High Road/Low Road 05.21.10: Randy Orton’s Face Turn

Welcome back to the High Road/Low Road!

A brief explanation of the column: Normally, Sat takes the High Road (positive view) on angles, gimmicks, and other wrestling related “stuff” while Chad Nevett takes the Low Road (negative view), but, this week, things are reversed with Chad taking the High Road and Sat taking the Low Road.

Sat: The results section has been moved at the suggestion of a commenter. I think it makes sense to have the new stuff in the beginning and the older stuff as the end.

RANDY ORTON’S FACE TURN

High Road:

The thing that stands out most about Randy Orton’s recent face turn is how gradual it has been and that it’s been all because of fan reaction. When Orton came back from his injury in 2008, he had a good mix of cheers and boos, which was maintained even when he was playing the heel against Triple H, Batista, and John Cena. Recently, the cheers have outweighed the boos and the WWE, smartly, went where the fans wanted to go already. That alone makes the face turn a High Road.

Low Road:

I kind of think the WWE waited too long to make the face turn. He was really popular when he punted McMahon in the head and I think he was getting cheers against Cena. The face turn was definitely a good idea; I am questioning the timing of it.

High Road:

Unlike Orton’s first face turn after being kicked out of Evolution, nothing about him has changed except he’s begun moving quicker. It’s the same character, same mannerisms, same in-ring style, just sped up a bit, and that’s what’s making this work. The fans began cheering Orton because they like his character and the WWE didn’t automatically make him into a generic face. He’s still the Viper and the people love it.

Low Road:

I agree with this point. The main concern I have is the same point I made in the first low road. Why did the WWE wait to make the turn, it would have been more effective had it happened when the fans first started cheering him?

High Road:

Orton as a face makes a good contrast to John Cena’s face character. While Cena is a stand-up Superman hero that takes on any challenge and is someone for kids to look up to, Orton is more an anti-hero. He’ll still nail anyone with an RKO, he’ll attack someone from behind, he’ll do whatever it takes to win. He adds a level of roughness into the PG-friendly faces the WWE likes to use.

Low Road:

While this is nice and probably will get a lot of play from the internet fans, I can’t see it working for the casual viewer. I just find it tough to think that the casual viewer is going to cheer somebody who attacks people from behind. I prefer this character because it is different, but the problem is that the casual viewer is not going to agree with me.

High Road:

Orton as a face creates some interesting possibilities that haven’t existed for a long time, while ending some that have been overused. He’s spent so much time feuding with John Cena and Triple H that with him as a face, we, hopefully, won’t see those match-ups again for a long time. But, now, Orton can face heels like Edge, Chris Jericho, the Miz, and Sheamus. He’s had programs with most of them in the past, but not necessarily when they and he were at the top of their game, which they all are now.

Low Road:

I see Triple H turning pretty soon, so we’ll get to see that feud pretty soon with the heel/face dynamic changed. As for the other opponents, you mentioned for Orton, the only one I really want to see are Edge and Chris Jericho and it looks like Chris Jericho is going to be stuck in the tag team division for awhile.

High Road:

Edge’s face turn wasn’t working out well and people love to hate him so much that he’s a natural opponent for Orton as a face, playing off their history as both partners and opponents. Edge draws so much heat as a heel that it helps Orton get over as a face more, which he needs. While the fans were already behind Orton as a face, having a hated heel like Edge on the other side of the ring only strengthens Orton’s turn and makes it more likely that it will last.

Low Road:

Edge’s turn could have really worked against anybody just because Edge is a natural at being a heel. It was a smart move to have Edge turn against Randy Orton because he has not been getting the cheers that the WWE probably expected when they first turned him. Having him feud against Edge is definitely going to elevate Randy Orton to a top face that the WWE expects.

High Road:

While some found Orton boring in the ring, I think his face turn has made him more exciting. He hasn’t changed his style or moveset, but by speeding things up, he’s much more dynamic and imposing. He looks more dangerous in the ring than most wrestlers and is one of the best at embodying his character during a match. Simply speeding things up took Orton from being very good in the ring to being great.

Low Road:

I have not noticed a difference in how he wrestles at all. He still seems to be like he has not sped thing up, which he should do as a baby face. His WrestleMania match comes to mind of how his in ring style has not changed, when it really should change.

High Road:

Legacy was a group that didn’t quite accomplish as much as it could (or should) have and, moving forward, Orton needed something to put that group behind him, and his face turn is just that. He went one way while Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase went another, and he seems different from the Orton we saw in Legacy simply because of the turn. The face turn freshened Orton up a little at a time when he needed it.

Low Road:

The thing that has hurt his face turn is the fact that when he did turn, his first feud was with Legacy. Legacy is one of those teams where it seems like nobody really cares about and it is going to be tough to get a reaction from the fans (negative or positive) when are you going against a team that nobody cares about. I think that definitely hurt his face turn.

Are you taking the High Road or the Low Road?

High Road
Low Road
Both Roads
OR

Simply write “High Road”, “Low Road”, or “Both Roads” in the comment section.

Results for Abyss as a Main Eventer:

High Road: 19%
Low Road: 58%
Both Roads: 23%

Chad Nevett: I’m with the readers here: Low Road all the way. Abyss is kind of where Kane is. He’s a good worker and an imposing force who can be slotted into the main event from time to time, but is mostly an upper midcard talent. And this whole magic ring story has been awful.

Sat: I think Hogan could have picked somebody else in TNA to be their version of John Cena. This is a definite low road.

E-Mails:

These are all of the e-mails that we received this week. We do not respond to the actual e-mail, but the reply to your e-mail will be below.

freddy Neuwendyke Writes:

Honestly I would have went high road if you were talking about Abyss when he was managed by James Mitchell and was a badass monster having wicked hardcore matches. The current version though has acted like a total puss for the past year or so and now is little more than an overgrown 5 year old from the `80s. The whole gimmick just smacks of stoking Hulk’s ego and is too much like the old “Evad” Sullivan thing from WCW.

Sadly it’s what happens anytime they try to humanize a monster heel. They take away that mystique they had, that aura of being an inhuman unstoppable threat.

Chad Nevett: I understand the desire to humanize the monster heel, especially when a guy like Hogan is very high on him, but the way they tried just hasn’t worked.

Sat: Abyss stood out as the monster, right now he is standing out just because he has a ridiculous character.

Comments:

Below are the comments for last week’s columns and our responses. Every comment will not be included because it makes our lives a lot easier. The comments section was last looked at on the morning of May 19.

fails Writes:

Fail Road (Low Road)

I remember one year ago when Abyss actually had a solid character. Nowadays his most memorable part of his TNA 2.0 career is fighting over HoF-rings.

Chad Nevett: Privately, I will now refer to the Low Road as the Fail Road.

Sat: So, would the high road be the Pass Road.

Guest#7676 Writes:

LOW ROAD!!! Abyss as a main-eventer has failed MASSIVELY. I like the guy, but he belongs in the mid-card having monsters ball matches and putting other people over. Hogan pushing Abyss as one of TNA’s top stars was just one of many ridiculous booking decisions made in the last few months. The whole “Magical Hall of Fame Ring” storyline was unbelievably bad, and is probably a strong candidate for wrestlecrap’s “gooker of the year” award for worst angle.

Chad Nevett: I don’t mind Abyss being pushed necessarily, but the way it has been done is simply awful. It’s laughably bad.

Sat: Let’s not talk about Monster’s Ball. A great concept ruined by TNA. Kind of like Abyss actually.

Ronnie LaFianza Writes:

I’m gonna go with both roads. The Abyss angle going on right now isn’t the worse thing ever. The problem is that Abyss is a face, and booking a monster face tends to be difficult. If Abyss were to turn heel, I feel as if the angle would get over more (of him being a main eventer). What TNA needs to do is turn Abyss heel by having him take out Hogan. That would definitely help Abyss get over (IMO).

Chad Nevett: Good points here. A monster face is much more difficult, especially when booked in a cartoonish manner. But, yes, Abyss’s character lends itself better to a heel turn where he can be unleashed. The only way he could work as a heel would be a massive overhaul of the character most likely.

Sat: The problem with a heel turn on Hogan is that everybody eventually expects that to happen. This whole angle has been a disaster.

Guest#9519 Writes:

high road!!!

kane……big show…..great kahali……

why not abyss…..hes better than all of them……

he should go heel though……

Chad Nevett: I don’t think Abyss is better than Kane or the Big Show. Definitely not the former. Though, I do think Abyss and Kane are similar — their tendency to have really goofy, awful stories is a big similarity and they could have the same role in their respective companies. There are a lot worse things to be in wrestling than Kane.

Sat: Abyss is a good big man. But, it does not matter how great you are if you are stuck with a ridiculous gimmick.

Comment Board Poster Writes:

Low road.

Abyss is at about the same talent level as Mankind, Orton, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Shannon Moore, David Arquette.

These people have no right to be in the main event. Maybe secondary titles. But there is no wrestling talent, no charisma, no character and no mic skills.

None of the above have ever put on a decent match unless they were dragged to it by another performer.

Chad Nevett: Orton? If you don’t think Randy Orton belongs in the main event, you’re just plain wrong.

Sat: Wow, just wow. I don’t even know what to say.

TedE Writes:

Low road

Abyss = poor mans Mankind… and that mask looks ridiculous. I just don’t buy Abyss as anything more than a hardcore spot jockey. Even in that role, I couldn’t give a crap about him.

Chad Nevett: Part of me agrees with you, but I think Abyss’s size brings a unique element to that character. He’s hardly the first to take elements of other wrestlers to build his character (actually, they all do that) and I think he’s made it his own.

Sat: You need some guy who are hardcore spot jockey and Abyss filled that role. I was shocked when I heard that Abyss was TNA’s John Cena. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Guest#3606 Writes:

Low Road

For Abyss to be taken seriously as a main eventer, he has to be built up. The whole “Ring of Power” thing only adds to the damage. If they wanted to show Hogan having faith in Abyss, then maybe have Hogan show faith in Abyss. No need for “Lord of the Rings” angle here.
Why not have him be a face “problem solver”? Instead of the heel tactic of ambushing guys and simply out numbering faces, he could stomp through some upper level heels in the ring. In the process, he can be made more serious, focused, whatever.

Like they say, show me, don’t tell me.

Chad Nevett: Exactly. I think Abyss leading Team Hogan in the Lethal Lockdown match was a smart move since it showed him as Hogan’s right-hand man and the guy he has the most confidence in. That the match then ended with Hogan, Bischoff, and Flair cancelled that right out.

Sat: Abyss would have worked as a problem solver, but guess that makes no sense to Hogan and company.

HBK’s Smile Writes:

Low road. He has become too attached to bad angles to now be taken seriously, despite his size. The Hogan alliance reeks of Dave “Evad” Sullivan (if you don’t know who that is, consider yourself lucky). Him in the main event doesn’t elevate him, it lowers the TNA main event scene.

Chad Nevett: I think it would probably be best for Abyss to step away for a little while, let people forget about some of the goofy, stupid crap he’s been involved in, and then come back fresher.

Sat: The TNA booking is a mess. They had Samoa Joe threatening Steiner with a knife, this power ring, and from the spoilers, it looks like it will not be getting better any time soon.

JR Writes:

Hogan has done more damage to Abyss than TNA’s booking could ever do. I mean at least back in the day he was a silent killer who was booked to install fear in the hearts of his opponents. Now he’s a child who has to rely on a stupid ring in order to get over. LOW ROAD ALL THE WAY!

Chad Nevett: How is Hogan different than TNA booking these days? But, yeah, I’m with you. He’s the Monster Abyss… hard to have him as anything other than, you know, a monster.

Sat: The one thing that TNA can do is that they can turn him into a monster pretty quickly if they want to. Just have him black hole slam Hogan into tacks. Wait, that might turn him into a huge baby face!

Jon Writes:

Total low road, he was a joke until until Hogan came along and has was just pushed to the top of the card to act as Hogan’s proxy in his never ending feud with Ric Flair. The ring may not be magical but the angle is still ridiculous, he’s not a bad wrestler but not main event level and watching him squel and clap with Hogan was just embarrssing

Chad Nevett: I wouldn’t say he was a joke. He’d been misused a bit, especially during his work with Mick Foley, but he was still crazy and dangerous. I do like his enthusiasm over Hogan, though. It’s believable that guys would be openly excited about Hogan liking them.

Sat: The whole Foley/Abyss feud did not help matters either. I had forgotten about that trainwreck and thinking about that reminded me of Foley winning the TNA title a year ago.

Guest#9962 Writes:

As is, Both Roads.

Positives:
– Loyal TNA original.
– Big, athletic wrestler.

Negatives:
– Character is a simpleton, like Evad, Eugene, and Festus.
– Doesn’t have the “look” to be the face of TNA.

I agree with the earlier commenters. Abyss is a monster who has lost some of his mystique. He needs to be heel and/or much more serious to earn a “High Road.”

Chad Nevett: I really liked that both Hogan and Flair sided with TNA originals. While former WWE guys have gotten some big pushes, the initial impulse to put over the homegrown talent like that was good. Execution was bad.

Sat: The funny thing is that last week, we did not have the Chelsea/Abyss 30 day thing to talk about.

The Great Capt. Smooth Writes:

High road. He is over, has a good combo of relative youth/experience, is able to devastate the competition, and there is plenty of talent in TNA that is able to have good matches with anybody. Lastly, he is a scary looking guy. I wouldn’t want to fuck with him.

Chad Nevett: He’s over? I wouldn’t go that far, but I do agree that he’s talented and can have good matches with most anyone.

Sat: He’s talented and can have good matches, but he needs to get away from Hogan. The only way that this can happen is that Abyss during the next 30 days need to keep looking at Brooke Hogan instead of Chelsea.

Violent_Messiah Writes:

Both Roads: I could buy Abyss in the Main Event as a big bumping, monster heel brawler (without the Hardcore crap) but not with this pathetic Hogan/HoF ring crap. Russo or whoever is booking this nonsense have pretty much killed the guy’s gimmick for 3 years now.

Chad Nevett: Monster heel Abyss is definitely better than the current incarnation. I don’t think it will take three years for him to recover. Like a lot of things, some great booking could fix the problem quickly.

Sat: The hall of fame thing is ridiculous and then you add in Ric Flair’s ring and it just becomes to weird.

ROH Commish Writes:

Low Road.

But because of his limitations in the ring, he really can only be in the main event or global title scene. He is not in shape and takes chair shots and tack bumps to cover that up. The promos can be tweaked but he can’t be saved from a lackluster in-ring ability. Matt Morgan should have gotten Abyss’ spot.

Chad Nevett: I’m kind of surprised that they didn’t push Matt Morgan instead of Abyss since he does seem like a more logical candidate for this role. Couple that with his recent flirting with the main event and world belt, and I’ve got to say that that would have been a much better choice. And that’s coming from a guy who’s loved Morgan’s recent tag team champion run.

Sat: I thought Morgan would be pushed in Abyss’ spot too, but I guess maybe it was changed because it was too predictable?

Eboney Writes:

Low Road.

TNA really got rid of everything that made Abyss entertaining:
– Didn’t talk, therefore couldn’t cut bad promos
– Just went in there and ripped people’s heads off
– Someone that could be the best man version of Satan himself as his manager

Now? Abyss is just a whiney and masked man stuck who has been stuck in storyline hell for the last 3 or 4 years. Pro wrestling is suppose to be about good vs bad.. And TNA tries so damn hard to make it literally holy vs evil when it comes to Abyss. Too complicated for a character that used to be able to write itself.

Chad Nevett: I don’t think Abyss is that bad on the mic. He’s got a lot of passion, which goes a long way. I do like how he tends to get right up near the camera, but that would work better if he was a heel, admittedly.

Sat: He was a very good character for a while, but you eventually have to change. The problem is that he has changed a bit too much these past few months.

Guest#7201 Writes:

Low Road

Especially as long as he’s this goofy moron. Hey Hogan guess what? The reason Cena gets away with being a dork is because kids and women LOVE him. As the polls TNA has done show, nobody likes Abyss.

Chad Nevett: People seem to like Abyss, just not the way he’s being used right now. He’s a really talented wrestler and could be hugely over if booked properly. But, you’re right, Cena’s superface goofy character works because of who he is and how he executes it, while Abyss can’t pull it off.

Sat: Good point. Cena’s getting cheered by women and kids; there’s no way that fanbase is cheering for Abyss or maybe Hogan was thinking that since women and kids cheer him, then by proxy they will cheer Abyss?

Sev Writes:

High road. I’ve always been a fan of Abyss since I started following TNA a few years ago. I thought his NWA Title Run would have been less underwhelming if he’d actually been booked like a monster.

Chad Nevett: I wasn’t watching TNA then, so I’m not too aware of what his run then was like, but if he wasn’t booked as the Monster, then I can see why it would be underwhelming.

Sat: The problem when he won the title was by DQ, when the rule had not been enforced in quite awhile. That was another disaster for TNA.

Hyde_Hill Writes:

Both Roads

He is great as an upper midcarder or close to main eventer, but the way he was pushed was nonsensical and he needs to get back to his original weight and character either heel or face.

Chad Nevett: I agree 100%. I think he could be a neutral character (again, like Kane). Someone who fights faces or heels, and is there just as a big guy to get past and get people over. It’s not a glamorous role, but it’s an important and solid one.

Sat: Yeah, that is probably the best use for Abyss.

Guest#0536 Writes:

Both Roads
I miss The Monster Abyss, the one that didn’t talk and just destroyed people. He got put through some horrible storylines but if you just take out the convoluted back story and just let him be a monster he could work as a main event heel. He could probably do his own talking nowadays too.

I don’t like this new Abyss, and while I think he works as a main eventer I don’t think he’s cut out to be THE main eventer. I remember hearing Hogan being quoted in a interview as saying he wanted Abyss to be his John Cena and to TNA’s credit I genuinely think they’ve tried to turn him into THE star of the promotion but I’m not sure it’s worked. Sure Abyss is getting a decent reaction from the live crowd but no more or less than he was before and let’s face it the impact zone isn’t exactly a very good indication of what the majority of the fans feel. Blaming Abyss for the ratings taking a nosedive is a bit much, and it’s debatable how much we can rely on that fans poll in which he came last for reliable information, but what other indicators do we have that the super push is a success one way or the other? This is mostly why I say Both Roads. I don’t like this Abyss because I don’t feel it’s working and I’m not sure I can reliably tell whether it’s working for the majority of people are not.

Chad Nevett: Abyss can be in main events, but he doesn’t seem like a steady main eventer. He’s the guy you plug in from time to time when you need another body or for your champ to get over by defeating the Monster. It’s a place where a lot of big guys land and it’s not a bad place to be.

Sat: I don’t think Abyss is being blamed for low ratings. That’s all on Hogan and Bischoff.

Guest#7702 Writes:

Low road.

Even in his prime (05-06) he wasn’t main event material IMHO. He was a solid upper midcard monster heel, nothing more. He’s been a joke for a good few years now, and his matches aren’t of the same caliber as they used to be. Abyss is in the exact same position as Samoa Joe, too many ridiculous storylines and character changes have killed any momentum they once had.

Chad Nevett: I think TNA has been doing a good job in recent weeks to make Joe seem like a serious threat and the same could be done with Abyss. Take him off the board for a period of time and, when he returns, book him as the Monster.

Sat: Samoa Joe is a good example of what a bad run can do to you. Hopefully, that can be changed.

JLAJRC Writes:

Both Roads. I actually think Abyss would be a good main eventer. The problem is that this “sensitive guy” story, while kinda unique in wrestling, just is not working. Abyss should be TNA’s version of Kane, Taker, or even Mankind. A monster who just destroys everyone without caring who it is. A monster can also be both heel and a face.

I actually don’t think it’s too late to fix it. Just one chokeslam to Hogan is all it would take to do it.

Chad Nevett: Agreed. People act like the character is ruined forever, which is rarely true. It doesn’t even take a lot to repair a misused wrestler like this. I’m not sure a turn on Hogan would be best, but that’s because it’s so obvious.

Sat: I think people might cheer a chokeslam, so it is a dangerous move. But, yeah something needs to change.

Guest#2739

A comment about the format of the column:

It’s just my opinion, but I think the whole thing would flow better if you put the results of last week’s voting right before the previous week’s comments. Jumping back and forth from last week’s results to current week column and back to last week comments just feels weird.

My opinion only, thanks for the hard work.

Chad Nevett: Great idea! As you’ll notice, we took it and changed things up with this column. If anyone else has any suggestions, don’t hesitate to tell us them.

Sat: Yep, we decided to make the change. We’ll see how people react to it.

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Your reasons for taking the High Road, Low Road, or Both Roads and suggestions for future High Road/Low Road are welcome at [email protected] or in the comment section. Your reply will be included in next week’s column.