That Was Then, Is This Too? 11.03.09: SmackDown vs. Raw vs. Day of Reckoning
Posted by Jasper Gerretsen on 11.03.2009
With Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 fresh on the shelf, I take a look back at a five year old wrestling game that I still play to this day.
Welcome to yet another installment of That Was Then, Is This Too?, the column that looks for parallel lines in all the right places. As usual, we have comments:
Jericho has seemingly always been an excellent technical wrestler, while Kenny is not in the same class at the similar point in time. Also, Chris appears to be an excellent booker, as shown by the feuds he has been allowed a hand in booking. Those booking smarts may be what allows Chris to take to each new character and adapt.
It will be interesting to see, in any case.
Posted By: Guest#0744 (Guest) on October 27, 2009 at 01:38 AM
Jericho's technical ability mostly comes from the fact that he trained with the Harts, and their school has always put emphasis on technical wrestling. As for Jericho's skills as a booker, I think it would be hasty to declare him a great booker based purely on the storylines he's been involved with.
GREAT column. I almost wish it was just about Omega, since the Jericho stuff is well-covered ground. But that would ruin the whole premise of the column.
Anyway, my favorite Omega moment was (I think) against Danielson at PWG 100 when he screamed "YOOOOU SON OF A B!" before connecting with a DEVASTATING HEART PUNCH. I totally lost my shit. That whole match is hysterical.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Guest) on October 27, 2009 at 10:47 AM
The fact that Jericho is covered ground is the main reason I kept his section rather short. As for the Omega/Danielson match, I've seen it and it is some great comedy wrestling indeed, something that Omega is very good at.
That leads us to banner! 2.0!
As with North American professional wrestling in general, WWE games have dominated the wrestling video game market since the demise of WCW. Although TNA has tried with their Impact game, critical and popular reception have been relatively poor. The Fire Pro series is popular among hardcore fans, but mostly in Japan. WWE video games, and specifically the SmackDown series, which has been around for over nine years now, is the only
Since 2000, pretty much all WWE video games for home consoles have been produced by the Japanese company Yuke's and published by THQ. While they were initially exclusive to the Playstation 1 and 2, they have been appearing on the Xbox 360 since SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 and the Wii since SvR 2008. The franchise has been using the same engine since SvR 2006.
The game's most recent iteration has hit the shelves a little over a week ago, and while I haven't bought it yet I have been able to play around with it quite a bit over the weekend. The game's main improvement over last year's edition is the expanded creation modes. Besides the usual create-a-wrestler mode, which has also received a major overhaul, and the create-a-finisher mode that has been introduced in last year's edition, there is a whole new creation mode based around booking storylines and shows. The Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 versions of SvR 2010 also take full advantage of the console's networks, allowing players to share their wrestlers and storylines. This is a huge improvement to the game's replay value.
The gameplay has seen slight improvements, such as new grapple positions and the kickout mechanism from the Legends of Wrestlemania game. There is also a new elimination system for the Royal Rumble match and several new areas for backstage brawls, complete with the usual interactive grapples on various parts of the environment. The championship scramble match, which made its first appearance at the 2008 Unforgiven PPV, has also been added to the game.
I've been playing wrestling games since the Wrestlemania arcade game was released for DOS, and played most games released for the Playstation 2 or Gamecube. I haven't played the WWF No Mercy game that's generally considered to be the best WWE-based wrestling game ever published, so keep that in mind when I say that the WWE Day of Reckoning games are the best wrestling games I've ever played.
That Was Then...
The WWE Day of Reckoning games appeared on the Gamecube in 2004 and 2005, following a handful of mediocre Wrestlemania-based games. Like the Smackdown series of games, they were produced by Yuke's and published by THQ. While using a different engine, it plays very similar to most wrestling games, with all the usual match types and factors like momentum, stamina and limb damage determining the flow of the match.
The game also features an extensive create-a-wrestler mode with hundreds of options for attire, full facial sculpting and an easy to use paint tool to create custom tattoos and clothing decorations. The games were also the first games to feature extensive customization of wrestling masks, which is especially nice for fans of independent or Mexican wrestling.
But creating a wrestler is only one half of the equation. Creating an exact duplicate of Jun Akiyama is nice, but pretty much pointless without being able to have him throw around people in wrist-clutch exploders and blue thunder drivers. The Day of Reckoning games feature literally hundreds of moves, including dozens of Japanese moves that you'd never see in a WWE ring, and before the Day of Reckoning games have never been seen in a WWE video game. Everything from the Delfin special to the space flying tiger drop to the jig'n'tonic is available, making it possible to create wrestlers that not only look like all your favourite Japanese or independent wrestlers, but also move like them.
A very important detail of the movesets is the ability to decide your wrestler's counter style. For example, a cruiserweight countering a vertical suplex would land on his feet behind his opponent, while a technical wrestler would turn it into a small package, a submission wrestler would turn it into an armbar and a brawler would simply punch his opponent's ribs until he let go. This might seem like a minor detail, but it does improve on the realism of your created wrestlers.
Another very nice touch of realism which was added in the second game is that in addition to regular statistics like strength and charisma, there are also statistics for five different move types (striking, grappling, mat technique, aerial attacks and dirty). Each move is assigned to one of these types, and assigned one of five levels, which determines how many points a created wrestler needs in that attack type to be able to perform that move. For example, any wrestler can hit a top rope leg drop or elbow drop, but only the best high flyers will have access to the shooting star press or 450 splash.
The game's story mode, which can only be played with a created wrestler, takes you from an unnamed developmental territory, which basically acts like the game's tutorial mode, all the way to either the WWE or world heavyweight championship within the course of the way. Along the way, depending on which brand you picked, you'll either be recruited into Evolution or Undertaker's New Ministry, which consists of Undertaker, Charlie Haas, Booker T and Big Show. As the year goes along your created wrestler will capture the brand's tag team titles and secondary title before eventually being kicked out of the stable because the group's leader feels threatened. The player will eventually win the Royal Rumble and defeat their former mentor in a fifteen minute iron man match at Wrestlemania XX.
The story mode of the second game follows the first one as if the player has picked the RAW brand (the game unfortunately doens't allow you to import your created wrestlers from the previous game) and basically revolves around the world heavyweight title, which was declared vacant after a double finish to a match between Triple H and Chris Jericho, being stolen on the night of Wrestlemania. Eventually the player gets framed for the theft and kicked off RAW, where, after a brief run in the tag division with RVD, the player eventually captures the WWE championship at No Way Out. The storyline eventually culminates in the player getting revenge on the wrestlers that framed him (Edge and Randy Orton) before competing in a last man standing match at Wrestlemania against Triple H.
Overall I probably spent more time playing the Day of Reckoning games than I did all other wrestling games combined. The game is the sole reason I am now on my third Gamecube (which fortunately are cheap to get these days). As you might have guessed already, the game's appeal to me lies mainly in the fact that I can create incredibly accurate digital versions of all my favourite wrestlers (for example, my Delirious CAW only has shorter tassels on his mask). I even have a small notebook with formulas because of the limited amount of slots available for created wrestlers. So, will Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 be the game that finally retires my Gamecube?
...Is This Too?
As I wrote above, the main improvements of SvR 2010 over the 2009 edition are the improved create-a-wrestler mode, the extended create-a-finisher mode and the new WWE Story Designer mode. The basic controls are pretty much unchanged from the older SvR games, and are similar to the Day of Reckoning games. I don't really care much for graphics, and both games have fairly similar gameplay mechanics and controls. That means that it's down to the various create modes to win me over.
One of the biggest changes to the create-a-wrestler mode is the fact that, for the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 editions of the game, the wrestlers' attire is now rendered in full 3D in stead of simply replacing the wrestlers' various skin polygons. This means that the attire not only looks more realistic, but moves more realistically too.
The create-a-finisher mode has been improved too, with more animations for front grapple finishers and the ability to create aerial finishers. Unfortunately the create-a-finisher moves suffers from the fact that the animations more often than not end up looking incredibly weird. The aerial finisher mode looks nicer, but from what I've seen it mostly seems to be useful for creating impossible stuff like a double shooting star press. In that aspect, I definitely prefer Day of Reckoning's policy of simply throwing in hundreds of moves, animating each of them individually.
The WWE Story Designer mode looks much more promising. User generated content has been a proven method of keeping a video game alive for years, and both the Xbox Live and Playstation Network provide an excellent platform for people to share both their created storylines and their created wrestlers (although the fact that you can't edit downloaded wrestlers does hurt a little).
I'll probably pick up Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 once the price goes down, and by that time there should be years worth of created content out there for me to play with. Of course the main problem with user created content is that it's exactly that: user created content. There are hundreds of mods and user designed levels available for pretty much any shooter out there, no more than a handful are actually worth the effort of downloading them.
In the end, the amount of play time I'll be putting into this game will boil down entirely to the quality of the game's various creation modes, and that's exactly what Yuke's has been looking to improve in Smackdown vs. Raw 2010. Unfortunately the weekend I've had to play the game didn't really give me enough time to truly explore these new creation modes, but it all definitely looks very promising.
I just bought SvR 2010 for my Wii System last Tuesday night. It rocks! I also have the 2008 & 2009 versions of SvR. While those 2 games are okay, 2010 is a lot easier to play & control the characters. Heh, I'm already the US & World Heavyweight Champion with my character that I created! There are a couple of areas I have yet to explore but I highly recommend 2010 anyway!
Posted By: theoncomingstorm (Guest) on November 02, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Sorry dude, hate to be harsh, but if you've never played WWF No Mercy on the N64 then any opinions you have on wrestling games are worthless. Trust me, all those who played it will understand - it really was that good! Nothing compares to that game, especially not the lacklustre, same-old-shit-every-year lamefest that is the Smackdown vs Raw "franchise". Day of Reckoning blew massive donkey too btw.
Posted By: Droz's broken neck (Guest) on November 02, 2009 at 10:25 PM
Good article.
The biggest feature of DOR I miss the most is the ability to interrupt maneuvers, and to also use them to hit your opponents. it added for a new layer of hilarity and also strategy.
Posted By: Travis (Guest) on November 02, 2009 at 10:25 PM
Droz is right. no mercy is better than any wrestling game out there, to the point where i won't even bother with another wrestling game. my friends and i still play it just about every time we hang out. best gameplay control.
if you've never played it you should just benoit yourself....
Posted By: D-Lo feels bad about the neck (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 03:47 PM
DOR's create-a-wrestler would have been fine and dandy if not for the 10-15 second loading times after every single minor edit.
Posted By: Owain J. Brimfield (Registered) on November 03, 2009 at 03:49 PM
Can you believe I still play Day of Reckoning 1 & 2? I just find the gameplay way more exciting then the Smackdown series for some reason. Plus there are times Expert mode is easy as hell and other times its hard and I'm having a 20 minutes match with the CPU. I can't say the same for SmackDown series. Even though its all flash I haven't enjoyed that game since maybe SDvR2006?
I kind of agree with Droz. But I comepltely disagree that DoR sucked balls. No Mercy will always be top dog but that doesn't mean other wrestling games aren't fun as hell
Posted By: Guest#2858 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 03:53 PM
Best pro wrestling game is No Mercy. The most recent game that comes to mind is Smackdown Here Comes The Pain but thats it.
Posted By: Ja (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 03:59 PM
No Mercy on N64: overrated. The wrestlers moved like they were underwater, it was soooooo sloooooow
Posted By: skinner (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 04:08 PM
No Mercy rules the world...
SmackDown! got shit after Know Your Role.
Posted By: Guest#3169 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 04:11 PM
Day of Reckoning's create modes were fabulous, but the GamePlay was extremely frustrating. I do not want to do a half-hour "must win" career mode match because my CPU partner can't stop the opponent from breaking up the pinfall.
You are incorrect.
Posted By: R-Truth (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 04:35 PM
What I don't get is how TNA, ROH or some independant body doesn't realize that No Mercy has such a ravenous fan base to this date and a beloved video game is one of the best ways to build a brand. If one of these parties simply recreated that engine or went through a developer / publisher that ownes it (I believe EA was the last to use it with their Def Jam series and I don't think Aki even produces American games anymore), many wrestling fans that are only fans of the WWE would buy it and be constantly exposed to an alternative wreslting brand. I could litteraly talk about ideas for a new game based on No Mercy's legacy for days...
Posted By: Darkdan (Registered) on November 03, 2009 at 05:02 PM
"making it possible to create wrestlers that not only move like all your favourite Japanese or independent wrestlers, but also move like them."
This has been brought to you by our Department of redundancy Department.
Posted By: Ben S (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 05:32 PM
No Mercy ruled (and still does), but I'm gonna have to say Smackdown! Here Comes the Pain was the best wrestling game. I can't really say anything about any SD vs Raw games after 2006 cause that's the last time I bought it
Posted By: SS87 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 05:57 PM
If you've never played Fire Pro D your opinion is fully invalid about anything ever.
Posted By: Dreamcaster (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 06:02 PM
While I agree that no mercy was ahead of its time, I strongly disagree that no other games compare to it. Shut your mouth, here comes the pain, and 2006 were all exceptional titles. though the most recent svr games have left a lot to be desired, to say that no other game has come close is, quite frankly, absurd
Posted By: biggD (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 06:19 PM
Smackdown 2006 was the last one that felt like a real upgrade. 2007 was the last one with a good roster. Here Comes the Pain has the endless season mode, which I think is why it lives on as the best of the series.
All the N64 wrestling games were pretty awesome, but No Mercy was the best by far. The Day of Reckoning games have better gameplay than all the recent Smackdown games.
I rented 2010 and the one thing I can really recommend is the customization, especially if you own a PS3 or 360. The gameplay isn't much diffrent, and the story mode might be the worst I ever played, but this is the first WWE game that actually lets you tinker with the real wrestlers. And if you like making wrestlers, this is the best system to date for that. I say it's worth getting, but not right now. Wait till the next one is annoucned, and the price should drop dramatically. Once you can get it for under $30, I'd say go for it.
Posted By: Guest#7996 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 07:47 PM
I've been waiting for someone to do a column on this. First, let me say that I did NOT play Day of Reckoning because I never had a Gamecube, as Nintendo products past the early 90's do not appeal to me.
However, I did own WCW Revenge, Wrestlemania 2000, and No Mercy for N64. All of those games were awesome and built on the same game engine from WCW/nWo World Tour. I also had WCW vs. The World for PS1 which was pretty cool.
And although most people salivate over No Mercy, I honestly had more fun playing WM 2000, but they were both great games.
Another great one that was mentioned was Smackdown: Here comes the Pain for PS2, which was the last wrestling game I bought besides Fire Pro wrestling. HCTP had probably the best roster that I can think of in any wrestling game before or since. After that, they changed the gameplay and although the newer versions look better, I don't have nearly as much fun playing them. I have a friend who buys SMD vs Raw every single year and he loves them.
My main gripe is the lack of movesets. Sure, some ppl may not care, but I do. It seems like in the new version that everyone has the same limited number of moves. Whether or not that reflects today's WWE product, I don't like it. Part of the fun for me back in the day was creating my own guy and giving him different outfits, as well as a massive moveset. I find it oddly funny that the newest SMD vs Raw advertises the create-a-wrestler (or "superstar") mode, as if it's never been done before. I understand that maybe some kids are new to the product and may not know, but if that's the best attribute they have to offer, I'll pass on buying these games, as I've done for the last 5 years.
Finally, I purchased Fire Pro Wrestling for PS2 about 2 years ago, and although I really do appreciate the roster, moveset, and gameplay engine; I just cannot get over the 2D graphics. I know that comes from being spoiled by playing games like Halo, Call of Duty, and even sports games in the last 10 years. Had I played something like Fire Pro 10 years ago, it'd probably be my favorite of all time.
Anyway, WWE, THQ, and even some of you ppl may not care, but that's just my take on the topic. I'm not saying the new SvR games aren't fun for a short period of time, it's just that I know they can do WAY better and until that happens, they won't be getting my money.
Posted By: amusing comments (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 08:54 PM
Folks, we are all arguing about the stuff between No Mercy and SDvsRAW, but the thing is, they don't hold a candle to Fire Pro. Since the days on SNES, the game has been more in depth than any wrestling game out on the market today. And Fire Pro Wrestling Returns tops it all. I am still gonna get SDvsRAW 10, but I will always keep my PS2 just for FPR.
Posted By: KaosKarma (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 09:15 PM
Yeah.. No Mercy's still the best game out there for pro wrestling fans.. but Fire Pro Returns and Fire Pro D aren't too far behind.
That said.. SD vs. Raw 2010 is actually a REALLY good game, and may be the best Smackdown game since HCTP. The updates are small, but they make all the difference in the overall feel of the game.
Posted By: Blackbird 13 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 09:30 PM
I have played No Mercy, and I am almost willing to buy a Wii JUST for that if they put it out. With that said, No Mercy (as well as the Fire Pro series) has the advantage of being a fond memory. The basic question is this: If that EXACT SAME GAME came out today, would you pay $50 for it? As much as we like to discount graphics, I think the answer is "no". We've already seen what happens when this occurs: There are approximately eight other people in America that bought Fire Pro Returns when it was released. I have no reason to believe that something similar would not occur if they did the same for No Mercy.
NO WRESTLING GAME tops the Story Designer in SvR 2010. This is the ultimate in what every wrestling fan wants: The ability to create your own show. There are some extreme limits and restrictions, but there is also extreme potential.
I will take this moment to plug my own re-drafted ECW Story online: JTJ's WWE:ECW01-01 and JTJ's WWE: ECW01-02. Gamertag - JAM Renaissance,search tags ECW, Redraft, and JAM, I believe.
It is what every fan would want to do - I redrafted the WWE with two friends, and am trying to rebuild the brand around my top picks Shawn Michaels, Edge, CM Punk, and Jeff Hardy.
I loved No Mercy and Fire Pro in my time... but nothing beats being able to formally put myself in Vince's shoes.
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 09:44 PM
I bought both DOR games. I believe it is way better than SVR. DOR did have its problems, but the gameplay was way better from the SVR. It was faster paced.
Posted By: 2 frsh 37 (Guest) on November 03, 2009 at 09:57 PM
Fire Pro Returns >>>> Any other wrestling game.
Posted By: Keith (Guest) on November 04, 2009 at 07:34 AM
"
I will take this moment to plug my own re-drafted ECW Story online: JTJ's WWE:ECW01-01 and JTJ's WWE: ECW01-02. Gamertag - JAM Renaissance,search tags ECW, Redraft, and JAM, I believe."
How dare you sully this article with a plug for your created content?
After all you don't hear me extolling the virtues of my "AJ Styles Tron" - an entrance video for AJ Styles, the only one on XBOX live to utilise multiple attires, proper screen effects like split screen and a custom made Spiral Tap - because I have more class than that.
Posted By: Del Trotter (Guest) on November 04, 2009 at 08:05 AM
I've played No Mercy plenty of times with my old roomie and I wasn't really that impressed. Maybe it's because I suck balls at it since I never owned an N64, but still...not a huge fan.
I really dont' see myself buying another game after this unless WWE/THQ/YUKES throws something absolutely unbelievable into SvR2011, because really...why do I need to? There rosters pretty much stay the same, and if anything the only people they lack are the shitty wrestlers. Plus with the whole create-a-story mode...I can play new content forever!
Posted By: Mideon (Guest) on November 04, 2009 at 08:45 AM
Ive played nearly every wrestling game, and by far, besides FPW, Day of Reckoning 2 was one of the best games out there. Though over looked one of the simplest touches known as the momentum shift during a match, no only eliminated digital squash matches, but made matches just that much more interesting.
Posted By: Affliction (Guest) on November 04, 2009 at 09:43 AM
A lot of your talk about moves that were never available before DoR? Yeah, they were in No Mercy, or unlockable in various SD/SVR games.
Really, man, get yourself an N64 and grab a copy of No Mercy. This isn't even a "you should" deal, it's a "you need to" one.
And for the record? Def Jam: Fight For New York > SVR '07, '08, '09, and '10.
Yeah, I dig the idea of "create your own storylines." That's why I've e-fedded, and that's free to do.
Posted By: AndrewCrow (Guest) on November 04, 2009 at 11:19 AM
I strongly urge anyone that fancies themself a "fantasy booker" or someone that thinks the create-a-story mode in SVR10 to look into EWR for the PC. Its free, adictive and has such a loyal fan base that constantly update it.
Fire Pro move depth + EWR industry depth + No Mercy Game Engine + SVR Graphics = world's greatest wrestling game
Posted By: Darkdan (Registered) on November 05, 2009 at 01:17 PM