Ask 411 Wrestling 09.08.10: Octo Title Holders, Bret Hart's Title Win & Champions Bonuses!

Posted by Mathew Sforcina on 09.08.2010

Did Hogan's ego get in the way of WCW's booking plans? What were the plans for Ric Flair's first run in the WWF? Has there ever been a wrestler killed in the ring from a botched move? Why was Luna so crazed? All this and more, in Ask 411 Wrestling!

Hello everyone, this is Ask 411 Wrestling, and here's a tip for you if you're ever gonna write a column for a website: Don't play a Katamari game right before you do. You can seriously cramp your hands up if you're not very good at the game.

But I'm sure I'll muddle through, because you're reading this. And if you're reading this, it means it's posted, and thus, since it's posted, I got it done, and thus, I muddled through.

Hooray for circular logic!

Hooray for The Tom Tom Club, which this week had 1 and a half hours of really great wrestling discussion (including yours truly) and then half an hour of… I really don't know how to describe it, short of saying that if you thought last week was disgusting and meant I'm heading for hell, this week means that we shot right past and ended up making Hell look honorable.

Hooray for Banner!



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Backtalking

Attendance Records: I'm really gonna be slimy here, but the question did specify ‘USA', so Toronto doesn't count…

Themes: Thank you all for your input on this issue.

Ultimo Dragon's Belts: Damm straight I have it.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Who am I? Born in 1961, I debuted in 1985. I was billed as over 300lbs. My ECW title count is 2, my WCW count is 3 and my WWF is 0 (unless you count Slammys). My last WWF match was against Goldust, my last WCW against Shawn Stasiak. Who am I?

Bam Bam Bigelow, ladies and gentlemen.

Who am I? I held the J-Crown title at some point (that would be the conglomerate of belts above), and I was involved in the tournament that created said title. I've been in a steel cage match. I've been in an MMA match. And I've never wrestled in the WWF. Who am I?

Questions, Questions, Who's Got The Questions?

Kevin starts us off and wants me to explain something.

I do have a quick question:

I am watching and writing about every program from the Monday Night Wars era, and despite noticing that Hulk Hogan was fast losing steam in 95-96, he still loomed large over the promotion. When Savage won the title at WW3, Hogan was never pulled over the top rope and they had this big brouhaha, and Hogan appealed to the crowd and Mean Gene admitted that Hogan did not lose. Anyway Savage's reign was overshadowed by Hogan claiming it was his title and he wanted a match.....yet it never materialized and they soon reformed the Megapowers with my "favorite" wrestler of all time the Boot Man!

What was the angle on that, a usually the former champ, though he lost it at Havoc gets a rematch, after all they stripped the Giant but not Savage. The camera feed was cut prior to the footage shown when he was berating Savage, but what was the deal in that whole convoluted mess? Ultimately why did the two never fight it out as Hogan was left out of the title picture, and even "suspended" for a week as they tried to repackage him as a loose cannon?

Thanks!




It's a combination of a few things. First of all, the original booking was set to be Giant winning the title back, supposedly. That was what was reported in the Observer. But at the start of the show, Hogan came out with Sting and Savage, tore off his Black gear and burnt it, along with a copy of the Observer, then said that the Internet was the real place for info.

Yeah, he said that.

Anyway, depending on your viewpoint, you can say that the whole mess was Hogan's ego getting in the way, that he just HAD to be the center of attention and he couldn't job, no, he always had to be in the right, always had to win. That's if your cynical.

Or, you might think that, at the time, the major angle was The Dungeon of Doom vs. Hogan and his friends, and that there was dissention all over the place in Hogan's team, and thus this was another step in this story, with Hogan and Savage having problems, just like Sting and Luger, and Luger and Savage. The faces kept splintering, surely this means that the Dungeon will reign, so on and so forth. In that case, it's just good storytelling (that, admittedly, never went anywhere due to another angle taking over).

Or, somewhere in the middle, they wanted to keep Hogan strong but since they also wanted to put the belt back on Flair, they needed someone else to win it, Savage would do, but Hogan had to be kept strong since he was the draw and an angle was needed for the Hogan/Giant issue to continue, so they went with that.

Really, take your pick, given the state of the company at the time. But basically the idea was, it seems, to tease dissention so that when all the faces eventually banded together and crushed the Dungeon happiness and sunshine and lollipops would naturally follow.

Anthler REALLY tires my patience, but to hell with it.

Hey Mat always loving my weekly dose of ask 411.

I got a lump sum of questions i've accumulated over time while reading ask411 yet never get around to asking. You might want to split it up into several ask411 columns if it eats too much space.

Nah, get it all out in one go.

1. How does the WWE predominantly go about hiring wrestlers? Do they actively scout out the indies, get random hook-ups and recommendations from the road agents/booker/creative/other wrestlers, or do they take applications like any other job but with a sample video enclosed instead of a cover letter? I recall from the Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho books, that Angle actively got scouted after his olympic medal win, and Jericho got in through a hook-up from Vince Russo. Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne i think applied like normal and got hired. Which method is the most predominant in the WWE?

Right now, the predominate method seems to be hiring anyone who's the offspring of a legend who's employed by or is still friendly with the company. Seriously, half the bloody roster seems to be third generation stars now. Not that that's a bad thing automatically, but still.

Anyway, it's not really one over the other. I suppose scouting is still the main source, with tryout days often getting 1 or 2 hires, and anyone they like getting a dark match or something, so most of the time it seems that it's scouting that finds most new talent. I don't have a percentage breakdown, alas, but I know they don't really scout outside the business much, that's something Heyman keeps banging on about, how they should be out there in the colleges and such, selling WWE as a career. But WWE wants passion, they want people who grew up watching, who love the business, and thus won't bail after a while for football or MMA.

Unless you're a writer, in which case having seen wrestling at some point in your life seems to DQ you…

2. Do hiring practices differ for the smaller promotions like TNA or ROH?

Yes and no. Certainly they don't have as many, if any, scouts out there watching everything. But they have try outs, same as WWE (they all have one in September, a.k.a a couple months before I'll be in the country hopefully), which is both a way to fleece some suckers allow them to evaluate and, if needed, gently let down some of the more… high aiming people out there, and to see which, if any, established independent stars really want it badly.

But personal recommendations carry more weight the smaller down you get. A personally recommendation might get you a look in in WWE, but in a tiny Indy fed you'll get booked, probably.

3. When i read about Davey Richards signing with ROH for 500 dollars per show, i started thinking about how much independent wrestlers generally cost per show and alternative methods of payment. Ring of Honor has a dvd distribution deal going on which i would think should make up a fair amount of their bottom line. Why do independent wrestlers like Davey Richards, whose name is almost enough to sell a show, opt to receive lump sum payments as opposed to a smaller lump sum and then a percentage of royalty on the show from a larger indy promotion like ROH? I think Davey could have plausibly made more money with royalty checks from purchases of Supercard of Honor 4 (for his show-stealing KENTA vs Richards GHC jr. title bout) than he could have gotten from the lump sum payment he had from the show. I can see where the lump sum payment comes in for the small promotions without distribution deals and survive entirely off ticket sales and merch, who might not even be around next month, but this practice is plausible for the semi-large promotions with distribution deals right?

Yesssss, it's plausible, but any Indy company would be frankly suicidal to offer such a deal beyond big (former) stars doing tiny companies. By all means, if… Honky Tonk Man or Raven or even someone like Davey worked a show for… NWA: Oklahoma, in front of 100 people in an Armory hall, I could see them cutting a deal for $X and Y% of the DVD sale, sure. But for bigger companies, the costs of hiring and renting and distribution mean that your profit margins are thin to begin with, if you then offer percentages to one guy, you'll have a dozen more asking for them, and suddenly your entire profit is gone like that. Especially with ROH right now, whose DVD sales have gone south under Pearce and probably won't come back up for a while.

Running a wrestling company is not a very profitable business, as a rule. Even big companies, the profits aren't huge. Percentages of DVD sales, while being possibly very attractive from the performers POV, aren't gonna be offered by the promoters. It's just too dangerous.

(Plus, most wrestlers will want the security of a fixed fee. Better $500 in the hand than $400 and then $10-200 later on…)

4. ROH sells merch as do other indy promotions. Does ROH produce the merch themselves? if they do, would wrestlers get royalty checks from their likenesses being on the shirt, or does all the profit go straight to ROH? I have heard that Super Dragon makes alot of money selling merch he makes and produces himself. If a wrestler makes their own merch and decides to sell it at a promotion's venue himself, does the promotion still get a cut of it?

In ROH's case, they do seem to make the Merch themselves, and then cut the talent in on them. Although when I say they make the merch themselves, they don't personally sit there and sew them, obviously. But yes, all I could find indicates that ‘Official ROH Whatevers" are made by ROH, like WWE/TNA, and whoever is on them gets a cut.

Wrestlers are often allowed to make and produce and sell merch themselves at a show (I've looked into it myself), and yes, the promoter will take a cut of it, in exchange for the exposure and the rights and often because they'll have a helper there selling it. Of course, sometimes it's not the case, when it's part of the deal. Cornette, for instance, isn't paid much, if at all, by ROH, but instead runs and keeps all the money from his merch table, it's been reported. And certainly, if you're a big name in a small pond, you can easily get a "No profit from my stuff" clause in your agreement.

5. I remember that when Jamie Noble was the crusierweight champ, his story was that the title netted him more money then he was getting without the title. While in the kayfabe world this may be true, in reality, do promotion's champions make more money while they are champion? When they lose the title, do they get to keep their champion wage increase or do they revert back to their previous wage? I want to aim this question more towards independent promotions, as there is an exponentially higher chance that the champion could hold the promotion hostage for more money to drop the belt to someone else, while the promotion has no legal recourse to prevent it under a verbal contract situation.

My pay did not increase or decrease based on my title holding or lack thereof, just my position on the card and in the company, and that's normal. It's not so much if you're holding the title, but where you are on the card. The champion of a company who's a local lad who only works there will, naturally, get paid less than a big name coming in for a one shot deal. Champions bonuses aren't normal, to my knowledge, but it is possible some companies work like that.

And frankly, if you're worried someone might hold you hostage for the title, you probably won't put the belt on them. I mean, it has happened and will happen, people leave for more money all the time, but if you suspect someone's jumping ship, you don't keep a belt on him.

So, no, there is no standard ‘Champions Bonus'.

6. This might be one for your 'my damn opinion' section, but is it possible to have a good standard of living (middle class tax bracket) purely by wrestling for independent promotions without having a 'day job'?

Well, it's not really opinion. Yes, it is, given that people have done it. Danielson took a pay cut, at first, when he signed with WWE, he was making more on the Indy scene than the Developmental contract. Really big names on the Indy scene can, if they work hard, have a decent standard of living. Not a millionaire's life, sure, but it can be done.

7. Between MMA and Pro-wrestling, which career choice is more physically detrimental to an athlete's health? I would assume that a career in pro wrestling is more physically detrimental to an athlete's health because of their schedule, having to take bumps on a regular basis, and a lack of down time to heal. While MMA athletes take more legitimate shots meant to hurt them, i would think that having 1 match every 3 months or so, would be enough time to heal.

How many premature wrestling deaths have their been this year so far? A dozen? 20?

Now how many MMA stars have died?

But, moving away from the bigger picture and the culture, you're asking more about the actual matches. And in that regard, it's MMA, by far. A report from the early 00's showed that for every 100 times a fighter entered the cage, there were 28.6 injuries. Yes, some were just minor cuts to the face, but the fact is that MMA fights are more likely to see you end up hurt in the short term. You're more likely to walk out of the ring than the cage.

But long term, it's reversed, since almost EVERY wrestler who does this for any length of time will have some injury, some pain. I've been very lucky so far, but I've pulled muscles, and my hands are starting to cramp up a bit more than they used to, among other, minor, aliments. Wrestling is not pleasant.

So yeah, MMA is more likely to suffer an immediate injury, but Wrestling's worse on the body, by far.

8. If Pro-wrestling is more brutal to the body than MMA, why do former pro-wrestlers try to do it? Doesn't their years of bodily abuse put them at a disadvantage in a legitimate fight situation?

Depends on how badly banged up they are at the time they switch. Brock Lesnar was only a few years in, and thus had developed the toughness that wrestling gives you, Brock learnt how to handle shock, how to take punishment without the major injuries that follow. Hence, he got some benefits and none of the downside.

Batista, on the other hand, I give as much chance of making it as a Chocolate Kettle. There is no way in hell that his injury attracting body survives past a couple of fights. If he seriously goes after it, he'll end up injured. Again.

But as to their thinking, why they think they can do it, I can't help you, since I know I couldn't. But some people are tough and then they learn to wrestle, not tough because they learnt to wrestle…

8. Who invented the Cattle Mutilation? I'm lead to believe that both Bryan Danielson in the US indies and Michael Modest in Japan started using the move at the same time. Who did it first?

Neither, it was The Great Muta. At least, he's the earliest user I could find, Starrcade 1989, during his match with Sting in the Iron Man Tournament, he busts it out.

He also used The Final Countdown as a theme in 86-88 as ‘Space Lone Wolf', so Danielson's just ripping him off left right and center, huh?

9. I was wondering about the evolution of the contract system in the WWE vs the contract systems in other promotions like NJPW or NOAH in Japan. I believe the WWE has their workers all 100% exclusive to the WWE and do not actively lend out any of their performers to other wrestling promotions for 'learning exchanges' or one-off special promotional matches except in rare instances (Punk in ROH, Funaki in Michinoku Pro, Carlito in WWC). I remember the WWE used to have learning and talent exchanges with NJPW (which lead to Stan Hansen going to Japan), SWS (Tenryu being on the card at Wrestlemania 7), and ECW (with Al Snow being exchanged). Why did they stop this practice when other companies in Japan like NJPW, NOAH have shown that the practice can help invigorate business with an influx of stars from elsewhere, and help groom their future stars without having them being pushed too hard and be rejected or look 'unready' to be the top guys by being sloppy in the ring?

Thanks for answering all my previous questions. Hope you can do these ones too!

At the point when they started running in Japan themselves.



But pretty much it's accurate, really. SWS was because they ran shows together in Japan, Carlito and Primo was due to the family connection, ECW was because Vince had a soft spot for Heyman as has been well established, but basically once WWE went global, they pulled back a lot on the talent exchanges, and now that they are the sole game in town (or at least, the only major player), they don't need anyone's help, so they'll go it alone. Hence the idea for the "WWE: Global Domination" floated a while back, where they'd have a WWE Europe, and a WWE Asia, and so on, was to provide a method to replicate the trading practice thing without having to leave the company.

But they also want to control everything now, they want total control over who does what and how, they don't want people taking stupid risks, they want to shape everyone and everything precisely. Which you can't blame them for, really. You can disagree, but you can't say it's totally illogical.

To all those who complain about how Attitude era WWF was all sex and stuff, I'd like to point out that it's not the worst examples of it out there.


Steve-O asks about Flair in the WWF.

I have a couple of questions regarding Ric Flair's first stint in the WWF.

1. Was Flair/Savage & Hogan/Sid the original plan for Wrestlemania 8, and did Hogan's "retirement" have anything to do with it?

No, it wasn't Hogan's retirement, it was the fact that Flair and Hogan worked a house show circuit and didn't sell out. That's it. They didn't draw sell outs, so Vince went with plan B. The fact that Hogan was ‘retiring' certainly affected the card order, but not the matches. Flair V Hogan didn't happen for the same reason Hogan V Roberts didn't happen, the crowds didn't come/react the right way.

2. What were the circumstances behind Flair leaving the WWF (retirement match with Mr. Perfect on RAW)? Was his contract up with WWF or was there more involved? Did this play a role in getting the WWF title off him and on Bret Hart?

Thanks

There's a few things at play. His contract was coming up for review, and the WWF was, at the time, heading for new blood, the New Generation and such, and Flair was probably not going to be on top. And, the fact that he loved being there in the WWF, he regained the self-worth and confidence that WCW had beat out of him last time. And thus… He was oh so cocky now. And he felt that he should still be on top, and WCW could do that. Plus, at the time, Ole Anderson was in charge in WCW, and since Ole was an old friend, he'd be pushed to the moon, surely…

Of course, it didn't work out so well for him, but at the time, he felt he was gonna be paid more to main event the company run by a good friend. Why wouldn't he jump ship?

As for the Hart/Flair title change…



This was a combination of about half a dozen things falling into place at once. The Ultimate Warrior was the guy most likely to win the title next, and was working a program with Flair. But then, a few days before the fateful title switch, in one of their matches, he injured Flair, giving Flair nerve damage in the ear. So now Flair would be out for a month or so to heal up. And thus, they decided to switch the title off him. But not to Warrior, since he injured Flair and was not paying off. Savage was going through a divorce at the time and was thus needing time off. Razor Ramon wasn't in a position to win the title yet, nor was Shawn Michaels, Yokozuna was just coming in, Hogan wasn't anywhere to be seen… So Bret Hart was basically just the right guy in the right place at the right time. It well have hastened Flair's departure, but it wasn't because he was leaving.

Dirty Dan has two questions, one here, one elsewhere.

1.) With wrestlers always putting themselves and others in serious danger with moves, there is always bound to be a botch up that can seriously damage/kill someone. Besides freak accidents that costs some wrestlers their lives, has there ever been a wrestler who legitamitely killed their opponent in the ring with a botched up move?

Well, there have been 4 in ring caused deaths in Japan, but I'm not sure you can call them botches. Masakazu Fukuda, Plum Mariko, Emiko Kado and Mitsuharu Misawa all died in ring (or near enough), but none were due to a botched move. Likewise, other in ring deaths tend to be of natural casues that flaired up because of the wrestling, not because of a botched move (Gary Albright, ‘Iron' Mike DiBiase and Larry Latham, all suffered heart attacks, or the Owen Hart incident). There is also the incident with The Great Khali and the death of Brian Ong due to a flapjack taken with a Concussion, but that was in training.

However, a few have happened in ring during a match. Malcolm Kirk died after a Giant Splash from Big Daddy, but that probably falls under the heart condition list and not a botch. Oro was a Mexican luchadore on the rise when, in a 6 man tag match, he botched a Kobashi Bump, taking a clothesline by landing on his head and neck, which probably gave him a brain aneurysm.

But the only true ‘Botch' related death I found was Daniel Quirk, and it's an odd one. He was on the outside of the ring, and his opponent, Hi-Lite Kid, went for a Piscada, a standing leap over the top rope. But Kid's feet got caught, and Quirk tried to protect him and thus caught him at an odd angle. Kid's ribs landed on Quirk's head, and they went down, all of Kid's weight driving Quirk's head into the concrete floor (there were no mats). He thusly died from this impact.

So there you go. I'm all depressed now, let's try and find something less serious to answer.

Ah, Adam, you'll do.

Myself and a few friends were discussing missed matches, matches which could have happened (same company, heel vs face) but didn't for whatever reason, we restricted ourselves to pairings that would have created great matches and/or drawn heavily. This is the list we could come up with, are there any tv or ppv single matches with these combinations?

Bradshaw Vs Edge

OK History Of WWE, let's get to work.

Note: For all the following, I'm just going to search until I find one, at which point I stop looking.

Well, they did team in mid-99, and have a fair few tag matches, but as far as singles competition…

July 10th, 2000, Raw: WWF Tag Team Champion Edge (w/ Christian) pinned Bradshaw (w/ Farooq) at 3:01 after hitting him with the time keeper's bell.

Hulk Hogan Vs Dusty Rhodes

Well, in 1981 or so, Hogan did team with Stan Hanson to wrestle Dusty Rhodes and Antonio Inoki in Japan…




And they did actually have a singles match, 1981/05/25 Saga - Sports Center
Rhodes beating Hogan by count out. Not strictly TV or PPV, but hey. They never fought in WWF, or WCW.

Kurt Angle Vs Dean Malenko

Nope, sadly, we never got this match at all.

Sabu Vs Jeff Hardy

Well, there's plenty of multi man matches in TNA history with these two involved in 04-06, teaming or interfering or being 2 out of 4 men.

But by the looks of it, Monsters Ball 2 is as close as your gonna get.




They never crossed paths in WWE.

Rhyno Vs Hardcore Holly



Bret Hart Vs Ricky Steamboat

Prime Time Wrestling Baby!




Ahmed Johnson Vs Vader

Actually, Vader handed Ahmed Johnson his first ever TV loss, in the 1996 KOTR tournament.




Roddy Piper Vs Sgt Slaughter

Well, they feuded in Mid-Atlantic, and they had at least one match in WWF (June 29, 1991: Roddy Piper defeated Sgt. Slaughter via disqualification when Gen. Adnan interfered), but on TV… Nope. They never got their match, far as I can tell.

James asks about a certain move.

Hey Matt! I've been a fan of this site since the old 411wrestling green and black days and ask 411 has been one of my favorite columns. I think you are one of the best if not the best to do it. Anyway, not sure if this is more opinion or fact but I'm trying to figure out the logic of a move. I'm not sure what it's called but when smaller/lucha/cruiser weight guys are thrown into the ropes and they come off the ropes and jump towards the opponent with their legs spread and facing down so that they end up with their legs around the opponent, (Rey does this a lot) What are they trying to do? Usually the opponent will lift them up to slam them on the mat unless it is reversed into a bulldog or arm drag or something. So what are they trying to pull in the first place? and why would the opponent not just hit them in the back given the fact that picking them up to slam them gets reversed more often than not? Sorry for the longwindedness (I say it's a word), but I thought your wrestling knowledge could help. Keep up the good work!

Well, the move is (slightly confusingly) called a Body Scissors. It's the first part in this video.



As for what they are trying for, depends on the wrestler. Some are looking for the bulldog, others want a modified rolling cradle.



Or a rana, or a straight knock over into a cover. The main point is that, for most of these moves, if someone pulled them off, you'd be very, very hurt. If anyone managed to flip over while in that position, like a Code Red, you'd land right on your head. And that's bad.

So, like most wrestling moves, the logic is that while yes, there are counters that make sense, in the heat of battle, you're more thinking "Oh god, avoid the deadly thing, avoid the deadly thing… Damm, got bulldogged." And/or they are trying to cover, the other guy's just too damm quick.

My Damm Opinion

David gets moved up because I want to discuss something he asks about.

Quick question: Does anyone mention how Powerhouse Theo kinda looks
like the guy from Masterchef Australia?

… Not really, since we're all slightly scared of him. Well, I'm not, but we're not sure how he'd take that sort of thing.

Main question: Does "Creative" have the most thankless job in the world, since it seems they cannot please anyone? You'd think wrestling's perception has returned to the 'guilty pleasure', hence such hate for "Creative" by the IWC.

This has been brought up by various people, and you are right on one level. I don't think anyone, deep down, hates or despises the people currently part of the WWE Creative Team (outside of the few people know, Steph, Vince etc). It's more a hatred/dislike of the product they present. And really, it's not automatically their fault. We have no way of knowing that what they write is what they want to write, what they think is great. It's just what Steph/Vince etc want, it's what THEY like. So blaming ‘Creative' for an overly long, unfunny Khali/Guest Host segment isn't really fair, in terms of spitting on any one Creative Team Member in the street, but it's more the process and the result does not jive with what the average IWC fan wants. But then, the IWC can't agree on anything, so who knows…

You mentioned in your last column how a Rankings System took away from
the 'anyone can win' feel of wrestling. I believe you can use a Ranking System to help "Creative" build/accentuate stories, in the absence of a good idea for a wrestler (never a good idea if the IWC is to be believed), so I shall give one possible scenario and its offshoots.

After No Surrender, the new TNA Champion (Assume Kurt Angle) is advised of the new Rankings. Stories that can be used to build feuds:

- Who Angle defeated is #1 Contender, other semi-finalists have match on Impact for #2 and #3 rankings.
- Abyss on 90-day Suspension, removed from Top 10.
- Flair wants Lethal out of Top 10. Uses Fortune to make that happen.
- Use Top 10 Qualifiers to further EV2.0 vs Fortune, since TNA are focused on it, and use history to compliment other movements. Get Kazarian and Doug Williams fighting Rhino and Sabu for spots. Shock result is Dreamer at #5 due to beating Styles at No Surrender. Morgan surprise entry by taking out Hernandez again.
- Do SOMETHING with Samoa Joe dammit!! Have him pay respect to Angle
and say Kurt inspired him, and he shall do the same with the people
above him in the Rankings to get his Title shot.

There are possibilities, but it all boils down to how "Creative" the company can be. But, as you see almost every day on the IWC, they cannot do anything right.

Still reckon you should nick Jay's vanity Title as revenge ;)

Well, sadly he doesn't carry that one round with him, so no deal on that.

And this is the bit I wanted to clarify: I get ranking systems. I totally understand that they provide a whole lot of new storyline angles, and I can see the appeal, and I don't blame anyone for trying it.

It's just that I tend to find that wrestling fans, wrestlers and bookers themselves, are impacted and affected by what was going on at the time they came in. Wrestlers who grew up watching the Steamboat/Savage war as the best angle ever are different than those who came in idolising the Hardys.

It's not an issue over what they were watching when they still believed it was real or anything, but I feel that what you come in with colors how you view wrestling. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, it's just a thing. And I came in with Attitude, with the nWo, I came in with Russo V Bischoff. And no matter how much I track down and watch and appreciate and love the 4 Horsemen, and the Flair/Steamboat war, and Hulkamania and early ECW and current day ROH… The Russo mindset is there, and it plays a part in what I think of as wrestling.

Thusly, I tend to think and write wrestling as being… Chaotic, I suppose. I don't tend to think of wrestling as ordered, as a sport, more a free for all.

But to repeat: I don't think ranking systems suck, or that they can't work, it's just I personally don't like them, and probably wouldn't use them myself. But I don't begrudge anyone from doing them. OK?

Travis also gets bumped ahead based on the recent passing of his subject.

Going back and watching Luna videos, I admit I was too young to really get it at the time although I was a fan. I must say now that Luna was brilliant! Giving how her problems are coming to light now, how much of that gimmick was professional artistry, and how much was her "issues"? And on a related note, why did Medusa always come across as snobby? I noticed her progression from horrible to decent during her Luna battles, but she always seemed to think she was better than everything going on.

Actually, it might not have been ‘issues' but actual, proper issues. Back in 2008, Luna revealed that she was "bi-polar and medically diagnosed as being manic depressive", which would help explain some things. But then, her first angles and feuds in the business were with Kevin Sullivan, right in the middle of his Satanist period, which although she wasn't fond of, did shape her career somewhat. But then so did being a Vachon, seeing her stepfather and his brother as a kid, seeing how they worked the crowd and made the fans so angry, that drove her to follow in their footsteps. So it seemed it was a combination of a variety of things.

As for Madusa, or Alundra Blayze as she was known at the time… I dunno really what to say here. The two had actually been working together for years prior to the WWF, feuding in TWA in 89-91, so it wasn't like this was some new woman that she hated working with. I can't really see… snobby, although I suppose her disgust and dislike of Luna being all crazy and such might come across as snobby, I can buy that. And certainly she wasn't exactly thrilled with the WWF's handling of the women's division, they brought her in to rebuild and then she had to go and ask for competition since she had none. So perhaps her frustration at not having high quality opponents also leaked through.

Jones has two quick questions.

First, you know how when a lot of old timers are interviewed they talk about what a leader and presence Andre was in the locker room, do you think that 10 years from now, people will say the same thing about Taker?

Sure. I mean, they are saying that now, so I don't see what will change in 10 years. Although part of it will depend on what happens after he leaves for good. If the locker room quietly shifts to another orderly situation where Cena's the main leader, Orton's the ideas man and HHH is the boss (say), then he'll be spoken of well, but not with total reverence. On the other hand, if the locker room descends into anarchy, then by all means, he'll be revered, since when he left, the place fell apart.

second, the WWE has washed their hands of a certain deceased Canadian wrestler, because of his actions, and for good reason, but isn't it hypocritical that they have employed members of the Colon family, considering in the late 80's they were responsible for a guy getting stabbed to death?

Thanks

Well, not really.

The stabbing is the death of Bruiser Brody, for the record.

First of all, you can't blame two men who were 9 and 6 at the time for something they had no part in. Secondly, their father didn't actually do the deed himself, which gives them another layer of distance. Plus it happened in another company, another country, and thus they don't have a PR disaster as opposed to their former World Champion and at the time major star.

Let me be clear that in no way shape or form am I condoning, forgiving or in any way trying to make excuses for the murder of Bruiser Brody. That was a horrible act, and the fact that José González got away with it is a horrible thing. But to blame Carlito and Primo for it… That's pushing it.

Dirty Dan is back to finish us off this week.

2.) If you could create a new promotion with any wrestler not currently under any sort contract with TNA & WWE, what would it look like and who would be on top?

It'd be called Pro Wrestling 3.0

*quarter Chandler*

Well, really, I'd probably take the top half of CHIKARA, the core of ROH and the most charismatic from Dragon's Gate and form a company that's serious, to a point. One that has some sense of humor but is still a place for great wrestling.

On top, would be Kevin Steen. I'd probably have him, the Kings of Wrestling, Corino, Haze and Del Rey, a couple of lackeys as the main heel stable (Gods Of Wrestling?) vs. Eddie Kingston, Quackenbush, Cabana, Generico and Dragon Kid. Jimmy Jacobs would be the crazy psycho, The American Wolves would be feuding with the Briscoes, and I'd be the guy who loses in 30 seconds in opening matches.

But what about you guys? Who would you have on top?