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411’s Instant Access 10.25.09: WWE Bragging Rights 2009
Posted by Scott Slimmer on 10.26.2009



Hey kids, I'm Scott, and this is 411's Instant Access: WWE Bragging Rights 2009. 411's Instant Access is the companion piece to 411 Live Pay-Per-View Coverage and features immediate reaction to wrestling pay-per-views. The focus in Instant Access is on first thoughts and initial reactions instead of play-by-play with the goal of providing you with instant access to one two three four FIVE writers' thoughts on the show. That's right, Instant Access will now feature multiple analysts for all WWE pay-per-views. Here's the team for Bragging Rights:

Scott Slimmer, author of Don't Think Twice. Tonight, Slimmer is enjoying a Pumpkin Pie Blizzard Treat from Dairy Queen.
Chris Lansdell, author of A Brace for Impact and If I Could Be Serious For A Moment. Lansdell still cries at the end of Million Dollar Baby.
Rob McNew, author of 411's WWE Raw Report and 411's WWE Superstars Report. McNew can only name 48 of the 50 United States. (He keeps forgetting Connecticut and Oklahoma.)
Jeremy Thomas, editor of 411's Wrestler of the Week and author of The Hush-Hush Movie News Report. Thomas once at 37 Steak Baja Chalupas at a single sitting.
Jeff Small, author of the Tuesday Small-For-All News Report. Small once killed a man in Reno just to watch him die.


Okay kids, enough with the explanations. Let's get to the wrestling.



Raw vs. Smackdown Non-Title Champion vs. Champion Bragging Rights Match
The Miz (United States Champion, representing Raw) vs. John Morrison(Intercontinental Champion, representing Smackdown)
Match Result: The Miz defeats John Morrison after countering Starship Pain.
Match Length: 10:51
Match Analysis:
Slimmer: I was really looking forward to this match, and it was a smart choice to open the show, but somehow I felt that the match ended up being a bit underwhelming. There was nothing especially wrong with the match except for possibly some marginally sloppy work in the middle, but there was also nothing especially compelling about the match. The match was building nicely, but then it ended rather abruptly and quite anticlimactically. I've got no problem with Miz picking up the win, but I don't see any reason why he couldn't have hit the Skull Crushing Finale. Losing to Miz wouldn't have done any real damage to Morrison (especially since Miz is on a different show), but Miz could have gotten a ton of mileage out of bragging about defeating Morrison (which, in fairness, he probably will anyway). Anyway, this is probably the end of this little feud for the moment, but I'd love to see these guys rekindle their rivalry at some point in the future.
Lansdell: I was all about this match, having high hopes going in...which were not fully realized. I mean sure it was good, but I was really expecting a show-stealer. Miz has grown so much in the ring, and Morrison is the most promising guy on the blue brand. The match did a lot to open the show though, set the tone for SmackDown's eventual win and was a nice pulse-raiser. I did feel it ended just as it was getting strong, but the problem with this PPV is that this match and the women's match won't mean anything as of tomorrow night.
McNew: The match itself was pretty good, although nothing spectacular. I would have liked to see these two do more but given the format of the pay per view that just wasn't possible. Morrison is definitely ahead of Miz since the break up so the result was certainly logical. The finish however was incredibly underwhelming, and certainly drags down the overall quality.
Thomas: This was a pretty good match, and a good start to open the show. Miz and Morrison have excellent chemistry in the ring and they showed it here with some very decent offense. They gave them the time to tell a good story. There was some excellent timing, such as the foot on the ropes right as the ref's hand was coming down, but weak and underwhelming finish hurt it just a touch.
Small: Color me surprised at the outcome of this match. You figured that Morrison would have gotten the win seeing as he's on a fast train to the main event scene and just knocked off another golden boy in Dolph Ziggler. Then you realize that the Miz is a walking heat magnet and needs the win much more than Morrison. Good match, good result.
Match Rating:
Slimmer: **¾
Lansdell: ***
McNew: **½
Thomas: ***
Small: ***
Average Match Rating: **¾



Raw vs. Smackdown Six Diva Tag Team Bragging Rights Match
Melina, Gail Kim, & Kelly Kelly (Team Raw) vs. Michelle McCool, Beth Phoenix, and Natalya Neidhard (Team Smackdown)
Match Result: Beth Phoenix defeats Melina with the Glam Slam.
Match Length: 6:53
Match Analysis:
Slimmer: It's no secret that the Divas division on both Raw and Smackdown has been in a downward spiral as of late, and as such my expectations for this match were quite low. However, much to my surprise, this wasn't just a passable match – it was actually a good match. The action was fast-paced, there were no major botches, and Melina countering a slingshot suplex into a roll-up was hella sweet. However, the quality of this match does raise one alarming question – is Mickie James really to blame for the low quality of her recent matches? I LOVE Mickie, and I still think she's the hottest Diva on the roster, but is it time to finally admit that we might not be able to blame the other Divas for pulling her down? But I digress. Like I said, good match here, but unfortunately the result was never in question due to the fact that we all knew that Raw and Smackdown had to be tied going into the big tag match later in the night.
Lansdell: I said at the start of this match that the SD women would win on paper, and of course there was NO WAY they would have Raw win in two and make the 14-man mean nothing. Melina and Beth were the stars of this show, working some great counters and generally putting on a better match than a lot of the men could manage. Of course they are now on different shows so we won't see that again. Hopefully we also don't see Michelle McStyles again. We barely saw Gail and Natalya but the match was still darn good and was the sorbet of the card...a nice little palate-cleanser.
McNew: This was better than it had any right being. No noticeably botches, and it was kept short enough that nothing really dragged. Beth got the pin on Melina, and looked very strong in the process so one could assume she's shooting right to the top of the SD title picture.
Thomas: That was literally as good as it could have possibly been. No one botched anything and it all came down pretty decently when all was said and done. Triple K and Gail kept things fairly sharp, and while the screaming from Kelly and Melina got to be a bit much I actually rather enjoyed this for what it was.
Small: Obvious winner here after the Miz picked up the victory in the first match. Even so, I was impressed with the quality of this match. Nothing was botched so perhaps Mickie James is the culprit for the recent trend of sloppy women's matches. ~@~ (that's gmail poop)
Match Rating:
Slimmer: **½
Lansdell: **¾
McNew: **¼
Thomas: **½
Small: **½
Average Match Rating: **½



Fatal Four Way Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
The Undertaker (Champion) vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk
Match Result: The Undertaker defeats Batista with the Tombstone Piledriver.
Match Length: 9:53
Match Analysis:
Slimmer: The match itself was certainly enjoyable, but what I'm really going to remember is the AMAZING post-match segment / promo in which Batista delivered what will undoubtedly be the 2009 Quote of the Year – "I'm gonna rip your head off." Batista has been teasing a heel turn ever since he lost to Rey Mysterio two weeks ago on Smackdown, and I'm glad that he was allowed to pull the trigger. However, given that Batista ate the pin, I'm concerned that he's going to move on to a feud with the Undertaker rather than continuing to focus on Rey Mysterio. We've heard rumors that an Undertaker / Batista feud is in the works, and that might eventually be interesting now that Batista has turned heel. But there is still a lot of life left in the Batista / Mysterio feud, and I hope they're given the chance to tell the story properly.
Lansdell: This match reminded me a lot of Angle-Orton-Mysterio from Mania 22. It was fast-paced, had a ton of action and felt a lot shorter than it was at the end of it all. The surprising thing is that the match had two slower, bigger guys in it! I thought everyone except Taker brought their working boots, understandable if Taker's injuries are as bad as we're told. He was largely restricted to chokeslams and trademark spots. I have no idea who goes for the title next, since Punk really needs to step away from losing to Taker all the time. The Batista turn is about 2 years late and was so transparent it lost something...but was still awesome because of how casually Batista told Rey he was going to decapitate him.
McNew: This was nothing more than a vehicle to set up the Batista heel turn, and given everything else going on the card I'm fine with that. The match was a fun multi man match with the dynamic of the Batista heel turn constantly building leading to very logical turn post match. Match itself wasn't anything to write home about, and Taker as Champion still bugs me but a title change would have been lost in the post match shenanigans anyway.
Thomas: Okay, so this started out pretty decently. It was paced all right, and there was some fun stuff. On the other hand, I feel like there were some things that drug it down. Taker had his moments but he was also struggling. He gave the weakest sell of the 619 that I've ever seen, basically standing up, turning around and walking away from it. Add in some spots in the match that seemed disjointed and the match was decent, but not great. The booking decision was stupid, because Taker is obviously in no shape to carry the title. They could have put it on Rey Rey or Punk and still done the angle at the end, so that doesn't score any leeway with me. On the other hand, the post-match angle was great, and Big Dave turning on Rey was something I loved. In the end, this was a subpar match for a Pay-Per-View but it lead into a hot angle, so that earns it about half a point.
Small: Fun match. While there was nothing classic about it, it was an enjoyable mid-card match that allowed each of the four competitors to look good during the match. Thankfully, the WWE didn't hotshot the belt back to CM Punk as the belt needs a few months of stability again. In addition, to the correct ending, I think we are all glad that Batista finally tuned on Rey, albeit after the match. While the execution of the angle was a little awkward (really a promo after the match with both men's heavy breathing), Batista's "I'm going to rip your head off" line was well worth the price of admission.
Match Rating:
Slimmer: ***
Lansdell: ***½
McNew: **½
Thomas: **¾
Small: ***
Average Match Rating: ***



Raw vs. Smackdown Seven-on-Seven Bragging Rights Match
Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Big Show, Mark Henry, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, & Cody Rhodes (Team Raw) vs. Chris Jericho, Kane, Matt Hardy, R-Truth, Finlay, David Hart Smith, and Tyson Kidd (Team Smackdown)
Match Result: Chris Jericho defeats Kofi Kingston after Big Show betrays team Raw.
Match Length: 15:38
Match Analysis:
Slimmer: Much like the previous three matches on the card, there wasn't anything necessarily wrong about this match, but there wasn't anything necessarily right about it, either. There just seemed to be too many men with not enough to do. I mean, it's been less than two hours, and I seriously can't remember if Mark Henry or R-Truth did anything in the match. I remember HBK and DHS being in the ring together, mostly because one of them may or may not have slept with the other one's mother, and I remember Big Show turning on KK and HHH, but that's about it. And in the end, is the Big Show heel turn really all that important given that he was, you know, ALREADY A HEEL? I guess the bottom line is that I want pay-per-view matches to mean something, and I'm just not sure that was the case here.
Lansdell: I could not get myself into this match for most of it, although the last few minutes really made up for it. There were a lot of interactions that could have meant more had the announcers mentioned history, but of course we're not supposed to acknowledge most of that. I still think an elimination would have worked better, but in hindsight it would have gone on WAY too long. For some reason I didn't see the Show turn coming, but it made sense and put Jericho over as a mastermind. I didn't mind this at all, and once the pace picked up it was good. I thought Kofi was going to be made to look great wen HHH got the hot tag to him, but that didn't last.
McNew: Much like the rest of the undercard this match was really fun, but nothing to write home about. It was merely here to set up a JeriShow-DX feud which is fine by me even if the Show turn was very predictable. Bonus points go to Jericho for his post match celebration with the cup which made up for any drawbacks this one might have had. Also nice swerve with the trophy not ending up destroyed.
Thomas: This was actually a pretty good match. It went a good amount of time and wasn't sold short, and everyone had their moments to shine. It could have been a complete mess of a match, but they let it go and everyone looked pretty good. The ending "swerve" was predictable but it still played off very well and the post-match celebration was pretty cool. Does Show go to SmackDown now, or does he become an uber-heel on Raw? Either way, I enjoyed this for the most part.
Small: Like the previous match, the seven on seven match was an enjoyable mid-card match. I'm glad that this was not the main event of the show as it really wasn't built up enough. Really, is bragging rights or a trophy (which wasn't mentioned until tonight) worth it? Throw in the fact that no fan cheers a brand; rather, the faces were cheered and Chris Jericho was booed. Due to these reasons, if this was the main event, I think the PPV would have ended on a sour note. But thankfully it did not. As for the match, I'm glad each man got a few seconds to at least get their finisher off. Before the match, I was afraid that it would be impossible to showcase all fourteen men but at least the WWE tried. In the end, the Big Show "predictably" turned on Kofi helping Team Smackdown defeat Raw. I would assume that a form of DX vs. JeriShow will now happen at Survivor Series, which is fine in my book.
Match Rating:
Slimmer: ***¼
Lansdell: **¾
McNew: ***
Thomas: ***¼
Small: ***
Average Match Rating: ***



One Hour Anything Goes Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
Randy Orton(Champion) vs. John Cena
Match Result: John Cena defeats Randy Orton by a score of 6 – 5.
Match Length: 60:12
Match Analysis:
Slimmer: I honestly have no idea how to rate this match. Part of me really wants to give credit to both guys for going one full hour, regardless of how they did or did not fill that hour. But part of me can't overlook the flaws in the pacing or the incredibly cartoonish booking in the middle. The first twenty minutes of the match were quite good, and I had high hopes when Cena and Orton began to make their way up the ramp. But then Orton went all Wile E. Coyote with the pyro control panel, and seriously, where do you go with a match when you've still got thirty minutes to burn and one guy has already tried to BLOW UP his opponent? The answer, as it turns out, is that you slow the match way the hell down for ten minutes, and then have Orton run like hell for five more minutes (which may be totally in character and make perfect sense from a storyline point of view, but is still boring to watch). But here's the real problem. I loved the Cena / Orton match from Breaking Point, and I liked the Cena / Orton match from Hell in a Cell, but this big blow-off match didn't come close to either of those two previous matches in my mind. And if the big blow-off match can't compete with the previous matches in a serious, then what's the point?
Lansdell: This match was awesome if you take it as a story with a match attached. It took the I Quit match and amped it up a level, and did some things we've never seen before. Do you have any idea how hard it is to do that these days? A lot of people will point to the drop-off in the middle of the match, but those same people will gloss over the lousy start to HBK-Hart. Was this as good as that? Even though I think their match was overrated, I say no. But it was excellent. Not many people in WWE can go balls-to-the-wall for an hour, so the slowdowns are to be expected. Unlike with HBK-Hart, they had a built-in reason for it to happen here because of Orton's style. As always his facial expressions added a layer to the match, and Cena's comebacks were tempered by Orton's tactics. He had a game plan for the match and it would have worked too, if not for the meddling ex-Jamaican. The stalling, the running away...IT ALL MADE SENSE FOR THE CHARACTER. I was dreading this match, but instead it ends up being in my top 5 of the year. Near the top of it, in fact.
McNew: This match, much like the participants that were involved, is going to be very polarizing. I suspect most will either love it or hate it with little in between. I thought the match was absolutely brilliant, and about as well done as you could expect out of these two. When the match was announced I compared it to HHH vs. The Rock, and it reminded me a lot of that match in execution. They cut a frenetic pace in the first half hour which all sorts of crazy spots mixed in, and then the second half while slowed a bit was brilliant psychology. Cena's comeback came at the right time, and the finish was one of the most dramatic on the edge of my seat moments of the year. Second only to the near fall's at the end of Taker-HBK. For that I feel that this is right now the clear runner up to Taker-HBK in the match of the year voting.
Thomas: This wasn't a match, it was a Michael Bay film. Explosions, overblown story, hero coming back from the dead...but at least the dialogue was a bit better. Cena and Orton made the most out of this match and the story that was told was fantastic, although in this case it made the ring work suffer some. I felt that the "chase and run" portion of the match heavily killed the momentum and flow, and then Cena's sudden, Hogan-esque comeback got the crowd hot but hurt things for me. The finish was nicely done but there were too many problems in the middle for me to give it a truly great rating. Instead, it was just very good.
Small: While I was not expecting the world out of this match, I definitely was interested in how this match would turn out. The best case scenario would have been a remake of the Triple H/Rock classic which hid both man's lack of moveset with creative booking and a dramatic final ten minutes. The worst case scenario would have been a remake of Hart/HBK, a match that I still haven't made it all the way through due to a multitude of rest holds and backbreakers. In the end, we got a little taste of both matches. While there were plenty of highlights in the match (Orton's first RKO, the top rope FU, and some inspired brawling), my biggest fault with the match was that it peaked too early. After a campy Special FX period, the following twenty minutes grinded the match to a halt. I understand the storyline of Orton running from Cena; however, it happened TOO EARLY in the match. If Orton started running from Cena's comebacks with under ten minutes on the clock, it would have brought some much needed drama to the match. However, that never happened as Cena made his superhuman comeback with over ten minutes to go (and really he was never in a rush). While I liked the brutality of the FU through the announce table, it did not make up for the lack of urgency in the final five minutes. The final few minutes featured a predictable ref bump and one attempt at the STF. Why no counters or a rope break? For two guys known for hot finishes, I was really unsatisfied with how the match ended. A better finish with some better pacing could have really saved this match (and the show).
Match Rating:
Slimmer: ***
Lansdell: ****
McNew: ****¾
Thomas: ***¾
Small: ***
Average Match Rating: ***¾


Final Thoughts

Match of the Night:
Slimmer: None
Okay, maybe I'm cheating by not naming a match of the night, but there's just no way for me to differentiate between the matches. They were all fine. They were palatable. But there was nothing really important or exciting or memorable, aside from possibly that great Batista heel turn, which technically wasn't even part of a match. If these matches were breakfast cereals, they'd all be that high fiber stuff that helps you poop but tastes like cardboard. And when I pay forty bucks for a pay-per-view, I want some damn Fruity Pebbles, damn it!
Lansdell: Randy Orton vs. John Cena (****)
Are you kidding? There could be no other choice. These two killed themselves for our enjoyment, and sadly many people won't get what they did and will choose to blast it because nobody ended up with a face covered in blood or falling off the TitanTron or hitting some sick head bumps. Awesome story, awesome execution.
McNew: Randy Orton vs. John Cena (****¾)
Easy choice here. The rest of the card was just filler to get us to this main event, and the show was going to live or die with this one as any PPV with an iron man would. This match had to deliver, and deliver it did in a BIG way. Not much more you can say. Easily the best match they've had together, and arguably the best match either has had period.
Thomas: Randy Orton vs. John Cena (***¾)
The main event was the best match as it well should have been. Orton and Cena worked overtime to make this one work and I appreciated that, though I think their limitations weren't well-suited to an Iron Man Match. But they get points for trying.
Small: The Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk (***)
Yikes, I gave the majority of the matches the same rating. Hmm... let's give it to Batista for his quotable promo and his awesome beatdown of Rey Mysterio.

Trash of the Night:
Slimmer: None
Some of the match may have been a bit underwhelming (Miz / Morrison, Taker / Batista / Mysterio / Punk), but there was certainly nothing on this card that I would consider trash. And hey, much love to the Divas for giving me absolutely no reason to even consider giving them TotN honors.
Lansdell: Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown (**¾)
Not that it was bad, but nothing was worse or let me down more. They were on a hiding to nothing with the format, and it showed.
McNew: Team Raw Divas vs. Team Smackdown Divas(**¼)
Nothing really stood out as being terrible, so I will go with my default answer. The diva match. As always eliminate this from the card and you've got more time for the others.
Thomas: The Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk (**¾)
Nothing really earned a "trash" rating here and I hate to give it, but if I must I have to give it to the four-way match. It just lacked too much and I didn't like the finish, although Batista's turn was pretty great.
Small: Team Raw Divas vs. Team Smackdown Divas (**½)
I guess the Diva's match was the "worst" match of the show but even that wasn't bad.

Final Analysis:
Slimmer: The bottom line here is that this is one of those cards that you could very easily forget ever happened. The three Bragging Rights matches may have been fun, but ultimately they accomplished very little and will more than likely have virtually no impact on future booking directions. The World Heavyweight Championship Match was really just a way to build to the Batista heel turn, and honestly, the turn could have just as well taken place on Smackdown. And while this may have been the honest-to-goodness, cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die LAST (and we mean it this time) confrontation between John Cena and Randy Orton, at the end of the day it sort of just feels like just another time that they've traded the belt. And so in the end we've got a show full of middling matches, all of which I rated between **½ and ***¼. And that's not a good pay-per-view – hell, it's just a passable episode of Raw.
Lansdell: It's not really fair to call this PPV of the year based on the average rating, because of the low match count. I'm sitting here half an hour after the PPV and I don't have the feeling that I just watched an awesome PPV. It was good, certainly better than some of the crap we've been forced to endure, but not one of the best. That Iron Man will be heavily hyped on WWE TV for the next several weeks and by the time that's done, we'll remember it as the best ever. Well, many people will. Overall this show was better than I thought, but my expectations were low.
McNew: Basically a one match show with an hour and a half of filler. The filler wasn't bad at all, and the one match the show was built on delivered more than even the most optimistic WWE fan could ever hope for. The less than memorable undercard keeps this one from getting a perfect rating, but still one of the better PPV's of the year.
Thomas: As a whole, this Pay-Per-View didn't mean much. Nothing was atrocious or even that bad, but outside of the main event nothing was that memorable either. It was all middle-of-the-road and was just a way to bide time until Survivor Series. We had some good turns and that helped things a bit, and I did enjoy Cena/Orton despite its flaws. In the end, I think this is a show that's lost in the shuffle and will not be well-remembered by the end of the year.
Small: With a fun, yet unspectacular, undercard, it was up to the main event to determine how the show would be viewed. While the Iron Man Match was by no means a disaster, I don't see much replay in the match. If you want to see a long John Cena match, I suggest you dig up his match with Shawn Michaels from Raw a few years back. If you want to watch a PPV with a bunch of three star matches that will mean nothing in the long run, then this is your show.

Verdict:
Slimmer: **
Lansdell: ***¼
McNew: ****
Thomas: ***
Small: ***
Average Verdict: ***


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Comments (36)

 
How can you even call Cena/Orton a wrestling match? Cena literally performed a total of FIVE different wrestling moves (each F-U a fireman's carry) and still comes out with the title. Vince hasn't re-invented the Hulkster, he's merely done what Tim Burton did to Planet of the Apes, with a much less talented orangutan.

Posted By: Guest#7674 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 02:02 AM

 
 
This PPV sucked. Period. No amount of mediocre, throwaway matches can tell me otherwise.

Miz/Morrison was pretty decent, but nothing compared to each guy's separate work on their own brand. ***

The divas match was friggin' great, and an extra few minutes with Gail and Natty would have been much appreciated...also ***

The World Heavyweight Title must leave the hands of the Undertaker. Period. Watching Taker work tonight was painful...he punches looked weak as fuck all night and each chokeslam looked more tired than the last. The longer they have Taker stinking up the place in 10 minute TITLE MATCHES, the more devalued the title will become. I'm only giving extra credit for how coy Batista was right before choking a bitch dead. **3/4, mostly for the Punk/Rey portions (as brief as they were)

Saw the Team RAW vs. Team Smackdown! ending coming from a mile away, and if no one else did...just fucking kill yourself. And 15 minutes? Really? You've got 14 guys out there...and NO finisher buffet? I did mark like a 6-year old when the HART DYNASTY got to do the HART ATTACK on HBK...was kinda hoping they'd go all uber-heel and take after Bret...and destroy the trophy. But, outside of Jericho and HBK's work, everyone seemed to just be out there to collect a check. **3/4

I hope to God this is the last Cena/Orton match. For starters, they have Orton bitch tap before the STFU was even fully applied...he actually could have rolled and been out, but tapped. And this is...4 MINUTES IN?! Then they go all Tom and Jerry, complete with Wile E. Coyote plunger mishap (although I was fully picturing Marvin the Martian saying "where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"). The pacing was awful, especially when Orton does his "stalking" offense a.k.a. I'm gonna take 15 seconds in between punches so I can stare. I don't know why everyone gushes about their matches...this was no only predictable, in outcome and moveset, but they never keep your attention. An hour was PAINFUL to sit through, and hopefully we won't have to...for at least six months. At this point, RAW's uppercard is in the shits, and Cena has no credible threats to the title...and people wonder why RAW's booking squad always gets shit on. ***, but only out of respect that they did go an hour and a few spots were good (the RKO counter out of the FU was gorgeous)

Overall...everyone will forget this tomorrow night when they start pushing for Survivor Series. Seriously, it was that forgettable.


Posted By: Ramsey (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 03:55 AM

 
 
"the finish was one of the most dramatic on the edge of my seat moments of the year. Second only to the near fall's at the end of Taker-HBK."

Wow, your WWE fanboyism truly knows no bounds McNew.

The finish was awful and made Orton look like a fucking moron. He was able to resist tapping for almost the entire minute yet couldn't last the final 4 seconds? If they wanted to go with Orton tapping right in the final seconds of the match then Cena should have locked on the STF with 10 seconds to go, not a full minute.


Posted By: Guest#7630 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 04:37 AM

 
 
McNew gave the Orton/Cena Iron Man Match one quarter of a star shy of a five star match when only one other person thought was even worthy of being a four star match. LOL!

Posted By: McKnowNothing (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 04:46 AM

 
 
Miz/Morrison ***
Diva Tag **1/2
Taker/Punk/Batista/Rey **3/4
Team RAW vs Team Smackdown **2/3
Orton/Cena ***1/2


Posted By: Kev (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 04:56 AM

 
 
Weird.

How come you can't see this on the main page? Been eight hours since the show ended.

I had to get in through google.


Posted By: Guest#3689 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 06:59 AM

 
 
Slimmer and Small: You guys are nuts; I'm not a fan of either Cena OR Orton, but I *loved* that Iron Man match. And Slimmer, the middle segment with the pyro was surprisingly well-done in context. I can't believe you guys only gave this three stars.

Posted By: J-Stack (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 07:41 AM

 
 
So Slimmer bases his match reviews not on quality, but on the potential future booking aspects that he knows nothing about?

I see...


Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 08:01 AM

 
 
Verdict:
Slimmer: **

LOL


Posted By: Guest#0672 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 08:44 AM

 
 
Cena/Orton feud has great storytelling but for some reason I just don't love their matches. The ironman was good but not anything over 4 stars. I may critcize both men but they keep the crwd interested. Overall it was a good show. I feel the 4-way was fun but could have used a good 15 minutes.

Posted By: Guest#1417 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 09:32 AM

 
 
Did CM Punk shout "It's clobberin' time" as he made his entrance, or am I still high?

Posted By: Chungles (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 09:58 AM

 
 
Fun show - you lot need to change your tampons

Posted By: Guest#4733 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 09:59 AM

 
 
Orton/Cena = snooze fest

Posted By: ZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZzzzzz......... (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 10:28 AM

 
 
That Cena/Orton match is the most divisive match to come along in some time. I've seen some people call it the match of the year while others have called it the WORST match of the year! It's been a long time since I've seen such division about a particular match.

Personally, I think it was a great match. Not a MOTY, but easily 4 stars in my view. If it wasn't for the slow pace at times, this could have certainly been in 5-star conversation.

It truly did have an epic feel, like this was actually the final battle between two longtime rivals. Now hopefully the WWE remembers that stipulation and doesn't have the two of them back in the ring together before the end of the year otherwise it will take away from the specialness of this match.


Posted By: Monty (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 10:53 AM

 
 
Ramsey go get a blog or something, it's just wrestling, don't cry.

Posted By: Wow (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 11:19 AM

 
 
Come on, there were SO many ways in which they could have turned Batista, and they ran with the most obvious, telegraphed, belabored way possible... I mean, it's fine and all, but God DAMN did they spell that one out...

Also, I was there live and after the hysteria of the Iron Man match's ending died down, I thought a lot about the rationale behind Orton tapping, and here's what I came up with...

1) There may not be any "rationale"; the guy was in agonizing pain, to the point that he couldn't form coherent thoughts. He wanted the pain to end, so he tapped. Hell, maybe he was beyond the point where he could even HEAR the crowd counting down...
2) It was tied, so if he hadn't tapped they would have gone into OT. He didn't want to get his ass kicked EVEN MORE after that, so he gave it up, the chickenshit...

Just, seriously folks, they fought each other for ONE HOUR. You've got to bend some of your bullshit IWC "booking logic" and think of it as a FIGHT (suspension of disbelief, people) and not a lead-in to Survivor Series or whatever.


Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered)  on October 26, 2009 at 11:20 AM

 
 
Epic flop.

Posted By: Guest#1200 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 11:27 AM

 
 
"I hope to God this is the last Cena/Orton match. For starters, they have Orton bitch tap before the STFU was even fully applied...he actually could have rolled and been out, but tapped. And this is...4 MINUTES IN?!"

Posted By: Ramsey (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 03:55 AM

You must have never watched an Ironman match. Quick submissions early on are strategy - as noted by the commentators. You got 60 minutes...why put your body at risk in the first 10?


Posted By: Guest#8746 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 12:10 PM

 
 
Slimmer and Small need to go away. Thy obviously know nothing about wrestling.

Posted By: Peep (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 12:19 PM

 
 
"The finish was awful and made Orton look like a fucking moron. He was able to resist tapping for almost the entire minute yet couldn't last the final 4 seconds? If they wanted to go with Orton tapping right in the final seconds of the match then Cena should have locked on the STF with 10 seconds to go, not a full minute."

Orton was facing away from the clock...

He knew the match was almost over; he held on for as long as he could before tapping, but he didn't know how much time was left.

I thought both segments with the STF were handled perfectly, with Orton tapping immediately at the start of the match to ensure he wouldn't take too much damage, to the aforementioned final segment.

I definitely enjoyed the match a lot, leaning more towards McNew's rating than Small and Slimmer, but I'm an old school guy who likes Orton's slow pace.

Finally, did anyone else notice that Lawler took on more of a scientific role in this match? Todd kept asking him how moves would affect the wrestlers, and how he would approach situations, and King was actually bringing a lot of psychology to the match. It was his best work in a long time, however it will probably be overlooked by everyone...


Posted By: Homie (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 12:54 PM

 
 
OK.

First off, did anyone listen to the commentating team when Orton tapped out the first time? Orton was smart in the kayfabe point of view because the STF is a painful submission hold (at least, when Cena puts pressure on it, which is never) and Orton needed to conserve his energy for the next 55 minutes.

The ending of the match. Now, I can see where people are coming from, but Cena and Orton had already been fighting for 60 minutes before that. If I was in a fight with anyone of you for 60 minutes, and then I put an STF on you, that you tried to stay put for a minute but eventually tapped out, is that not realistic? If the match had been going for 15 minutes, then yes, Orton could probably last more than a minute in the hold, but 60 minutes is longer than 15 minutes, and I laugh at the people who say "ZOMG! Orton couldn't last another few seconds lol?!?" just because Cena won. Could Orton have lasted a few more seconds, yes, in fact I was praying that he held on so they could go into overtime, but Orton was exhausted and gave up. It's not that hard to understand.


Posted By: Kieran (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 12:55 PM

 
 
Vince hasn't re-invented the Hulkster, he's merely done what Tim Burton did to Planet of the Apes, with a much less talented orangutan.
Posted By: Guest#7674 (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 02:02 AM

Get with the times, child. It's not cool to hate Cena anymore.


Posted By: Bimmy (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 01:09 PM

 
 
I think Ramsey needs a chill pill

Posted By: Bill (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 01:23 PM

 
 
Look, I don't have a problem with Orton tapping early on.....What I do have a problem with is ELEVEN Falls during the match. That is Ridiculous....Plus, I too hated the ending. Yes, I know he couldn't see the clock, but he knew it was under a minute when the move was put on and should have been able to hold out. One more thing, if he taps out with 4 seconds to go, shouldn't there be a 30 second rest-period and then the next 4 seconds? I know its trivial, but aren't they suppose to act like this a authentic athletic competition?

Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 02:06 PM

 
 
If ti werent for Taker/HBK

The Iron Man Match would be match of the year


Posted By: hound89 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 02:15 PM

 
 
I kind of agree with Slimmer's overall ranking of ** despite all of the matches being in excess of **.

Think if this way.

You go through life and you sleep with 20 women. The best looking one was 6, while the worst looking one was a 4. Not really exciting, and looking back - you really can't be proud of those exploits.

Now - you go through life again and sleep with 20 women. You nail a couple of 9's and 10's, but you also do the dirty with a couple of 2's. At the end of it all - you just block out those 2's and remember the 9's and 10's and think - damn, that was a good ride.

Bragging rights was like banging a bunch of average looking chicks - you got laid, but so what - it's not something that you'll remember or care brag about later on.


Posted By: BobbyC (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 03:32 PM

 
 
"Look, I don't have a problem with Orton tapping early on.....What I do have a problem with is ELEVEN Falls during the match. That is Ridiculous....Plus, I too hated the ending. Yes, I know he couldn't see the clock, but he knew it was under a minute when the move was put on and should have been able to hold out. One more thing, if he taps out with 4 seconds to go, shouldn't there be a 30 second rest-period and then the next 4 seconds? I know its trivial, but aren't they suppose to act like this a authentic athletic competition?

Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 02:06 PM"

The 30-second rest period doesn't stop the clock.


Posted By: His Bubbliness (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 04:28 PM

 
 
I hope to God this is the last Cena/Orton match. For starters, they have Orton bitch tap before the STFU was even fully applied...he actually could have rolled and been out, but tapped. And this is...4 MINUTES IN?!

the whole point of orton tapping early was so that he wasnt hurt too badly hurt after only a few minutes in


Posted By: guest 69 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 04:38 PM

 
 
"Ramsey go get a blog or something, it's just wrestling, don't cry.

Posted By: Wow (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 11:19 AM

I think Ramsey needs a chill pill

Posted By: Bill (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 01:23 PM"

Peh...I guess logic from a worker's standpoint makes a guy "crazy" and need to "chill out"...you people are all marks...and for me, it's not "just wrestling," its my part-time profession, so, ya know, I kinda have an investment in it. Putz.

Plus, isn't the point of a comments section to, ya know...COMMENT?

Oh...and BTW...

"You must have never watched an Ironman match. Quick submissions early on are strategy - as noted by the commentators. You got 60 minutes...why put your body at risk in the first 10?

Posted By: Guest#8746 (Guest) on October 26, 2009 at 12:10 PM"

It's not the fact that Orton tapped 4 minutes in...I get it, damage control, I've done 30-minute matches where we did the same...it's the fact that Cena didn't even have the move on yet and he taps like a bitch...a quick shuffle to the rope a foot in front of him would have saved a fall, he could have rolled outside, did more chickenshit heel stuff, etc...but he didn't, and looked like a bitch. It set the tone for the entire match, which was "Super Cena ALWAYS gets the best of Bitch Orton".

I stand by my opinion...now, if they would have crammed most of this into 25 minutes and not have been an Iron Man, it would have possibly been better...but I doubt it.

Where's the kaboom?


Posted By: Ramsey (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 05:11 PM

 
 
"For starters, they have Orton bitch tap before the STFU was even fully applied...he actually could have rolled and been out, but tapped. And this is...4 MINUTES IN?! "

It's called strategy, dipshit. Sure, he takes a fall, but he hasn't been put through the hell that the STF inflicts. So he's down one, but he's not so hurt that it'll still affect him later in the match. Fuckin whiner. It really hurts sometimes to be a wrestling fan on the internet.


Posted By: All-Around Wrestling Fan (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 05:41 PM

 
 
Slimmer, if you really can't tell whether the Iron Man or Women's match was better, then you really shoulden't be writing on a wrestling site.

Posted By: Guessing (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 06:25 PM

 
 
The cena/orton match was very good. It had a tremendous stoy and I thought the pacing really fit orton's character. Sure the end was a little stupid with orton tapping with 4 secondes left, but it was also a little surprising. I mean ideally they could have had Orton pass out, which would have made more sense, but that may have put Orton over as the type to not give up. So they had hime tap. I for one liked it because it surprised me a bit and was fully in Orton's character to give up in a tough situation.

Posted By: faceheel (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 06:53 PM

 
 
When even the Divas match is decent, you know this is a strong PPV overall. Fine show really. Nothing mind blowing but solid.

"Hopefully we also don't see Michelle McStyles again."

Are you referring to what she was wearing to the ring??!! Please, even if she so-called 'copies' him, more people recognise Michelle McCool than that overrated spot machine AJ Styles.


Posted By: Guest#8588 (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 07:17 PM

 
 
"Look, I don't have a problem with Orton tapping early on.....What I do have a problem with is ELEVEN Falls during the match. That is Ridiculous...."

The Rock vs Triple H at Judgement Day 2000 ended 6-5 while Steamboat and Rick Rude went to 4-3 at Beach Blast '92, and that one was only half an hour long. This isn't the first time there's been a lot of falls in an Iron Man match.

Hell, AJ Styles and Jerry Lynn had a ten minute Iron Man match during the old TNA on PPV days that went to a 3-3 draw. That's like if Cena/Orton went to 18-18.


Posted By: Homie (Guest)  on October 26, 2009 at 07:28 PM

 
 
The Iron man was good but still not in my top 5 of the year.

Also i was very disapointed with the big tag match, just didnt have enough to it, glad smackdown won tho.

Overall the ppv was decent but not really anything i would rush to see again.


Posted By: jbardo (Guest)  on October 27, 2009 at 08:51 AM

 
 
Orton tapping the first time makes complete sense, and makes him look smart rather than like a bitch. Do you lose one fall quickly (knowing you can make it up via dirty tactics later), or do you take the risk of blowing all your energy on attempts to get out, leaving you vulnerable to pinfall after pinfall later in the match? Did you guys call Brock an idiot because he DQ'ed himself during his Iron Man match with Angle? These matches are games, and it's great to see the strategy involved on both wrestlers' parts.

Second, tapping with 5 seconds left does not make him look like a bitch, or an idiot, or whatnot. I'm reminded of Silva vs. Hendo, a fight between 2 of MMA's best. Hendo tapped with less than 10 seconds left in a round, after trying to escape a rear naked choke for a good while. This is just how pain works! Sometimes 5 more seconds just feels like you'll DIE. Especially if you've been in a [according to kayfabe] devastating hold for almost a minute. Orton lasted longer than most do before tapping, and in the end it made him look like a cunning, powerful opponent who simply got beaten in a narrow, hard-fought match.

You guys will bitch about anything.


Posted By: Ange (Guest)  on October 27, 2009 at 12:33 PM

 


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