411’s Buy or Sell 12.18.09: Ring of Honor’s Final Battle Weekend Roundtable!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 12.18.2009

This week, the 411 Wrestling Staff gets ready for Ring of Honor’s Final Battle Weekend with a Special Roundtable as Samuel Berman battles Ari Berenstein and Michael Bauer in Buy or Sell!

Welcome everyone to Week 137 of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.

Questions are sent out on Monday Night.

BANNER!


(Special thanks to Jasper Gerretsen)

And for this week, we are throwing away the Buy or Sell format! That's right, I will be joining Ari and Sam in a Roundtable for this coming weekend's events! First, let's look at the lineups for this weekend in Virginia and New York City:

Friday December 18th in Manassas, Virginia:
* Jay & Mark Briscoe and Rocky Romero vs. The American Wolves & Alex Koslov with Shane Hagadorn
* Tyler Black vs. Roderick Strong
* Austin Aries & Kenny King vs. The Young Bucks
* Chris Hero vs. Colt Cabana
* Kenny Omega vs. Rhett Titus
* Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Bison Smith & Erick Stevens
* Also scheduled to appear are Sonjay Dutt, Grizzly Redwood and The Set


Saturday December 19th in New York City:
* ROH World Title Match: Austin Aries defends vs. Tyler Black
* ROH Tag Team Title Match: The American Wolves defend vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe
* Jack Evans & Rocky Romero vs. Teddy Hart & Alex Koslov
* Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. The Young Bucks
* Fight Without Honor: Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero
* Roderick Strong vs. Kenny King
* Necro Butcher & Delirious vs. Bison Smith & Erick Stevens
* Kenny Omega vs. Rhett Titus vs. Colt Cabana vs. Claudio Castagnoli

How much shakeup do you expect in the RoH/HDNet Pick 6 Contenders Standings over Final Battle Weekend?

ROH/HDNet Pick 6 Contenders Standings

1. Claudio Castagnoli
2. Kevin Steen
3. Chris Hero
4. Roderick Strong
5. Tyler Black
6. Kenny Omega

Ari Berenstein : Not very much if any. The majority of this weekend is actually being focused on major grudge and title bouts, not on the Pick 6. I do not see any changes happening from the few contender's rankings matches that are already scheduled.Roderick Strong needs to be kept as strong as possible as a potential title contender in 2010 whether its against Austin Aries or Tyler Black. King could get the upset and block Strong's path but I just don't see it happening-its much more realistic for them to have an excellent undercard match that continues to bring King along in the ring. Colt Cabana could pick up Chris Hero's slot and re-establish himself as a contender anywhere but in Chicago, and yet i think they're going in a different direction for Cabana given recent videowire footage. The other possible Pick 6 change could be Rhett Titus making it on the board with a win over Omega on Friday, but the sixth slot is the weakest of them all so even if he wins its not much of a shakeup at all. A last minute match could be made for either show with Pick 6 implications, but I think this weekend will be one of the most stable for the ranking series since it was established.

Samuel Berman : I suppose there will be some level of shakeup, as I'd have King beating Strong and I don't see Hero going undefeated on the weekend, but the Pick 6 seems to be in near-constant flux so I'm not sure that and developments would be more than the normal par for a weekend of shows. I'd guess that Claudio will retain his top ranking, however.

Michael Bauer : I definitly exepct some sort of shakeup going on, but it won't be as much as I would expect. First, Black beating Richards does nothing more than flip them around, which isn't a huge deal. I don't see Omega losing on Friday, but I can imagine Colt beats Hero to put himself at three and knock Omega out of the Top 6. Kenny King simply will not beat Roderick Strong and I hope the Fight Without Honor doesn't become a Pick Six match. But I look at the Fatal Fourway announced earlier this week as a golden opportunity to make some ripples. I don't see Rhett winning, but look out for Omega. If I'm right, he's out of the Pick 6, which Claudio and Colt in the Top 3. This also could be key, because if King does beat Strong, then this would just knock King right back out (or pending the match order, makes King vs. Strong NOT a Pick 6 match). So I expect the order to look like this at the end: Omega, Claudio, Steen, Colt, Hero, Black, with the winner of King/Strong being on the outside looking in.

Will the Fight Without Honor between Eddie Kingston and Chris Hero truly end their long running blood feud?

Ari Berenstein : Yes it will. While this will only be their second in-ring meeting of the feud, there isn't much further you can go with this feud, especially given this match is a Fight Without Honor, traditionally a feud-ender match for the promotion. I like that ROH gave us less matches in this feud and more of a build-up to each. That is the opposite of the Albright vs. Castagnoli feud, which had too many matches of average quality and in the end, none of those stood out as truly special. While the first Kingston-Hero match in New York wasn't as successful as it could have been due to a number of different factors, it was a match that was memorable and remains unique because it was the only one so far.This match not only is on the last show of the year, but it is on a major PPV presentation. That and the fact that it took so much "storyline" manuevering with Kingston, Hero and Cornette to set this match up means to me this will be the last of the matches between these two heated foes.

Samuel Berman : I'm not sure that anything will truly end the feud between Hero and Kingston. First of all, the feud has moved through at least five major companies at this point. Second, Kingston's sporadic appearances for ROH mean that should he become a full-time member of the roster, that the feud could easily be revisited. This bout should end the current run of matches between the two men, but probably won't mark the last time that the two lock horns in ROH competition. By the way, I'm hoping that this match lives up to the impossibly high standards set by the Loser Leaves Town match the pair had in CZW as well as the Last Man Standing match from the 2007 TPI.

Michael Bauer : You know, with how long this has gone on, I have to agree with Berman that this will never truly end. Ring of Honor is the biggest stage for this feud and it won't get much bigger than Final Battle. But this match needs to be better than what I saw at Glory by Honor. That is a definite. And judging by Sam's knowledge on their matches, a brawl like this might just be what the doctor ordered.

What one match will most likely end up in an "upset" this weekend, with the most unexpected result?

Samuel Berman : The closest thing to an upset that I'd pick is Kenny King getting the win over Roderick Strong, but other than that I see most of the weekend's matchups being pretty level playing fields. If Rhett Titus were to beat Kenny Omega, I suppose that would be an upset on the grand scale of the Independent scene, but not really all that much in ROH specifically.



Michael Bauer : I have to go with a weird choice here, but I can see an upset of The Young Bucks beating Aries and King on Friday Night. Normally, a champion wins his match before a defense, especially if his opponent is not involved. But for some reason, I see that trend breaking here and The Young Bucks building momentum going into their match with Steen-erico at Final Battle. Outside of that, I would be pretty shocked if Eddie Kingston defeated Chris Hero, but I wouldn't call it an upset.

Ari Berenstein : I'm not sure we're in for any upset specials as far as match results go although given all the rumors and fan speculation about the future of Davey Richards I suppose it would be a minor upset if The American Wolves retained the ROH World Tag Team Titles over The Briscoes. The real moment where you should expect the unexpected is whatever is going to happen with Kevin Steen after his match against The Young Bucks at Final Battle 2009. He is supposed to make some sort of major announcement. Will he retire due to his knee problems? Will he turn heel on Generico? Will it be something else? There is a lot of directions for this one to take, so I think fans need to pay close attention to that match and the post-match angle.



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With Davey Richards involved more and more projects outside of Ring of Honor, do you expect The Briscoe Brothers to reclaim the Ring of Honor Tag Titles?



Samuel Berman : I do, actually. The Briscoes are the safe bet in the ROH tag division, and with Richards looking to pursue other opportunities in 2010, I think ROH will begin to either put more emphasis on him as a singles competitor or de-emphasize him completely. The decision comes down to whether ROH wants to hitch itself to Davey's obviously rising star.

Michael Bauer : I guess I'll take the crazy answer here. No, I don't expect The Briscoes to win at Final Battle. Yes, it was a year ago that The Wolves took out the legs of Mark and sidelined him for months. But I can't remember a time when both titles looked like they were set to change hands. I also can't remember a time when Ring of Honor cared enough about what the rest of the Independent Wrestling World was doing. For example, The American Wolves have been tours in Japan, didn't stop them from putting the Tag straps on them in the first palce, knowing they could miss shows. Same for Danielson and Morishima when it came to the Ring of Honor World Title. So, I don't think Richards being involved in EVOLVE and Dragon Gate USA affects anything. Now, Richards getting big as a singles wrestler in Ring of Honor, that could have some impact. So could Edwards' overness if the NYC crowd can make him a face after the gutsy performance he had last time in the Manhattan Center.

Ari Berenstein : Yes, I expect The Briscoes to regain the ROH World Tag Team Titles, winning them for a sixth time, but not due to any speculation about Richards' future, rather because the title change makes sense for the storyline. The match is a year in the making, stemming back to The Wolves' attack on Mark Briscoe at last year's Final Battle event. The "perfect circle" booking method calls for the good guys to gain final retribution over the bad guys and in this case that means The Briscoes winning the tag belts against their enemies. The Briscoes are THE name in Ring of Honor's tag team division in much the same way that Bryan Danielson has been THE name for ROH's single division for many years. Them winning the ROH titles is almost their birthright at this point. However, as I stated in the previous item its also a distinct possibility that The Wolves retain the belts here and carry them in 2010.

Kevin Steen and El Generico have a series of Tag Matches this weekend. What will the results be and what will Steen's announcement be at Final Battle?

Michael Bauer : Ever since I heard that this would happen, my gut reaction said a Kevin Steen heel turn. His promos in the video wire lately and the news in the news wire about him just fuel my speculation. Let's face it, Steen as a heel would be amazing for Ring of Honor. While we have Davey and Austin already, the face side feels a lot more loaded with Tyler, Strong, Colt, and Omega. Steen turning heel and then taking time off I think is a better option than anything. I'm just not sure how in the world it gets done effectively.

Ari Berenstein : Steen's promo on the latest videowire mentioned that Generico wouldn't be too happy to learn that they would be wrestling Bison Smith and Erick Stevens on Friday night in Manassas, Virginia (I wouldn't be either considering the size of those guys). There seems to be little bits of foreshadowing as to some tension between the two, but surprisingly the hints are more about Generico being mad at Steen than the other way around. My best guess is that The Embassy team defeats Steenerico due to their strength and power advantage, with one of them pinnning Generico. Generico maybe pushes Steen after the match and walks away from him, but they pull it together and team up with little friction the next night against The Bucks. Matt & Nick Jackson take the fall against Steen and when Steen takes the mic and announced his retirement, Generico gets suprised because he didn't expect it. He is mad because Steen broke up the team without telling him, so he attacks him and lays him out. Thus we get a Generico heel turn, a temporary leave of absence through the beginning of the year for Steen to heal up injuries and come back in time to feud with Generico in the middle of the year.

Samuel Berman : The obvious thought would be that Steen will turn on Generico and announce that he's tired of "being weighed down" (or something similar). I'm not sure what other big announcement Steen could possibly have in mind, though I suppose it could be another title guarantee like the one we saw in 2008. If it ends up being more along those lines, look for another edition of Briscoes vs. Steen & Generico to be a highlight of early-2010 ROH cards.

Austin Aries vs. Tyler Black is one year in the making, as Aries and Black's turns both happened at last year's Final Battle. Will Tyler Black finally defeat Aries and win the Ring of Honor World Title?



Michael Bauer : Absolutly. I swore that Black would take it off of Lynn, but Aries ended up being the man to grab the gold. Now, Aries enters Finalt Battle as champion, something that he never did in his first title run, facing Black, who almost has to win it now, or there will never be another window for him. The only thing that I question is whether or not Ring of Honor will have two straight title changes in New York, after seeing only one of the first ten champions crowned in the biggest audience RoH has. Still, I can't see anything left for Aries to do as champion and it is time to give Tyler the strap now.

Ari Berenstein : I've called Black to win the title at Final Battle 2009 for months now and I will hold to that statement. Yes. Its time (some would say way past time) for Black to win the title. All criticisms aside of the booking of Black this year and recieving too many title shots and all that--ALL Black needs to do to get the fans on his side in this one is deliver some spectacular in-ring action and show the babyface fire that he's had in the past--the kind of galvanizing force that brought NYC to a craze cheering him on last year at Death Before Dishonor VI and just six months ago at Manhattan Mayhem III. I expect a fantastic main event match from both men, going all out not just because its the main event of the last show of the year but also because its crucial for them to deliver a lasting impression for those who are ordering the iPPV through GoFightLive. This is Black's best (and likely final) chance to shake the fan criticsm that comes from a pocket of detractors and convince not just the fans in NYC but those who are watching from the comfort of their homes that he is worthy of being the next top guy in ROH. I wish him the best in doing that.

Samuel Berman : I sure hope so, because if he doesn't, Black will undoubtedly be cast as another edition of Roderick Strong; that is, a guy who went from being a white-hot sure-thing to just another talented performer who couldn't win the big one. Remember how Strong was the odds-on favorite to upend Bryan Danielson in early-2006? Remember how Strong STILL has yet to hold ROH's top prize, despite something like a dozen shots at it? Black already has seven unsuccessful title shots to his credit. How many more can he really add to his resume before the fans move on to Kenny Omega or Davey Richards (assuming they haven't already).



Stay tuned for next week as we begin our two part Year End Spectacular on Buy or Sell!