Despite all of these indicators that they are the same title, WWE continues to publish books and magazines that show the World Heavyweight Title as starting in 2002, and they have a separate entry for the WCW Title on their website (which, for a short while was linked to from the World Heavyweight Title History page). Even with these references it's clear that WWE has yet to fully decide what they officially think about the title's history.
VI
The ECW Title
In 2005, WWE put together an ECW reunion show called One Night Stand. The show, thanks to the very loyal ECW fanbase, was such a success that WWE put in motion a plan to resurrect the promotion as a third brand under the WWE banner. The 2006 version of One Night Stand became the rebirth of ECW. The main event featured ECW alumnus Rob Van Dam defeating WWE Champion John Cena. Although many ECW fans may have been expecting a Shane Douglas like throw down of the WWE Title, or even an nWo like paint job on the belt, Van Dam simply showed up on the premier episode of ECW and was awarded the ECW Title (they actually gave him one of those $200 replica belts at first).
This applies to my argument as a means of comparison. By 2006 the ECW Title had been defunct for just over five years (a much longer period than when the WCW Title had stopped being used), and had been the fixture of another, rival, promotion to WWE. So, when it was announced that WWE would be resurrecting ECW some questions remained on how they would handle the ECW Title. These questions were rendered moot when WWE simply reactivated the belt and continued it's previous lineage. My question is, if WWE can recognize and frequently reference the ECW Title's History, why do they have such a hard time doing the same for the World Heavyweight Title? Both titles' resurrections were handled in the same way: a general manager who was linked to the brand the title was originally from awarded the title, represented by its most recently used incarnation, to the wrestler he felt deserved it the most. In the case of the ECW Title the belt was recognized as the same title, in the case of the WCW Title it has been implied that the title was not the same title. This is a glaring inconsistency, if the ECW Title is the same title as when the promotion went under, then the WCW Title is the same title as when the promotion went under, even if it has a different name.
V
The Name "World Heavyweight Title"
"What's in a name?" Shakespeare famously asked through his character of Juliet. I repeat the same question now. Why call the World Heavyweight Title, the "World Heavyweight Title?" I already mentioned earlier that the name of the WCW Title was changed to the World Title prior to it's unification, and how that established the fact that the title's name could be changed without changing the title's lineage. Yet, when the Title was resurrected less than a year after it had been unified with the WWF Title, its name was changed once again to the World Heavyweight Title. Clearly WWE had to differentiate between the "World" Championships they were now promoting, so they left the current championship belt the WWE Championship. This made calling their "new" title the WWE World Heavyweight Championship a near impossibility as the names would be too similar. Furthermore, calling it the "Raw World Title" or something similar wouldn't have had the same gravitas. And they sure as hell weren't going to call it what it really was, the WCW Title, so they settled on the World Heavyweight Title.
I think this is a very important part of my argument, because WWE could have named the belt something less ambiguous if they had really wanted to. By not putting a promotional signifier in front of the belt (or even originally on the belt, as there was no WWE logo on the original version of it) the WWE is telling us something. What they are telling us is that this belt is not a WWE belt, but a belt that transcends WWE, and draws off the title's long and impressive history which encompasses the WCW and even the NWA Title through WCW's connections to the NWA. If they didn't want to imply this they could have simply called the belt something else.
IV
Eric Bischoff
In reality the fact that it was Eric Bischoff who resurrected the World Heavyweight Title is inconsequential, yet, the narrative ramifications of having Eric Bischoff be the one to bring back the title are far reaching. It's safe to assume that a second world title would have been brought into the picture at some point, and it wouldn't have mattered who the fictional General Manager was, but the fact that it was Bischoff adds a not-so-subtle subtext to the WCW Title's resurrection. It was a jaw dropping moment when Bischoff showed up as the general manager of Raw, and it was surreal watching him hug Vince McMahon. Almost immediately Bischoff started making changes to Raw. One of the first things he did was move the announce table away from the ring and put it near the stage, just like it was in WCW. Whether this change was made in reality to help differentiate Raw from SmackDown isn't as important as the fact that it was made to look like Bischoff was responsible for doing it. Superficial changes like that were accompanied by Bischoff's smug inability to never let go of the fact that he was in charge of WCW during a period when the promotion routinely trounced the WWF in the ratings. He also had the inability to recognize the fact that he helped bring WCW to its dismal end. All in all, it seemed like Eric Bischoff, the character, was far more proud of his accomplishments as the head of WCW then he was proud of the fact that he was the general manager of Raw. Additionally he, little by little, stripped Raw of its WWE affiliation. The WWE European and Hardcore Titles were absorbed into the Intercontinental Title, then in a move that defied all logic the WWE Tag Team Titles dropped the WWE moniker and were renamed the World Tag Team Titles (while a new set of WWE Tag Titles were created on SmackDown), the Intercontinental Title was also deactivated, this left the WWE Women's Title as the only belt on Raw with a "WWE" proceeding its name. At the center of all of these changes was the World Heavyweight Title. It seemed as though Bischoff (the character) was bound and determined to make Raw his own show and, in turn, help WCW live on.
Therefore, it is fitting that the one management figure most associated with WCW was the one to reintroduce the WCW Title to Raw. The fact that Bischoff still wanted to stick it to McMahon was apparent. What better way to do that than by bringing back the prestigious World Championship of the organization that came so close to putting him out of business and making it the focal point of WWE's number one show? Having Bischoff be the one to pull out the belt created an automatic association nearly as powerful as the belt design itself: the former boss of WCW reactivating the former belt of WCW intrinsically links the "new" title with the old promotion.
III
Triple H's Claim to the Title
The visual link between Bischoff and the World Heavyweight Title is an important part of my argument, but something Bischoff said on that fateful night in Milwaukee Wisconsin (where I was in attendance) hammers home the connection even more. As he pulled the old WCW Title out of a briefcase and handed it to Triple H he said, "Triple H, you may recognize this world championship, because you were the last man to officially wear it. It's been worn by some of the greatest champions in the history of this industry, and now, Triple H, it will be again, because, ladies and gentlemen, your new World Champion, Triple H!" While "WCW" is not mentioned in the speech, it's clear that Bischoff is alluding to the title's WCW and NWA roots. Also, notice he declares Triple H the "World Champion," the name the title was known by after the demise of WCW in the invasion angle, not the "World Heavyweight Champion." Triple H's connection to the World Heavyweight Title is easy to see. Like Bischoff said in his little speech, Triple H was the last man to officially wear the title. When Chris Jericho unified the WWF and World Titles at Vengeance 2001 Jericho was not given a single title belt to represent the new Undisputed World Championship. Instead he walked around carrying both belts (I think this is how he gets away with claiming he's a five time world champion). When he lost the Undisputed Title to Triple H at WrestleMania X-8, Triple H won both belts, and for a few weeks carried both belts around before he was awarded a single "Undisputed" championship belt. Although this new belt was called the Undisputed Title, it was essentially just the WWE Title, meaning that the old WCW Title was physically, without a shadow of a doubt, gone, and Triple H was the last man to carry it.
Therefore, it makes sense that Triple H's reign as World Champion would be restarted seeing as he was the last one to hold the physical belt. This fact, and the fact that the title's history was alluded to in the awarding of the title to Triple H indicates that the World Heavyweight Title is not a new championship but a continuation of the old WCW Championship.
II
The United States and Cruiserweight Titles
It would be one thing if the World Heavyweight Championship was all alone as a former WCW belt. If it were the only WCW related title in WWE it would seem reasonable to say that "it looks like the WCW Title but it's not, it's a separate and new championship." However, the World Heavyweight Title isn't alone. In 2001 all of the WCW Titles were unified with their WWF counterparts, all except for the WCW Cruiserweight Championship. In the build up to and during the invasion angle, the WWF Light Heavyweight Title had actually experienced a degree of relevancy for the first time in its short history. X-Pac managed to actually unify the Cruiserweight and Light Heavyweight Titles on two occasions, but lost the Cruiserweight Title back to Billy Kidman. A final unification match between X-Pac and Tajiri was originally planned for Survivor Series but X-Pac was injured. As a result the Cruiserweight Title just kind of limped along until it became an exclusive part of SmackDown. In 2003 the defunct WWE Intercontinental Title was revived as a secondary title on Raw. In retaliation SmackDown General Manager, Stephanie McMahon announced that she was resurrecting the United States Championship to act as SmackDown's secondary title, un-unifying the Intercontinental and US Titles, in the same way Bischoff un-unified the WWE Undisputed Title.
A little trip to WWE's Title History page, or even a look at their Title History magazine they put out a few years ago shows that, without a shadow of a doubt, the WWE versions of the Cruiserweight and United States Titles are, in fact, directly linked to their WCW histories. This shows that WWE has no problem recognizing the lineages of other championships that originated outside of their promotion. It is just the World Heavyweight Title that gets denied it's significant history. This hypocritical stance makes no sense. The Cruiserweight Title was simply allowed to change its name and live on. The United States Title had been inactive for years (unlike the few months the WCW Title had been inactive) and it was brought back under exactly the same circumstances as the World Heavyweight Title was (only it didn't even resemble the old US Title belt) and allowed to keep its history. Why is WCW's World Title treated so differently? The ECW Title gets a pass because ECW was never a real threat and because WWE has made it into a bastardized version of its former self. The Cruiserweight Title gets a pass because WWE has never given lightweight wrestling a real chance, so they simply didn't care. And the US Title gets a pass because the belt is just a secondary title. I believe the reason the World Heavyweight Title gets singled out is because WWE doesn't want to recognize the fact that another, defunct, promotion's (one that almost put it out of business) World Title is one of their top two championships. Which segues perfectly to number one…
I
It's The Same Belt (Revisited)
If, in fact, WWE doesn't want to recognize another promotion's World Title as one of their two World Championships, why in the world did they use another promotion's belt to represent their "World Heavyweight Championship?" The argument is really just as simple as that, everything else is just corroborating evidence. Using the WCW Title made sense in the storyline. If Brock Lesnar was going to walk around declaring himself the Undisputed WWE Champion, yet refused to appear on Raw, the title could no longer be considered to be "undisputed." WWE wasn't about to abandon a new belt design, and bringing back the old WWF belt would have led to confusion, so using the WCW Title made the most sense practically and from a narrative standpoint. However, the WCW Title was chosen to represent the World Heavyweight Championship for one reason. That reason is because the belt was instantly recognizable as a legitimate world championship. The Big Gold Belt is the most famous wrestling belt in the history of American wrestling, so by using that belt the WWE gave the "new" title instant credibility. It almost goes without saying then that the reason the title was recognizable and credible is because of its lengthy history both as the WCW Title and the NWA Title. Although the title's history is highly contestable, due to all sorts of promotional splits, it's possible to trace its lineage all the way back to 1904 (I would argue that you could do the same for the TNA World Title as well).
WWE had to recognize the fact that the belt, by its very design would be recognized as the WCW Title. Therefore, if they knew that people would see the belt as the WCW Title, then it follows that they intentionally chose to use that belt because of the fact that people would recognize it. In other words, WWE didn't set out to create a new "World Title" at all. All of their actions indicate that the opposite is true; that they decided to resurrect an already established World Title. If they wanted a new World Title they could have just commissioned another belt, but they didn't do that, they chose to use a belt that was already famous, already associated with world title status, and already had a long, established and prestigious history. All of this showed explicit intent on the part of WWE to use the former WCW Title, and all of the attributes that came along with it, to represent their World Heavyweight Championship. This means that not only do the WCW and World Heavyweight Titles look the same, but they unequivocally are the same.
WWE can try to hide this fact, people can deny it to be true, but in the end, if it looks like the WCW Title, has it's WCW history referred to by wrestlers, websites, and general managers, and is in a promotion where other former WCW belts have been and are active, then it probably is the WCW Title. Regardless of what anyone says otherwise.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:22 AM
i want my time back
Posted By: Guest#6353 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:22 AM
Due to sports entertainment's lack of legitimate competition, its entire history may be squarely placed in the "fiction" category. This allows for for on the fly changes to any and all aspects of its history. Retconning isn't a new concept, and it can easily be applied whenever something doesn't make sense in pro-wrestling. My point being that history doesn't matter, and whatever WWE says at the moment is what "happened", regardless of whether or not we approve.
The title is not acknowledged as the WCW title. It looks the same, but very clearly has a different lineage. Unlike the ECW title, it wasn't reactivated. At best, it is the spiritual successor to the WCW championship.
Posted By: turbo_fattie (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:43 AM
Exactly, except I would argue that all holders of the Undisputed Title held BOTH world titles despite the lack of a physical belt.
Posted By: Mick (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:51 AM
First and Foremost, World Wrestling Entertainment recognizes three world championships: WWE, ECW, & World Heavyweight. (watch summerslam's ecw title match as christian enters the ring) Second, allusions are often made to the WCW and NWA titles only because WWE often amalgamates the history of this championship with the history of the belt that represents it, which is the Big Gold Belt. So the "pulled out the old WCW Championship" quote is in reference to the "belt." The NWA title was represented by the Big Gold Belt, as was the WCW title and the WCW International title. Now the WWE's World Heavyweight title is being represented by the belt. These titles are only connected through the belt that represented them but none of these title are one and the same. Interested in an in-depth discussion on the subject? Hit up the World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)'s talk page on Wikipedia and we'll get right to it. Hell I'll give you my Windows Live Messenger username and do it LIVE!
Posted By: TRUTH (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Hell of an article John, I've felt the exact same way since this title was handed to HHH. You've stated things I've been saying for years...thank you for pointing all this out in an article!!
Posted By: Smo (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:15 AM
The WWE does not state distinctly and clearly that the World Heavyweight Title is a new title. The only basis for this at all is the sole fact that the title lineages are not on the same page on WWE.com. They likely never will be, as writing a list all the way back to 1904 would confuse many new fans with many lineage breaks, and I doubt they want to showcase the reigns of Vince Russo or David Arquette.
Posted By: Mick (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:00 AM
I can solve your little problem about the anaconda vice you have post at the top, i im a brown belt in bjj and have been watching wrestling since i was 2 and the anaconda vice is not technical a bjj hold but it could be one it more of a hybrid of bjj and pro wrestling the anaconda vice is a combo of a bjj head and arm choke/triangle with a top wristlock it is legit and can choke someone out when done right but we do have a hold in bjj called the anaconda choke which looks nothing like the anaconda vice but is also an head and arm choke from a different position just 2 clear things up for you the anaconda vice is a KO submission hold in wrestling and can trace its roots back 2 bjj but not technical a bjj hold and just like alot of wrestling hold is legit
Posted By: Guest#2363 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:20 AM
nice article. Reminds me how perfect WWE's title belt situation was pre-invasion. WWE, IC, Euro, HC, Tag Team, Women and LHW. ever since than its just been a clusterfuck of different titles, variations, unifications, and modifications.
ps. GET RID OF THE FUCKIN SPINNER BELT ALREADY AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS MORE CREDIBLE!
Posted By: joe5566 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:10 AM
I will commend you on the effort however I pretty much knew all this already.
The World title is clearly the WCW title revamped for the WWE... but I can't blame WWE for denying its WCW roots as the WCW brand is percieved as 'inferior' and therefore would devalue its meaning.
I to like to think in WWE denial mode.. because unfortunetly when I think about the WCW belt all I can visualise is David Arquette and Vinnie Russo carrying it around.
Posted By: Andrew Barbarash (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:22 AM
As a follow-up to my last comment... Let it be made clear. A "Belt" is not a "Title". A "Title" is a "Recognition of you being Champion". A "Belt" is only the "Physical Representation" of a "Title". Let me put it to you this way, if I drove my ass to the Staples Center, broke into the Lakers' locker room, and stole the Larry O'Brien Trophy, would that make me the NBA Champion? Hell no. Let me bring this closer to home. With Rhyno supposedly still in possession of the old ECW belt, does that make him the ECW champion? No, because again, a "Belt" is not a "Title". A "Title" is a "Recognition of you being Champion". A "Belt" is only the "Physical Representation" of a "Title".
Posted By: TRUTH (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:25 AM
CM Punk is the WCW Champion!!!
John Cena was the WCW Champion!!
Posted By: Guest#5454 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:49 AM
Hell of an article John, I've felt the exact same way since this title was handed to HHH. You've stated things I've been saying for years...thank you for pointing all this out in an article!!
Posted By: Smo (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:15 AM
Ditto for me.
CM Punk is the WCW Champion!!!
John Cena was the WCW Champion!!
Posted By: Guest#5454 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:49 AM
*That is the 411 comment of the year.
Posted By: Guy Who Enjoyed This Article (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 03:12 AM
The confusion that the WWE causes in regards to their position on the title is the mix-up between 'belt' and 'title'. The belt, as in the physical item that gets carried around, was in fact held by WCW stars like Flair and Sting and the like (until the WWE-ized version that came out in 2003). The TITLE of World Heavyweight Champion under the WWE umbrella doesn't share the same lineage. So when Triple H was awarded the title in 2002, Bischoff was somewhat right when he mentioned that HHH was the last guy to wear it but it refers to the actual belt itself.
Posted By: His Bubbliness (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 04:35 AM
I have argued the same point, with less detail mind you. Thank you for the ammo to revisit the topic again.
Posted By: Allen (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 05:02 AM
I think I remember an interview somewhere where John Cena was talking about the new look for the WWE championship and commented that the WHT should never be changed because it has a long history as the Big Gold Belt
Posted By: BKS (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 05:55 AM
i want my time back
Posted By: Guest#6353 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:22 AM
What he said.
Posted By: Jason (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 06:41 AM
I like the comment someone made about the belt just being a representation of being champion. I have the same wedding ring that my friend has, and that doesn't make me his wife's husband.
That said, I agree with your point about the lineage. The only reason why the World Heavyweight Title is the WCW Title is because of the Lesnar to Smackdown issue. The belt was in dispute at the time, and then the two belts that created the title were reactivated (WWE Title and World Title).
Posted By: Owen (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 07:53 AM
A long, thoughful analysis. Thanks!
But I have always thought of the World Heavyweight Belt as the direct successor to the WCW belt. I mean they look exactly the same.
I know in the WWE's eyes the WWE belt is more prestious because it's defended on Raw. But it gives the non-typical WWE style wrestlers a chance to win a world title. And to me the World Title holder is usually the better wrestler.
I wish the WWE would unify the womens title's and bring back the Cruiserweight Title. In a pg world, women wrestlers who can't wrestle are just dead weight and two titles aren't needed. And it would give the WWE two extra titles that could be defended accross all three brands.
Posted By: mogamer (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 07:56 AM
What you guys fail to realize is that the big gold belt was there way before wCw.
This alone debunks any claim made in this article.
Posted By: Fail (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 08:19 AM
The WWE does not state distinctly and clearly that the World Heavyweight Title is a new title. The only basis for this at all is the sole fact that the title lineages are not on the same page on WWE.com. They likely never will be, as writing a list all the way back to 1904 would confuse many new fans with many lineage breaks, and I doubt they want to showcase the reigns of Vince Russo or David Arquette.
Posted By: Mick (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:00 AM
But they want to showcase Vince McMahon's run as WWE champ? well thats fair since he is SO much more credible as champ than Russo or Arquette. Let's be real, the reason they dont want it to be the same belt is they dont want to recognize WCW's achievements,we all know Vince hates things he didn't create. But at the same time, wants something instantly recognizable for a title at the same time. Why else would you use that belt and try to say it isnt the same belt? We all know where that belt has been, and we all know who owned it before it was in WWE.
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 09:54 AM
"You know somethin' DEAD man??"
What? Don't leave us hanging, yo. :(
Haircut biker 'Taker was decently badass.
Posted By: The Kernel (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 10:23 AM
This comment is for THE TRUTH. Truth you seem very knowledgeable about wrestling and both WCW and WWF history. You argue that holding the championship belt is not the same as the title. Well you should remember Rick Rude as "WCW United States Champion" during his feud with Dustin Rhodes. As the late great Rude said "Possesion is 9/10 of the law"
Posted By: Radtke (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 10:52 AM
the tna title cannot be traced back using the nwa's lineage because they are not the same belt, nor do they claim to be the same. TNA created a brand new title, and was first won in a match with no previous holder.
Posted By: supa sta (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Interesting points. Although I don't entirely agree, I've gotta give you credit, at least you articulated your reasons why you feel the way you do, instead of sanctimoniously referring to it as the "Raw" or "Smackdown" title like some others tend to.
The plan for the Intercontinental Championship heading Raw is probably the most interesting bit of info here. I think I heard something about that briefly, but not in any sort of detail. I don't know if it would've been detrimental to Raw, or would've elevated the title to new heights, but it certainly would've shaken things up. I also don't know if I believe that it was Triple H who killed the idea, but it wouldn't surprise me. Reminded me a little of a similar rumor I've also heard, where he lobbyed to have the Undisputed title belt (the original one that Ric Flair awarded him a week or two after Wrestlemania 18) made bigger because it didn't look big enough to be a World Championship belt (Ironically, Triple H never wore the bigger one before Cena replaced it in 2005). If that's not trying to compensate for something, I don't know what is.
Posted By: BJC (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM
The physical belt isn't the same as the actual title.
Let's set aside the whole 'its all a work' argument for now...and the fact that the lineage of WCWs title is a mess anyway because of their connection to the NWA (because then you start talking about the legitimacy of the real NWA world title and the connection to TNA and the whole topic becomes a dumpster fire) ...the fact is that the lineage of the WCW title ended when it was merged with the WWF title and became the Unified World Title.Period.
They brought back the actual belt and handed it to Trips. So it does have a physical connection to the the old belt.
But the lineage stopped when Y2J won it. And the only confusion thereafter is because they didn't hand Triple H a completely different belt when they created that title for Raw.
Posted By: this needed discussion? (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:30 PM
All this is easily explained if you understand one very simple concept:
A *belt* is different than a "title". It's the same BELT. It's a different TITLE. The belt is the physical strap, the title is the NAME AND STATUS it represents.
Simple as that. Same belt, different title. No further explanation needed.
Posted By: MDK (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:12 PM
The belt made a lengthy appearance in the old WWF years before Vince bought WCW. Remember that after a falling out with management, Ric Flair took the belt to the WWF where it was included in the storylines of that day. Now since I wasn't watching WWF programming back then I don't know what became of the storylines. I simply remember Ric bringing the belt back to NWA/WCW. To me it will always be the WCW heavyweight belt even if the WWE splashes their logo all over it. Now if they completly change the appearance of the belt then the ties to WCW and the NWA will be broken.
Posted By: TNA Mark (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Chris Jericho road to 5 World Championships:
1. defeated The Rock on October 21, 2001 to win the WCW WORLD Championship
2. defeated The Rock on December 9, 2001 to win the WORLD Championship
3. defeated Steve Austin on December 9, 2001 to win the WWF WORLD Championship
4. won Championship Scramble on September 7, 2008 to win the WORLD Heavyweight Championship
5. defeated Batista, in a Steel Cage Match, on November 3, 2008 to win the WORLD Heavyweight Championship
That is how Chris Jericho is a five time, five time, five time, five time, five time WCW, WWF, World Heavyweight Champion, now can you dig that, Parasites?
Posted By: James (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Interesting read with a different way of looking at things. Prepare for fifty comments that amount to "NUH it's not cuz I don't want it to be" and "I hate no ways of lookin at stuff!!!! WAAAA!"
Remember: if you want to be popular writing for the IWC never, ever rock the boat by having an original thought or unique perspective (kind of like how Vince thinks we like our rasslin...)
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Great article! There can be plenty of argument and both sides have points! You've put out a very solid (and I think correct) argument.
The problem is the lineages of the title have been broken, so I wouldn't say we have the true World Title or true WCW Title...they are all offshoots of the orginal NWA World Title. I think the following titlews can all be tied to the NWA World Heavyweight Title: WWE Title, WWE World Heavyweight Title, ECW Title, TNA Title, NWA Title.
*the NWA title is obvious...there is a distinct, if somewhat broken lineage.
*The WWE Title - orginally WWWF / WWF Title...NWA Champion Buddy Rogers loss to Lou Thesz was not recognized by several promoter and they formed the WWWF using Rogers as champion.
*World Heavyweight Title - grew out of the WWF/E Undisputed Title (combination of WWF and WCW Title). I won't repeat your excellent argument here.
*ECW Title - ECW Champion Shane Douglas wins the vacant NWA Title before throwing it away...this may be a weak connection, but it is a connection. In addition, WWE Champion Rob Van Dam is named ECW Champion as well, giving another link
*TNA Title - was the NWA Title. Despite the fact that TNA and NWA broke off, TNA's champions were in control of the NWA title for a number of years. Technically, the NWA stripped Christian of the title before he lost the controversial match with Angle. Therefore, he was the first TNA Champion by virtue of having been the NWA Champion that TNA recognized.
*The WCW also has two links to the NWA Title...Ric Flair was named WCW Champion because he was the NWA Champion. When he left the WCW lineage broke off. Several years later Flair defeated Barry Windham for the NWA Title while wrestling for WCW. NWA and WCW split. WCW continued to recognize Flair (and later Rude and Sting) as a the World Heavyweight Champoin and WCW International World Heavyweight Champion. Several months later now-WCW World Champion defeated WCW International World Heavyweight Champion Sting to unify the two belts.
Of course this is all in the kayfabe world, but that's what makes this fun!
Posted By: cpbasil (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:41 PM
The WHC is not the WCW title. Often on WWE.com, when the history of the title is talked about, what is really meant, is the history of the physical belt. WWE.com is not allowed to use the word 'belt'. The WHC is a spin-off both the WWF and WCW titles.
Posted By: Kiseki (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 01:43 PM
John, great article, but TRUTH brought up a great point, too. I'll look forward to a follow-up from this. Oh, by the way:
-------
What you guys fail to realize is that the big gold belt was there way before wCw.
This alone debunks any claim made in this article.
Posted By: Fail (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 08:19 AM
-------
Would that also debunk the claim (well, statement of truth, really) that John made several times that the belt is traceable to 1904 and the NWA? Just checking...
Posted By: JB Heins (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 02:05 PM
The old saying goes, "If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck. Its probably a duck."
Posted By: Adam (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 02:40 PM
Just to clarify, jericho IS a 5 time world champion.
His 2nd world title win was when he Defeated the rock at vengeance 2001 to become world champion and qualify for the final of the undisputed title tourney (this is the one everyone forgets about)
Then he Defeats steve austin for the wwe title the same night, hence becoming undisputed champion. In other words, since jericho came into the tourney with no world title, he had to win TWO world titles to become undisputed champion.
Posted By: DaJ (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 02:44 PM
If the WWE wanted to create a 2nd World Title and call it the "World Heavyweight Championship", they should've just used the old WWF Winged Eagle belt from late 80's - late 90's. That belt was awesome.
Posted By: Kristian (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 02:45 PM
"I believe the reason the World Heavyweight Title gets singled out is because WWE doesn't want to recognize the fact that another, defunct, promotion's (one that almost put it out of business) World Title is one of their top two championships. "
If they weren't willing to admit it, why did they not get rid of the belt when they introduced the spinner WWE title? They would have a spare title belt, use that
Posted By: Guest#2898 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 02:57 PM
Ummmmm... I thought this was supposed to be pretty clear... How bout a column proving that Isaac Yankem is actually Kane?
Posted By: Justin (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 03:21 PM
I've always considered Jericho to be a 6-time champ.
At Vengeance 2001, he won 3 titles: the WCW title, the WWF title, and in doing so won the newly-created Undisputed Championship (which automatically replaced the WCW and WWF titles, and which is why anyone who held it after that only held the 1 title).
People seem to forget that in getting to the Undisputed title, he had to win 2 other titles 1st.
Add on his WCW title win earlier in '01, and his 2 World Title wins in '08, and you've got his 6 reigns.
Posted By: zappafrank (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 04:27 PM
FABULOUS
Posted By: Guest#0687 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 04:40 PM
Terrible argument. You gave more of a history lesson than an explanation. Just stop trying.
Posted By: Captain_Snackpipe (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 05:50 PM
"Jericho was not given a single title belt to represent the new Undisputed World Championship. Instead he walked around carrying both belts (I think this is how he gets away with claiming he's a five time world champion)."
I, personally, thought it was six times.. And yes, this IS how he gets away with it.
Posted By: save_us.djs (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 05:42 PM
Good article, John. But, to be fair, that video of Bockwinkle explaining the difference between his sleeper and Gagne's sleeper/choke hold ROCKS!
Posted By: NoirFan (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 05:35 PM
i want my time back
Posted By: Guest#6353 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 12:22 AM
What he said.
Posted By: Jason (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 06:41 AM
Nobody forced you two morons to read it
Posted By: Guest#3781 (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 08:33 PM
Here's why the World Heavyweight Championship is not the WCW Championship, nor does it share the same lineage. When WCW ceased to exist, the title became the "World Championship", not "World Heavyweight Championship". It was then unified with the WWF/WWE Championship because there was no sanctioning body behind it and the belt was worthless, thus it was unified to create an undisputed champion.
RAW as a WWE brand is not a sanctioning body that controlled the "World Championship". Thus when Eric Bischoff created the "World Heavyweight Championship", it was a new championship that was recognized physically via a retooled version of an old belt.
You could make the loose case that the WCW Championship lineage extended through the reigns of The Rock and Chris Jericho, but when it was unified with the WWF/E Championship that lineage ended.
If you want a pre-existing example, look at the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship situation. When the NWA withdrew from WCW while Ric Flair was recognized as NWA Champion, the belt became meaningless because the title left it and the NWA recognized a new champion. Thus the WCW International Heavyweight Championship began existance with Ric Flair as champion.
In fact, Flair was also the first recognized WCW Champion, which was recognized when he defeated Sting for the NWA title in January of 1991. The NWA title lineage was not recognized in this instance.
Posted By: Patrick Mullin (Registered) on September 14, 2009 at 09:22 PM
IIRC, WWE.com actually did acknowledge the WCW title history in its world title history for a few months after its (re-)introduction. Of course, it was later split off into its own separate page.
Posted By: HeartBurnKid (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 10:22 PM
How about this:
Vince loves wrestling, always has. He has a heart and has always tried to remain "old school" due to the influence of his father but is also extremely smart and has built an empire out of improving on "old school".
He was coming out of the biggest fight of his life (with WCW) where everything he had previously built was threatened to be reduced to ruins, his family wellfare included. In the aftermath, he got rid of the NWA/WCW title because it had been such a thorn; a knee jerk reaction.
After the cool down period, he realized that the history of the sport was still important and brought the title back the best way he could. In Vince's heart I think he believes the Big Gold Belt is still the same lineage. He has given plenty of hints. He just cant outright state that what he did right after the big victory over Turner was wrong.
Hey if he didnt have a big ego we never would have had Wrestlemania!
Posted By: Jack (Guest) on September 14, 2009 at 11:55 PM
And the point of this "history" lesson is what again?
p.s. i put "history" in quotes because any IWC member already knew where the world belt came from.
Posted By: Guest#2023 (Guest) on September 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM
I think a lot of this confusion would've been avoided if they'd have had Bischoff just came right out and said that since Lesnar took the Undisputed Championship to Smackdown, he was disputing the "Undisputed" nature of the WWE Championship. They could've had him say he went to Vince or the WWE Board of Directors and got approval to split the Undisputed Championship back into the 2 separate titles that were unified. Right there he could claim that he got approval for RAW to have the World (nee WCW) Championship half (and therefore the lineage of the old WCW title,) whereby Smackdown would get to keep the WWE half (and the lineage of the WWE title.)
Simple solution to the problem, says I...
Posted By: Rusty Shackleford (Guest) on September 15, 2009 at 01:37 PM
Weak argument.
WWE.com is very clear in noting that the physical belt has a history dating back to 1904.
But, with a photo you provided, and an article on WWE.com, they acknowledge that the title's new history is 5 years old. They go on to explain everything you've already said.
I get your point, but it makes no sense, since WWE.com makes it very clear.
Posted By: Ant-LOX (Guest) on September 15, 2009 at 06:16 PM
Dumb topic, terrible argument, I am sick of all you morons praising this writer incessantly
Posted By: Guest#2699 (Guest) on September 16, 2009 at 02:15 AM
This is a confusing list
Posted By: Guest#6639 (Guest) on September 28, 2009 at 12:00 AM
How can you say that the WHT is the WCW title. The WWE brought in a TITLE that represents the wwe that is their title no one elses it may look similar but it will never be the wcw title.
P.S. whoever wrote about the spinner belt is totally wrong that is credible because the wwe made it their top belt so it is credible plus it looks cool.
long live the wwe!!!!
Posted By: matthew (Guest) on November 11, 2009 at 05:54 AM