411 Fact or Fiction 11.12.09: Turning Point's Potential, Jericho's Comments, Hardy & RVD to TNA and More!

Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 11.12.2009

Should TNA sign Rob Van Dam? Will it be a one time deal? Were Chris Jericho's recent comments out of line? Will Turning Point be TNA's best show of the year? Could Kurt Angle vs. Desmond Wolfe be a match of the year candidate? Is it too early for a John Morrison DVD? 411’s Samuel Berman and Andy Clark debate these topics and more in the latest edition of 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction!



Hello ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to 411 Wrestling Edition of Fact or Fiction! I'm Jeremy Thomas, hosting as always, and this week we have TNA Turning Point coming up for Saturday plus some more news and developments to discuss. This week in the panel we have Samuel Berman, our Independent Wrestling writer, taking on the Wrestling Zone's own Andy Clark! We've got a lot of questions as usual, so let's get cracking!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect WWE & TNA-related questions.

1. This weekend's Turning Point Pay-Per-View has the potential to be TNA's best show of the year.



Andy Clark: FACT. Undoubtedly this is TNA's best lineup in some time. Arguably the Triple Threat Match should have main evented Bound for Glory instead of a B-show like Turning Point. You mean to tell me that the most legendary match in TNA history being bumped up from the X-Division to World Title level wouldn't have been an appropriate capper to the fifth installment of their WrestleMania? While my expectations for Angle-Wolfe will not be as high as other folks but I do expect it to be quite good, and if nothing else it's a fresh matchup. The Motor City Machine Guns are finally getting a shot at the TNA World Tag Team Titles, and add in Beer Money and a surprisingly entertaining British Invasion and you could have a show stealer. I'm a huge mark for one of the participants in the Mick Foley & Abyss tag team match (I won't spoil it) so that should be fun, and Lashley-Steiner could end up surprising us just like Joe-Steiner did a few years ago. I've got to say I'm intrigued by the Six Man Tag Team Match involving Team 3D, Rhino, Hernandez, and Matt Morgan, although I sense some Russo-riffic booking coming into play. Add what should be a fun X-Division Title Match and you have a PPV card that, on paper at least, looks like it could be one of the best live PPVs any wrestling promotion puts on this year.

Samuel Berman: FACT. Given the top matches on the card, the show obviously has the chance to be an immensely good one. I think the biggest wildcard is the matchup between Desmond Wolfe and Kurt Angle, because it is as yet unclear how well Wolfe's style will adapt to TNA. Joe vs. Daniels vs. Styles should be excellent as always, though I'm curious to see how the matchup will have developed with the three wrestlers, each of whom is somewhat more toned down than they were four years ago. Ultimately, I think we will end up with an excellent show and, yes, quite possibly the best show the company puts on all year.

Score: 1 for 1

2. MVP and Mark Henry make a good group to back up Kofi Kingston in his battle against the Legacy.

Andy Clark: FACT. I suppose anyhow. Legacy is a tag team, MVP & Mark Henry are a tag team, it balances out. MVP & Mark Henry could actually be a pretty solid upper card act and Legacy has been built up nicely thanks to DX so this can be a tag team feud that actually seems somewhat important, without the titles no less. With WWE clearly not having a plan for either man individually (alas), it is better that they be used as an effective tag team on a regular basis than just floundering in the mediocrity of the Raw singles midcard (Primo says hello). The only drawback to a Kofi-Henry-MVP alliance is that it will inevitably bring about the "They should bring back The Nation of Domination!" cries that always happen whenever an African-American wrestler interacts with another African-American wrestler.

Samuel Berman: FACT. I remain dubious about the possibility of The Nation '09, but giving Henry and MVP something actually worthwhile to do is always a good thing. I'd like to see Evan Bourne get worked into the mix as well, but for now I like what I'm seeing. That said, I'm curious how much actual elevation for Kofi will take place, regardless of his backup.

Score: 2 for 2

3. Kurt Angle vs. Desmond Wolfe could easily be a Match of the Year candidate.

Andy Clark: FICTION. Is there potential? Definitely. Will it easily be a Match of the Year Candidate? No way. Angle and Wolfe are almost as equally broken down as they are talented. This combination could be epic or it could fall apart rapidly. There is also the possibility that, despite evidence to the contrary, Desmond Wolfe may not be put over quite as much as we're all expecting. Angle could very well just get his retribution from being laid out twice on Impact. Both Angle and Wolfe are capable of putting on a phenomenal match but we've seen before with both that there can be clashes in styles that prevent things from quite playing out how we imagine. I am cautiously optimistic about this match, but anyone that goes in expecting a Match of the Year Candidate may be setting themselves up for disappointment. Enjoy it for what it is but don't rob yourself the enjoyment of a good match by expecting a great match.

Samuel Berman: FICTION. I think there is a chance that the two could reach that level, as evidenced by their involvement in previous Matches of the Year. However, 'easily' is a strong word to use when we're talking about two guys who haven't worked together in the past. Also, the bar has been set pretty high this year, given the presence of Danielson vs. Morishima, Undertaker vs. Michaels, and Shingo vs. Richards. I'm hoping for a good (and possibly great) match, but I'm not putting my money on it reaching the level of those other three matches.

Score: 3 for 3

4. The first-ever Chris Jericho vs. Undertaker match should not be given away on free television, but saved for Pay-Per-View.

Andy Clark: FACT. I must admit, caring about "saving money matches" is an IWC phenomenon that can be rather grating. Before becoming "smart" to the business, would anyone have complained about seeing an awesome match on free TV? This would just be something to get you excited for watching an otherwise ordinary episode of SmackDown. That being said, even though we tend to focus on the business side of booking matches a bit too much (and trust me, I'm just as guilty as anyone), if there is a match that we should be wanting to save for PPV it's this one. This is one of the last few big matches from the guaranteed main event money players. This could have been a PPV main event or a fresh WrestleMania opponent for Undertaker. I suppose the trick is in the marketing (they managed to book Cena-HBK at WrestleMania 23 as if they had never wrestled before for example). Even still, throwing money away or not, you can bet I'll be sure to watch Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho for the first time, regardless of whether it's on PPV or not.

Samuel Berman: FACT. WWE has very, very few first-time matches available amongst its top talent. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of another one. I'm sure Jake Ziegler could come up with one, but I'm not a savant like he is. I would have absolutely built to this match on Pay-Per-View, and possibly held it off until Wrestlemania, assuming that there isn't a plan in place to make the next Wrestlemania be Undertaker's final match. Jericho-Undertaker under the right conditions has the chance to be in the upper tier of Undertaker's recent matches, so why waste it on free television?

Score: 4 for 4


SWITCH!

5. Hulk Hogan coming in to take over TNA could play out well if it's done as a storyline as opposed to an actual takeover.



Samuel Berman: FICTION. In my opinion, Hogan is uninteresting and has very little potential to do anything but harm to TNA. I don't think his residual star power will draw enough interest to counteract the negatives created by putting him over the company's homegrown talent. I don't care if it's a real takeover or simply a domination of the storylines, Hogan in TNA is a bad thing for the company longterm.

Andy Clark: FICTION. I will say I'd be very entertained by it and am rooting for it to happen. I think Hogan as a power hungry heel could be pretty compelling television. But that's me, and wrestling businesses aren't going increase their profile by doing what would entertain me and maybe a few others. As entertaining as it may be, Hogan is best served to be the All American babyface he's always been. Quite frankly I'm not sure that you could run a Hogan takeover storyline without it becoming real. Sure, things start out kayfabe enough, but Hogan is guilty of buying his own hype naturally; just imagine how bad it would be if they acted like he had real power. I suppose you also run the risk of this storyline coming off too much like the Main Event Mafia storyline, unless you just want to extend that (as Scott Steiner's promos would have you believe) but then you'd just be repeating the same mistakes WCW made with the New World Order.

Score: 5 for 5

6. It's far too early for the WWE to release a John Morrison DVD set.

Samuel Berman: FACT. I'm not surprised by the plans for it given the current climate of cashing in as much as possible on DVD sets (and I'm not really complaining as I own MANY of the sets in question). However, I'm not sure that Morrison has enough great matches or a long enough tenure with the company to warrant a set this soon. If the company has any plans at all to elevate him further in the coming year (read: give him a top title), then they should wait and use the DVD set to capitalize on his title win.

Andy Clark: FICTION. While Morrison is still young enough into his career that there really isn't any undying need for a DVD set, he's got plenty of material to fill that bad boy up. You can have some of his first appearances as John Hennigan (like his Raw match with Matt Cappotelli where they both got caned by Tommy Dreamer afterwards), his run in MNM, his singles run as Johnny Nitro, the early days of John Morrison, the Miz & Morrison days, and his newfound face singles run. Sure a career retrospective down the line would be really awesome, but if there is just one set in saw five years there is likely to be a lot of good matches that get bumped. By doing a set now you will be able to get a lot of Morrison's "forgotten classics" and they won't be shoved aside when it comes time to do the big main eventer retrospective. It's also a pretty good booking tool. If you have a DVD made about you it proves you are a big deal and that will only help Morrison's stock in the eyes of the fans. One would think Morrison would possibly get a push to help promote the DVD so having it come out now could potentially be beneficial to his career. I greatly look forward to checking this DVD out.

Score: 5 for 6

7. TNA would be well-served to sign Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam if they can do so, as a recent article suggests.

Samuel Berman: FACT. Unlike Hogan, Hardy and (to a lesser degree) Van Dam still have the ability to bring it in the ring, and with TNA's alleged focus on its in-ring product, both could be incredibly useful. Hardy's legal future is the x-factor here, but I think both could be big helps if brought in, especially Hardy who was on a tremendous roll when he left WWE. Specifically, I'd like to see Van Dam take on Daniels and Hardy go toe-to-toe with Samoa Joe.

Andy Clark: FACT. Well duh. Both men are incredibly popular and both men can deliver in the ring. TNA can use both of those things. Are you concerned about their drug history? Why? WWE, a high profile, publically traded company has to think about who they put the strap on for appearances' sake. But TNA? What's it going to hurt? No matter what kind of moral outrage people like me will feign over the signings of both men (and considering RVD is such an internet darling and his drug fuck ups tend to get swept under the rug anyhow I doubt he'd get much outrage) they will still watch to see what they can do with AJ Styles and Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe. Jeff Hardy's signing, while probably riskier, would have the potential of bringing in the most current WWE fans. The addition of Hogan was nice and does improve brand marketability, but he's not carrying to many current Hulkamaniacs with him. Kurt Angle has been the only WWE castaway that has really made an immediate impact and Jeff Hardy, as hot as he's been over the past two years, could possibly do even better.

Score: 6 for 7

8. Chris Jericho's remarks at the Sacramento Film Festival were in poor taste and he should have offered a stronger apology.



Samuel Berman: FICTION. To be honest, I did not follow this story, nor do I care. Unless he used a racial or ethnic slur (which is really never called for), I'd imagine this is a case of people being overly sensitive. You know what the problem with sensitive people is? They always get so sensitive when you call them sensitive. Seriously, who cares?

Andy Clark: FACT. I've watched the video and I don't believe for one second that Chris Jericho meant anything deeply offensive or hurtful. I don't think he is prejudiced against homosexuals or those of Middle Eastern decent. But I am sick of people using slurs on a daily basis and them going by the wayside because people, as a whole, are either too lazy or too ignorant to have a problem with it. Why is it that slurs against African-Americans are the only ones we get to be upset about? A Muslim goes on a shooting spree after being harassed for his heritage and everyone is quick to condemn him instead of looking at the root cause of his actions (for the record I don't mind condemning a man that has killed many innocent people, but I find turning a blind eye to the bigotry that helped cause the violence to be inexcusable). I don't think Chris Jericho is a bad person, despite the fact I despise his utterance of the particular terms he used. It's a countrywide, probably worldwide, epidemic has been spread by people that apparently feel similarly to Jericho. It's the casual use of these words by folks that don't necessarily mean any harm by them that allows for insensitive slurs to be acknowledged as acceptable language, giving those that do intend to use those words negatively free reign to do so. I'd like to think that Chris Jericho is better than that and that he can set a better example.

Final Score: 6 for 8

Things were looking like a clean sweep there until the last few questions, but Samuel and Andy still go 6 for 8 for a more-or-less harmonious week. Thanks to the both of them for their answers, and a big thank you to you our readers for checking out what they had to say! That's all we have for this week…check us out next week for more 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction!

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