Ask 411 Wrestling 11.11.09: NWA Invading, Heel V Heel, & Worst. Annoucer. EVER.

Posted by Mathew Sforcina on 11.11.2009

Who were the Machines? How much does Pyro cost? Was Rude set for the big time? Did Funk dream of running over Flair? Why isn't Burchill doing more? What was the first named finisher? Why doesn't Jim Johnson do everything? And does The Rock hate The Juice? All this, plus some geometry! That'll bring the hits...

Hey there, welcome back to the only 411 column that has to be dragged away from computer games to do this thing, Ask 411 Wrestling!

Ok, maybe that's a lie, I'm sure lots of writers on here have to be dragged from video games. But I'm guessing most aren't playing Alter Ego or 'Yahtzee' Croshaw's John Defoe Quadrilogy. No, their off collecting guns in Borderlands and Modern Warfare 2. Well some of us want a little more intellectual stimulation in our games, thank you very much!

Plus I tend to suck at FPS. Although I love Diablo 2, so I might give Borderlands a squiz…

Banner now, before I go insane.



Before we begin, it's the return of Ask 411's Quite Interesting Trivia, brought to you by Sage Freehaven. This week, we have the overall score for Women and Tag Teams in Survivor Series style matches. Admittedly, both are quite small data sets, but one will be enlarged this year and this is the set up for the men's, which should be here next week.

Here's the female list.

And here's the tag team.

Although I wish he'd used reverse alphabetical order or something. Victoria on the bottom there, that's just wrong.

Backtalking

Again, you ask a question in the comment section, I WON'T ANSWER IT. My current question list runs to just under 100 questions, so if you want some answered, send it by mail. That guarantees answer. Albeit after a while.

AWA's Off The Top Rule: Since some people don't read the comment section, Patrick Mullin gave the low down on how the AWA brought in the Off the Top = DQ rule. And since I bow to those who know special subjects better than I do…

The off the top rope rule was used for a two fold purpose. Most clearly know the AWA was on life support immediately following SuperClash 3. This led to drastic booking calls such as The Team Challenge Series, the career ending injury of Greg Gagne, and the quick title trade between Larry Zbyszko and Masa Saito.

The Texas Hangmen and The Destruction Crew were the AWAs top heel teams, and the Destruction Crew especially were using top rope maneuvers to prone opponents, most notably "The Wrecking Ball" which was better known as The Doomsday Device.

Over time on commentary Lee Marshall, Verne Gagne, and the rest of the AWA broadcast team covering live matches sold that these moves were career threatening and became more and more incensed by them. Taking the lead from the WWF who used figurehead President Jack Tunney in making major decisions on-screen that got fans interested, the AWA decided to use their on-screen President Joe Blanchard in that capacity.

Unfortunately they didn't make a major announcement such as Hogan vs. Warrior or a 16 man tournament to crown a heavyweight champion. They used him to make the announcement of banned maneuvers off of the top rope to "prone" opponents which you took the time to explain very well and draw a great comparison with the use of kicks and knees to a downed opponent in an MMA fight.

So the banning was used to A) Shake up things in the AWA to try to hotshot the crowds which failed miserably, and B) To get the heels more heat when they did use top rope maneuvers and get them over as dangerous guys who didn't care about rules.

Thanks again Patrick.

Smarting The Kids Up: Some great, and some silly comments on this subject. Thanks for all your feedback. The only comment via mail, from Brian, pointed out, among other points, was that WWE is pretty helpful in breaking kayfabe, like when Miz and Morrison appear together on 5th Grader and so on. So that may be a good reminder that it's a show and that they don't hate each other.

The CM Punk Doghouse: Yes, the Doghouse is certainly a running joke with the IWC, and Punk has been in and out of it so much that he makes your average… Uh… I got nothing.

Regardless, I probably should have made it clearer that that was the scuttlebutt and that I had no way to confirm or deny it. But then, he asked what the story was, not exactly if it was true or not.

The Undertaker and Jobbing: Well, this is one of the classic IWC minefields. A lot of people refuse to accept that Taker (and Hogan, and HHH, and Jarrett….) jobs an acceptable amount of the time, and that he doesn't put people over. And others think he should never lose, ever.

This is a situation where there is no right answer. You have Taker lose too much, he loses his mystique and thus his drawing power. But if he wins all the time, he becomes boring. Of course, it must be pointed out that he has put people over while winning. Anyone who claims Jeff Hardy didn't get a rub from the Raw Ladder match I disagree with. And some people get more of a rub when it's dirty. Edge's MITB Cash In #2 springs to mind there.

Still, I probably am a little too generous with his performances given that I'm a wrestler, and thus I probably have too much respect/see too much into what he does. Suffice to say that it's an argument that has been going on for several years now and will continue to do so until Taker's dead.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Ok, this one is a wash. Here's the question again:

Who am I? A man who has never wrestled that guy I'm not mentioning this week, although it's now technically feasible. A man who is in contention for the highest number of total WWE title reigns of all time, more if you add in those titles held by people this person's managed. I've appeared in all of the Current ‘Big 3', as well as the older, proper, Big 3. Having gone through several looks, and at least one haircut, I am fairly easy to guess, since I am…?

I intended the answer to be the the man on the left here.

Anyone making jokes about there being a man on the right can get out now.

But then got rehired by TNA, and thus you could maybe sort of see him being the answer. So it's a wash. Although I'm happy he's back in TNA, mind you.

What show am I? A PPV that is historical for what it is, not for what took place on it. I saw two titles change hands, and another one crowned. The first 4 matches, despite having 14 people involved (including the manager), only has one wrestler still involved in the business in a major company/role. Although 2 are now trainers. The fifth match features two WWE employees battling for a title now retired. The last match had two WWE employees up against someone in TNA (I think) and someone possibly on his way in. A PPV that was held in Florida, and which featured 3 women, none of whom wrestled, I am What?

Questions, Questions, Who's Got The Questions?

We begin with a question that is fast tracked, on the basis that it's from Maffew. You make a 100+ series of awesome videos, and you too can get your Ask 411 Questions fast tracked.

I once had a compilation tape that had two Terry Funk promos on it in one of his feuds with Ric Flair. They were AWESOME promos but I've never been able to find them since. One of them involved Funk bringing out a comedy Flair imposter ("Look, he's got a yellow streak on his back!") and the other involved Funk recanting a dream he had about running over Flair in his car.
If you or anybody else know when these promos took place, I would be very grateful.

Keep up the good work.

Well, I'm batting a bit over 50%. The first one I can give you a date and show, but not video. The second I can give you a video, just not a date/time.

The promo with Terry Funk bringing out "Rick Flaire", who I can only assume is the first one you're referring to, was filmed on the 10th of May, 1989, for the 3rd of June edition of WCW Saturday Night. Ric Flair was still out after Funk's attack, and the week before he promised to bring Ric Flair out next week. He then, when the time came, brought out the imposter, insulted Ric while the fake one agreed with him 100%, which brought out WCW TV Champ Sting, leading to him and Funk brawling.

And here's the second one, after a match but I can't work out when it took place beyond it being during Flair's time out.



But then, looking at the comments on that one, you already found it, so I'll just offer this to all you other readers.

Next up, we go back to the start of my list, with Wally.

Matt,

Love the column. Just one question, are you aware of any instances where superstars were guaranteed world title runs in their contract. I expect someone like Hulk Hogan we he went to WCW, but do you know of anyone else?

Oooh, this is murky territory. I can honestly state that I've never heard with anything resembling documented proof that X or Y had a guaranteed world title run. That said…

Supposedly Luger had one in his WCW contract, hence his week with the title during Hogan's run in the nWo.

Supposedly Hogan's ‘Complete Creative Control' in WCW encompassed this.

Supposedly (but unlikely), Cena has a "must have 5 reigns" clause, hence lots of little runs for him.

And I'm sure the comment section will now be filled with people claiming HHH, Taker, and Hogan have them now.

But officially, none that I'm aware of.

Laszlo!

Hey There:

A couple of questions around the match that never was between Vader and Rick Rude at Slamboree '94. If you recall; Vader was challenging Rude for the International Heavyweight Title but a career ending injury to Rude (at the hands of Sting) prevented the match from ever occurring.

1. Was Rude/Vader slated to be the main event for the show?

I'm going to say yes, here, in that I found nothing to disprove that and it made sense given what they were going for (building Rude up to be a challenger for Hogan).

2. If 1 is yes then would this have been the first heel vs. heel main event in PPV history?

Yes, it would have beaten Shawn/Bret in Montreal (technically) by a couple years.

3. What other heel vs. heel main events have there been on PPV?

Montreal.
HHH/Angle, Royal Rumble 01.
HBK/Martel, Summerslam 92
HHH/Austin, IYH: Buried Alive in Oct 96
Mabel/Yoko, IYH: 4 in Oct 95
Owen/Farrooq, Ground Zero, Sept 97
Haku/Race, Royal Rumble 89

That's off the top of my head. Any I miss readers?

4. Was either Vader of Rude slated for a face turn? I think that the only man to have a face run was a brief stint Leon White did for AWA.

Not in the short term. Rude was meant to be the guy to challenge Hogan first after he beat Flair, since Rude/Hogan hadn't been done on a major scale and Rude was on a real roll. Vader I'm sure they had in mind for later on. And yeah, Vader occasionally worked face (which, contrary to popular belief, he could pull off), but Rude was pretty much all heel, all the time.

5. What was Sting's original role on the card? I noticed that Barry Windham was a mystery opponent for Ric Flair; I wonder if that role was originally intended for Sting.

No way, that was set in stone. They were building that one up that Col. Tom Parker had a blond 6'7 former World Champion under his employee to challenge Flair. You were supposed to think that meant Hogan. Few people bought that.

But I think Sting wasn't booked on the show. Odd I know, but there was no announced match planned. Perhaps they might have Sting fight Steamboat or something, but no match had been announced that they had to cancel.

Manu asks about ring size, and then about announcers.

Any idea what the dimensions of the TNA ring is? the length of one side, the distance between opposite flat sides (ie, the ropes, not the turn-buckles), or the distance between opposite turn-buckles? 1 of them, or all 3, will be good enough for me.

And what are the dimensions of a WWE ring? 20'x20'?

Keep up the great work!

To start with the easy one first, yes, WWE uses a 20 foot by 20 foot. Given that they have guys like Big Show, Taker and Khali and so on, plus they have the Royal Rumble and such, they need/want the extra size.

Now, TNA's ring, I couldn't find an official number, but the numbers I've heard center on 16 feet a side, with one given value of it being 16' 10". I tend to think they'd go with the 16 square, in a manner of speaking, but there may be some tangible benefit in making it slightly longer in construction that I don't spot.

And now the geometry. I should warn you, this was the stuff I struggled with in maths at school. I'm more a stats and algebra guy.

Assuming that 16 is accurate, then the length between opposite turnbuckles, the distance between two enemy tag teams, is simply twice this, 32 feet. Which a little over the equivalent distance in a WWE ring.

The distance between 2 sides uses a formula of double of one of one of these. Which is…

I got no idea, my brain just melted. And I was unable to find a calculator for this taks. Anyone out there good with a slide rule?

On the Allied Powers dvd set, disc 1, there's a Demolition vs Killer Bees match from Houston, TX, on 10-9-87.

Who was the raspy-voiced commentator? At times, it sounds just like Vince McMahon doing a funny voice. The other two commentators were Bruce Pritchard and Mike McGuirk (sp?). It sounds like Bruce calls the 3rd commentator Duke Thorton/Thorn - was that Vince just trying to play a character other than himself?

Update - the second time bruce mentioned the mystery man's name (after the first fall in a 2 out of 3 falls match), his last name sounded more like "Dorby", if that helps.

That would be Pete Doherty doing commentary with Bruce and Mike. Not the same one who has done Kate Moss, but Pete "The Duke of Dorchester" Doherty. He was a long time heel jobber for the WWF, wrestling in the New English area. Here he is in action.



But after he retired from wrestling, he tried his hand at announcing. Which he was really, really, REALLY bad at. He has now, thankfully, retired.

Doug is thanking the wrong guy.

I really appreciated your answer to the question. It was thoughtful, well-written and well-reasoned. When I heard it initially, I had a WTF moment. I don't want to waste your time, but I've got a new one:

I sort of quit wrestling the moment Hulk Hogan beat Ric Flair at Halloween Havoc 94, so my knowledge of wrestling between then and 1999 is lacking. I've heard in passing several times about Jim Cornette, the Rock & Roll Express, & the "New" Midnight Express invading the WWF as part of the NWA. My question is this: Could you explain the NWA angle in WWF?

PS: Feel free to give it the NWO/New Japan Angle treatment...if you will.

I probably should have forwarded this to Ryan Byers for the praise, but ah well, too late now.

Anyway, the NWA angle in WWF. Proof that Vince McMahon holds a grudge beyond all sanity at times.

Ok, so it's right after Montreal, guys are leaving, Vince McMahon is turning heel, and the WWF seems poised to start heading back to the top. And, for the first part, the WWF began to acknowledge the competition (beyond the Billionaire Ted skits), and part of this was that they let Jim Cornette off his leash and let him rant about the sport.



So this happened a few times, with Cornette ranting about various aspects of the business. Eventually, it got turned from shoot interviews into an angle, where on the December 29th edition of Raw, he did another "shoot" wherein he talked about the lack of wrestling on wrestling TV, and the loss of tradition in the WWF. He threatened an invasion, and that the WWF would fall apart.

The following week, the invasion began. The NWA North American title was vacated by Reckless Youth, and a ‘tournament' took place, with the ‘final' appearing on Raw. Cornette had Howard Brodie and Dennis Corraluzzo, the president and vice president of the NWA respectively with him (the NWA so desperate for attention at this point they went along with this), as he helped Jeff Jarrett defeat Blackjack Barry Windham for the title with a tennis racket shot. After the match, Steve Austin came out, stunned Jeff and mocked him. But the planned Austin/Jarrett thing was then scrapped, supposedly at Austin's demand.

The following Raw, Cornette introduced the newly crowned NWA Tag Team Champions, the Rock n Roll Express, who looked old and who wrestled totally different from the rest of the WWF roster. Not that you could tell in their debut, a 2:30 minute DQ loss thanks to Cornette's racket.

At the Rumble, Jarrett attacked Owen Hart, who eventually eliminated him from the Rumble. The following night on Raw, Jeff retained his NWA title against Blackjack Bradshaw thanks to a Windham ‘mistake', after the match he officially turned on Bradshaw to join the NWA stable.

The following Raw saw Jarrett and Windham beat the Legion of Doom, probably the high point for the group. The Rock n Roll next fought on Shotgun, losing by DQ to Skull and 8-Ball of DOA by DQ thanks to Cornette. On Raw, Jarrett/Windham defeated LOD by DQ thanks to Bradshaw's interference.

This led to Bradshaw/Jarrett at No Way Out Of Texas for the NWA NA Title, Bradshaw winning by DQ thanks to Jarrett using the racket. Next night, the RnR Express retained by DQ when a Headbanger tossed one of them over the top rope, which was illegal in the NWA. While Jarrett then failed to win the European Title of Owen Hart thanks to DQ when Cornette interfered.

Next Raw saw Shamrock make Jarrett tap after Cornette's interference backfired, and Windham go to a non-contest with TAKA after Kane came out and destroyed TAKA. And then, Commish Slaughter replaced NWA official Tommy Young with WWF official Earl Hebner (yeah, he'll call it down the middle…) for the NWA Tag Title rematch. This time, the Headbangers won after Cornette blasted Thrasher with the Racket, causing him to fall forward onto Morton. During that match, Gibson was tossed over the top rope but Hebner didn't call for the bell.

The following Raw saw TAKA and the Headbangers defeat the Express and Windham, while Jarrett quit the NWA faction and went back to his Evil Country Music singer roots.

Windham and the Express tried to win the titles back off the Headbangers, failing on the 9th of March Raw after Barry got the Express DQed with a steel chair to Mosh's head. This meant that, due to pre match stips, Mosh (as winner of the fall), got 5 minutes with Cornette. Cornette then won with an Elbow Drop.

The Express were then fired from the NWA group when they failed to win the titles back yet again, and were turfed by Cornette's new group, the New Midnight Express, in Bombastic Bob (Holly) and Bodacious Bart (Gunn). This new team were the first runners up in the 15 team battle royal at Wrestlemania XIV, and then they won the NWA tag titles the next night on Raw. The New Express when beat the Old Express on Shotgun to hammer the point home, while Cornette debuted his bombshell, the NWA World Champion, Dan ‘The Beast' Severn.

This led to stareoffs between him and Shamrock, while the New Midnight Express kept winning matches by DQ or losing matches by DQ. Unforgiven saw the New Midnight Express defeat the Old Express yet again for good measure. The following weeks saw Severn win matches by Submission, and TME trade wins back and forth.

Eventually Severn moved away from the group before being released, and the Midnight Express, after failing to win the WWF tag titles at King Of The Ring, then broke up after Bart Gunn beat Bob Holly in the Brawl for All tournament.

If any of that made it sound like the ‘Invasion' was interesting or was pushed, I apologize. The entire thing was, the story goes, just to punish Cornette for him having the gall to have been successful elsewhere, hence Vince punished him by forcing him into this silly angle. Plus he got to humiliate the NWA for the hell of it. Regardless of if Vince was evil or not, the fact remains that it was a terrible ‘invasion', and was just another group of scrubs in a WWF that had several such groups at the time.

Wow, I managed to find an early release of Hogan's TNA Tron and music! Awesome!


Doug asks about Andre. Kinda.

I've got an Andre the Giant question for you that has nothing to do with his petuitary gland.

I seem to recall back in 1986 during his fued with John Studd and King Kong Bundy that Andre donned a mask along with two other dudes and called themselves The Machines (Giant, Super,....and er Regular Machine?) Couple of questions: What was the story behind the Machines (I think they also wrestled in Japan)? Who were the other Machines?

Ah, The Machines. One in a long line of "Everyone knows, but the heels can't prove" angles. April 26, 1986 Andre The Giant missed a tag match against Bobby Heenan's team of King Kong Bundy and Big John Studd. Heenan then lobbied, and WWF President Jack Tunney was forced to suspend Andre for not making the match.

A little while later, promos began hyping ‘The Machines' a mysterious team from the Orient, managed by ‘Captain' Lou Albino. They were coming to prove they were the #1 Tag Team In The World. They were Super Machine (played by Bill Eadie, in a play off his days as The Masked Superstar, who would later be Ax), and Giant Machine, who everyone knew was Andre the Giant, a mask can't hide that. Although the announcers, tounge in cheek, speculated that it was Giant Baba under the mask.

Regardless, Heenan knew who it was, and tried to prove it. A week after the debut, they introduced Big Machine, who was played by Blackjack Mulligan. Big and Super would then wrestle most, if not all the matches against Heenan's wrestlers. Sometimes, Lou would team with them in 6 mans against Bundy, Studd and Heenan. But sometimes, when the numbers became too much, they would get help from other machines whose identity was as easy to see as Andre's.

September 10th, the two were joined by Animal Machine, whose hairy body and propensity to eat turnbuckles was unabated by the mask. George ‘The Animal' Steele, sorry, ‘Animal Machine' helped the two defeat the Bundy/Studd/Heenan group.

6 days later, Hulk Machine made his debut, helping defeat the trio with, I'm sure, a big boot, leg drop and then lots of posing and flexing of muscles while Real American played. Hulk Machine appeared again a week later to win another such match in Madison Square Garden.

A few weeks later, and a mysterious Piper Machine debuted, with a kilt, a firey attitude and probably a full Scottish Pipes Band.

And just after that, they debuted the final Machine, Crusher Machine. The Crusher, the man beneath the mask, was working part time for the WWF, and his appearance under the mask was well received.

But shortly after, the Super/Big duo lost one last match to Bundy and Studd, and were then retired. A few days after they left, Andre The Giant was reinstated, specifically because, as we found out later, Heenan wanted him back so he could get him to turn on Hogan.

The group, while billed from the Orient, never wrestled there. The whole thing was designed to give Andre a less physical role, to keep him on TV in tag matches, so he could stay on TV but be less physical. But they added in Big after Andre couldn't even do that and needed no physicality at all. So there you go.

red629 gets half an answer since the other half was answered a while back.

How do certain wrestlers get away with not having their names changed when they change feds? CM Punk didn't become Charles Davis but Matt Sydal became Evan Bourne. Vader stayed Vader meanwhile Steve Austin became the Ringmaster.

Well, Punk we covered before (lucky break + Heyman was a fan). But the older school part I haven't covered.

There's two issues here. One is legality. Some people don't own their name, or rather, the name they are known as. Despite wrestling as them for years, the Dudleys didn't own the rights to the Dudley name, despite Heyman promising them. ECW did, hence when WWE bought ECW, they owned them, so they can say "You can't use that name". So, when they can't go by their old name, they are forced to change it. Devon can call himself that because it's his real name, but Devon Dudley is out of bounds. Compared to say Raven, who came up with that name and gimmick himself and owns it, hence he can work for anyone and call himself that.

The other is fresh starts. Sometimes, despite having an established name and gimmick, the new company wants to restart them, wants to reinvent them. So, they might give them a new name to go with their new gimmick. Plus, today, WWE wants names they can own, hence every new debut, as a rule, has a trademarked, copyrighted (and more often than not, stupid) name.

Next up is Shawn.

Matt,

A few questions for your column:

1) Why isn't Paul Birchall more of a player in the current WWE scene? You'd think with his softcore porn star looks, he'd have more screen time (I'm totally serious on that).

He's not more of a player because he's found it hard to have a ring style that lends itself to good matches AND the WWE likes. Most European wrestlers find it hard to adapt to the WWE style after the European. Perhaps if/when he loses to Hurricane on ECW and then heads to SD or Raw he might get a shot though.

2) What would you say would be the first-ever finishing hold to have its own name? Not so much named after the wrestler themselves (Thesz Press, Weaverlock) but something to indicate a character (Pedigree, DDT)

Hmm. Interesting. So no "Wrestler Name-Move", nor, I assume, no descriptive ones, like the Figure Four.

The Camel Clutch springs to mind, given that it was around in the 50's at the earliest. And it's not a name, it is just used by The Original Sheik. I honestly can't think of any earlier one, since the rest tend to be descriptions (Figure 4 Leg Lock, Crossface Chickenwing). But anyone else got a suggestion?

Dan has a question now.

What's up? Love the column.

Just recently got back into wrestling a bit after a long hiatus, so this question has probably been answered before. But I gotta know...

What was the deal with The Rock and Juventud Guerrera? Juvi would blatantly and obviously rip-off some of Rock's schticks ("finally dee juice has returned to Baltimore!"), and Rock referenced (made fun of) Juvi several times over in the WWE. Did these guys have a relationship in real life, or were they just sort of goofing on each other for the fun of it?

No, the two weren't friends or anything. The story does that since Juventud is hard to say, people began to call him Juvi. And Juice evolved out of that. And then, he got injured, but they wanted to keep him on TV, so he became The Juice, and began ripping off The Rock, which, while making sense on some level (hey, worked for the Blue World Order in ECW, right?), didn't quite have the same zing that it should have.

Juvi has told stories about running into Rock at an airport, and he was friendly and ‘liked' The Juice, he found it funny. Certainly it stuck with him enough for him to make the occasional reference to him. But they were never friends or anything, it was just WCW let him parody The Rock since The Rock was popular, and Rock found it amusing. Case closed.

I'll regret this, but here goes. Lycanthrokeith, you're up.

Hello! Been a big fan of the column for a long time now. I love finding out what's going on behind the curtain, as it were.

I've noticed recently that writers of the column have been more open to receiving multiple questions from a single reader. So, I figured I'd submit all the ones on my mind. Feel free to chop these up between a few columns if you want to. I don't want to make things difficult. I just thank you for whatever blanks you can fill.

OK, here goes:

1: This has bugged me for a while now. I know WWE has Jim Johnston on payroll, and he's a great musical talent. Why, then, do they go through the expense and trouble to license so much commercial music? I mean, it sometimes makes sense for atmosphere and character, sure, and I can see it working in certain cases (John Cena using one of his own raps as his entrance music, for example). But Johnston's been making great music-to-persona choices for years. Do they really think POD (Rey Mysterio) or Rev Theory (Randy Orton) can do a better job with it?

It's not so much that Johnson doesn't have their trust, it's just that there's only so much he can do by himself. He's great for writing music, but when it comes to performance, he doesn't quite have the same oomph that a real band does. Jim will, more than often, write the song, (every track on "Voices: WWE The Music, Vol. 9" he wrote except for R-Truth's), and then they get the band in to perform it. That way, they control the rights to the song, but they get a real band in to do it, so it sounds better. Best of both worlds.

2: From the infamous Heroes Of Wrestling PPV: Had Jake Roberts not destroyed the scheduled main event of Yokozuna vs King Kong Bundy, what was the scheduled result of that match?

Yokozuna over Bundy, I can only assume. You couldn't end a one off PPV with the heel winning, especially if you were planning on making it a regular thing. Thus I'd wager Yoko would win to send the fans home happy. Besides, how would you have Bundy beat Yoko?

3: On the subject of Jake Roberts, I always wondered why he and Rick Rude never reached main event titleholder status. Sure, Rude main evented, and held the WCW "International" Title, but these two seemed like naturals. Why were they left out? I'm guessing with Jake, it may have been trust (no pun intended) or reliability issues, but no idea with Rude.

Rude was on his way up to that point with WCW (in a rare case of WCW using someone better than WWF), but the injury to his back retired him and ruined it. Roberts was a combination of trust and his being too good in his role. He got people ready for Hogan.

Of course, they tried him V Hogan once, and the fans cheered for him over Hogan, thus they stopped it since they didn't want to risk splitting the fans. And then they were to do Him V Warrior, that failed, he jumped to WCW, and then that didn't work either. Just never clicked.

4: Pyro has always made me wonder a bit. What does a company as pyro-heavy as WWE spend on an average show to make the effects happen? Also, how do they decide who gets pyro? Why did someone like Gangrel, who I liked a lot but was always going to be midcard at best, get a pyro entrance, but a main eventer like The Rock didn't?

Rock didn't need pyro, he was what people wanted to see, and it wouldn't quite fit with the character. Pyro is part of the characterisation; it's evaluated on if it fits with the character. Gangrel's entrance, which was freaking sweet, fit, so he got it. It's a choice of the writers/bookers. A wrestling may request pyro/request not to have it, and will give their justification, but if the writers say you have or don't have it, then you arfe forced to live with it.

As for cost… Let's play Fuzzy Math!

This Ohio Firm states that one Pyro effect can cost between 1-4000, plus 3 grand for insurance, but that's only for short notice emergency insurance. So let's say that WWE does it in house, they have pyro guys on staff. It's still 1-7 grand per go. So let's say an even 5 grand (Taker's huge entrance would cost more for huge shows, but let's average). 5 grand times say 5 wrestlers (PPVs have more, but most shows have less), that's 25 grand a show. Which is reasonable.

Probably way off, but that's why it's Fuzzy Math!

5: Speaking of Gangrel, exactly what was the arrangement between WWE and White Wolf Publishing? All I ever saw that White Wolf gained from the deal were a few ads for Vampire: The Masquerade RPG in the back of WWE Magazine. All I ever saw WWE get was Gangrel's name. In addition, I remember them going to court years later over the expired trademark, and David Heath still occasionally using the Gangrel name on the indy circuit. Any information on those two events?

Well, they also got money out of it, White Wolf I mean. White Wolf then sued when they brought Gangrel back for the Raw 15th Anniversary. WWE didn't both to check if they could use the name hence White Wolf (or rather, CCP as they were now known) sued. But the case got tossed out, given that CCP took too long to sue, and couldn't prove that they owned the name and were damaged by it. But back then, at the time, they had a more serious claim, since it was part of their RPG that was current and their main seller.

And they didn't care about Gangrel using the name on indy shows since that was small potatoes. Plus he could always call himself Vampire Warrior if they came sniffing around.

6: The whole embarrassing feud between Chavo Guerrero and Hornswoggle has me wondering something. Chavo could most likely quit WWE, go wrestle in Mexico, and be a bigger star with more respectable feuds and matches. But, it's entirely possible that he wouldn't make WWE-level money doing it. Basically, when a wrestler who is a big name either on the indy circuit or in another country signs a WWE/TNA contract and gets relegated to jobber or humiliation status, does staying national for the payday hurt their indy marketability at all? (Colt Cabana/Scotty Goldman strikes me as another example of this.) In general, do the indy feds and fans "understand" that the nationals are going to book them this way and cut the performers some slack? And would the payday of a highly marketable indy wrestler come anywhere near what a national fed would offer, thereby making the humiliation and bad booking tolerable?

For starters, Chavo I bet you loves his job. He gets paid a lot of money for short, easy matches that are very safe. But regardless, assuming he is upset, he'll stay for the money. A WWE Developmental Contract does not match the big name indy guys salary, but anyone on WWE TV would make more money than the highest paid Indy star, probably (if you work 7 days a week it'll be different).

And for the most part, any national exposure is good. The Boogeyman, when he got fired, was able to demand huge sums of money, so much so WWE rehired him to stop him. And US Indy crowds are, I understand, fairly big on ‘names'.

7: Given the "Bizarro Land" status of Canada fans, and how they in general love Canadian wrestlers good or bad, what was the general reaction from Canadian WWE fans to Jacques Rougeau when he was doing his Mountie gimmick? I imagine he had some face pops in Canada during his "Fabulous Rougeau Brothers" and "Quebecers" days, but did mocking the Mounted Police get him heat with the Canadian fans? (Considering he was feuding with a "Southern Hick Cop", maybe he could pull it off.)

Well, it certainly got him heat with the Canadian government, he got sued over it. I don't recall him getting cheered as the Mountie ever, in or outside of Canada. I guess his portrayal of the character was THAT good. I'll probably be told of all the times he was welcomed as a conquering hero, but to my knowledge, The Mountie was never cheered.

8: When the Mountie went to jail in New York City after Summerslam 1991, which individuals involved in the scenes at the police house were actors, and who were real officers playing along? I'm guessing the drunk and the gay man he was thrown into the cell with were actors, and everyone else was an official officer. Right or wrong?

To the video tape!



Well, my default position is to say that they are all actors, but certainly it wouldn't be out of the question to have the cops be real. But I was unable to find any proof one way or the other.

9: A long time ago, in one of the Pro Wrestling Illustrated "PWI 500" issues, I zeroed in on #500, usually reserved for some of the worst wrestlers around (Zeus once ranked #500. The prosecution rests.). A wrestler named, I believe, "Garbage Man" came in at #500 one year. Another year, #500 was Joe E. Legend. Both these guys made it to WWE, as Duke "The Dumpster" Droese and Just Joe, respectively. Now, I'm probably in the minority, but I remember Droese as being a decent enough worker. I also remember a PWI article supposedly saying how guys were clamoring to be in the last spot intentionally, figuring that since it worked for Droese, it would help them get noticed by the nationals. All this leads to my question: Did WWE, WCW, or any other major fed ever use the PWI 500 as a scouting tool? If so, was being in the low end of the 500 somehow actually advantageous in this (maybe the E figured they could come in at a lower deal?)? Also, did any of PWI's (or any of the "Apter mags") fictional articles ever end up becoming or inspiring a storyline for them?

OK, enough from me. Hope I didn't push the limits too much. Thanks in advance, and good luck to you.

I'll answer this with a famous story. Ahmed Johnson famously made a total fool of himself when he went around backstage at a WWF event, showing people his very high rating in the PWI 500, and saying that it proved he should get a pay rise/bigger push. That basically shot all his credibility he had at the time.

And the only time I know of a magazine influencing the WWF is when Vince Russo made the jump between the two.

My Damm Opinion

simmons1017 asks a question that's now clearly got a major flaw in it.

I was recently watching some old video of Raven. His character and ability to tell a story made him a personal favorite of mine. I always thought when his in-ring days were done, he would have made an awesome manager. Something like a modern day ted dibiase or heenan.

Do you see that ever being a possibility in the wwe? I seem to remember him and vince not getting along too well. Do you think a manager Raven could help push some talent?

Well, given his current status in TNA, short term it's unlikely.

Him in WWE, never say never, but I doubt it.

But Raven as a manager, hell yeah. He clearly knows what he's doing in there, and can talk, so when he does finally hang the boots up, he will be an excellent manager/leader. Provided he doesn't die first.

CourtesyFlush wants to know what I think.

1. I think the Virgil vs. Million Dollar Man feud was a great storyline from the early 90s, especially when the million dollar belt came into play. But once it was done, Virgil basically became a full-time jobber. Was that really the only feud Virgil had in him? Do you think he could have done more, perhaps with a new gimmick?

Well, certainly anything's possible. But honestly, Virgil wasn't exactly an exciting wrestler to watch, so after you got past the awesomeness of seeing him finally KOing DiBiase, he was back to what he was doing before hand, jobbing.

That said, I liked his work in WCW as Vincent/Shane/Curly Bob, for what it was. So your mileage may vary. But I don't see him ever being a big star.

2. Which wrestlers, who even though they may have been over with the fans, for you personally, just didn't work as either a heel or face? I would have to go with face Mr. Perfect. He seemed pretty over, but I just never bought him as the good guy. Maybe it was the nature of the character (cocky, arrogant guy who thinks he can do it all). Just never clicked with me. Maybe I just enjoyed booing him more. Got any choices?

Hmm.

Well, there's no-one I despise because of them being heel or face. My dislike of Batista is not so much because he was a face, more just because I didn't like him as a wrestler. His current heeldom is mostly irrelevant.

It's mostly guys who clearly are better at heels really. Jake Roberts. Roddy Piper. Raven. Those guys I don't like as faces, in that rough order of tolerance, from least to most.

The other way round, I can't boo Tara, obviously. But really, I'm a guy who booked Rey Mysterio as a heel back on EWR on 411, so clearly I have no boundaries in that direction.

How about you guys?