Ask 411 Wrestling 01.06.10: Understanding Khali, Underselling Angle, and Undertaker's Length!
Posted by Mathew Sforcina on 01.06.2010
When did tag ropes come back into style? How did Mike McGuirk get her name? Was Steamboat screwed? Has anyone lasted a career without injury? And in the same company? Did Betamax get a wrestling video? All these, plus I definitely and conclusively prove which is the very worst Royal Rumble Number to draw!
Hello, and welcome to this, the first Ask 411 of the new decade! Although technically that's a lie, since there was no year zero and thus a decade is XXX1-XXX0.
Actually, even more technically, it's true, since a decade is really just a length of time, and thus new ones begin all the time. One just started now. And another. And another.
I sadly cannot fully comment on the Monday Night Wars 2K10!!!, since neither show has been shown down here, so I can't comment in any detail, suffice to say TNA seems to be 1 step forward, 11 steps back, 9 of them being Tara losing the title. Although on some level, that level of Crash TV booking does make sense, in the "Anything Can Happen On Nitro/Fans Tune In For Boobies and Blood in WWF" logic.
Anyway, in tribute to Hell Freezing Over on Raw and TNA's New Found Attitude, we're going to have a few questions sent in this week, since they follow on from last week's somewhat.
Backtalking
The Fink's Replacement:Brett suggested that the man replacing Fink during that time was Manny "Doc" Garcia, who at some point dressed up in medical garb to hand out t-shirts, although that was about all the info he had on him. So maybe him.
Triple Belt Holders: I had forgotten Kurt Angle's 4 Titles At The Same Time Angle, so I guess he's the current Non J-Crown Champ. Lance Storm's triple belt win was, as I understand it, the result of a bet between two people booking that Lance Storm couldn't get over, so someone gave him that push to prove he could get over.
The Match That Made Me Want To Be A Pro Wrestler: HHH V Cactus, MSG, Street Fight, WWF Title, Royal Rumble 2000.
Your Turn, Smart Guy…
Yes, the answer was Debra, and yes, she was a member of the Horsemen. They had an entourage, and the entourage was part of the group. Just like Dark Journey can say she was part of the Horsemen. But if you disagree… Well, you disagree with me.
Who am I? I appeared as part of the Monday Night Wars 2K10!!! this week, having debuted back in the 80's. I've appeared in AWA, WWF, WCW, ECW, Japan, and TNA. A superstar with a pennant for chokeslams and bulldogs at various points in their career, I've never won a World Title but held plenty of gold regardless. I once threw a title in the trash, I once threw a title away by turning on a partner, and I tend to throw lots of other things as well. Who am I, obviously?
Questions, Questions, Who's Got The Questions?
First up is one of the new ones, thanks to Casey.
What's the deal with Vader wearing the full mask in his match with Hanson? Did he wear that often? Other than that match, I've only ever seen him with the little mask he wore in WCW and WWF.
Well, that was part of a much larger mask system.
Vader would enter with this mask on, which looked quite fearsome and shot smoke. This was part of the original backstory of how Vader got his name and persona, Vader being a figure from Japanese Folklore how fought for his village for 72 hours straight. Which sounds silly for a character concept, but then Jushin "Thunder" Liger was based around an anime character, so why not?
The Mask was part of this double system, and made it to North America when he first debuted for WCW.
But once he stopped using the overmask and was no longer playing a huge samurai character, he went to his more familiar mask now, probably out of comfort, the lesser mask is less stuffy.
neverAcquiesce asks about an obvious dirty trick that Eric Bischoff didn't go for.
I had forgotten the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship was part of the J-Crown. Why didn't WCW ever stress the fact that Ultimo Dragon was so dominant that held the competitions belt. Yes, it wasn't a recognized title in the WWF until late '97, but it would've still been a feather in the cap for Bischoff and company. I know WCW took the cruiserweights for granted but this seems like a no-brainer. Then again, we're talking about WCW.
OK, I need to explain how the belt existed to explain why Bischoff didn't push it.
The WWF Light Heavyweight Title did not exist, in WWE History, until 1997. That title, that was part of the J-Crown, wasn't a WWF title, despite being called it. It was created by the Universal Wrestling Association, which was a Lucha company in Mexico with slight delusions of grandeur. Inside Mexico, the company was called Lucha Libre Internaciónal, and the UWA was their governing body, in a sort of fake NWA/WCW relationship.
What the company did have, however, was working agreements with New Japan Pro Wrestling, Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling and, importantly, the WWF. And as part of that arrangement, they had permission to create a WWF title, to be defended on their shows.
That's the thing, UWA had the right to use the belt, and you can argue that New Japan MAYBE had a claim. But thus saying WCW had a right to use it was really pushing it, 3 jumps is pushing.
So, yes, Bischoff could have said that Ultimo held a WWF title once. He would then get sued by WWF, and this would lead to WWF suing UWA and New Japan, and them suing each other, and Dragon getting tied up from using the J-Crown while the mess was sorted out. And for a man who wants to keep his working arrangements strong since it was helping him get all these kick ass matches on TV, he'd want to avoid such messiness.
Not that it wouldn't make a great line, just one that's far too messy.
J.R wants to get a song.
Hello and a Happy New Year to you. No multiple questions here, just one. The World Wrestling Federation used a theme, almost like a variation of Van Halen's "Right Now".
The song plays at the 2:21 mark. Now my question is if you can give a link or something so that I can download it and put it on a CD? If you can, it would be greatly appreciated, if not, thanks anyway and taking the time to read my question.
Sadly not. WWE's library of stock music either bought or written by Jim Johnston is huge, and pinpointing any song that's not an actual theme song is pretty much impossible. I mean, just look at how many song's he's legally written!
That said, I know that some smart people out there can isolate a song to some degree. No idea how to contact them though, so unless one of them's reading…
And now onto the older stuff!
Joe is up first, relatively speaking.
Mathew,
Great column. Was hoping you could go a little into detail about the WWF's All-Star Wrestling. This seems to be the "forgotten" show of the early to mid-80's. Everyone remembers Championship Wrestling (the "A" show), but there doesn't seem to be much information out there regarding All-Star Wrestling. (Besides whatever you read on Wikipedia, which isn't much help.)
I believe it was another syndicated show, but I'm having a hard time remembering anything from it, unlike Championship Wrestling. And there are sources out there that say ASW was aired on Saturdays, same day as Champ. Wrestling, which is a little weird. If ASW was syndicated in the US, were both shows aired on Saturday? If not, did people who didn't get Champ. Wrestling get ASW?
Thanks and keep up the good work.
Well, the show began as a WWWF show, so it was quite old, in terms of when it first started airing, 1974 it began airing. Their taping schedual was sproatic at best, they'd only record the show in Hamburg maybe 3-6 times a year, according to The History of WWE site. At any one taping, however, they'd do anything up to 20 matches, so they only had to record every while and they had enough matches for a few months.
If you want to see what the show was like, at least one match from the show has made a DVD, Hulk Still Rules has Hulk winning a handicap match while he was a heel under Blassie from the show.
Suffice to say, it's safe to say that heading back to the same building every show eventually outlived it's usefulness, and thus they changed the show to allow them to tape wherever they wanted.
As for days of it airing, Championship was the A show, and while some markets might only have the A show and lose the B, there was never a market that had B and not A. Hence, if there were markets where they showed on the same day, it was probably at different times. All Star at 1, Championship at 4 or some such.
But anyone out there remember seeing All-Star?
John asks about tag ropes.
I've watched plenty of Tag matches, one of my favorites to remember being when Austin, Undertaker and Dude Love faced The Hart Foundation in a Flag match, where Austin went half the match solo because Dude took so long arriving at least Kayfabe anyway. I've noticed the ropes on the pipe that holds the turnbuckle to the corner post but I don't remember in those early year matches, when did WWE start using the small string/rope for partners to hold onto during the match while they waited?
Ah, the humble tag ropes. The tag ropes, which are there theoretically as the rope you must hold onto to be a legal tag but are really there to choke people out with, have come in and out of vogue in the WWF for years. It was an old school idea that got lost during Attitude, and then came back only recently when Los Guerreros needed more ways to cheat and be loved.
Suffice to say that it's hard to pinpoint the moment when they stopped using them, more that you can say that they died out in Attitude and came back with Eddie and Chavo.
Victor may already have been satisfied.
I remember that right before Ravishing Rick Rude retired as an active wrestler, he was supposed to fight Vader at Slamboree 94. Both guys were heels, and heel vs. heel matches were rare back then. Were there any plans to turn one of them face? I can't really see Rude as the face, but it seemed as if Vader was still in the middle of his "unstoppable monster" phase and wouldn't have been a logical choice to turn to the good side. Or was the match just a one-off by a company deciding to try something new?
Thanks! I love the column.
I covered this a while back, albeit briefly, since I had to go and misread his other questions. But yes, WCW seemed intent on putting this out there as Heel V Heel, although I'd wager that the match would probably have been booked with Vader playing face, to see if A) he could and B) if Rude could work against a bigger, stronger face opponent and make it work, to set him up for Hogan. But either way, I wouldn't see the match leading to a permanent turn, just a one off.
Philippe has some questions.
Hey! Still reading your column every week! It's the best! I've come up with a few more questions:
1. Has any wrestler never been injured in their entire wrestling career?
No. It is physically impossible to have a career as a pro wrestler and not get some injuries, sore backs, bruises, cuts, wrestling takes it's toll even if you do it perfectly, you'll get hurt. You just hope it's not major.
As for avoiding major injuries… I can't think of anyone who isn't really young. Even a guy like Tito Santana, who is renowned for being injury free, he messed his knee up a couple times. Flair got an injured arm, so even if you discount the plane crash, he's not injury free.
But yeah, outside of really young guys, and/or obscure guys that 99.99% of us have never heard of, no wrestler has ever avoided moderate injury for their entire career.
2. Which wrestlers have only worked for one major company? For example I think John Cena has only ever worked for the WWE. The Rock too I think.
Yeah, Cena and Rock have worked for just one major company, emphasis on the word major. I'm sure I'm going to forget people, but, off the top of my head, JBL, Matt Hardy, Trish Stratus, Kane, Brock Lesnar, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista… Miz… I mean, after this point it's all current guys. I know I will get yelled at below…
Will Helm has some questions (as does Jake, apparently, I have their names listed together…
Mathew:
Keep on doing what you're doing, because you're doing it well. And now I bet you all have LL Cool J stuck in your heads. (I'm talking to the audience, which is why I switched to plural.) Anyway, here's some questions for future perusal, mostly having to do with famous firsts:
1) What was the first US wrestling videotape released commercially and officially -- i.e. through the WWWF, WWF, NWA, etc., rather than a bootleg or fan-cam? In addition, what wrestling videotapes were released on Betamax, if any?
Well, the very first WWF home video I can find record of was the Coliseum Home Video #001, "Wrestling's Bloopers, Bleeps, & Bodyslams", which came out in 1985. NWA, the earliest I found was 1987.
Given the time frames, I would have to say that it's pretty unlikely any of them ever made it to Betamax. By the time 1985 came around, Betamax was practically dead in the water, and it just would not be cost effective to make them on Betamax as well.
2) Who first came up with the Russo Work-Shoot Axiom "Everything you see is a work, except what you're seeing now, which is real" and when was it postulated?
As well, here's a question about mid-/late-'80s WWF mid-carders:
3) Were there any heel "JTTS" wrestlers in the Hogan era? I seem to remember a lot of "JTTS" faces -- Koko B. Ware as the most significant -- who would build up Hogan's next monster opponent, and, as well, a few heel jobbers to build up IC division faces, but I can't remember any higher level heels who would get a couple wins and then lose big build-up matches.
Keep on keepin' on.
Well, no, because they weren't needed. A face near the top of the card in the Hogan era would either be chasing the IC title or teaming with Hogan, so they didn't really need heel JTTS, since they tended to feud with the IC champ or whoever was feuding with Hogan, so at no point did they need a JTTS to win over. I guess you could argue that any heel who had had his run with Hogan could qualify, but really the role wasn't required, so no-one fits the description.
This is from 2005, so you may have seen it. If not, this is some of the finest commentary ever recorded for some of the worst wrestling you'll ever see.
Someone hire this announcer now!
Next up, possibly riding a tricycle, is Damien.
2 Questions for you:
1. It's clear that the Great Khali doesn't speak great if any English. With that being said, how does he and other wrestlers like him communicate in the ring with their opponents?
Well, firstly he has to speak some, given his movie roles. But yeah, let's assume for the minute that he's not able to hold up any witty banter in English.
That said, Wrestling does have it's own language that is fairly universal. I've seen Japanese wrestlers plan out a match with Australians, neither speaking a common language, still be able to work out a match and work it fine. A clothesline is a clothesline anywhere in the world. And Khali, given that he doesn't do anything complicated, doesn't have that much to think about. The level of English he has is enough to work matches. I mean, in one Rumble, he understood HBK telling him to ‘Work the hard camera', so he's clearly not an idiot.
2. Are wrestlers who barley wrestler obligated to appear at all shows wither it's a house show or live event, or do they get called when being used at a show? (Festus, Slam Master J, Charlie Hass)
Well, Festus is different now, but the point still stands. There are two camps here.
Occasionally, WWE will pay someone and keep him at home. Stevie Richards got paid to stay at home for several months, and Charlie Haas, who recently got a raise, is being paid to stay at home. When that's set in, WWE has to call him up to get him to turn up.
However, most of the time, lower card guys are expected to turn up to every event they are scheduled to. Just because they don't wrestle, doesn't mean they aren't doing stuff. Running drills, testing aspiring wrestlers, trying out new moves, the lower card guys can always find something to do or help out with. Certainly punctual attendance is seen as a plus. Just look at Sheamus!
Tom Jones asks after a woman. Typical.
Hey what ever became of Mike Mcgurk (sp)? I grew up with her and the Fink as annoucers. Could she ever make the hall of fame? Would Heenan induct her...she always seemed to be the butt of his commentary. I know this last part might sound like an opinion question but...what parents would name their daughter MIKE?
Mike McGuirk left the WWF in 1993, supposedly, according to Penthouse magazine, because she refused Vince McMahon's sexual advances. She's never stated this, and what's probably more likely is that after Sherri Martel got fired, given that the two of them travelled together, she chose to leave. She's made the occasional appearance in the ring since then, including a 07 WWE House Show where she introduced a Tag Title Match.
I'm not sure she's a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame, but she's a good a pick for a filler entry as any. They can play up the path she blazed for female announcers and such, although with that angle, you kinda need a female announcer about to induct her and to claim she's an inspiration. So maybe after they find another female announcer, they'll induct her.
I doubt Bobby will, given that Bobby… He's not great, alas.
Mike did actually cover her name in one of her goes as a commentator. Her father was Leroy McGuirk, a promoter in the Tri-State area. And when she was born, Leroy so wanted a boy that he named his new baby boy Mike without checking the sex (or mistaking it, it's been a while since I heard the story). Thus, she was stuck with Mike. At least it's memorable.
One more question, from Stephan.
I recently watched a video that had Ricky Steamboat vs The Honky Tonk Man. The match is where Honky defeats Steamboat for the Intercontinental Championship. At the end of the match, It seems as if Steamboat gets the roll up and gets a 1 count on HTM, the HTM reverses it and the ref counts 2 and 3, thus giving HTM the win and the title. I know that Steamboat had been slated for a significant title run, and then requested time off for the birth of his son which sort of angered Vince. When Steamboat got up, it seemed as if he was surprised at the finish. Question: Was there any "screw jobs" involved with this, or did Steamboat know he was going to lose the title?
Any excuse to post a video…
But no, there was no Screwjob as such, beyond the kayfabe one. Steamboat was just selling the shock of losing the title, to the Honky Tonk Man, on such a wonky result, they were all caught up in the ropes, he only was pinned for 2, etc. He was just selling well, there was no screwjob. Screwjob victims either get really angry or they laugh out of embarrassment/anger.
Different question, same topic. Is it true that Butch Reed was supposed to be in this match? If so, why did he not show up for the event, and how did they choose HTM to take his place?
This is another bit of kayfabe, although a broken one. The idea that Butch Reed was his scheduled opponent may be correct, but the idea that he didn't turn up is silly in that after Honky wins it, he celebrates backstage, and there, with him, is Butch Reed.
But the idea was to give Steamboat an excuse of sorts. He wasn't prepared for Honky, and Honky then stole it. As for why they gave it to Honky, the current theory is that he was meant to be a stopgap, a quick reign to get the belt off Steamboat and onto Jake Roberts, based on their feud, Roberts being considered the next best thing to Steamboat. But with his injuries due to the guitar shot, they chose not to give it to him, and Honky ended up having his reign. So the story goes.
My Damm Opinion
Jason has a question I'll admit I've put off for a while.
I registered on 411 just so I could ask you this......
This may have been asked before, but....I was looking back on the 100th episode of WCW Monday Nitro (8/4/97). Could that have been the BEST Monday night wrestling show ever? (it featured a Ted Dibiase "turn", a Sting contract offer, DDP vs Flair, AND a Hogan vs Luger title match. AND the title changed hands.) It also featured virtually every WCW wrestler that was hot at the time. (Savage, Giant, Hall and Nash, The Steiners, plus a Benoit vs Sixx match.) Secondary question: Since it was the last Nitro before "Road Wild '97" - was it the best "go home" Monday night show before a PPV?
I kept putting this off because I wanted to make some effort into answering it. But really, it keeps coming back to the bane of the reviewer: Personal Taste.
You can say that any certain episode of a show is the best, but when you get right down to it, that's just the episode you like best. Even if a lot of people agree with you, it's still just personal opinion.
So I'll let you guys discuss it, but suffice to say, my pick for best Monday Show is probably either the Raw that saw HHH tear his quad and lose the tag belts, or if you think an episode can't feature Benoit and be the best ever, The Atlanta Raw that saw ECW reform. Even with the crappy ending.
John finishes us off this week.
I have a two questions for this segment of "Ask 411 Wrestling".
1. Do you think that it is counter-productive to present Mike Knox as an "intelligent masochist" who has an innate understanding of the human anatomy and medical oddities, but at the same time treat him as a jobber so other wrestlers can have that "I beat a big guy" claim? Personally, I think Knox should be billed as a threat, and the crowd's apathy towards him is because he's expected to lose, no matter the opponent.
Well, yes and no. Yes, it's silly to hope that he'll be over despite losing to everyone and their mother, and if WWE honestly think he's over, then they're high. That said, at least he has some sort of gimmick, which is better than most jobbers. Plus, if they ever do wanna push him again, all they have to do is give him a new move, like a nerve pinch that makes people's legs stop working or something, and it's logical as to why he's now winning matches (he came up with this new move!). It's never counter-productive to give a guy a character, it's just that sometimes you wonder why they bother.
2. Also, with the Royal Rumble coming up, and this is from a kayfabe standpoint, but what would consider to be the best and worst numbers for a guy to enter from? I've done some research, and the 3rd entrant has been the first guy eliminated 11 times, so I consider that to be the worst number, but I want to know what you think should be considered the best and worst entry numbers.
Well, let's treat this with some fuzzy scientific method.
Which Rumble number is the worst? Well, first of all, you have to remove any number that saw someone win from it. If someone has won from it, it can't be the worst, clearly.
4 6 7 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 26
So these are the numbers from which no-one has won. Well, next we remove anyone who was the Iron Man of the match, or had the Most Eliminations in a year. If they made one of those records, then it can't be worst.
9 11 12 14 16 17 20 26
Well, let's look at these in turn, comparing who entered under that number, eliminations, and time spent in ring. Then we can analyse.
9 Danny Davis, 0, 17:51. Shawn Michaels, 1, 14:30. Bad News Brown, 1, 6:04. Jake Roberts, 1, 12:58. The Texas Tornado, 0, 9:20. Genichiro Tenryu, 0, 13:17. Billy Gunn, 0, 0:14. Kwang, 1, 4:01. Yokozuna, 3, 19:14. Pierroth, 0, 10:32. Owen Hart, 1, 12:00. Tiger Ali Singh, 0, 4:02. The Big Boss Man, 3, 22:47. Perry Saturn, 0, 5:02. Matt Hardy, 0, 4:16. Bill DeMott, 0, 2:13. Matt Morgan, 1, 12:14. Shelton Benjamin, 1, 14:35. Kane, 1, 3:33. Shelton Benjamin, 1, 22:22. Hornswoggle, 1, 26:57. JTG, 0, 11:59.
11 Don Muraco, 3, 16:16. The Honky Tonk Man, 0, 4:12. Andre The Giant, 2, 10:16. Tito Santana, 0, 30:23. Greg Valentine, 0, 4:12. Skinner, 3:05. Randy Savage, 1, 4:38. Owen Hart, 0, 0:03. Takao Omori, 0, 2:48. Mil Mascaras, 3, 7:28. D'Lo Brown, 1, 32:21. Mabel, 5, 1:26. The British Bulldog, 1, 15:22. Grand Master Sexay, 0, 1:03. Maven, 1, 3:34. B-2, 0, 0:24. Booker T, 1, 9:11. Chris Jericho, 2, 28:22. Carlito, 2, 38:29. CM Punk, 1, 27:16. Jamie Noble, 0, 0:28. Chris Jericho, 1, 37:17.
12 Nikolai Volkoff, 1, 11:40. Tito Santana, 1, 12:47. The Red Rooster, 0, 1:58. The Undertaker, 3, 14:16. Nikolai Volkoff, 0, 1:03. Koko B. Ware, 0, 8:31. Jeff Jarrett, 0, 1:19. Timothy Well, 0, 0:23. Savio Vega, 1, 12:28. Hunter Hearst Helmsley, 0, 6:42. Kurrgan, 2, 3:38. The Road Dogg, 3, 10:41. Gangrel, 1, 23:19. The Honky Tonk Man, 0, 1:16. Scotty 2 Hotty, 0, 2:36. Rob Van Dam, 2, 32:56. Kane, 0, 1:30. Luther Reigns, 1, 7:13. Chris Benoit, 2, 30:31. King Booker, 1, 09:23. CM Punk, 0, 13:50. Mike Knox, 0, 32:42.
14 Ron Bass, 2, 10:14. Marty Jannetty, 1, 7:52. Haku, 2, 22:31. Davey Boy Smith, 3, 36:43. Hercules, 1, 0:56. The Bezerker, 1, 5:21. Doink The Clown, 0, 1:48. Jacob Blu, 0, 0:17. Doug Gilbert, 0, 2:59. Goldust, 1, 5:33. Ken Shamrock, 1, 9:15. Kurrgan, 0, 6:54. Bob Backlund, 1, 2:00. The Goodfather, 0, 0:14. Diamond Dallas Page, 1, 5:15. Eddie Guerrero, 0, 16:29. Rikishi, 1, 3:48. Orlando Jordon, 0, 3:36. Joey Mercury, 1, 29:14. Jeff Hardy, 0, 3:38. Umaga, 1, 26:05. Finlay, 0, 29:59.
16 Hillbilly Jim, 1, 5:55. Arn Anderson, 2, 10:00. Akeem, 0, 2:31. Hawk, 2, 6:37. Jake Roberts, 0, 10:55. Terry Taylor, 0, 0:24. Mabel, 1, 9:57. Mo, 0, 0:03. Samoan Sway Team #2, 0, 0:24. Marc Mero, 0, 3:53. Mankind, 1, 2:40. Goldust, 0, 4:02. Crash Holly, 0, 14:54. Bradshaw, 0, 17:40. The Godfather, 0, 2:48. Rosey, 0, 10:16. A-Train, 0, 1:44. Charlie Haas, 0, 6:20. Johnny Nitro, 2, 25:45. Randy Orton, 2, 27:14. The Miz, 0, 13:07. The Undertaker, 3, 32:29.
17 Dino Bravo, 2, 8:12. Tully Blanchard, 1, 8:02. Jimmy Snuka, 2, 17:03. Shane Douglas, 0, 26:23. Jim Duggan, 1, 20:45. Damien Demento, 0, 12:27. Sparky Plugg, 3, 21:33. Mabel, 1, 1:58. Owen Hart, 0, 20:43. Latin Lover, 0, 1:47. The Artist Formerly Known As Goldust, 2, 26:04. The Godfather, 0, 1:40. Chyna, 1, 0:37. Albert, 0, 15:53. Albert, 0, 0:48. Test, 1, 18:45. Shelton Benjamin, 0, 0:37. Rene Dupree, 0, 11:32. Trevor Murdoch, 0, 13:41. Chris Benoit, 3, 17:52. Shelton Benjamin, 0, 0:18. Goldust, 0, 1:11.
20 Junkyard Dog, 0, 2:08. Koko B. Ware, 0, 1:08. Jim Neidhart, 1, 8:42. Crush, 18:34. The Undertaker, 1, 13:51. Jerry Sags, 0, 21:50. Greg Valentine, 1, 20:39. The Mantaur, 0, 9:33. Tatanka, 1, 4:09. Jesse James, 0, 0:46. Ahmed Johnson, 0, 3:18. Billy Gunn, 0, 7:05. Al Snow, 1, 17:17. Val Venis, 0, 10:22. Val Venis, 0, 2:58. Rikishi, 0, 14:10. Rico, 0, 1:06. Kurt Angle, 1, 0:37. Rob Van Dam, 3, 30:52. Johnny Nitro, 1, 6:18. Kane, 3, 17:58. Shelton Benjamin, 0, 4:17.
26 N/A. The Barbarian, 2, 11:15. Shawn Michaels, 0, 0:12. Jim Neidhart, 0, 11:11. Hulk Hogan, 4, 11:29. Rick Martel, 0, 11:23. Rick Martel, 1, 11:22., Steven Dunn, 0, 4:29. Fatu, 1, 7:07. Mankind, 2, 12:20. Savio Vega, 0, 9:29. Mark Henry, 0, 7:57. The Big Show, 4, 11:12. Scotty 2 Hotty, 0, 0:46. Kurt Angle, 2, 16:09. Maven, 0, 8:19. Charlie Haas, 0, 6:53. Snitsky, 1, 3:38. Chris Masters, 1, 7:01. MVP, 0, 7:31. Chavo Guerrero, 1, 7:33. The Brian Kendrick, 1, 0:15.
So, firstly we rank by Total Eliminations, and eliminate based on that...
916 1124 1218 1417 1614 1717 2013 2620
So it's clearly not 11 or 26, 20's the cut off point. Next, we eliminate via total World Champion entries…
94 128 145 164 172 204
So, not 12 or 14. So, let's compare their best efforts, in terms of elimination and time in ring.
Since iMPACT is re-airing its' live three show this Thursday, when it does air its' next new episode, it will be NEXT Thursday, what do you think that rating will be?
1.5 like Monday? 1.0 like usual? Higher? Lower?
Posted By: Question (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:02 PM
am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?
Posted By: just in case (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:03 PM
i think with advertising on raw, impact can pull a 2 rather easily next week. And you are Scott Hall.
Posted By: jason (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:27 PM
am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?
Posted By: just in case (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:03 PM
Yes.
Posted By: Captian Sassypants (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:34 PM
australians speak english
Posted By: john (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Also, while not a full on "major company," Matt Hardy DID work for ROH. And Edge appeared in WCW at least once as Damon Stryker when he was starting out.
Posted By: Jason (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:41 PM
...and Brock Lesnar was New Japan champ. Considering New Japan is the #2 promotion in the world, I'd call it major too.
Posted By: Jason (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:42 PM
As far as injury free wrestlers go, I recall Lance Storm saying on his website that he has gone his entire career without a major injury (one requiring surgery).
Not sure if you'd include that in your guidelines, but I thought I'd pass it along.
(Looked it up... he talks about it in his May 16, 2007 article)
Posted By: MKick (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:53 PM
The first wrestling videotape was a Pro Wrestling Illustrated tape called "Lords of the Ring". It came out in April of 1985.
I only saw it once and I don't remember any complete matches on it, just clips from the different territories at the time. It was the first time I saw the footage of Randy Savage piledriving Ricky Morton on a table.
Posted By: MG (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:02 AM
alot of the young guys in the WWE started elsewhere, or had stints with other companies. 'Major' is the operative word though. i'm fairly sure JBL was in the NWA somewhere early in his Career. Matt Hardy was featured in ROH after the fallout from edge-lita-matt. Lesnar was infamously the IWGP champion his first match with NJPW after he left the WWE.
Posted By: Guest#3255 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:03 AM
Hey yo...
Say hello to the Bad Guy, because you are Scott Hall...
And let's be honest, who the fuck didn't mark out when he finally said "Hey Yo" with Hogan and Waltman in the ring?
Posted By: Guest#5878 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:17 AM
WWF videos were released on Betamax. I have a WWF Magazine from 1989 advertising the Summerslam '89 videocassette and it mentions both VHS and Beta being available.
Posted By: Adam Nedeff1 (Registered) on January 06, 2010 at 12:21 AM
The answer is Scott Hall
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:23 AM
I dont think The Rock or Jericho had a major injury. Could be wrong.
Posted By: NICK (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:24 AM
You're Scott Hall.
Posted By: Guest#2449 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:30 AM
You are Scott Hall.
Posted By: DJ (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:32 AM
Heel JTTS - Iron Mike Sharp, Playboy Buddy Rose.
Posted By: worthythorn (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:40 AM
I was with you on the Rumble math up to total eliminations but then you just got plain weird. Most World Champions to enter at a number? I'm not sure how that has any real basis on what someone has actually accomplished in the Rumble match itself.
---
am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?
Posted By: just in case (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:03 PM
God I hope so. It doesn't matter if you're mad at him for leaving the business or whatever beef you may have. Anyone with even a remote amount of objectivity and common sense knows that The Rock is one of the most deserving wrestlers of all time that hasn't yet been inducted.
I truly hope you only said that to get a rise out of people because your opinion is quite ignorant and flat out dumb.
Posted By: Ron Mexico (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:48 AM
Edge worked for WcW.
Posted By: Here ya go. (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:49 AM
Tiger Chung Le was a heel JTTS from Hogan's era.
Posted By: No (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 01:09 AM
I dont think The Rock or Jericho had a major injury. Could be wrong.
Posted By: NICK (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 01:18 AM
you are jeff jarrette !
Posted By: Guest#3239 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 01:20 AM
- dude love was there from jump, undertaker took long
- although tna is a major promotion, i think its worth mentioning that sting was never in wwf/e
- the tom jones joke was botched
- i got lost after the iron man numbers too
- when was scott hall in ecw? clip?
- what is jtts? why not clarify in the answer anyway?
Posted By: raws1st15minuteswasnuts!!!!!!! (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:24 AM
You are Scott Hall
Interesting fact: Googling Manny "Doc" Garcia comes up with this and last weeks edition of Ask 411
Posted By: Jeremy from Palmdale (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:29 AM
You are Kanyon
Posted By: Who Betta Than Kanyon? (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:29 AM
My father was foolish enough to by a betamax back in the day. The first Pro Wrestling tape released by the NWA was the Great American Bash 1986. I owned the Bash, Starrcade 86, Crockett Cup 87, Bash 87, and Starrcade 87 all on Beta.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:40 AM
I am pretty sure one of the last questions was about the best 'go home' Monday night shows, meaning the one right before a PPV.
You listed HHH tearing his quad, the night after a PPV, and the Atlanta ECW reunion show, which was 2 weeks before a PPV.....
Posted By: Yeah... (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:42 AM
I dont think The Rock or Jericho had a major injury. Could be wrong.
Rock had a major injury (torn pec or bicep, I think) in the spring of '97 or so that kept him out till the fall, when he returned by turning heel and joining the NoD.
Jericho got the "Lionheart" nickname in SMW when he broke his arm in a match and got all bloodied and still fought on.
Posted By: zappafrank (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 03:02 AM
"Lords Of The Ring" and "The Great American Bash 1985" were both NWA releases available on Beta. The former was mainly clips of a range of wrestling territories under the NWA wing, hosted by Bill Apter. the latter was most of the 1985 Bash from Charlotte Stadium, where Ric Flair beat Nikita Koloff in the main event.
A series of videos called "Rising Sun Wrestling" were released in the mid 80s, also available on Beta, featuring matches from New Japan Pro Wrestling.
Posted By: APinOz (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 06:58 AM
I remember ALL-Star Wrestling....remember watching it back in the late 80s (88-89) time frame
Posted By: DonnieD27 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:32 AM
You're Scott Hall. Threw the TV title in the trash, threw away the Tag belts by disbanding the Outsiders, and throws his toothpick constantly.
...and I still say his '02 TNA run was his best run since '96 in terms of ringwork.
Posted By: AndrewCrow (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:42 AM
Another heel Jobber-to-the-Stars from Hogan's era would be Jimmy Jack Funk. Sika to some extent as well.
Posted By: Devin (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:53 AM
In KAYFABE terms, the worst number in the Rumble is #2.
That way, you have to outlast everybody to win, and if by some miracle you manage it, you still don't get the glory of going coast to coast.
And before you say 'But ReyRey and Vinnie Mac won from #2', from a KAYFABE perspective, you cannot tell me the characters were saying, well I got number 2 which sucks, but at least I dont have number 9!!!
Posted By: Quimby (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 08:25 AM
There was no year 1 either or 2... Historians went back and labeled the years. The first decade was only 9 years long. A decade is 0-9. Unless you think 1990 was part of the 80s.
Posted By: Guest#1686 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 09:27 AM
'And let's be honest, who the fuck didn't mark out when he finally said "Hey Yo" with Hogan and Waltman in the ring?'
I didnt. I was more sad that they would let Hall on tv looking that bad still. At least he wont be wrestling... oh wait:(
Posted By: Guest#7796 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 09:50 AM
PWI put out Lords of the RIng in 1984-85, which it claimed to be the first ever wrestling video. It featured clipped versions of the Flair-Kerry Von Erich title switches at POC and in Japan, plus some Starrcade 83 stuff and AWA footage (Road Warriors - Fabulous Ones, I think). It may have been a Pro Wrestling USA effort. PWI also released the 1985 Great American Bash in a clipped 60 minute form. These tapes were advertised in all of the Apter mags through 1988. The first JCP tape advertised during its programming was GAB 86. The AWA put out the first Superclash on video as well. The WWF started with Wrestlemania I in 1985, which I did see on Beta in a dollar bin in the late 80s.
Posted By: W.S. Thomason (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:13 AM
Are you Scott Hall?
Posted By: Jaime (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:23 AM
most of the old coliseum videos were released on beta and vhs "my family still had a few of them" I also know that the nwa released a few due to the fact that we have the Crokett cup 86 on beta.
Coliseum videos on beta we have
Bloopers, bleepsn and bodyslams
Hulkamania 1
Hulkamania 2
Hart Foundation
British Bulldogs
Macho Man Randy Savage and Elizabeth
IC Title
Yep, I know I'm a nerd for hanging onto the old betas
Posted By: Joe (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:38 AM
zappafrank, Jericho had the "Lionheart" nickname long before then. His ring name during his time working in Mexico (which preceded SMW by several years) was "Corazón de León", which can be translated as "Heart of a Lion".
Posted By: Texas Kelly (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:49 AM
Hey Matt, on Royal Rumble numbers.
I really appreciate the way you analyzed it. I'm a weirdo like that too.
However, I would have done it by the time spent in the ring at each number, eliminating the times for the people who won. So, whichever number has the shortest time (or actually time in the ring/total time of match ratio) would be what I consider the worst number.
I actually have a RR spreadsheet with this info on it, but I haven't updated in a couple of years.
Like I said - weirdo.
Posted By: Mitch Michaels (Registered) on January 06, 2010 at 10:50 AM
I know the tag ropes weren't around when I started watching in late '95 cos when I would see them on old Coliseum tapes I dug em and wished they'd be brought back. It seems they just magically reappeared sometime in 2002. I don't remember when exactly but I do remember getting unreasonably excited.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:56 AM
You make a good case for number 9 being the worst number in the Rumble, but I think you could also make a strong case for numbers 16 and 20.
Based on our math here, 14 people have come in at number 16 and gotten NO ELIMINATIONS, while the total number of eliminations for all number 16s is only 14.
For those who entered at 20, 12 people have had NO ELIMINATIONS and the total number of eliminations is only 13.
Hmmm...looks like all the lazy workers get number 20. :)
Posted By: CourtesyFlush (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:57 AM
The only major injury Jericho has had was his knee injury in 98, which only kept him out I believe 4 months, and he hasn't been injured at all his entire WWE run (sans HBK knocking his tooth out with a ladder), so there's your closest bet for wrestling's indestructible man award.
The Rock also had a knee injury and several "bitch tit" surgeries (hence why he wore a shirt for most of his matches in late 98, early 99), but he wrestled for under a decade, so he's not really a good barometer for this list.
Posted By: Ramsey (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:08 AM
First off, Mathew Sforcina great job on the research for the Royal Rumble that had to take up some time.
I love the clip of the announcer, so many bigname drops during it when certain moves were used, so much excitment even though that was a terrible perfomance by the wrestlers. How on earth did he seem so excited and laugh all the way through the match!!!
Posted By: Dan (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:27 AM
12:00 p.m. on the USA networks on Sundays. How do you people not remember this? How the hell did you people get your Duke of Dorchester or Bad News Brown fix?
Posted By: nbrfwhoooo (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:44 AM
On the Starrcade DVD, Cornette says Starrcade 1986 was the first NWA home video release.
The best go home Monday Night show has to be before WrestleMania XV when Austin gave Rocky & Vince the beer bath and he beat the Big Show one-on-one in the main event.
Posted By: ODog (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:47 AM
"am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?"
Your probably not the only one, I'm sure Bill Watts feels the same way
Posted By: FredHampton (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:47 AM
When did Scott Hall work for ecw?
Posted By: Common Sense (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:49 AM
Matt Hardy worked for RoH while conning a lot of people into believing the whole him/lita/edge thing was "real"
Posted By: Guest#1221 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:04 PM
A good article overall but a few things...
- Mike McGuirk and Rita Chatterton before her both accused Vince of making unwanted sexual advances according to people who know/knew them not just Penthouse.
- Mike is short for Michelle.
- Ringmasters: the Great American Bash 85 and Lords of the Ring were both available for purchase at the back of PWI and then in stores prior to the first WWF release I believe. I'm pretty sure the AWA and Memphis video series were too.
Posted By: RDR (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:20 PM
jericho has never been injured
Posted By: hercules Strongs (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:24 PM
1.) Another commenter beat me to it, but the first NWA released VHS video was The Great American Bash 1986. I actually had every NWA tape until 1990.
2.) You are Scott Hall.
3.) I love the column, but saying that any valet was a "member" of the Four Horsemen is just terrible. The only manager who should be considered a member is JJ Dillon, period.
Posted By: SeatsPro (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:48 PM
I totally pictured you at your house doing that longass equation about the Royal Rumble numbers and I totally have sympathy for you. You could have just said 9 before doing all the work and people would have been satisfied.
Posted By: Matt Dawson (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:56 PM
I would love it if this year someone like Matt Striker enters the rumble, does a number draw, gets #9 and trys to trade it for anyone else's number just because he "did the research" and it is the most unluckiest number
Posted By: Viper Fontaine (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 12:59 PM
Kane worked in the AWA as the Christmas Creature. Also, I can't remember Chris Jericho ever sustaining a major injury.
Posted By: Cun\' (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 01:36 PM
I saw someone else point it out, but I'd have to consider Iron Mike Sharpe as the heel JTTS - except he was the jobber to those not going for World Title, but usually the IC title, or he'd pair up with someone against a face tage team.
Rene Goulet was another one who could be JTTS heel.
And the answer was Scott Hall. And by throwing other things, could it be throwing cocktails back, or throwing up afterwards?
Posted By: SpankyHamm (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 01:52 PM
Question:
This stems from a video included in the recent top ten Bret Hart matches list. At the end of his Summerslam '91 match you can plainly see Mr. Perfect frantically shaking his head no at the ref as the submission was called. Was the match running long, or was there something more to it? Second, when Bret ripped off Perfect's singlet just after that, was it planned? It just seemed needlessly malicious to do that to my favorite wrestler. That night began my hatred of all things Bret, which in hindsight made it much more fun to watch him.
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on January 06, 2010 at 01:59 PM
am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?
Posted By: just in case (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:03 PM
This has to be the same guy who posts this every so often to get a reaction. No one is that dumb.
Posted By: Deathpool (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:00 PM
From what I remember, one of the best Monday night shows ever came in late 97 when they company had its first Raw in Madison Square Garden. I can't remember the entire show, but from what I remember, this is the show in which Rocky Mavia cut the famous "Die Rocky Die" promo, HHH faced Cactus Jack in a streetfight in the first Jack appearance in a WWF ring, and Austin culminated his anger at WWF management for sidelining him after the neck injury by stunning Vince McMahon.
Posted By: Michael L (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:26 PM
Pretty sure you could consider the Brooklyn Brawler a heel JTTS.
Posted By: Guest#5840 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:28 PM
Kane started out in Jerry Lawler's USWA promotion in memphis. Don't know if this counts as a major promotion though.
Posted By: Jlevysan (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 02:31 PM
Given the time frames, I would have to say that it's pretty unlikely any of them ever made it to Betamax. By the time 1985 came around, Betamax was practically dead in the water, and it just would not be cost effective to make them on Betamax as well.
...and you then post a video advertising them , where it states: "AVAILABLE ON VHS OR BETA".
Posted By: Alex (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 03:11 PM
Oh, Bobby. Heenan does not look good at all. That saddens me more than anything I can think of in wrestling, and good lord think of all the ground that covers.
You tell me what noble god would (essentially) silence the Brain's voice before it was time. YOU TELL ME. And why he would do such an awful thing.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 03:13 PM
Question:
This stems from a video included in the recent top ten Bret Hart matches list. At the end of his Summerslam '91 match you can plainly see Mr. Perfect frantically shaking his head no at the ref as the submission was called. Was the match running long, or was there something more to it? Second, when Bret ripped off Perfect's singlet just after that, was it planned? It just seemed needlessly malicious to do that to my favorite wrestler. That night began my hatred of all things Bret, which in hindsight made it much more fun to watch him.
* * * * *
Both were planned. The singlet idea was actually Hennig's, as a sort of trophy for Bret to wave, so lay off the Hitman.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 03:59 PM
Tom Campbell is the man, best commentary of all time!
Posted By: Tom Campbell's No.1 Fan (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 04:30 PM
Well Jericho did break his arm the same day as an SMW card (accordign to his book, whole practicing the ShootingStarPress) and still wrestled the match after coming back from the hospital. So he has been injured, but has never missed any significant time due to injury.
Posted By: FRS (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 04:33 PM
Bobby Heenan doesn't look very good, it's very sad to see him this way... I've read about his health issues, but I was shocked when I saw him in this video... Does anybody know anything about his current state of health?
Posted By: Guest#8129 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:03 PM
I think a lot of you are confusing "JTTS", or Jobber To The Stars, with out and out JOBBERS.
For reference sake, Koko B. Ware is a JTTS. He never won a match that I can remember, but he did have relatively high-profile feuds and he did make it to Wrestlemania on several different occassions. He was there to make the stars look better. You can make the argument that even legends like Terry Funk and Harley Race served this function once they made it to the WWF, because they never beat anybody either and were there solely to make the top guys look even better.
Contrast that with, say, Iron Mike Sharpe (who WHOOOOOOA ARRRRRRGH NOOOOOOOOO I love as much as the rest of you), who never won matches, never had any significant feuds, and never worked any major shows. Guys like him, Barry O, and others would often lose to the JTTS's like Koko.
Nowadays, I think the best example of a JTTS is Evan Bourne. Occasionally he'll have a long-term program or get on a PPV, but he never wins anything or gets over on anybody. But I'm having a really hard time thinking of any straight-up jobbers, because the TV product isn't situated for that anymore. There are a few in ROH (Alex Payne, Sal Rinauro, etc.), but none on major cable wrestling. Maybe Chavo Guerrero.
Posted By: The REAL MP (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:21 PM
am i the only one who doesnt think the rock deserves to be in the wwe hall of fame or what?
Posted By: just in case (Guest) on January 05, 2010 at 11:03 PM
No Sir, you are not alone.
Posted By: The Mysterious WankerX (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:33 PM
whoever said mike is short for michelle, either you've never known a michelle or there's some kind of cultural difference between where we live. but every michelle i've ever known(half dozen or so) has gone by "mitch" for short.
Posted By: rick86 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:40 PM
I know Scott Hall was in ECW, but don't remember all the details. It was a two-night appearance he did circa 2000, after his WCW days. I don't think it made TV (could be wrong) and if I recall correctly he lost to Big Sal E. Graziano, who barely ever wrestled...
Posted By: Guest#3486 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:42 PM
i'd also like to add, in reference to the JTTS debate, that recent wwe JTTS' might include snitsky(for his pathetic matches with cena) and umaga, who had an extended feud with cena, but never really did anything significant(other than the ic title, which is a joke these days anyway)
Posted By: rick86 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 05:44 PM
2 is the worst. For the reasons stated above. Vince McMahon won at 2 but he wasnt really in the match and Rey was a way of doing it without giving him 1. If you draw 2 you are there just as long as 1. 1 comes out first but he isnt wrestling and he gets the jump on 2 as he steps through the ropes or slides into the ring. Watch DiBiase jump Koko. 1 usually lasts longer than 2 except for the above cases. I would rather have 1 then 2 so I could get the jump on him.
Posted By: Radtke (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 06:43 PM
Don't think Bob Backlund was ever injured.
Posted By: ROH Commish (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:08 PM
Maybe Mike's father named her that because he knew he wouldn't be around and wanted to toughen her up best he could in his abscence... First major female wrestling announcer, seemed to work!
Posted By: Sue's Dad (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:10 PM
Hall NEVER wrestled for ECW but, he did show up at the building with PJ and was asked to leave by Douglas Bam Bam and Candido among others in the ring at that time cuz they all had heat with him for screwin them in WWF!
Posted By: hateman (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:16 PM
Good call ODOG. The night before WMV also gave us a great stone cold promo. I'm go down jabroni hang a left at know your role blvd. roll right into room 3:16 and burn that son of a bitch (smackdown hotel) to the ground.
P.S. Bob Backlund was only kayfabe injured against the Sheik.
Posted By: ROH Commish (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 07:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that Kevin Nash has never been injured either.
Posted By: Guest#9212 (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 09:14 PM
I think Scott Hall threw the tv title in the trash can. Than Hacksaw Jim Duggan found it and started to defend it.
Posted By: elwheeo (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:56 PM
And Ken Kennedy is has never been healthy. MR INJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! ! INJURY!
Posted By: Radtke (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 10:58 PM
Mark Henry has never worked for another major promotion.
Posted By: saneiac (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:33 PM
I just love how Billy Gunn, of all wrestlers, Billy Gunned it for #9.
Posted By: Jeremy (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:39 PM
Another guy who has never been hurt is Sid Vicio... oh wait, he snapped his damn leg in half jumping off the second rope... ouch
Posted By: Guest#9341 (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 12:16 AM
thank you Guest#1686
@ Jason Douglas, pretty sure Perfects back was injured bad at this time and Earl calling for the bell is for Perfects saftey (i assume). Although if Bret knew about Perfects back, then he's a jerk for leaning as far back as he did and after the bell.
lol @ Guest#9212
Posted By: eRIC (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 02:14 AM
Scott Hall was in ECW at the end of 2000. He debuted on a house show 11/10/00 that was shown on TNN via the fan cam clip (as per googling). Naturally, this was in the waining days ECW so any longterm activities were nil.
Re: stars in other companies; JBL was in Global and was breaking in at the end of the teritory era so he could be off the list, depending on your definition of 'major promotion'. Many posters are confusing developmental with other companies. Example, Kane was active in Memphis as part of early iterations of the WWE developmental process. This also explains his pairing with Lawler in his first full time character Issac Yankem, DDS.
Posted By: mjmoon29 (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 08:31 AM
"Yeah, Cena and Rock have worked for just one major company, emphasis on the word major. I'm sure I'm going to forget people, but, off the top of my head, JBL, Matt Hardy, Trish Stratus, Kane, Brock Lesnar, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista… Miz… I mean, after this point it's all current guys. I know I will get yelled at below…"
Not going to yell, just want to correct you if it hasn't been done in the other 85 comments.
Matt Hardy worked a couple of ROH shows. I think ROH counts in this conversation.
Brock Lesnar worked in NJPW as well as IGF in Japan. IGF may not count as a major promotion, but NJPW definitely counts.
Posted By: Rapidfire (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 06:40 PM
I own a copy of Wrestlemania 3 on betamax, though, oddly, I've never owned a betamax player.
Posted By: It's true! (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 07:05 PM
12:00 p.m. on the USA networks on Sundays. How do you people not remember this? How the hell did you people get your Duke of Dorchester or Bad News Brown fix?
Posted By: nbrfwhoooo (Guest) on January 06, 2010 at 11:44 AM
Actually, that show was called "All- American Wrestling" not All-Star Wrestling. I think they're talking about a completely different show.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 09:22 PM
I always thought that Superstars was the A show, Wrestling Challenge the B show, and All American Wrestling the C Show,, I remember that show airing in San Diego on Sunday night and was kinda of a recap show of Superstars and Challenge
Posted By: Chemolition (Guest) on January 07, 2010 at 10:43 PM
how to record any audio from the internet:
short version: google Audio Hijack and download the app. you can record up to 10 minutes of audio for free. they only ask that you pay for the program if recording over 10 minutes. i record in short spurts anyway, so i've been able to use it for years without paying. personally, i love it =)
Posted By: tony t (Guest) on January 08, 2010 at 10:58 AM
As for why Mike McGuirk is a woman with a man's name, I work with a female Mike and her story is her dad was going to name his child after himself no matter what. So maybe some people just have hard-ons for certain names
Posted By: Guest#2063 (Guest) on January 08, 2010 at 04:21 PM
my brain hurts from reading your rr # answer!!
Posted By: pjl (Guest) on January 09, 2010 at 08:45 AM
Jake wasn't given the I-C title because of the injury fro the guitar, he wrestled leading up to, and on WMIII after the shot, Jake spent the Spring and Summer after WMIII in drug rehab, and that cost him the I-C title. Honky Tonk Man and Jimmy Hart have since confirmed that. Jimmy even said that Honky got his legendary title run because Jake screwed up, Jake was slated for an I-C title run in 1987.
Posted By: The Man (Guest) on January 10, 2010 at 12:49 PM
"Question:
This stems from a video included in the recent top ten Bret Hart matches list. At the end of his Summerslam '91 match you can plainly see Mr. Perfect frantically shaking his head no at the ref as the submission was called. Was the match running long, or was there something more to it? Second, when Bret ripped off Perfect's singlet just after that, was it planned? It just seemed needlessly malicious to do that to my favorite wrestler. That night began my hatred of all things Bret, which in hindsight made it much more fun to watch him.
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on January 06, 2010 at 01:59 PM"
Wow, you really are a mark aren't you? You do realize that was planned right? Wrestling tights are very, very tough to rip and tear, for obvious reasons, yet Bret was able to tear Curt's tights easily. That was planned. Not only for the reason that was mentioned before, but it was almost symbolic. Hennig went into the match expecting that to be his last wrestling match ever. His back was so screwed up he didn't think he could ever wrestle again, and he was getting high 6 figure payouts from his insurance policy at Lloyds of London. If you noticed, after Curt's tights were torn, he was wearing black tights. I bet that was symbolic of going "full circle". Because those were the tights Curt wore when he originally joined the WWF/E as "Mr. Perfect" (look at his Survivor Series 1988 match when he was on Andre's and Bravo's team against Jake and Hacksaw to see those tights). That was symbolic because he was doing everything he could to put Bret over, while end his career with "perfect" closure, pun intended.
Posted By: The Man (Guest) on January 10, 2010 at 12:59 PM
Yeah your Scott Hall
Posted By: POTTS (Guest) on January 10, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Copyright � 2011 411mania.com, LLC. All rights reserved.
Click here for our privacy policy. Please help us serve you better, fill out our survey.
Use of this site signifies your agreement to our terms of use.