411 Fact or Fiction 9.02.10: 900th Raw, TNA No Surrender, CM Punk's Promo and More!

Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 09.02.2010

Did the 900th Raw live up to its milestone? Will No Surrender be a solid-to-good PPV for TNA? Will Jake Roberts be in the WWE Hall of Fame? Has Kane's run as World Champion been handled well? 411's Aaron Hubbard and Will Helm debate these topics and more in the latest 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling!



Hello, ladies and gentlemen! Welcome to 411 Wrestling Fact or Fiction for the first week of September! WWE had their 900th Raw this Monday featuring a much talked-about promo by CM Punk, while TNA has No Surrender coming up this weekend! We also have news of Kurt Angle making a surprising endorsement, Carlito's 90 day no-compete clause ending and much, much more! Joining us on the panel this week we have the Movie Zone's own Will Helm stepping up against the man behind the Contentious Ten, the R's of ROH and "8 Simple Rules" in the Gaming Zone, Aaron Hubbard! There's a lot to get into here and our contestants are ready, so let's get right down to it!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect WWE & TNA-related questions.

1. The 900th Raw was a show that lived up to the significance of its milestone.



Aaron Hubbard: FICTION. This show sucked, plain and simple. It was one of the worst RAWs of the year, and was mostly dedicated to SmackDown! I'm sure the people who still watch WWE on a weekly business enjoyed it well enough. But me, I stopped watching WWE programming on a regular basis after the debut of the Nexus. I've lost interest. I watched this episode due to the historic occasion, expecting something special. The only thing special about it was that it renewed my faith in my boycott.

Will Helm: FICTION. Though I could say that the 900th Raw was a successful microcosm of the brand's recent history -- after all, there was a bait-and-switch semi-main, a lackluster Divas match, and way too much talking, the show itself lacked one quality that WWE often does well and this show certainly needed: nostalgia. Rather than treat the audience to some of the great moments in Raw history, most of the clips were either from the show's very early years or very recent episodes, and most were incidents that are well known to regular viewers. There weren't any surprise appearances to speak of from the Raws of old, nor was there any inkling of an exciting future for Raw. Most interestingly, there seemed to be WAY too many SmackDown superstars on the show, making it less a 900th episode of Raw and more a two-hour supershow.

Score: 1 for 1

2. TNA No Surrender looks to be a solid-to-good Pay-Per-View for the company.

Aaron Hubbard: FICTION. Simply because right now I only have about half of a card to judge, and nothing on the card looks interesting. I think the title match has potential to be good (the idea of Shelly and Wolfe trading holds has me interested), but I also think it has potential to be a massive clash in styles. Also...notice that every semi-finalist in the TNA World Title Tourney is an ex-WWE guy? Remember last year when AJ Styles won the title this time last year? Yeah, well, the experiment is over. Back to being the good old piece of crap promotion that makes me hate wrestling.

Will Helm: FICTION. For a long time I had been a bit of a TNA apologist; though they had a tendency to shoot themselves in the feet, I always felt that TNA was one or two steps away from putting together a long run of quality "sports entertainment." Well, it's been 8 1/2 years and TNA still has yet to put together that long run, and I don't think No Surrender is a step in that direction. First and foremost among the problems with No Surrender is the current Kurt Angle storyline, wherein a loss means the end of his career. The problem with this line of booking, especially for someone still as viable as Angle, is that anything less than total victory is a pathetic disappointment, rather than a heartbreaking loss. Even though Jeff Hardy can handle a loss, it's almost obvious that Hardy is going to lose, given the circumstances. Sadly, the manufactured drama surrounding this match takes away from two matches featuring wrestlers desperately in need of establishment compared to the TNA elite: Dinero vs. Anderson and the Tag Title match. These six men are the future of the company -- some more than others, of course -- but they will most assuredly be overshadowed or downright ignored, as per usual. And, as for the "I Quit" match featuring Styles vs. Dreamer? WTF.

Score: 2 for 2

3. Assuming he can clean himself up now that he's retiring, Jake Roberts will end up in the WWE Hall of Fame at some point.

Aaron Hubbard: FACT. Except he'll go in anyway, regardless of whether he cleans up. I also find that highly unlikely. Not that I don't want Jake to be cleaned up, but history is against him. Jake Roberts is one of the charismatic, psychological gifted, and memorable wrestlers of his generation, and his generation was the one where wrestling was at its peak in mainstream popularity. I daresay that as many people know who Jake the Snake is as those who know the current crop of WWE main eventers. I hope Randy Orton inducts him.

Will Helm: FACT. Though he seems, at times, to be wrestling's answer to Keith Richards, Jake Roberts is, without a doubt and without question, barring his personal demons getting the best of him one final time, a WWE Hall of Famer. He may never have been the most physical of combatants and, even at his healthiest, he never was the picture of fitness, but Roberts mastered one art that many wrestlers never come close to even knowing: true psychology. Roberts had the uncanny knack of making his matches events just by talking about them. His match pacing was brilliant and methodical, making every move and gesture seem thought out to the highest degree to highlight Roberts' often cruel nature as a character. Everything he did had purpose and drama, and the crowd -- and even some of his peers -- would eat it up. Roberts may be one of wrestling's few true tortured artists and should certainly be recognized for it, at the very least with an induction into Vince's hallowed halls.

Score: 3 for 3

4. Out of the four remaining contestants, Kurt Angle is the clear favorite to win the TNA World Heavyweight Title at No Surrender.

Aaron Hubbard: FICTION. It's TNA Wrestling. There are no clear favorites. Jeff Hardy, The Pope and Mr. Anderson could win the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised. Two people could win in some BS finish that makes two people simultaneously the World Champion and I wouldn't be surprised. He better go to the finals though, because Hardy vs. Dinero or Anderson would suck. Is Angle the best logical choice? Yeah, probably, but when did "best logical choice" mean anything to TNA?

Will Helm: FACT. Though I pretty much explained why this has to happen back in #2, I ought to reiterate just why this has to happen: anything less than a Kurt Angle victory is a complete, utter, and pathetic failure, whether by Angle or the booking committee. While the Ric Flair storyline leading up to WrestleMania XXIV had the same stipulation, the drama lied in the fact that Flair was at a point in his career and life where he was trying for one last shot at the brass ring; Angle, meanwhile, though not in the best of health in recent years, still does seem to have some wrestling left in him, so it isn't unbelievable for him to be a contender for the TNA title. That being said, if Angle loses on his way to the championship through his own "actions" -- an in-ring tactical mistake, for example, he looks like a fool. Meanwhile, if Angle is screwed out of his career through bad booking, he's made to look like a victim with no recourse because he's retired. There is only one way for this storyline to end, and that's with Angle as champion . . . but, of course, this is TNA.

Score: 3 for 4


SWITCH!

5. Kane's run as World Champion on SmackDown has been well-handled thus far.



Will Helm: FACT. It's almost shocking to think that even though Kane has been in the upper mid-card or better for most, if not all, of his career, this is his longest tenure with a championship. I, for one, couldn't be happier for one of WWE's rare epitomes of a company man. That being said, the only problem I have with Kane's run with the title so far is that there hasn't been enough of it. He's only had the title a little more than a month and he's already been through a proxy feud with Rey Mysterio -- who Kane sort-of framed for the assault of his "brother," The Undertaker -- before transitioning to a feud with that very same Undertaker, which will probably be the unfortunate end of the run. Other than the rushed and, seemingly, finite nature of Kane's run, it's been decent and he's been positioned as a more-than-strong-enough champion, which is more than a lot of recent title-holders can say. It's just too bad he has to lose to his "brother" in the near future.

Aaron Hubbard: FACT. Yeah, Kane's run has been well handled so far. Kane has been allowed to be his creepy, over-the-top self and has gotten over as both a diabolical mastermind and a freakish monster. It's like when Bruce Banner took over The Hulk. His promos have actually been something I go out of my way to watch. He's certainly worlds better than the WWE Champion, who gets treated like a joke.

Score: 4 for 5

6. With his 90 day no-compete clause over, Carlito will be the next WWE star to debut with TNA.

Will Helm: FICTION. No offense to Carlito, but, at the current moment, I don't know why TNA would be interested in him, other than the fact that they sometimes think that taking every WWE cast-off is a GREAT idea. Personally, I believe it would be in the best interests of all involved to pass on this, at least for the time being. TNA's roster is beyond bloated and Carlito would just add to the mess and, "wellness" issues aside, Carlito, at least in recent years, seemed like a man with little interest in the family business of professional wrestling. Toward the end of his WWE run, Carlito appeared to lack any sort of passion or drive in his performances and it reflected in his decent into mediocrity; whether this was of his own doing or a behind-the-scenes decision is unknown to me, but what is known is that it would behoove Carlito to take some time to regain his competitive spirit and come back better than ever or simply retire gracefully from the business before his current attitude makes a mockery of him, his career, and possibly his family's legacy.

Aaron Hubbard: FACT. Although calling him a WWE star is a bit generous. I actually am tentative about saying fact to this. I don't know if TNA has any interest in Carlito, and he can certainly make money in Puerto Rico. That said, if TNA calls and offers a decent figure, Carlito will go. And ratings will stay exactly the same. Actually, they might even go down a bit.

Score: 4 for 6

7. Kurt Angle endorsing Linda McMahon's Senate Run is more about keeping his options open than it is a legitimate support of her as a candidate.

Will Helm: FACT. It never hurts to suck up to your old boss's wife, does it? After all, just how much leverage does a Kurt Angle endorsement hold otherwise? While I don't doubt that Kurt Angle's personal political views coincide with Linda McMahon's on some issues and there may very well be sincere support from Angle, he shouldn't really have any interest in the campaign as he can't vote for McMahon anyway, since he doesn't live in Connecticut, as far as I know. Though Angle's endorsement is a nice enough gesture, it does, under scrutiny, smack more of wrestling politics and less of national politics.

Aaron Hubbard: FACT. At least I hope it is. No, that's not me bashing Linda McMahon. I don't like politicians as a rule, but Linda really seems to be a Washington Outsider, and though I don't necessarily agree with her viewpoints on everything, I trust her more than most politicians. The reason I hope this is fact is that I would LOVE to see Angle back in WWE again. There's a ton of fresh match ups that I would to see for him: CM Punk, Jack Swagger, Kofi Kingston, Dolph Ziggler, John Morrison and Daniel Bryan all come to mind immediately. So yeah Angle, keep your options open. Please?

Score: 5 for 7

8. CM Punk's promo on Raw was one of the better wrestling promos of the year so far.



Will Helm: FACT. Much like the aforementioned Jake Roberts, CM Punk has a mind for imbuing his promos with true psychology, which his promo on the 900th episode of Raw had in earnest. While CM Punk has, time and time again through his heel run, shown a talent for playing subtly sinister without any grand histrionics, his Raw promo stands as a fine example of that quality mixed with the added brilliance of counter-intuitiveness. After all, how many wrestlers can successfully hype a show, brand and product by pointing out what's "bad" about great and memorable moments of its history? CM Punk did just that, with his run down of "evidence" of Raw's crimes through the years. Who can then turn that lesson into a promo against his current opponent, The Big Show, and in the process show a SmackDown clip -- on Raw, mind you -- featuring UFC fighter and WWE pariah Brock Lesnar? CM Punk; that's who! Though I could have done without the old, tired "GLASS BREAKS OMG STONE COLD . . . but he's not here" gag, CM Punk's promo hit all the right notes from the moment he began speaking to the moment when The Big Show so rudely interrupted him. While there are a few veteran promo masters residing in WWE -- Jericho, Edge, and Kane come to mind, among others, CM Punk proved with his Raw promo that he belongs ranked among the best in that regard.

Aaron Hubbard: FACT. That isn't a compliment. I'm hard-pressed to think of a single really memorable promo this year, so there isn't much competition. CM Punk's promo was decent entertainment for its target audience; single males talking about their Sword of Dragon Slaying +4 with their internet friends in between Mountain Dew and browsing pictures of Jessica Alba. As part of this target audience, I enjoyed it well enough, but not enough to watch it again. If you weren't in this group though, I'd imagine it came across as stupid and obnoxious. Yet it still somehow managed to be the best thing on RAW this week.

Final Score: 6 for 8

With only one disagreement each in the first and second halves, Aaron and Will go 6 for 8! I'd like to thank both of them for their answers, and you the readers for checking out what they had to say! For Aaron Hubbard and Will Helm, this is Jeremy Thomas saying join us next week for more Wrestling Fact or Fiction!

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