The Triple Threat Column 11.15.09: The 165th Edition – Turning Point, Christian And The ECW Title, Matt Hardy, More

Posted by David Martell on 11.15.2009

This week we preview TNA's Turning Point, we talk about Jamie Noble retiring, who we think Christian should lose the ECW title to, if Matt Hardy will ever become a World Champion, and if anyone will quit TNA because of the signing of Hogan. The Extreme Rules match is our Gimmick Match Highlight this week. Please enjoy!

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Topic # 1 TNA‘s Turning Point PPV is this Sunday. What are your thoughts on the card?

David Martell: This PPV is kind of a mixed bag for me. There is a lot of good stuff here but also a ton of bad. The six man tag match between Team 3D and Rhino vs. Matt Morgan, Hernandez and D'Angelo Dinero could be good but I doubt it will be anything special. First of all I am not a big fan of six man tag matches. This match also seems like the old guys vs. the guys that TNA doesn't know what to do with. I will say that I am actually enjoying the paranoid Rhino gimmick and I have never like Rhino. I think the young guys will win here. The Knockouts tag match for all the women's belts looks like a pass to me. I doubt it will last too long and I would put my money on ODB's team to win it all. Awesome Kong vs. Tara in a six sides of steel match should be pretty damn good. Both of these women are some of the best around in the ring and it is hard to say who will win here. I will go with Kong because she has been going crazy on Impact. The X Division title match between Amazing Red and Homicide has to be good. Amazing Red is obviously becoming TNA's version of Rey Mysterio because of how they are putting him over. I expect Amazing Red to win here. Bobby Lashley vs. Scott Steiner should be awful. Lashley couldn't have a good match with Test, so he definitely cant have a good match with Steiner. I would go as far as saying that this could be the worst match on the card. Motor City Machine Guns vs. British Invasion vs. Beer Money for the TNA tag belts should be solid. I kind of wish TNA would tone it down on multi tag team/ multi man matches. What ever happened to the one on one match? I am rooting for the MCMGs to win this one. Kurt Angle vs. Desmond Wolfe could possibly be the match of the night. The build for this is fantastic and Desmond Wolfe is already looking like a main eventer. Good job TNA. Besides some of the cheesy lines Wolfe has given us in his promos, I think his character is phenomenal. I actually hope that Wolfe gets the rub here because you can never have too man main event caliber talent. Last but not least, the match that should be since two of these guys did not win their match at Bound for Glory, Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Daniels for the TNA World Title. Although I don't like the booking here, this match is going to be great. TNA is going back to their roots here and these guys have never disappointed in this type of setting. The storyline of everyone backstabbing everyone is fine with me but I think that AJ is going to lose the belt here. I would personally like Daniels to win. Overall the PPV looks decent but I don't think it would be worth my money.

Sean Garmer: Looks like another good card from TNA this month. Kurt Angle vs. Desmond Wolfe and the triple threat being the big highlights. I would expect Angle is gonna win by some funny business and the triple threat should be as awesome as all the others. I really hope Amazing Red gets to keep the X-Division belt just because he has defended it so well and I've always liked Mr. Red. I will give TNA credit for putting a women's match some respect and making it a cage match. I wish I could watch TNA but I've got too much stuff recording on my DVR on Thursdays.

Zach Brown: Turning Point looks to be a solid PPV this year. But damn, there sure are a lot of multi-man matches. First of all, the 6-man street fight with the old guys vs. the young guys should be fun. I expect Rhino and Team 3D to win here. The 3 way dance for the Tag titles should be great since all three teams are very solid. The British Invasion should retain here. Amazing Red vs. Homicide could be a sleeper hit of the night, and I expect it to deliver. I'm fine with either man winning here. Angle vs. Wolfe should be a fantastic match, and could steal MOTN honors if they give them time. Bobby Lashley vs. Scott Steiner isn't the best match, but I forgive it since the card is solid. I expect Lashley to bulldoze through Steiner. The women's matches are also good. It intrigues me that all the women's belts could change hands in their 6 woman tag match. The Beautiful People could really sweep this one, and I'd be ok with that. And Awesome Kong vs. Tara in a cage match is an interesting concept. They've done women's cage matches before at Lockdown, and I've never really been on board. But this could be the match to convince me. And finally, the Triple Threat match for the title should be fantastic if done right. It's no secret that Daniels and Joe don't belong in the title picture right now, but their Triple Threat at Against All Odds 2006 was dare I say...Phenomenal. Putting this match back together is reliving one of TNA's greatest match of all time. And there's really nothing wrong with that. All in all, Turning Point is the total package on paper. It all depends on how TNA executes it. The card, coupled with a possible appearance by Hogan pretty much puts this in the must buy category. People may be worried about the demise of TNA, but Dixie her guys can at least still put together a solid card.

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Topic # 2 Jamie Noble retired from wrestling this past week. How do you feel about this?

David Martell: Well I definitely didn't expect Jamie Noble to retire. I could of seen him being job fodder for the next five years to be quite honest. I have always like Jamie Noble and anyone who actually knows the stuff he did outside of the WWE, he is a damn good wrestler. It is sad to say that he never really got his shot in the WWE to really shine. I would have enjoyed it if the WWE put Jamie Noble back in his old gimmick of being a poor red neck. That was fun and entertaining. He was actually over then. I really don't think this retirement will last though. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw him back in an ROH ring in a few years. I am sure he has plenty of nagging injuries but it is not likely for someone his age and for someone who has been in the business as long as he has to just drop wrestling all together. Either way, I wish him the best of luck in whatever he does.

Sean Garmer: Well he did good things in ROH and that's why he was signed again by WWE. However, he really never got to do anything in his comeback. I'm going to miss his bad southern accent on camera. But hey, at least WWE is letting him have a backstage role. He can keep doing something with wrestling and make some money too.

Zach Brown: This news saddens me to be honest. In my opinion, Jamie Noble has always been a great wrestler that never got the push he deserved. The way his retirement happened, it makes me wonder a few things. Did Jamie Noble plan on retiring beforehand so that he could put Sheamus over? Or did Jamie really realize that enough is enough after a powerbomb onto the ground? The way things happened, I bet he let WWE know about his retirement before the match with Sheamus. It would just be a little too convenient for Sheamus to brag about ending Jamie's career before the match, and then doing exactly that. If Jamie really let WWE know before the match, then good for Jamie that he is willing to put Sheamus over in sickening fashion like that. Now, for better or worse, Sheamus can cut promos about how he is a competitor that ends wrestlers' careers. That can definitely help put Sheamus over as a heel, and I appreciate Jamie for that. As for Jamie's reasons for retirement, I can understand that nagging injuries would play a factor in wanting to continue or not. But if I were Jamie, I wouldn't have been satisfied with my place in the company for several years now. If Jamie really isn't healthy enough to wrestle, I don't blame him for not wanting to keep wrestling. But I'm willing to bet that feeling like you're spinning your wheels in WWE can't help you decide against retirement either. Good luck in the future, Jamie.

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Topic # 3 Do you think Christian should lose the ECW Title any time soon and who should he lose it to?

David Martell: I really wish that Christian would lose the belt. I think Christian is great but there are so many young guys in ECW that deserve the chance to become stars. Hell, Shelton deserves it more than anyone. Shelton has been in WWE for a very long time now and he has never had the chance to main event any show. He has barely lost on ECW but for some reason, the WWE still doesn't know what to do with him. If Christian should lose the belt to anyone, it has to be Shelton. I would really like Christian to end up on one of the main shows anyways. He has served his time in ECW and has been one of the longest reigning champions in a very long time it seems. Why not let Christian main event on another show? I really doubt that ECW would lose any ratings because of this anyways. Have Shelton win the belt, hold if for a few months, and then let some younger guy beat him. Lets be honest here, Shelton doesn't really have any credibility to lose at this point. Shelton is one of the most gifted talents on the roster and it is just sad to see him be wasted.

Sean Garmer: No I don't, unless someone comes in that has made a name for himself on ECW. Maybe in the future Zack Ryder or Vance Archer. Especially since I don't think they will give it to some good guys like Yoshi Tatsu or Shelton Benjamin, who deserve it as well. Christian has been a fighting champion and the crowds love him. He is the biggest superstar on ECW and it helps all the other superstars to learn from him. He deserves to be champion for all the work he has done. Whether that title means anything in the WWE scheme is people's opinion. Regardless I don't think Christian should lose that belt.

Zach Brown: Unfortunately, I think Christian is a pretty stale ECW champion right now. For the record, I don't mean to hate on Christian. I really like Christian, and he has had some fantastic title defenses, most notably against Zack Ryder and Yoshi Tatsu. But Christian as a face is just plain boring, and his storylines haven't been interesting to me. So yes, I think he should drop the strap. There are so many younger guys that I would rather see with that title. Shelton, Zack Ryder, and Yoshi Tatsu are three guys that I would much rather see with the belt right now. Every time I think Christian is going to drop the belt to someone fresh, he retains...and retains...and retains. I like long title reigns, but they need to be kept interesting at the same time. If Christian held the belt for months and months and continued to have fresh storylines and interesting feuds, I would be fine with him as champ. But that's just not how his reign is happening. Hell, I'd rather see Hurricane with the title. Even Regal would be a slight improvement in my eyes. The ECW title has just not been as interesting to me ever since Jack Swagger dropped the title and then left ECW a while later. Now, since Christian appears to be incredibly difficult to beat in title match situations, whoever does beat him is going to get a big push. And I see Christian holding it until Wrestlemania. I think a heel should beat him, and I think it should be Zack Ryder, 1 on 1. I could see it being a Triple Threat match with Regal to garner interest at Wrestlemania, but I think someone needs to beat Christian 1 on 1 to maximize the push. I just hope Christian does drop it at Wrestlemania, because any later is just ridiculous to me.

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Topic # 4 Do you think that Matt Hardy will ever become a World Champion?

David Martell: Unfortunately, I don't think Matt Hardy will ever become a World Champion. I have always been a fan of Matt Hardy and I do think he is well deserving of a shot at a World title but it just seems he has fallen in the same category as other lesser popular brothers. Owen Hart and Christian are two good examples. There are two different times that I have thought that Matt was actually going to get his chance to become a main eventer. The first time was during his V1 era. He was getting uber over with the crowd and he was one of the most entertaining characters at the time. The let Matt be himself and he got over with it but the WWE dropped the ball. The second time I thought he had a chance of main eventing, was during his heel turn earlier this year. Matt Hardy was cutting some of the best promos I have ever heard him cut and his match with Jeff Hardy at Mania was my second favorite match of the night. He had a new look and a new personality, it was great. Of course they turned him face and ruined everything that he was accomplishing. Now Matt Hardy is stuck on Smackdown doing nothing. Matt is only getting older and if they don't give him the shot that he deserves soon, he is just going to end up job fodder for the main eventers the rest of his career.

Sean Garmer: I'm gonna say no mainly because I don't think he's ever going to become what his brother did. It always seems to be like this with tag teams for the most part, you'll have one that does something great and the other is average. I don't think WWE has ever given him a true shot at becoming better than he is. His hottest moment was during that whole love triangle thing and even from that WWE felt he wasn't ready. I don't know, maybe one day when the older guys are finally gone and WWE needs an established veteran to turn to, it could happen. If Matt continues to go nowhere I wouldn't be surprised if we see him TNA, where he could very well become a TNA Heavyweight champ.

Zach Brown: The short answer for me is no. (Not counting the ECW title of course.) If Matt Hardy is to ever become a World Champion, he needs to get involved in a serious storyline that really evolves his character. Matt was heading in the right direction with his recent heel turn against Jeff. I really thought that Matt Hardy was much better as a heel than he was a face. Same goes for his Mattitude gimmick. It was more interesting in my opinion. It made sense to turn him face again since Jeff was leaving the company, but it sucked because I think it was the wrong decision for his character. Nowadays, Matt does the job a lot because he can take a loss and not take a hit with popularity. But it's possible that becoming a World Champion is not a long term goal for Matt. Maybe he just wants to put over the younger guys at this point. Who knows? All I know is, if something doesn't happen with his character and/or the storylines that he takes part in, there will never be enough excitement for Matt to win a world title. Plain and simple.

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Topic # 5 With Hogan coming into TNA, do you think any of the talent will leave the TNA roster?

David Martell: It is hard to say. It seems that there are a lot of people backstage that are unhappy with this turn of events. I can see why people would be angry because with Hogan in the company, someone is going to pushed away so Hogan can take the spotlight. Hogan hasn't even been on the show yet but every week he is getting highlighted. If I was a young guy in TNA I would honestly look for work else where. I am sure that the WWE would be happy to have some of them on the roster but even if they go to WWE I guess they aren't promised a good spot in the company. If anyone leaves TNA because of Hogan, it probably wont be till he starts running things. That could be months from now. Who knows. I just hope the TNA talent are ready for what's coming because some of them could become irrelevant.

Sean Garmer: It all depends on what happens. I don't think Dixie Carter is going to let anyone leave as soon as he gets there. As I said before, some part of me believes that Hogan understands that he cannot carry this promotion alone. He lived through what happened with WCW and knows the old guys have to help make new stars in order for a company survive. I wonder what his ideas will be in the creative aspect, especially working with someone he hasn't historically gotten along with like Russo. Dixie seems determined to keep this "New TNA" going. I don't see anyone leaving unless Hogan makes it clear that person has no use with TNA.

Zach Brown: Within the next few months, I think it is very possible for some of the roster to request their releases. Heck, I've heard that a few unnamed wrestlers were already denied their releases pretty recently. The future of TNA is uncertain without a doubt. So many of the comments I've read on 411 have been overwhelmingly negative about Hogan joining, and rightfully so. I understand that Dixie Carter wants to go hard or go home, but giving Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff the reigns to your company is the simply the wrong decision. If I were a young talent that isn't being properly utilized, I would definitely be thinking about how to go about getting released right now. And there are several wrestlers that I think feel this way as well. I'm willing to bet that AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels want and deserve their releases. AJ Styles is Mr. TNA and he does have the belt, but he is clashing with creative right now, and I bet that can be frustrating. Christopher Daniels wrestled as Curry Man for a year...'nuff said. I think the same could go for Hernandez and The Motor City Machine Guns simply because of the way the creative team never has anything worthwhile for them, and it really feels like they are constantly spinning their wheels. Also, I think it is likely that Kurt Angle won't resign and will return to WWE when his contract expires. Again, this is all pure speculation. Maybe none of these guys want to leave TNA. But with how some of them are being used right now combined with where the company looks to be heading, I couldn't imagine them being happy with their current place in the company. And maybe all this worry is over nothing. Maybe Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff won't run TNA into the ground. Ah, who am I kidding? Of course they will. Bottom line, I do expect a group of talent to be released from TNA in the coming months.

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Gimmick Match Highlight



Our thoughts on the Extreme Rules Match.

David Martell: I never understood why the renamed a Hardcore match to Extreme Rules match. I guess it is an ECW thing but to me it just sounds dumb. I personally like hardcore matches when they are done right. I am not a big fan of having lots of hardcore matches but every once in awhile it is cool. I think it is especially cool for the ECW brand. I think it is a good way to continue or end a feud on ECW and it fits with the land of extreme gimmick of the show. The Extreme rules matches between Swagger and Dreamer and the one between Christian and Dreamer have both been very good. These matches just made sense for storyline purposes and everything just clicked. Christian even used a car door! I like the idea behind the match and I am glad they the rarely use it because in the end it just makes out for a special match.

Sean Garmer: Named after ECW, the land of extreme, where they pretty much invented how to do the hardcore match. Since they've come up with this moniker for the match-up, the match at the first One Night Stand between RVD and John Cena was awesome mainly because of the crowd reaction. They pretty much started the crowd reaction that Cena gets to this day. Giant Baba called this garbage wrestling (well before they actually started using trash cans.) Is it that? I guess if you are a wrestling purist yeah, but for me its not. If Mick Foley has shown us anything over the years its that there is an art to these matches. He showed people how to mix wrestling, storytelling, and bashing people with stuff, all together. I don't like stuff you see in the indy feds where its just "let's grab the nearest hardcore object and hit each other until we can't go anymore." I'm glad WWE uses this sparingly now because then it because something people want to see. The hardcore match has evolved into all these other matches we have now, especially things like TLC. TNA uses it more, but it tends to work in their promotion to greater effect.

Zach Brown: Extreme Rules matches, or Hardcore matches for that matter, can be very fun if done correctly. First of all, I think there is a difference between a Hardcore or Extreme Rules match as opposed to what is considered to be "Garbage Wrestling". The difference for me, is that guys in WWE, TNA, and even some of the Indy promotions can do a lot of normal wrestling, as well as a Hardcore match. Most of the guys in the big leagues know that regular wrestling comes first, and a Hardcore match can be fun when done every once in a while. Knowing that wrestlers don't have to rely on the hardcore style of wrestling is what makes me respect the guys in a Hardcore or Extreme Rules match. Garbage Wrestling is what it is when that is the only thing those guys know how to do, and they just go over the top with it. I appreciate when guys lose a lot of blood, take tack bumps, or really give it their all just to please the fans. But things like weed whackers don't belong in a ring. Nothing against Sick Nick Mondo, but I always found him very hard to watch. And I've seen countless live hardcore matches where I've really appreciated what those guys did. For example, I used to hate a wrestler named Andy Dalton who is regular around the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Hell, I still do dislike the guy very much, but at least the guy is an effective heel. Anyway, I would always get right in his face every time he came out to ringside. The guy made my blood boil, no joke. But in the last match I saw him in, he shed so much blood and he gave it his all. He was a bloody mess, and then took like two piledrivers or something like that. It was so much that I had to go up to him after the match and thank him for what he did. It made me realize that giving it everything you've got in a hardcore match, and doing ridiculous or stupid spots are two very different things. As for Hardcore matches in the big league companies, I always like seeing them when used sparingly. Both Edge and Randy Orton were really put over in their Hardcore matches with Foley. It can really be a great proving ground for a wrestler, and can solidify them in a lot of fans' eyes. I like the Extreme Rules match. It all depends on what goes into it, and if it does anything for the participants involved. But it is almost always a lot of fun to watch.

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That is all for this week. Feel free to comment at the bottom of the page and have a great week in wrestling. CYA!