Five-Star Conversation 11.10.09: Batista's Turn and Other SmackDown! Happenings

Posted by Geoff Eubanks on 11.10.2009

Batista has turned in a big way. Is it any good? Has Matt Striker filled Jim Ross' shoes at the announce booth? SmackDown! is analyzed and we look at last week's comments regarding Hogan and Bischoff coming to TNA.

DID YOU KNOW? Apparently, Awesome Kong was at it again, beating down drunk guys who made the mistake of testing her. Go get him, Kong!



"Please don't show me that at this point in time." LOVE it. They stop when the Po-Po rolls by, then she go walkin the dawg! I don't think his drunk ass landed one punch. Did you see the end when the other dude finally came out to pull him away, all smiling, like, "yeah, he get like this sometime, damn foo." In the words of the great Shirley Q. Liquor, he be IGNUNT.

SmackDown!
The Undertaker starts the show in the ring with a mic in his hand to lay this on us:

"It seems like an eternity ago that the demons of hell passed judgment on the mortal world and unleashed a Creature of the Night so powerful that the mention of his very name would send shivers down the spines of all who oppose him."

Wow, and I thought I was the master of the run-on sentence!

I'm not entirely certain exactly how I should feel about the World Title situation on SmackDown! at the moment. First of all, as we discussed last week, CM Punk was summarily shooed out of the title picture prematurely after having the opportunity to have really been made by defeating The Undertaker for the strap. That, I think, was a mistake. If you have a look at last week's comments, it's quite evident that Taker has earned the reputation for refusing to put over young talent in the eyes of some and this only serves to strengthen their argument, especially now that it's pretty unanimous that The Dead Man's own "end of days" is closer than the dark birth of which he spoke tonight. (There we go…reclaiming my throne to the Land of Run-on Sentences!)

But, like it or not, what's done is done, so let's look to the current situation. I think it's pretty clear, at least at this point in time, what's going on here. With the newly-turned Batista involved with Rey Mysterio (we'll get to that situation in a moment), Edge still uncertain even for WrestleMania, and all the other Friday night heels, Eric Escobar, Mike Knox, Drew McIntyre and Dolph Ziggler, all still too green to be considered for a title shot, we're utilizing our Unified Tag Team Champions, Chris Jericho & The Big Show, as contention fodder.

This makes perfect sense if you're a member of McMahonagement, I suppose, because it kills two birds with one stone: 1) We get to pretend that Taker is actually in some kind of danger of losing his belt, having to face two men at once who are, for all intents and purposes, a team (even though we know they've not got a snowball's chance in hell, pardon the pun; 2) They get out of having to write a story for the UTTTs this month! Actually, I'm only half kidding there, because it seems to me that the tease we saw prior to Bragging Rights of distension in the ranks between Show and that racist homophobe, Jericho, could actually be taking root now that they don't have the common goal of maintaining the tag belts. With the singular prize of the brand's highest honor on the line, JeriShow could very easily crumble before our eyes.

Which is likely why we see JeriShow nose to nose with D-Generation-X on Monday night now, because I can see them dropping The UTTTs to them, distension the prime candidate. This way, WWE gets to have DX on any program they please, so as to easier capitalize upon their popularity (provided, as Paul Heyman brought to JBL's attention a few years ago, Triple H has decided he wants to work Tuesdays), JeriShow find themselves without the tie that bound them, and now, are completely at odds. Throw in Taker as World Champion to that mix and there's a pretty potentially exciting situation brewing there…except that I still don't think we're going to see a title change at the end of the story, and then we're left with both Show and Jericho beltless and taken down a few notches, which bums me out.

However, on the one hand, I can see Show actually winning the belt as an official means to bring over to SD! for good, such that we have another heel when we need one (although you know McMahonagement won't be able to resist another Triple Threat among Kane, Show and Khali, and I can do without that, I don't know about you). On the other hand, I'd really love to see Taker/Jericho one-on-one since it really has never happened. Jericho is at the top of his game right now and, even if Taker's not at the top of his, if anyone could coax a showstopping match (or series of matches) out of a healing Dead Man, no offense to HBK, it's Jericho.

Again, as with Punk, I'm keeping an optimistic attitude on this until it's proven to me that my hope is foolish. I just hope I'm not following along blindly again, even though I'm pretty sure that I am.

The heel turn was pulled big time on Batista at Bragging Rights and, seriously, I am suddenly more interested in Big Dave now more than I have been in years. That promo video we saw last Friday displaying footage of the turn was awesome, Dave's jolly smile melting into a scowl, the fire in his eyes as he allowed the rage burning inside him to become an inferno as he clotheslined Mysterio to the mat, taking the beat-down to the floor. That was fantastic and a hell of a lot more credible to me than the big, muscley dude who can just never get the job done, but still runs around smiling and kissing babies and shaking hands because he afford a pricey watch and slick clothes. I think this could be a really fun program, and one Batista needs to come out on top of to cement the heel turn (anyone see Batista/Taker next…?). I, for one, hope, if nothing else, that he rips that disgusting wad of chin pubes off Rey's face.

We've seen over the years the success WWE has displayed in featuring two separate programs in one single multi-person tag match and the six-man we saw here was no different. Dolph Ziggler's InterContinental Title chase continued here as he faced John Morrison and Cryme Tyme with The Hart Dynasty in his corner.

This was a nifty little match for the time it was given, displaying the heels' dominance as they kept JTG isolated for a good ¾ of the bout. I was pleased to see THD being given the opportunity to import their feud against Cryme Tyme from SuperStars over to the main show, as well as the evidence that they continue to gel as a team. I have a lot of time for these guys, and one has to consider that we'll likely be seeing one or both of them in Ziggler's position, ie, challenging for The ICT, soon.

It's also nice to see Shad "Swine Flu" Gaspard riding the apron like a pro. Seriously, though, I don't know what all went on there, if he was legitimately ill, even if it wasn't quite Swine Flu, or if he just didn't want to job, as has been suggested, but the fact that he only saw about :30 of ring time leads one to believe he was either being disallowed from performing as a punishment, or they were taking it easy on him in the wake of his malady. I suppose you can make whatever call you feel is appropriate. I would hope the latter (although, guess who took the fall…?).

There was a nice little story going on here. As I said, JTG was the face in peril for the better part of the match, Ziggler and THD working quite well together until Mr. Zigglesworth's ill-advised (and ultimately unnecessary) tag to Tyson Kydd, allowing JTG to spring to his corner to tag in Morrison, who, by the way, was selling a sore set of ribs on his right side following an attack from Ziggler, like a total pro. Gaspard cleaned house on Kydd, getting him up on his shoulder to set up more damage, but backing up enough such that Ziggler was able to tag himself back in unbeknownst to Gaspard (Morrison had already taken out David Hart Smith with a corkscrew plancha, and had intended to include Ziggler in the squash, but Ziggler managed to avoid the contact). Just as Gaspard was about to drop Kydd for the coup de grase, the legal Ziggler sank a Zig Zag on Gaspard from behind for the three. Shad never knew what hit him. Good stuff.

Just, next time, let's see Natalya get into the mix!

Josh Mathews sat down with Rey Mysterio for a (mercifully) short & sweet backstage interview about how he feels in the wake of Batista's betrayal. Mysterio is under the impression that his preventing Batista from winning The WT is a small thing. Now, obviously, no one in WWE knows small like Rey Mysterio, and, granted, the match was a Fatal Fourway, each man for himself affair, but Mysterio isn't seeing the big picture (and, sadly, I don't think McMahonagement will be willing to dig this far back); Batista has a long history of being Mr. Close-But-No-Cigar. He was (and I suppose could still be) considered by many Lex Luger 2.0.

Now put yourself in The Animal's boots. He's laid up for a good clip with (still another) muscle tear and has a wealth of time to contemplate how he'd like his return to go. As a former champion, obviously, he wants to get to the top, and is likely telling himself, "This time, it'll be different. This time, I don't make that one crucial error at that one crucial moment." And, for all intents and purposes, he didn't make that error at the crucial moment, it was his best friend who pushed him off a prone champion at that crucial moment. Batista is thinking that maybe his friend would like to see him achieve his goal of regaining the brand's top honor…but he thought wrong. Now, in Batista's mind, he feels betrayed by the self-righteous children's hero who's using the name of their dead friend as a moral crutch to delude himself (and the fans) into believing he's the one in the right.

It's been said here many, many times, because it's the truth, the number one rule to being an effective heel is to believe in your reasoning for being such, and this is the mindset of The Animal. And the reason this works is because it's complex, but simple to understand, it's authentic and it's human and Batista has the talent to deliver a nuanced performance to make us believe that The Animal has been awakened, which is one of the reasons why he's been such a source of frustration for me; if he has the ability to provide this quality of delivery out of the ring, why have we been slicing off a dimension or two from his performance for so long?

Meanwhile, Mysterio had a lot to prove tonight in his own right in the ring as he tempted the odds, seeing exactly how big a bite he could take and still manage to chew it, facing Mike Knox. We've pretty much seen this match out of Mysterio millions of times over the years, but there's just something about his performance time and again that leaves us in awe. To see Mysterio take the quality of abuse a man of Knox' size and strength can deliver, yet still manage to suck it up, to come back and succeed is a feat of heroism in spectacular fashion, especially when one considers that Mysterio is not the performer he was a decade ago. That's not a knock, that's just the truth. I recently re-watched the first disc of wrestling in his DVD set and it's really astounding to see the difference in his performance then as compared to now, and yet, he still manages to excite and amaze, despite having his moveset pruned somewhat due to the onset of age and accumulated injuries.

Knox offers a quality beating here, including that flying crossbody press that comes out of nowhere and is just beyond scary for a man of his size, but Mysterio fights out, regains the upper hand through leverage and tenacity and manages to come out on top. Like I said, we knew it was going to work out that way, but it's always compelling to see it all go down. Putting himself through a match against Knox, in terms of kayfabe, also works, as Matt Striker mentioned, as a means to prepare for a larger, powerful opponent (it also lends itself to the build to show that Mysterio can, indeed, pull it off). I actually quite excited for this program.

I've been a vocal proponent for the results of The 2009 Draft and how talent was sorted. However, what didn't quite work out so well was the fact that the Women's division was so lopsidedly stacked in Raw's favor, despite having a title on each brand. If one positive thing came from the episode of Raw where we saw those two smug, condescending bitches, Nancy O'Dell and whoever the other one was, guest-hosted Raw was the smoothing out of the Women's division such that SmackDown! has some legitimate talent in Mickie James and Beth Phoenix to balance out Michelle McCool (of who I have a higher opinion in terms of wrestling acumen than most…not so much for her intelligence…or her acting ability, which we also saw on display tonight in a forgettable backstage promo we're just going to pretend didn't happen) and Natalya.

Tonight we saw The Glamazon in a squash match that appears to be rebuilding her after her antics with Santino (and Santina) Marella on Raw. She looks freakin ripped and is clearly having a great time juxtaposing her in-ring savagery with her coquettish posing. She's selling and I'm buying. I have a lot of time for Beth Phoenix and with some decent booking behind her (of which we have much more on SmackDown!), I'm anxious to see where she's able to go on Friday nights.

Speaking of Michelle, here's a little something for her:



Seals are so cute. Not like those nasty eagles.

Video has just surfaced of the "Welcome Raw Divas" party hosted by the SD! Divas when the big change-over began. Unfortunately, it didn't go well:



Too, we're continuing to build Drew McIntyre, although I'm afraid he's becoming pretty much what I suspected we'd see. He's a good-looking kid (despite the fact that he has no lips), with well-proportioned size, big enough to be strong, but not so bulky such that he sacrifices speed or maneuverability. He's solid on the mic and has a command of his character that will hopefully be allowed growth and depth once he's established. The only shortfall thus far is that he doesn't seem to be much better in the ring now than when he was introduced prematurely the last time on SmackDown!. Maybe it's just his angry character looking to bite, scratch and claw his way to a spot on the roster, but once the bell rings, I'm not impressed thus far. Time will tell if he is, indeed, a future World Champion as he claims, or if he's just someone to who Vince has taken a shine. After all, remember Elijah Burke…?

BTW, if The Sinister Scotsman has moved on to beat up Jimmy Wang Yang, what does that say about R-Truth's position on the card, considering McIntyre had Truth in his sites when he first arrived in WWE?

Speaking of Truth, here he is facing CM Punk. I'm just not feeling this whole thing with Senior Referee Scott Armstrong. I mean, really, if Punk's only addiction is to competition, shouldn't he be more focused on regaining The World Title than squabbling with a referee like a petulant elementary school child who's arguing with another kid official at an intramural game?

That aside, this match didn't really do much for me. Granted, they've never performed with one another, but they just didn't seem to gel to me and, thus, the match never really got out of first gear. If this were actually about the match, though, that might be an issue with which to contend, but, of course, this segment was only here to further the program between Punk and Armstrong. Punk inevitably got in Armstrong's face over an alleged slow count, so he got in Armstrong's face, demanding that he do his job and count faster, so when Truth took advantage of a distracted Punk and rolled him up, Armstrong fast-counted him down and wisely bailed from the ring, leaving Punk incredulous.

Don't think for a second, either, that this junk victory is going to benefit Truth, however. Notice how, although he did win, we didn't even see the victor on camera afterward? The focus was all on Punk and Armstrong. Had we not heard Truth's music in the aftermath, we'd not have known at all who scored the W. For this, Punk gets dumped out of the main event. If you're gonna put me through two of the most relentlessly annoying entrance themes in the business, you could at least make it mean something. Let me put it this way – Truth is basically a bad pair of sunglasses and a parrot away from being the 21st Century Koko B. Ware. Sad.

Wow. Okay, I was saving my comments on the new interim announce team of Todd Grisham and Matt Striker until the end, but I am astounded by what I just heard as they were setting up the Batista/Matt Hardy main event. I'm basically watching a segment/match, pausing the show and typing, then going on to the next segment/match, so everything you've already read I typed earlier in the show. I had already planned on showering praise on this team, but the fact that they did, indeed, dig far back into Batista's career, that he has a history of coming so close to achieving his goal, only, somehow, not being able to make it happen when he needed it, astounds me. Also, I don't know who was responsible for taking the line from Batista's entrance music, I walk alone, and attributing it to his new attitude, but that's the kind of branding that allows a sense of completeness to a turn that is so important in making it important and to really stick.

I don't have enough faith in the McMahonagement to believe they've planned this far ahead and had this heel turn on the books for a good, long time, but announcing such as this gives a major turn such as this the implication of that quality of depth, something we've sorely been lacking in WWE for a good long time, all deference to my personal god of commentary, Jim Ross. My greatest fear now is that such storytelling comments that add so much to the tale being told in the ring and in the greater scheme of the program, as well as, such as I mentioned, adding depth to otherwise shallow plots and static characters, will be curtailed by Vince McMahon, who labors under the misapprehension that he is God's gift to play-by-announcing. I refer back to Ross; as great as he can be, listen to his stuff from old school WCW or Mid-South days, when he was allowed to announce untethered and without an inferior voice with a superior ego screaming down his ear how to do his job.

Granted, they did stray slightly into hyperbole territory when referring to Mysterio being as rattled and shaken as he's ever been in his WWE career (I'd suggest that still holds for the program I called "Dominick has two daddies" back when Eddie Guerrero stabbed him in the back, but that's just me). However, I have a lot of time to listen to this duo call action on Friday nights.

The main event of Matt Hardy taking on the new Batista is a great example of how, sometimes, a predictable outcome is necessary on the path of telling a story. I'm a huge Matt Hardy fan, but, really, did anyone expect him to put up any more a fight than he did? Hardy's assignment here was to sell a wicked beatdown by a man who oversizes him and is just beginning a monster heel run, and that's just what we saw. If there was any surprise, it was the fact that Batista opted to get himself disqualified to prove a point, ie, pounding Hardy in the back with a monitor from the announce desk, as opposed to going for the dominant finisher and pin, but that's actually the better option, because it displays the level of savagery to which Batista is willing to go now to get the job done. Too, the fact that he had Hardy back in the ring and in Batista Bomb position, but decided against it once the fans in attendance jumped to their feet in anticipation is another intelligent step toward proving to the fans that he doesn't need them, he doesn't need Mysterio…he truly walks alone.

All in all, there are some pretty decent things still happening on SmackDown!, which is really great and refreshing to see. Granted, it's not as compelling and interesting as it could be, but it's better than the bulk of what we see on Monday nights which pretty well generally leaves me like this:



POST-INVASION ANGLE FANTASY ROSTERS
This is really neither here nor there, but I was cleaning out a cupboard last weekend and discovered an old set of fantasy rosters I'd put together, probably circa. 2002…? I just thought I'd share and see what you folks thought:

RAW
John Cena
Rob Conway
Nick Dinsmore
Tommy Dreamer w/Beulah McGillicutty
Chris Jericho
Brock Lesnar
Shawn Michaels
Christopher Nowinski
Sean O'Haire

Booker T & Goldust
Christian & Lance Storm w/William Regal
Simon Diamond & Swinger w/Dawn Marie
Danny Doring & Roadkill

THE DUDLEY BOYZ
Bubba Ray Dudley
DVon Dudley
Spike Dudley

THE FLOCK
Chuck Palumbo
Raven
Stevie Richards
Rico

EVOLUTION w/Ric Flair
Batista
Randy Orton
Triple H

HIGH SPOT w/Jack Victory & Arn Anderson
CW Anderson
Steve Corino
Rhyno

LO-DOWN w/Theodore Long & Jazz
DLo Brown
Ron Killings
Rodney Mack

SmackDown!
Chris Benoit
Bryan Danielson
Kid Kash
LowKi
Rey Mysterio
Jamie Noble w/Nidia
The Amazing Red
Spanky
Devon Storm w/Daffney
Ultimo Dragon
Rob Van Dam w/Bill Alfonzo
Xavier

2COOL: Grandmaster Sexay & Scotty 2 Hotty
Aguila & Super Crazy
THE FULL-BLOODED ITALIANS: Tony Mamaluke & Guido Maritato w/Sal Graziano
LOS GUERREROS: Chavo Guerrero & Eddie Guerrero
The Hurricane & Nova
Joey Matthews & Christian York

THE HEYMAN FAMILY w/Paul Heyman
Jerry Lynn
Billy Kidman & AJ Styles

MATTITUDE
Matt Hardy
Shannon Moore & Evan Karagias

TEAM ANGLE
Kurt Angle
Shelton Benjamin
Charlie Haas

THE UNHOLY ALLIANCE w/The Sinister Minister
Christopher Daniels
Yoshihiro Tajiri & Taka Michinoku

Flawed, yes. Dated, certainly. And my scope has increased quite a bit since those days, but still, just for shiggles, I thought I'd share.

COMMENTPALOOZA!
Beautiful article Eubanks. I am also a Hogan hater and actually think that you didnt go into what a negative impact he has had on the business enough. Especially WCW. Look great stuff that WCW was putting out in early 1994 with Flair, Steamboat, Pillman, Austin, Vader, Sting, Rick Rude, and Double A, then look at the GARBAGE going on in 95 with Sharkquake, Butcher, the Yeti, Jim Duggan, making Vader and Flair jokes, Andre's "son", and the Renegade. Embarrassing........... If you want a prime example of Hogans effect on a company, look at the main event of Starrcade 93 compared to that of Starrcade 94
Posted By: kingave66

Your 11/3 column was spot on. I've hated Hogan from the first time I saw him in the AWA, as in "who is this jerk and why is he getting run? He can't hold Nick Bockwinkel's jock!" The whole WWF era then on was a joke to me. I know a lot of people, including several that are columnists on 411, see Hogan as the be all and end all of pro wrestling. To me, the Hulkster and Vinnie Jr. ended the era of wrestling as a perceived sport, and brought it to the goofy ranks of sports entertainment. I was solidly a JCP/NWA/WCW guy during the 80s. I loved the Hogan/nWo thing because I thought all of them were shit workers, didn't like them, and that made a great heel team for me. Bishoff, oh the second ingredient of this lame TNA plan, should have kept Hennig in the Horsemen and booked them stronger against the nWo but no, Hogan wouldn't have it. Fuck 'em both.

I've not been a big fan of TNA over the last, oh, five, six years now. Where to start on how muddled that promotion is. Hmm. To quote Anigo Montoya in the Princess Bride "Let me 'splain. No there is too much, let me sum up." I think that TNA has been mostly dead all day. The same cluster fuck that WCW became, is really happening again. Sign all of these past stars, let them dictate what you do with the great young stars that are really interesting, and then have lots of stupid storylines that only dilute the product. I will only watch again, I will only watch again ifffff Dixie Carter goes Stephie McMahon and lets the rack be prominent as much as possible, maybe a planned slip (like the wedding dress incident), on TV. Dixie is a fine MILFy looking gal with a nice set. They look real so go well, kinda like Bishoff challenging Vince on Nitro, "Hey Steph, we're real, you're not." See where I'm going. Now that would bring some ratings, eh? Now that's a direction.

I'm a huge Flair mark. Tired of Flair. Really like Sting. Tired of Sting. Loved Booker T. Move on. Scott Steiner was amazing when he first started working before he became a steroid addict. See ya'. Angle's angle is getting really tired. Hogan/Bishoff? Hogan says that he wants to help the young guys. So how long will it be until we see Jimmy Hart, Brian Knobbs, Jim Duggan, Ed Leslie, Wayne Ferris, and all of Hogan's other lame ass buddies helping crowd out the true young talent left at TNA? Let's start the death watch.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers to those that Escape the B'field!
Tim

It's nice to know that I have people who share my views, although I'm not looking to bring this guy out just yet:



I suppose the real test will be along the lines of the dichotomy Tim brought up; yes, Hogan has said he wants to help the young guys learn the art of professional wrestling, which, I have to admit, is falling by the wayside a bit, in the classic, old school sense. Obviously, from the SD! roster I list above, I have a spot-junkie sweet tooth to an extent, and admitted as much last week. However, man does not live by bread alone and neither does the wrestling fan survive solely on a steady diet of triple jump corkscrew top rope planchas. I think a lot of what makes so much of TNA's in-ring product more of a confection than memorable for me is that that old school quality of psychology tends to go missing, that they rely too heavily at times on the pure athleticism of their performers without putting together a solid story. They just bust their asses going for broke at the cost of telling something more complete. If my observation holds any merit, and it this iniquity Dixie and company is looking to rectify by bringing in Hogan as a backstage tutor/mentor, this might not be the train wreck in the making many of are seeing it as being.

However, Hogan was quoted last week something along the lines of he plans on bringing in his boys and turning TNA on its' ear, and that is exactly one of the greatest fears many of us have in this situation. All the losers both Tim and kingave mentioned who were well past it back in WCW a decade ago (indeed, if they ever had to begin with), have NO PLACE in a ring with the intention of competing in 2009/2010 and I question what, aside from their sacks of coke and sandbagging attitudes they have to bring in, other than teaching the kids how to burrow their heads into the flesh of a money draw and suck up to him in perpetuity such that they'll always have a job as long as he does, because that's basically The Ed Leslie Story right there.

This is going to go one of two ways, and really, all we can do is sit by and hope for the best.

Thanks for the kind words, Eubanks.

The thing you mentioned about WWE trying to put on a captivating live performance and not just a TV show struck a chord with me. Why? Because I hold a firm belief that that's one of the top 50 things wrong with TNA. Hell, I'll go out on a limb and put it in the top 20! And that's easily as much a Vince Russo watermark as any senseless swerve!

In my view, Vince Russo's primary "contribution" to pro wrestling has been to turn live event broadcasts into "TV shows", rather than wrestling events. If he could run a 90-minute angle about adultery - SEXY adultery - you can bet your ass he would. And by the end of it, we'd find out that Karen Angle was AJ's biological mother the WHOLE TIME! Meanwhile, the live audience would be sitting on their hands watching all of this go down on that big screen; yep, they'd be WATCHING A TV SHOW!

He obviously doesn't give a frozen dogshit about the reactions of a live audience; not in the face of the almighty Neilson Ratings. Is this because he was never INVOLVED in pro wrestling before he got his WWF Magazine gig? I mean, his experience before that had been watching a lot of wrestling on television; to him, it's ALWAYS been a "TV show."

Ironically, recently line-crosser Hulk Hogan is GREAT in front of a live audience... hmmmmmmmmm...

Anyway, that may have been my first real-deal Russo rant. Thanks for being gentle.

Also, hahahahaha, "brains buffet"....
Posted By: KanyonKreist

It's Larry's joke, Kanyon, I'm just trying to keep it alive. To that end, here's Linda McMahon going hunting for a snack:



The thing is, toward your comment about the differences between a live show and a television show, a solid wrestling promotion needs to be able to produce both successfully. If an event is to be televised, it needs to play well to a home audience. Stories need to unfold in a sensible, compelling manner and the in-ring action needs to stand on its own as well, it needs to come off the screen and into the home such that viewers are encouraged to tune in next week.

Likewise, the live audience in attendance needs to be entertained with what they have in front of them; the show they see playing out before them has to be engaging enough such that they feel involved and drawn in and satisfied holistically at the conclusion so they'll be encouraged to buy tickets the next time the franchise comes through the market. Too, said franchise relies heavily upon word of mouth, as well, a positive report to friends in another market will work almost as well as a good program to get tickets sold in that market, too.

The thing is, with TNA, at least, when producing TV in the iMPACT! Zone, they shouldn't have to work as hard in the ring to produce an exciting live show because of the relatively small size of the venue. Fans are so close to the action they shouldn't have any trouble being drawn into the action. If performers can't manage that task in such a setting, they don't belong in the franchise. But the in-ring portion of the franchise has never been its greatest core issue, it's the writing, which apparently is what Hogan has been hired to fix, as well (and that he thinks he can fix). Again, time will tell.

BTW, I totally laughed out loud at "frozen dogshit" and Karen Angle being AJ Styles mom. Funny stuff there, bud.

For the record, there was a comment posted that started a lot of debate, simply because it was completely asinine. I'll not reprint it for a couple of different reasons, one of them because it was posted by this guy:



But follow along. You'll figure out what he had to say.

To all you who claim there'd be no wrestling without Hogan, look at your history. Gorgeous George, Bruno Sammartino, and Andre were all megastars before Hogan. Furthermore, Hogan stole much of his gimmick from Billy Graham. He was, is, and always will be a hack who happened to be in the right place at the right.
Posted By: Iron Knee

And how do you know there wouldn't be wrestling without Hogan? There certainly was wrestling before him. That argument is so fucking outdated and tired it's not even funny. You want to rag on Flair? There's more talent in the business who got into the industry because they looked up to Flair, not Hogan. Hogan didn't save wrestling because there wasn't anything endangering it. It's that line of B.S. that lets Hogan get away with whatever as if it had any merit or actual real world value. And what does TNA's existence have to do with Eric Bischoff? It was the Jarrett's and Dixie Carter that helped spawn that thing.
Posted By: His Bubbliness

And if Magnum TA hadn't wrecked his Porsche, he'd have been a top-name main-eventer for years and The NWA wouldn't have put so much stock in Sting to fill the face void Magnum's retirement left at the top of the card.

If Randy Savage hadn't saddlebagged Stephanie McMahon in the back of his rented K-Car in 1994, he'd be in the Hall of Fame by now.

If RVD and Sabu didn't have a thing for shirtless hotboxing through Yeehaw, Ohio, they still might both be employed by WWE.

If Jake Roberts weren't so busy looking like this guy and auditioning for the role of Lindsey Lohan's mentor, he'd have been a world champion:



"And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass a-hoppin" – Nathan Arizona, "Raising Arizona".

Look, in wrestling, as in life, one can sit around playing "What if…?" all day and end up creating one's own personal "Choose Your Own Adventure" book, and still not have a shit of insight into exactly how things really might have played out.

Would the business be different had it not been for Hulk Hogan? Well, DUH. But for the better or worse, we'll never know, and any suggestions to the contrary on either side of the fence is ignorant, uninformed mark talk.

Hogan just ruined TNA for me. I had recently begun watching it to see Joe, MCMG, et cetera and was really looking forward to seeing what they'd do with Nigel. Now, I won't be able to stand it. Hogan drove my ten year old ass to UWF and NWA back in his prime. he drove me back to the WWF when he fought The Dungeon of Doom in WCW. God, please make him go away.
Posted By: Iron Knee

Maybe if were lucky, Hogan will reinvent himself again to make him relevant like he did in WCW. I'd say he should be like Terry Funk and become a crazy hardcore wrestler. Maybe even do some insane promos.

But frankly, I stopped watching TNA a long time ago (even before Vince Russo showed up.) I realized that they had talented wrestlers, but it just lacked that extra something to make me care enough to keep watching. I hate to say this, but depending on what they do with Hogan, he might even be the thing that MIGHT make watch TNA again.
Posted By: JLAJRC

Okay, I just read the little blurb about Hogan saying he had to teach Vince the wrestling business. In it he stated: "So I moved in next door to him in Connecticut and taught him all about lifting weights and riding motorcycles and partying like a mad man; and then I taught him about the wrestling business and making money. And now I'm doing that again with TNA Wrestling."

So... he is going to teach the TNA locker room how to be drug addicts & alcoholics, and how to ride motor-cycles before trying to improve the product? Somehow I'm not surprised. If they are all doped up and hungover, he will look better in the ring with them at half speed.
Posted By: Todd Vote

I much preferred The UWF to The WWF back in the day! I was bummed Channel Five saw fit to cancel it. Having looked back at The NWA, I wish I'd have had access to it more readily, especially during the Crockett years, because, despite my preference for a certain amount of pageantry and slickness to a wrestling product, what it comes down to is in-ring performance and characters who make me care, and Crokcett seems to always have brought that, much more than The WWF's concurrent product.

It seems to me that, in retrospect, The WWF relied too heavily upon static characters it was easy to grasp and understand with the diametrically opposed announcers filling in the blanks and shoving people like Tito Santana or The Honky-Tonk Man down our throats, whereas The NWA relied upon the personalities of its' performers to allow fans to make their own choice, which I would have appreciated much more back in the day.

As far as Hogan, with the apparent news that the bulk of his TNA role will occur behind the scenes has lifted some of the gloom of this situation and has more in a "wait and see" mode, although I just can't see him contained to a backstage, administrative role. How that balances with whom he's allowed to bring in and the roles they have will figure in greatly to how I feel about TNA. The fact is, though, TNA has more than enough talent. They need to work with what they've got and not dilute the talent pool with more sandbagging has-beens like The Nasty Boys and Ed Leslie. BTW, if Jim Duggan jumps ship to pal around with Hogan and the gang in TNA after being apart of the Rawster for eons when he makes TV twice a year, presumably "earning" a performer's salary, that's fucked up. Not saying he will, but his name is getting tossed around in the same company as the rest, so just saying.

As far as the whole claim that Hogan had to teach Vince the wrestling business, as with everything that comes out of his mouth, there could very well be a shred of truth to it, although not to the grand extent he claims. Looking back at Vince's history, he's always had an interest in the wrestling industry, and assisted his father in running the family business, but there's a difference in running the daily operations and creating spectacular events, such as the boxer versus wrestler match featuring Muhammad Ali and Antonio Inoki and actually knowing how to work a match or write a compelling story or what makes a solid character, complete with psychology in tact.

I'm not suggesting I know anything about this, because I have no scoops, this is merely speculation. However, before he bought WCW and ECW went under, The WWF had always had the benefit of wrestlers coming up and maturing through the territories, then either being seasoned enough in an indie, such as The AWA or WCCW, to be snatched up by The WWF itself, or to have a ready-made fan base from having worked for The NWA/WCW or ECW and the luxury of a pre-existing level of expertise came through the door with them, thereby giving Vince a much higher starting point with "new" talent to his roster.

Now, however, that he's all but eliminated his "feeders", he's stuck having to start from scratch with raw talent (no pun intended), yet seems to put himself into his own conundrum; he has a wealth of talent from yesterday working for him as road agents, whose job it is, in part, at least, to work with the kids, mentor them and teach them the "next level" of the business, the only thing is, the business they knew then is not the business they find themselves in now. Arn Anderson and Ricky Steamboat may find themselves at a quandary when they intend to teach a new generation of wrestlers "how it's done" because Vince doesn't want "his" kids to know how it's done, he wants them to know "how Vince wants it to be done", and how Vince wants it done isn't the wrestling business, it's Vince's sports entertainment business. And he may very well have learned that from Hogan. Again, just speculation.

Geoff, while I would agree that Hogan was one of the worst outside the ring, he was on tv when when I first became exposed to pro wrestling. I was flipping channels, when I came across Andre ripping the cross off of Hulk. From that moment on, I was hooked. Basically, if not for Hogan, or Andre(RIP), I would have probably become a huge fan of the Snorks or whatever I was watching at the time. It's one of those things where I think he's a bit of a scumbag, but if he were to show up on tv, it would be mark out mania. I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it. It keeps pulling me back in. Is there a support group?
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth

And, see, this is the argument that lends credibility to Hogan's having joined TNA, because I think there are so many out there in the grand international collective who aren't as close to wrestling as we are in The IWC who believe this and will be motivated by nostalgia and deeply ingrained loyalty to tune in. The question then becomes, will they stick around? Are they really wrestling fans, or did they just want a nostalgia fix and have other priorities and obligations in their lives that don't include TNA, Hogan or no? If that's the case, will it be Hogan's fault for not reacquainting a lost audience with wrestling, something they may have just outgrown anyway? Maybe these folks will have kids and be interested to see if their kids will take to Hulkamania the way they did when they were kids? Is TNA's product too racy for children? There's a lot of factors that could work into Hogan's TNA not working that really don't directly involve Hogan himself. Again, wait and see.

I said it last week, and I'll say it again after last night. Kofi Kingston is turning me back into a Raw fan. Who knew the guy would be gold on the mic after dropping the Jamaican gimmick (Anyone else notice him being announced from his actual hometown now?)
Posted By: Todd Vote

Isn't it amazing how, when a performer is allowed to create an organic personality stripped of Vince's pretense, we see him flourish? Quite frankly I am shocked that we're being allowed to see such a level of honesty from Kingston and it's so refreshing to see…! There's a quality of intensity I quite frankly didn't think was there in Kingston and it makes you wonder who else has similar such goods in the locker room, but who is stuck playing one of Vince's wind-up toys, wasting away…I think I speak for a number of folks when I say I'm looking forward to seeing Kingston climb the ranks!



RESPECK!