411mania.com: Wrestling - The Hamilton Ave Journal 10.22.09: Volume 2

david would like to counter where the Rock stands on the pedestal of stars:

The Rock was/is bigger than Austin. His movies open up at #1, while Austin is headed straight to DVD.

In mainstream media for sure—in terms of wrestling merchandise, the two were close but Austin's returns, Hall of Fame Induction, and DVD sets since retiring have probably helped push him over the edge.

Iron Knee was not the only one stirring up debate. Last week, Scott Rutherford filled in for the Journal with The Wrestling Guide. Special thanks to Scott for picking up the reigns, and then to Gillberg on his thoughts on the current product:

I've been saying for a while that I think the best thing to freshen up the product is to go back to the late 80s/early 90s product. If you think about it, Vince isn't too far off of it now...PG rating, no blood, no real heavy use of weapons anymore -- take that and run with it! Remember the days when someone bleeding was huge, people getting hit with a chair/belt and kicking out was amazing, and Vince actually gave us wrestling matches instead of 30 min promos that involve him or his son-in-law? Yeah...I think that'd work excellently.

The early 90's, though, were not great financially for the WWE. After 1993, the WWE came under some real pressure and was on the verge of insolvency by 1996. They turned the company around to make it into a $490 million a year organization, and they continue to be more profitable in these tough times with lower revenue. Given that, is the WWE on a better track now then they were during the era you have elevated?

MDK is someone who is not stuck with his mind in the past:

Your opinion about bringing back Jobber matches to RAW is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a long time. Let the past GO. Wrestling is fun the way it is right now. People will always complain because they have nothing better to do. When RAW was scoring in the 6.0 range, many people still complained! I didn't like wrestling during the Attitude Era as much as I do now, so I really don't want another "Boom Period" anyway. Still boggles my mind as to why people care how many other people are watching.

The Journal cares greatly because it is a leading indicator of how much the WWE will be paid for their programming and how much leverage they have in negotiations. Right now, despite being one of the highest rated shows on cable every week they are in a much weaker position then in 1999/2000.

Plenty more was written, so be sure to take a look. And if you enjoy the Journal, why not bookmark 411mania.com and make it your home page? You can do that by clicking here.

CLOSING BELL

This concludes Issue #108 (Volume 2) of THE HAMILTON AVE JOURNAL. Join us next week as we get ready to ring the bell again.

Till then!

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Comments (14)

MDK: "Still boggles my mind as to why people care how many other people are watching."
If you like the product, this is very important. More revenues mean that the product which you say you prefer will be mostly unchanged. Low ratings inevitably mean change as companies search for winning formulas.
It also speaks of wider acceptance of wrestling in society. During the Monday Night Wars, people actually talked about wrestling without feeling lowbrow.

Posted By: Guest#3863 (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 12:12 AM

"ron Knee wanted to continue his thoughts on just what is the wrestling demographic:

The Rock may be of more recent vintage, but he was in no way bigger than Austin. Furthermore, the Rock only became a huge star when he deracinated himself, thus allowing the audience to see him as The Rock rather than a man of mixed heritage. I stand by my assertion that a substantial number of wrestling fans are bigoted. All that you need to prove this point is to look at how McMahon deals with black, Samoan, and Latino wrestlers. Look at the characters they portray and tell me that the WWE doesn't know its audience."

There are other viable alternatives to explain why the WWE writes this way. The audience may actually be watching in spite of how the WWE writes and books. I don't think anybody watches because of how Cryme Tyme is portrayed - a portrayal to which they agreed. Somoans have been believable as monsters because the ones hired are freakin' huge and they have been booked that way.
First, these are stock characters that the WWE uses. Sure, the past that they are tied to is ugly, but those writing may not even think of that. There is the attitude of "don't fix what isn't broken" and if people don't understand that something is broken, they don't use the mental energy to look for alternatives.
Second, look at the way white people are marketed. Tyler Reks, idiot surfer dude. Brits often snobby stuck up pricks. Triple H - Preppy snob.
On the other hand, Eddie Guerrero was portrayed as cool.
Third, how exactly are you going to use Manu after those facial tattoos? Psycho dentist? Plumber? Heartthrob to women and gays? Emo junkie?
It should be pointed out that Cryme Tyme are modeled after the characters in rap videos and some black movies. While I don't think those are great stereotypes, it is entirely plausible that WWE looks at what sells in pop culture for character ideas- and rap sells.
Since the WWE isn't hiring the best Hollywood writers, it is more than believable that not a lot of mental energy is spent on developing fresher character types.

Eddie was unreservedly Latino (Heat!). He got a world title and was in line for another. He could also connect with the crowd. Chavo and Shelton Benjamin do not.
Mentally lazy/limited can look like racism.

Posted By: Guest#0650 (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM

lol it doesnt matter cuz The Godfather and Cryme Tyme and Razor Ramon are like amongst the most popular wrestlers of all time regarding black people,man.

I think minorities like being represened in any capacity tbh..ut has to be extremley negative to get a real reaction.

I know cuz im dominican and both black and latino..

Not gonna lie I could stand to see more hispanic heavyweight performers in both TNA and WWE.

Posted By: MacDollarz. (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 12:52 AM

The ROck is more popular because he is known worldwide while Austin might not really be recognized in countries people dont like wrestling per se.

The Rock was a movie star level celebrity even before the movies!The only wrestler even comparable to Hogan.

I think Rocky was marketed as a Hawaain guy or even a "mixed" champion.

Rarley a black champion and yes it did help him being "Mixed" as oppsed to just black...as in most cases in life.

Posted By: MacDollarz. (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 12:57 AM

Here is a tidbit to dabble into...

TNA got a little over 2,000 fans to go to see their 'showcase PPV' Bound for Glory live, with only over 850 fans actually paying to get in the door.

Posted By: Trusting (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 01:21 AM

"Even if the majority of people are redneck/white trash"

They aren't... unless you consider all white people to be white trash, which is probably common on this site after reading through the politics section.

Posted By: Anonymous (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 05:09 AM

Regarding Impact on Virgin 1: This is potentially a very big move for TNA, and I'm surprised they didn't emphasise this more in their press release. Virgin 1 is, as they note, available on Freeview (i.e. free-to-air digital broadcasting), whereas Bravo is only available to Sky/Cable subscribers. They have suddenly made their program available to a signficantly larger number of people, and by the time that analogue TV is completely switched off in the UK in 2012 (this has already happened in some places), everyone in the UK with a TV will have access to TNA. This might give them a chance to become a bigger name in the UK than WWE.

Posted By: BringTheNoise (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 05:46 AM

Cryme Tyme and The Godfather are excellent examples of the bigoted nature of the WWE braintrust and much of their fanbase. I wonder how many black. Latino, or Asian writers work for the WWE? I bet the number is quite low.

Also, just because some people of color find it acceptable does not mean it's so. Steppin Fetchit thought his negative portrayal of blacks was just peachy, but it helped whites justify their mistreatment of blacks. The WWE needs to be more responsible in terms of its presentation of ethnic minorities, especially if they are intent on marketing to children.

As to the inability of Shelton and Chavo to get over, DiBiase and Rhodes arfe eqaully as bland on the mike, yet they've been given numerous chances to win fan support.

Posted By: Iron Knee (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 09:54 AM

Most major companies change their brand on a regular basis. Fast food restaurants became more health conscience, until there was a backlash at which time they introduced new items that were more unhealthy than anything before (Wendy's - allowed you to choose baked potatoes or apple slices instead of fries - but then introduced the Baconactor).

The WWE has refocused their product numerous times - sometimes on a small scale and sometimes on a larger scale. What I call the "Doink the Clown" era was followed by the "Attitude" era, which was followed by the WCW/ECW acquisitions and the Raw/Smackdown eras. And now we are in the PG era. Will it last? How long will it last? Will they it make those non-PG moments more exciting?

Frankly - the best thing that the WWE can offer right now is unpredictability. I think they are recognizing that their product had become predictable (Orton, Cena, HHH). I want to say the last major face/heel switch was Jericho - more than a year ago. I think that the WWE is setting up potential major events, especially leading up to WrestleMania, in order to "pop" their product.

When Cena came back for the Royal Rumble last year - the casual fans turned in for at least a few weeks. Edge could be coming back soon. Is an HBK heel turn possible? Will we see some blood in upcoming events?

If the WWE starts to deliver surprises - they have a chance to reenergize their product. But they need to be careful and do it before their core audience is alienated.

Posted By: BobbyC (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 10:33 AM

Its an obscure biz type question..but what are your opinions on the Wrestling and MMA market vis-a-vis Shane maybe trying to enter these..Do you think they are saturated already?? Stuff like barriers to entry, the economic conditions a small 6 factor / Porter like analysis...i mean for all I know he might just decide to chill for a year or two...but it allows me to get a business view and sp. your view on these markets..

Posted By: Indianguy (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM

While the Hispanic audience is a growing market for the WWE, I stand by my point - the majority of fans are lower middle class conservatives who don't follow their love of the WWE on the internet.
For example, think of how different last Monday's Raw would have seemed had the arena been full of the IWC.
Growls and laughter for the Katie Vick reference? check
Boos at HHH referring to sleeping his way to the top? Check

Instead the crowd stood there and did NOTHING, because unlike the spoiler reading-leak finding-column reading, comment posting-IWC, they know NONE of these things.
I went to WM25 and I don't care how much the tickets were, there were plenty of NASCAR lovin'-truck drivin'-rasslin' fans. And guess what? they don't get inside references, barely know the wrestlers 'behind the curtain', and are typically white/conservative/middle class.
Don't believe me? try going to a house show (not a live taping of Raw/Smackdown in a top 25 market) and tell me what you see....
O and the Rock had a broader impact in pop culture (movies, comedy promos, interviews), but Austin had a deeper impact within the business (more iconic moments as a wrestler).
It is similar to how the Rock n Wrestling connection had a broader pop culture impact, while the attitude era had a deeper impact on the rasslin business (higher ratings, rise of ECW and WCW, etc)

Posted By: thedick203 (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 06:48 PM

"The early 90's, though, were not great financially for the WWE. After 1993, the WWE came under some real pressure and was on the verge of insolvency by 1996."

Disappointed to see you've bought into the McMahon's revisonist history on this, as they took on the might of Big Bad Ted Turner. "On the verge" is a BIG stretch, Mr Prag. Can I suggest you research properly and back up with stats rather than relying on hearsay?

Posted By: Klaus (Guest) on October 23, 2009 at 05:40 AM

"As to the inability of Shelton and Chavo to get over, DiBiase and Rhodes arfe eqaully as bland on the mike, yet they've been given numerous chances to win fan support."

Are you suggesting that neither Shelton nor Chavo have? Chavo, in particular, has been given more chances than virtually anyone of his standing I can think of. Feuds with Eddie, Rey, Punk, association with Vickie and Edge. Extended runs with the ECW and Cruiserweight belts, as well as a shoter reign as Tag Champ. Sure, he deserved better than jobbing to Hornswaggle every week, but it's not like they haven't previously made an effort with him. Hell, even the Kerwin White stuff was an attempt to get him over.

Posted By: BringTheNoise (Guest) on October 23, 2009 at 11:19 AM

"This might give them a chance to become a bigger name in the UK than WWE."

Posted By: BringTheNoise (Guest) on October 22, 2009 at 05:46 AM
___________________________________

I thought that. I also thought, it puts them more or less head to head with the first hour of Smackdown on a usual week, and head-to-head with the whole show on those occasions that Sky Sports air SD at 9/9.30pm

All that being said, I don't think many people actually watch Virgin right now, but I do think TNA will be a huge ratings deal for them. Can you imagine all the old wrestling fans/young fans just getting into it who don't have Sky/Cable suddenly finding a free wrestling show?

Maybe I'm just being optimistic

Posted By: Jack Conner (Guest) on October 23, 2009 at 03:37 PM