The Wrestling News Experience: 11.16.09
Posted by Stephen Randle on 11.16.2009
In this special six-year anniversary Experience, we have Turning Point results as TNA actually looks to turn a corner, a preview for tonight's Raw from MSG, plus WWE takes on Twitter, Hogan muddies the waters some more, and what does a failed Fox drama have to do with pro wrestling? Find out inside!
Monday, November 16th, 2009
From 411Mania's Canadian offices in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, this is The Wrestling News Experience, with Stephen Randle!
Six Years And Still Going Strong
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the end of my sixth year (more or less) hosting the Experience, the longest running weekly wrestling column on 411Mania, I am Stephen Randle. Readers, while today is a day of celebration, unfortunately, I am a little peeved. As you may know, last week, some of my critics who shall remain Prag attempted to make mockery of my knowledge of WWE's financial state. Listen, Prag. I may not have your fancy law degree (although I have do have two degrees, and they're Canadian so they each count double), or your knowledge of economics and ratings and everything else that puts normal people to sleep. No, while you sit there in your ivory lawyer tower with your "facts", I rely instead on my…"fanscience" (Editor's Note: pronounced like "conscience"). That's right, my innate ability to know that everything I believe about my interests is correct, because I'm a fan. It's the part of the brain that creates eternally optimistic Maple Leafs fans, that creates new rumours about Bret Hart returning to WWE every year, and makes Yankees fans believe that anyone outside of New York actually gives a damn about their baseball team. So, Prag, you can come out every week in The Hamilton Ave Journal, exclusively here on 411, and you can spout off all the numbers and facts that you want. Meanwhile, I, one of the true wrestling fans, will sit here, secure in the knowledge that my fanscience is clear, and thanks to my dedication to pro wrestling fandom, I can rest assured that I am always correct.
Moving on.
Lansdell had live coverage. In addition, he requests that I agree with the statement he made about Kitchener in last week's 2 Raw, 2 Furious, and I do. I also concur that I will, in fact, cut a bitch.
Amazing Red defeated Homicide to retain the X Division Title (pinfall, Code Red)
Not that I'm unhappy with the decision, but has joining the World Elite really helped Homicide at all?
Taylor Wilde, Sarita, and ODB defeated The Beautiful People to retain the TNA Knockouts and Knockouts Tag Team Titles (ODB pinned Rayne, TKO)
The British Invasion defeated Beer Money and The Motor City Machine Guns to retain the TNA Tag Team Titles (Magnus pinned Roode, European Hart Attack)
Tara defeated Awesome Kong in a Six Sides of Steel match (pinfall, top-cage crossbody)
Rhino and Team 3D defeated Hernandez, Matt Morgan, and Pope D'Angelo Dinero in a Street Fight (Rhino pinned Hernandez, Gore)
I'm hoping Team Youngstars comes out on top eventually, because otherwise, this makes no sense, given that moving from main event feuds to fighting the Midcard Mafia seems counterproductive for Hernandez and Morgan.
Scott Steiner defeated Bobby Lashley in a Falls Count Anywhere match (pinfall, pipe shot)
Alert the media, Scott Steiner is still relevant in 2009. Actually, Scott Steiner is still relevant after Royal Rumble 2001.
Kurt Angle defeated Desmond Wolfe (submission, triangle choke-armbreaker)
Hey, look, TNA remembered how they became an alternative to WWE – Wrestling!
AJ Styles defeated Daniels and Samoa Joe to retain the TNA World Title (Styles pinned Joe, springboard 450 splash)
Hey, look, TNA remembered how they became an alternative to WWE – Wrestling! (Part 2)
Well, Lansdell gave it five stars, and he didn't even give previous MOTY favourite Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker that rating, so there you go. Personally, I can't go that far just because Daniels has been a non-entity in TNA for over a year up until he suddenly got this match, but hey, I'm not going to argue strenuously against it.
Oh, Shawn-Taker isn't my Match of the Year, either. You'll have to wait to find out.
Buddy?
I Thought Hulk Hogan Was In TNA? When Do I Get To See Him?
Tonight's Host: Provided He Doesn't Give Any Interviews Before 9 Tonight
Tonight, Raw takes place in the World's Most Famous Arena, and the home base for WWE, Madison Square Garden. And to headline the show, both main event matches for Survivor Series will be featured, as the announced big match for the show will pit D-Generation X against JeriShow against John Cena and The Undertaker in a Triple Threat Tag Team match. With titanic forces on every side, who will emerge with the momentum heading into WWE's Fall Classic?
Plus, Melina will defend the "coveted" Divas Championship against #1 Contender Alicia Fox, who won the right to face the champion in one of the smallest battle royals in wrestling history. But hey, at least we've got another match on the card!
Meanwhile, one of the teams for Survivor Series seems to be in a little bit of turmoil, as The Miz is having trouble keeping team member Jack Swagger in line, and in addition, he cost his alleged teammate a match against Team Morrison member Evan Bourne, ending Swagger's promise of an undefeated streak to end 2009. How will the All-American American American react to last week's events involving his apparent team captain?
And for the first time since…the last time they changed themes to the terribly awful "Wanna Be Loved", tonight's Raw will debut its newest theme song, Nickelback's "Burn it to the Ground". You know, Michael Cole can call them the biggest band in America all he wants, they're still going to be Canadian, and we were sick of them three years ago.
"Independent" Contractors, Right?
News is filtering down, possibly through Twitter, that WWE is looking to restrict the widespread usage of the oddly popular status update system amongst its wrestlers, who, lest we forget, are independent contractors who must do what WWE says. Apparently the newest rule is that wrestlers are not to use Twitter for personal messages, only for promoting WWE events. Yeah, because that's entirely what people read wrestler Twitter feeds for, more advertising to pay for the next PPV. I would remind everyone once again that WWE has always maintained that the people who pay attention to wrestling news (which I would presume include Twitters from wrestlers) consists of an incredibly small percentage of fans and WWE doesn't actually pay attention to anything they do, because they're nothing but cynical nerds who hate everything. But I suppose Chris Jericho Twitter-fighting with The Miz might inadvertently entertain people in a way not previously approved by the thousand monkeys with typewriters they have over-scripting every segment of Raw, and thus must be suppressed immediately. Or something.
He's Not Even A Wrestler Anymore, Part 257
Shocking news out of UFC this past week, as former WWE Superstar and current UFC Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar was reported to have collapsed while spending time in Canada, recovering from an illness (reported to be mono) that had prevented him from defending his title at UFC 105. Lesnar is still hospitalized and said to be in serious, but not life-threatening, condition, and while details are few and sketchy, the possibility exists that Lesnar's illness may result in the former Next Big Thing being unable to compete in UFC for a long time, potentially forever. Now, I will admit to being upset at how Lesnar left wrestling, and yes, I was ever so pleased when he washed out of his dream of playing in the NFL. However, Lesnar seemed like he had finally found a career that both suited him and which he could excel at, and as someone still searching for that elusive dream, it is disheartening to think that he could possibly be denied that due to an unfortunate series of circumstances. All of us here at the Experience wish Brock Lesnar the very best, and hopefully a speedy and full recovery, so he can go back to doing what he loves.
Hogan!
In the continuing saga that seems sure to guarantee that Hogan will get serious consideration for Comeback Wrestler of 2009 in the upcoming 411 Year End Awards (assuming some people have already forgotten about Ricky Steamboat stealing all our hearts at WrestleMania), the Immortal One went on his usual radio show rounds and told everyone that not only is he not planning to be an on-air character in TNA, he wants to bring in Randy Savage (unlikely), Steve Austin (even less likely), and the Nasty Boys (ding ding ding!). But hey, he's not a) working the smarts into a lather for his own personal fun or b) planning to take over TNA with his buddies until the cheques stop coming or Vince offers him more money, at all.
Oh, right, there's always c) batshit crazy. I keep forgetting c).
Good Ol' JR
Strange doings in JR's blog, as once again the Oklahoma Cowboy has gone off on those darned Internet fans for spreading rumours that WWE is planning to replace the venerated announcer with old WWE alumni and one of the worst announcers not named Adamle ever to grace the WWE airwaves, Sean Mooney. First of all, who in their right mind would ever believe that rumour could be true. I mean, shuffling JR to a "big show" announce role with Matt Striker remains tearing up Smackdown, sure, that I buy. But replacing JR with a guy who should feel lucky that Lord Alfred Hayes and Pete Doherty existed to distract from how horrible he was (man, there were a ton of bad announcers back then, weren't there)? I don't think so, Tim. Second of all, where was this rumour? The first I even heard of it was JR mocking the Internet for creating it. Is JR making up rumours under fake names just so he can have angry statements for his blog?
Or is the answer c) again?
Dollhouse
All right, this bit gets long, so stay with me for a second. This week Fox announced that Dollhouse, the latest attempt from Joss Whedon to keep a show on network television, will be cancelled after its current 13-episode run. The show will, therefore, finish with a grand total of 26 aired episodes over two years, barely a full real season of any other show. Which is a shame for the usual reasons, plus the fact that the story had really picked up at the end of the first season and the start of the second (although its still far lower in quality than Firefly but that goes without saying). The show's cancellation comes as no surprise for anyone paying attention, given that Fox gave it a horrible timeslot, no promotion, and just expected people to watch because Joss Whedon created it. Which, given the ratings, they probably did, but Whedonites on their own are a pretty small fanbase.
And as I thought about it, I considered all the other TV shows that have been given quick deaths in the past few years, some even after one or two episodes. Back in the day, when Futurama was cancelled, I would often joke that Fox was upset that it wasn't an instant hit like The Simpsons. But at least they even let that show have four seasons. My DVD shelves are bursting with smart, funny, and intriguing television shows that I found to be incredible, but which all lasted a single season or less. The point is, television networks are no longer patient with the shows they put on the air. They want everything to be a ratings giant now, not two or three seasons down the road once the show finds its voice, and a loyal audience. Never mind that under that philosophy, a show like Seinfeld would have been cancelled after eight episodes due to low ratings, networks want the shows they put up each season to be the next CSI, the next American Idol, the next Survivor, and they want it right away, before the winds change and suddenly, your network isn't in first or second place on Thursday nights anymore.
So, what does this have to do with wrestling? I think you can probably guess. Seemingly drawing their ideas from everything else on TV, WWE and TNA seem, more than ever lately, to be determined to change their fortunes right now. Everyone just can't wait to find the next Hulk Hogan or Rock or Steve Austin, and while WWE thought that they might have had it in Cena, it's pretty obvious that he'll never be the iconic figure that any of the previous three mentioned have become. So, in the meantime, they'll trot anybody out there from developmental that they think might be able to string two moves together, no matter if they're ready for the spotlight of international prime-time or not (see, Eric Escobar, Drew MacIntyre, Sheamus), latch onto comedy acts that garner a few laughs, overscript them and push them out into segment after segment, week after week, until everyone's tired of the jokes (see, Santino Marella, Hornswoggle), and do whatever they think they have to do to find the "next one" who will bring back the golden age of wrestling. But at the same time, they're not willing to let anyone stand out on their own and make the fans recognize their potential. If you can't draw heat in two weeks, well then, it's off to seventh quarter hour segments, ECW, or back to developmental for you, my boy. Sorry, wrestling may be your lifelong dream, but we need you to sell t-shirts based on two squash matches and a couple promos, and we need you to do it now. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter that the guys on top are moving further and further away from their prime, we'll keep their programs running longer than anyone can stand, kind of like letting shows like ER drag on season after season until everyone just stops watching. Those guys on top, well, they already connected with the audience five or ten years ago, back when we cared about giving people time to develop characters, and we can't get rid of our alleged cash cows.
So, what's the solution? Is there one available? The TV networks find themselves relying more and more on cheap-to-produce reality TV to plug holes in their schedules left by cancelled shows (and we may finally be seeing the backlash against that, right Jay Leno?), while cable and pay channels seem to be reaping the benefits of disenfranchised writers, brimming with creative ideas that wouldn't immediately draw that 10.0 share on NBC, but which might win dozens of awards and eventually get discovered and beloved by the general public. And as for pro wrestling, is there a chance that philosophies could change, and a new icon could rise, slowly, like a phoenix from the ashes of the current product? Optimists would tell you that it has always happened before, it is bound to happen again (and fingers crossed, it'll involve John Morrison). So tune in, because the next Simpsons, the next Ric Flair, or even the next Joss Whedon show that doesn't get cancelled by Fox could emerge this week. Or next week.
Maybe all they need, is a little time.
Inactive List as of 11.09.09
WWE Raw
- Maryse, out indefinitely as of July 28th (knee surgery)
WWE SmackDown
- Edge, out indefinitely as of July 4th (torn Achilles tendon)
- Jim Ross, out indefinitely as of October 20th (Bell's Palsy)
- The Great Khali, out indefinitely as of September 15th (knee surgery)
ECW
- No reported injuries
TNA
- Jeff Jarrett, out indefinitely as of July 21st (self-imposed suspension)
- Daffney, out indefinitely as of October 19th (broken arm)
Transactions
- Jamie Noble, RAW, retired from in-ring competition
- Jim Neidhart, made special appearance on November 12th Impact
Lansdell's words from the 411 Impact Report echo my own "I just saw Jim Neidhart win a singles match in 2009. I want some of whatever Russo is on."
- Raven, TNA, returned to TNA on November 12th Impact
WWE
WWE Champion: John Cena
- 22 day reign, defeated Randy Orton in an "Anything Goes" Iron Man Match on October 25th (Bragging Rights PPV)
- Next title defense: vs Triple H and Shawn Michaels, Triple Threat Match, Survivor Series PPV
World Heavyweight Champion: The Undertaker
- 43 day reign, defeated CM Punk in a Hell in a Cell Match on October 4th (Hell in a Cell PPV)
- Next title defense: vs Chris Jericho and The Big Show, Triple Threat Match, Survivor Series PPV
ECW Champion: Christian
- 113 day reign, defeated Tommy Dreamer on July 26th (Night of Champions PPV)
WWE Intercontinental Champion: John Morrison
- 73 day reign, defeated Rey Mysterio on September 4th (Smackdown)
- Next title defense: vs Dolph Ziggler, 2/3 Falls Match, November 20th Smackdown
WWE United States Champion: The Miz
- 42 day reign, defeated Kofi Kingston on October 5th (Raw)
WWE Undisputed Tag Team Champions: Chris Jericho and The Big Show
- 113 day reign (as team of Chris Jericho and Big Show), The Big Show named as replacement for former champion Edge on July 26th (Night of Champions PPV)
- 28 day reign (as team of Chris Jericho and Edge), defeated former champions The Colons and Legacy in a Triple Threat Match on June 28th (The Bash PPV)
WWE Women's Champion: Michelle McCool
- 141 day reign, defeated Melina on June 28th (The Bash PPV)
WWE Diva's Champion: Melina
- 35 day reign, defeated Jillian Hall on October 12th (Raw)
TNA
TNA Heavyweight Champion: AJ Styles
- 57 day reign, defeated former champion Kurt Angle, Matt Morgan, Hernandez, and Sting in a Five-Way Match on September 20th (No Surrender PPV)
TNA Tag Team Champions: The British Invasion
- 29 day reign, defeated Beer Money, Inc., Team 3D, and former champions Booker T & Scott Steiner in a Full Metal Mayhem match on October 18th (Bound For Glory PPV)
TNA X-Division Champion: Amazing Red
- 39 day reign, defeated Samoa Joe on October 8th (Impact)
TNA Knockouts Champion: ODB
- 92 day reign, with Cody Deaner, defeated former champion Angelina Love and Velvet Sky in a tag match on August 16th (Hard Justice PPV)
TNA Knockouts Tag Team Champions: Taylor Wilde and Sarita
- 57 day reign, defeated The Beautiful People (Velvet Sky and Madison Rayne) to win the newly created title on September 20th (No Surrender PPV)
TNA Global Champion: Eric Young
- 29 day reign, defeated former champion Kevin Nash and Hernandez in a Triple Threat match on October 18th (Bound For Glory PPV)
411 will have live coverage of Raw tonight starting at 9 pm EST.
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wow. what did tom "durrrrrrrrrrrrrr" dwan do to be dead to you. he is owning in the durrrrrr challenge, and just signed to be a team full tilt pro. he is doing very good for himself.
Posted By: frank (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 02:09 AM
Tom Dwan bugs me too! Just something about his face.....
Nice TNA PPV review. As people will say HBK/Taker is over-rated 'just because of who it was', I think no matter how the match went last night, fans were going to give it 5 stars.
Same as Angle/Wolfe, no matter how it went, people were going to jump all over it and call it golden 'just because of who it was'.
I saw Turning Point. I liked it, but outside of the two main events, it was a very forgettable show, at best. It will be the talk of the IWC for the next 24 hours, until RAW in MSG tonight, but to think that this is a 'turning point' for TNA is just some kool-aid drinking at its best.
Posted By: Classic (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 02:03 AM
Hogan just gets worse and worse on his media tour for TNA. People keep saying he is going to bring mainstream attention to TNA. Well, three week later, and nothing has changed in terms of numbers and ratings.
To people that think that the second he does show his face, it will all change for the better is just setting themselves up for a major, major disappointment.
Posted By: (The Real) Industry (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 02:06 AM
I'm really confused by your rant about WWE giving up on wrestlers too easily. Citing McIntyre and Sheamus as examples seems to be counter-productive to your point. Although, yes, perhaps they've been brought up a little too early, they've both been getting steady pushes, are improving rapidly and are truly starting to get over with the crowd. McInytre is consistently getting good reactions and since Sheamus's absolute rape of Noble, he has too.
Posted By: DaHumorist (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 02:22 AM
Damn...how many "Industry" people do we have to have. We have the registered Industry, some bloke thinking he's the real industry, and this jackoff...
Posted By: The IWC (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 03:40 AM
Right on, Randle! I hate how WWE is constantly pushing guys right out of the gate and then giving up on them! Guys like Kofi Kingston, Miz and Morrison!
Posted By: Guest#5012 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 05:51 AM
It's simple - as you say, give talent more time to get over and secondly...ahem...FIRE THE FUCKING WRITERS!!!!
No star is going to break out and become the next icon if they have their hands tied by the writers.
Did Hogan have writers for his promos (clearly not given how nonsensical they were). Did the Rock? Austin?
Would Cena have gotten over at all if it was the writers producing his raps?
Can't they just try giving somebody an open mic on Smackdown so they can edit the promo if it stinks? Subvert the form...aaarrrggghhhh.
Posted By: Jim Cornette (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 07:56 AM
You have to be the smarkiest of smarks or completely delusional to NOT think that Cena IS the next Austin/Hogan. Whether you guys like it or not, its a fact that John Cena is this generations top dog. In the 80's it was Hogan, in the 90's mid 90's it was Bret Hart, in the late 90's early 2000's it was The Rock and Austin and again whether you like it or not, today its John Cena. He is a house hold name. You could ask ANY non wrestling fan in the 80's who Hulk Hogan is and they would know, same with Austin and The Rock. Anyone who loathes wrestling knows who they were and even today people who cant stand wrestling know who John Cena is. Period
Oh and suck it HHH. You will NEVER be that guy no matter how hard you try.
Posted By: Guest#2131 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 10:24 AM
I agree with Classic.
Outside of last two matches, it was forgettable. Hell, I fell asleep during Team 3D/Rhino v. the youngsters and Steiner v. Lashley.
The last two matches were pretty fucking good though. Tag Team match was ok also. But Sabin's posings reminds me of Ben Stiller character in Dodgeball.
Posted By: Big Fat Fag (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 08:45 AM
Perhaps more than other networks, Fox seems particularly eager to pull the trigger. I remember there was a promising show a few years back called Drive, which was essentially a cross-country race, but with each character getting involved for their own reasons. Unfortunately, it got canned after 3 weeks or so. Elisha Dukshu's previous TV show, Tru Calling, also suffered a similar fate as Dollhouse, although it at least got a season + six episodes or so. Unfortunately, it got cancelled right when it was just starting to get really interesting.
I say Josh Whedon should forgo network TV altogether and try to get his next show (or perhaps some additional seasons of Dollhouse) on cable. The pressure for ratings isn't as great, and networks like USA, Scyfi and TNT are where cult shows can go to thrive for a few years.
Posted By: Michael L (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 09:29 AM
It's easy to say "Back then you didn't need writers" when back then people were on the road in territories for eight to ten years honing their craft before they were televised. I'm not saying that we should go back to that, but I will cite that you can't compare the time periods.
BTW - I'd also like to add Jack Swagger, Evan Bourne, and Dolph Ziggler to the "Youngsters Getting Over" list.
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Avery owns hockey
Posted By: Jimbo (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM
re Cena not being an icon on the level of the Rock or Austin.
That may be true, but Cena is close to that level during a much less successful era. I was watching Top Gear last night (British motoring show) and they were driving through Romania. Driving through the Romanian country they were surrounded by a bunch of locals and the kids started writing on the dusty cars...one of the kids wrote John Cena. Very weird seeing that in that area of the world....and some indication of how Worldwide the WWE actually is. Perhaps they've surrendered a portion of their domestic audience but replaced it with a large international following?
Posted By: dennett316 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Loved the section on shows and wrestlers needing more time to catch on. My wife and I have argued that for years and left notes to that effect when we were a Neilson house. So far no one's listening. Well, no one in charge of a network.
Posted By: Pete (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Re: JR's comments.
Remember that he'll get a dozen messages from cheezboy fans whenever any podunk wrestling site puts up a rumour. So, to him, it sounds like a big deal whenever this crap comes up. And random stupid speculations spread wildly.
Posted By: Iain (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 12:37 PM
You have to be the smarkiest of smarks or completely delusional to NOT think that Cena IS the next Austin/Hogan. Whether you guys like it or not, its a fact that John Cena is this generations top dog. In the 80's it was Hogan, in the 90's mid 90's it was Bret Hart, in the late 90's early 2000's it was The Rock and Austin and again whether you like it or not, today its John Cena. He is a house hold name. You could ask ANY non wrestling fan in the 80's who Hulk Hogan is and they would know, same with Austin and The Rock. Anyone who loathes wrestling knows who they were and even today people who cant stand wrestling know who John Cena is. Period
Oh and suck it HHH. You will NEVER be that guy no matter how hard you try.
Posted By: Guest#2131 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 10:24 AM
I don't know one person who doesn't follow wrestling that knows who John Cena and Bret Hart was not on the level of hogan, Austin or Rock as far as draws go either. Cena is not the draw on that level no matter how much you try to claim it. HHH is known only because he was involved during the hot period of the late 90s but no not the draw of Austin, Hogan or anyone else.
Posted By: Guest#1065 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 02:18 PM
There is no household name in WWE right now.
If Brock goes back to the E, he might be it.
Posted By: Guest#4924 (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 03:06 PM
I'm digging the comparison between WWE and their writers and networks giving up on TV shows, Fox in particular. Though I'd argue that they're finally trying to develop the likes of Kofi, McIntyre, and Sheamus. Now, whether they should have been called up when they were is definitely debatable, but at least WWE seems to be giving them the time to grow, unlike the aborted runs with the likes of MVP and Mark Henry. Fuck network shows anyway. Aside from The Office my television diet consists soley of cable and premium channels.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 03:38 PM
To the people talking about Cena's raps, I think I read about Cena saying that the writers would tell him a summarised version of what to say and then he would put it into rap form.
Posted By: Kieran (Guest) on November 16, 2009 at 05:42 PM
"Independent" Contractors, Right?
He's Not Even A Wrestler Anymore, Part 257
Hogan!
Good Ol' JR
Dollhouse
