411 Fact or Fiction 10.01.09: Rey's Return, Foley vs. Abyss, Hell in the Cell and More!

Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 10.01.2009

Does Rey Mysterio's upcoming Tag Title match send the wrong message? Are Sting vs. Styles and Angle vs. Morgan big enough matches for Bound For Glory? Would Bret Hart be better in Ring of Honor than in WWE? 411's Jasper Gerretsen and Ari Berenstein debate these topics and more in the latest edition of 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction!



Hello ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another edition of 411 Wrestling Edition of Fact or Fiction! I'm Jeremy Thomas, and we already have another Pay-Per-View to discuss! Plus there are some big events coming out of Ring of Honor, TNA and more. We're going back to a staff vs. staff format for a while, and this week we have Jasper Garretsen of "That Was Then, This Is Too" taking on our Ring of Honor man Ari Berenstein of the Column of Honor. They're raring to go, so let's get right to it!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect WWE, TNA & ROH related questions.

1. Having Rey Mysterio return from suspension directly into a Tag Team Championship match at Hell in the Cell sends the wrong kind of message about the WWE's Wellness Program.



Jasper Gerretsen: FICTION. Having Rey Mysterio as Batista's partner is simply the right choice. They have history as tag champs, and the crowd will instantly buy into them. Furthermore, I simply can't think of another babyface that would be suitable in the same role that isn't already tied up elsewhere. Now I can understand why people think this is sending a bad message, but as far as wellness violations go, Rey's first strike here is pretty low on the ladder. Besides, he already dropped his Intercontinental championship, which I think at this point is enough punishment. I'd have agreed with this statement if Rey had been allowed to hang on to his title through his suspension though.

Ari Berenstein: FICTION. I'm all for treating the Wellness Policy seriously and sending the right kind of message to the talent. I really do hope that these measures have helped to reduce the drug and steroid abuse in WWE, although I remain cynical as to the actual results. However, in this case, I don't see anything wrong with the treatment of the return of Rey Mysterio. He will have served his one-month suspension by the time he comes back to action for the Hell in the Cell Pay Per View. There were some quibbles (or as some might say, "excuses") from Rey as to what caused the suspension in the first place, but ultimately he and WWE took the steps needed to deal with the issue. He served his time on suspension and now he gets to move on from there.

Score: 1 for 1

2. Mick Foley's feud with Abyss that is likely leading up to a Bound for Glory match is a good matchup given poor execution and booking.

Ari Berenstein: FACT. Despite the fact that THEY ARE FEUDING OVER A PICTURE (someone put that on a sign ala the Booker T / Edge "Shampoo" match from Wrestlemania X8) and crammed at least three months worth of angles into one show to get to yet another (yawn) Mick Foley turn, I expect these two will work well in a match. Foley may have faltered in a match against Kurt Angle, who works a faster pace than him, or against Kevin Nash, who had the psychology but not quite the execution, these two are far more complimentary in in-ring style. Abyss is basically the 21st century Mick Foley in that he will take a lot of punishment, bleed and suffer and ultimately comes out more over in the process. I think both have in them at least one good "hardcore" style match against each other.

Jasper Gerretsen: FACT. A Mick Foley/Abyss match seems good on paper, but is Mick being upset about a destroyed picture really the most logical way they could think of booking this match? I had honestly forgotten all about the carricature, and I simply can't accept that this is somehow Foley's most prized possession. Something like "the original Cactus Jack wanted poster" I could've bought, but the carricature just seems like a stupid thing to get truly upset about. With both wrestlers' backgrounds in hardcore matches, they could have done so much more to build up to this match than they have now.

Score: 2 for 2

3. None of the three Hell in the Cell matches (DX/Legacy, Punk/Taker, Orton/Cena) this Sunday have much chance of living up to the reputation of the gimmick.

Jasper Gerretsen: FICTION. While I'm worried about the Punk/Taker match because of Taker's health, I think the other two can still live up to the gimmick. Cena seems to shine in environments like this, with his brutal Last Man Standing matches against Umaga at the 2007 Royal Rumble and Edge at this year's Backlash as great examples. Even his Falls Count Anywhere match with The Great Kahli at the 2007 One Night Stand was better than anyone expected. My main concern is that WWE seems to have something against Orton looking like any kind of threat when actually facing anyone important. I liked the last DX HiaC match against Vince, Shane and Big Show, and if Legacy is able to man up and brawl with DX on equal footing, I think it'll be great.

Ari Berenstein: FICTION. I know the conventional wisdom would be that three in a row of this type of gimmick match will water down each match. However, I like the odds that at least one of these matches will live up to the hype. Actually I think DX and Legacy is the best shot of having a crazy grudge style cage match befitting the gimmick. WWE has done this feud right over the last two months and mostly because Rhodes and DiBiase have been allowed to have  D-X's number. They dominated HHH several times on TV so its believable they can win a match like this--and I think that will allow the fans to buy into that match and increase its drama. As far as the title bouts, IF Undertaker is willing to go all out against CM Punk and there is a finish that isn't the Montreal Screwjob, that match will play out well. Cena vs. Orton chapter 2,091? Well, its hard to imagine more of a brutal beating for Cena than what happened last month in the I-Quit match at Breaking Point. I think that one has the best chance of being an underwhelming let down. All told though, I still think the odds are in the favor of having successful Cell matches on this show.

Score: 3 for 3

4. Jim Cornette's return to Ring of Honor will be a huge boost to the company, from both a creative and production standpoint.

Jasper Gerretsen: FACT. Jim Cornette is a legend in both fields, with an incredible amount of experience. While I think HDNet has been doing a fine job on the technical part of the production, I still think the execution, especially on their DVDs, could be a bit more polished, and Cornette is the perfect guy to point out all the small things that can make a huge difference in the final product. As for the booking, there have been a lot of complaints about Adam Pearce's booking over the past few months, and while I think that most of it is undeserved, having a genius like Cornette participate in the creative process can only be a boon.

Ari Berenstein: FACT. I don't know how much Cornette will contribute to booking, but even if he only tweaks Adam Pearce's ideas and gives advice to the boys in the back that is a tremendous advantage that makes it well worth it to bring him in. ROH needs an added X-Factor and if they can't do it by signing big name wrestling talent / free-agents (although as an aside, why they haven't landed Kendrick or London baffles me) maybe they can do it by adding to their creative team. Cornette is someone who was praised by many of the young talent in TNA as helping them out in recent months. He was the man behind the recent TNA number one contender tournament and the Knockouts tag tournament, both of which were successes. Cornette can help accentuate strengths, hide weaknesses and bring a sense of the "must see" to whatever he books. ROH certainly is helped with the hiring of a man who can do all of that and more. Just limit Cornette's in-ring promos to ten minutes or less--I love the man discussing just about everything in shoot interviews and the like, but let's keep the focus on the wrestling action more than talking and we'll be just fine.

Score: 4 for 4


SWITCH!

5. Vince McMahon's on-screen endorsement of Drew McIntyre will turn out far better than his endorsement of Elijah Burke did.



Ari Berenstein: FACT. I guess the operative word is "far" in "far better than . . . Elijah Burke." How much is far better? Is that NOT leading an unsuccessful stable on the C-show, NOT disappearing for months on end with no reasonable explanation given and then NOT getting released? If so, then I'm buying that McIntyre's future....er, endeavors will turn out to be not going to TNA, but rather being a decent role player mid card heel ala a Dolph Ziggler.

Jasper Gerretsen: FICTION. So far, Drew McIntyre has done absolutely nothing to impress. When Vince endorsed Burke, it basically set him up as the leader of the New Breed, the stable that was supposed to be the future of ECW. Of course Matt Striker is the only member of that stable that would last for any significant amount of time (but then again, the ECW Originals turned out to have pretty much the same longevity). I really dug McIntyre when they brought him in with Dave Taylor the first time around, but that went nowhere too, and so far I simply haven't seen any signs that this time around things will be any different.

Score: 4 for 5

6. AJ Styles vs. Sting and Kurt Angle vs. Matt Morgan are sufficiently important match-ups for Bound for Glory.



Jasper Gerretsen: FACT. I honestly think that this is probably the best way they could've gone about booking the top of the card. They worked very hard to make AJ's title win seem like a big deal, and with the way they built to the title match at No Surrender and the way the finish of that match played out, putting AJ against Sting seems like the logical conclusion. While it seems that Sting winning the title at Bound for Glory seems to have been a law of nature, I really hope that AJ goes over here. As for the Angle/Morgan match, Matt Morgan seems to be the only fresh thing around whose push hasn't been screwed up yet. A win against Angle would be a great way to truly establish him in the main event scene, provided of course that the finish is clean.

Ari Berenstein: FACT. First I should note that Matt Morgan has never been someone I've wanted to watch in a wrestling ring. I feel he has always been over-hyped and underwhelming. Nonetheless, TNA has taken the proper steps in giving the guy a consistent push. The story with Angle has played out for a while now and so the storyline justifies the booking of the match on this show. Plus, it takes Kurt Angle out of the main event title scene for at least a month and since he has dominated the TNA title for over half a year now I think taking a break from Angle in title matches is a nice breath of fresh air. On the other hand, Lo and behold, Sting is once again in a main event at Bound For Glory--seen this before. However, AJ Styles and Sting works because its been a good long time since they've fought against each other and they usually do work well together. So I don't have any issues whatsoever with these matches.

Score: 5 for 6

7. The Rock's pre-taped promo is likely to be the highlight of the tenth anniversary SmackDown this Friday.

Ari Berenstein: FICTION. I think Rock will be one of the highlights of the show, but not THE highlight. Let's face it, Rock's appearances have been very rare, but they are invariably the same--he make some funny jokes, says his catchphrases and puts over the WWE product as best as he can. However, since he is not likely to ever return to the ring again, I can only get so excited for his appearances, because ultimately they are one and done. I am far more anticipating the eight-man tag match (ironically featuring six wrestlers from Raw) with Cena, D-X and Undertaker vs. Orton, Legacy and CM Punk. Eight-man tags are almost without exception awesome, and if they give this one some time it could end up being a hell of an outing given the talent involved and the need for a hard sell on the Hell in the Cell PPV. One more X-factor to consider is that you don't quite know what else WWE has up its sleeve for milestone shows such as this one, so there may actually be a topper like a Bret Hart appearance or a bizzare skit that comes out of nowhere and ends up being the talk of the internet come Saturday morning.

Jasper Gerretsen: FICTION. I'm speakin with the advantage of having read the spoilers here, although I'll do my best to keep things to a minimum. The announcement made by The Rock is certainly a big deal, but it seems like all the backstage zaniness will end up coming off much better, considering some of the names that will be appearing. A live appearance by The Great One as part of these shenanigans likely would have been the highlight here, but a pre-taped promo won't be.

Score: 6 for 7

8. You would rather see Bret Hart become a Ring of Honor Ambassador than make a return to the WWE in an on-screen role.

Ari Berenstein: FICTION.Ah, this is some sort trick question they gave me because I'm the Ring of Honor guy, right? Jeremy, I see you behind the curtain with the soap and the digital video camera! First of all, I still believe there is a very slim (meaning almost no) chance that either of these eventualities occurs, despite the heavier rumors of Hart's return to WWE as well as his several autograph signings for ROH. I just don't know how Hart will ever co-exist with WWE for a long period of time that an on-screen role would require. On a personal note I don't think I would be able to stand seeing Hart being used and abused in storyline, or playing a heel role--not after all the things he's been through. As for ROH, they have done the "ambassador" role before and given the fiasco that it turned out to be with Ric Flair, I'd rather they not go there again. Let ROH concentrate on the talent of the future and furthermore, let WWE do the same. But to answer the question, given the choice between the two, I'd rather see Hart return to WWE in an on-screen role, if just for the history in the making. I've been witness to Shawn Michael's miracle comeback of 2002 onwards and I've seen the insanity of Eric Bischoff joining the WWE. I've seen Bret Hart return to participate in a WWE DVD and the Hall of Fame, but aside from one or two video features, he's stayed away from the on-air goings on. As much as I hate to see what happens to him, actually to see it happen would be quite the moment that would live on in wrestling lore for a long time afterwards.

Jasper Gerretsen: FICTION. From what we've seen so far, the role of Ring of Honor Ambassador mostly seems to be coming out, cutting promos and walking back, and the occasional autograph session. They've had plenty of legends briefly play that role before. It doesn't seem to involve any actual ambassadorial work (appearing in media and stuff like that). Meanwhile, I think Bret Hart could be a huge boost to the WWE product. While his mic work has never been stellar, attaching them to a couple of young stars like the Hart Dynasty will still be a huge boost to them simply because of his legendary status.

Score: 7 for 8

Almost a perfect score between these two guys…it's been a while since we've seen something like that! Great answers from both men and I would like to thank them for participating, and you our loyal readers for reading! Next week we'll have more staff members doing battle over questions, all for YOUR reading pleasure. Come back then for more 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction!

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