Ask 411 Wrestling 02.16.11: Powerbombing Women, Taking Steriods, KAZOOS!

Hello, and welcome to a rare spot of respite from the Epic Storm Of Awesome surrounding that guy who came back this week, Ask 411 Wrestling! I am Mathew Sforcina, and I’ll try and make sure this week’s edition of Ask 411 Wrestling has no mention of that 3rd generation guy who just made his return, so that you can calm down a little and recover. It’s a public service to you, my kind readers.

Although if you do need more time to recover, probably a good idea not to listen to the Tom Tom Club this week. I wager there will be plenty of talk about That Guy there.

Oh, and sorry, but I can’t take him out of the banner, so… Just cover your eyes or something.

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Backtalking

‘My’ Wrestlemania Card: No, I wouldn’t pay 60 bucks for that. But we weren’t discussing what would be the best possible card, and/or what I would book, but what I thought they were booking. And of course, it’s now shot to hell slightly… And I made picks a while back, sure. And they sucked, outside of calling Edge V Del Rio.

Owen’s ‘Retirement’: Man, I forgot that part of the whole angle, thanks dude.

Perm Heels/Faces: Actually, Rude may have been a face in ECW, depends on your viewpoint. APinOz had some suggestions-

Tully Blanchard: Started as a face with his dad in Southwest Championship Wrestling.

Magnum TA: … You may have a point. Not sure, he did travel around a bit as he started out…

Bobo Brazil: Another good suggestion, although I believe he may have worked Heel in Japan…

The Sheik: He worked face in ECW I believe, feuding with Tazz and Kevin Sullivan.

The Iron Sheik: He started out face. Plus, today, who could hate him?

Junkyard Dog: … I believe you have something there too.

Long Matches: And APinOz also made me aware of another long match, to whit:

In 1987(?), Antonio Inoki and Tiger Jeet Sing fought in something called a “Jungle Island Death Match” which actually started on some island and ended in a ring and went for about 4 hours. I have a video (edited highlights) of this abortion.

Well, I trust you, and don’t want to see it.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Who am I? I was the first man to beat a certain Japanese Sumo Wrestler. I debuted in Canada as a heel. I fought for both the WWWF and NWA World Heavyweight Titles. I had my arm broken by a WWE Hall of Famer. I played a part in a pivotal moment in Mick Foley’s career. And my son was a HORRIBLE wrestler. Who am I?

This one threw some people, apparently. Good. Eric did have it right though.

You are Tiger Jeet Singh.

You began your career in Toronto as a heel, then came to America, challenging Gene Kiniski for the NWA World Title and Bruno Sammartino for the WWWF World Title. You had your arm broken in a match in Japan by WWE Hall of Famer Antonio Inoki. You played a pivotal part in Mick Foley’s career by helping him defeat Terry Funk in the finals of the IWA Japan King of the Deathmatch tournament, thus helping Foley achieve his “King of the Deathmatch” moniker he’s used throughout his career. And lastly, your son, Tiger Ali Singh, is a horrible wrestler…but quite frankly, you weren’t all that good yourself.

Although Lord Darias then added the extra bit, Plus the Sumo he beat was 14 time champion Wojima…

Who am I? I once managed That Guy we’re not mentioning, at least for one match. I’ve appeared in several Botchamanias. I only ever held gold in one company, although I’ve held a title in another. I’ve been an on air authority figure, and aligned with world champions. I’ve tapped to the Ankle Lock, and I was in the Alliance. Who am I?

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?

Brian starts us off with an Invasion.

No, not that one.

I recently watched a shoot interview with Eddie Gilbert. In the interview, Gilbert said that Ross was more concerned with taking Tony Schiavone’s spot on WCW, than he was in making sure the UWF guys had a spot in the NWA. Gilbert also said Dusty promised an invasion angle, but Ric Flair was the one who killed it (in a side note Steve Williams says the same thing in another shoot). It seems that conventional IWC wisdom has it that Dusty ruined the UWF invasion because of his ego, but Gilbert and Williams blame Ross and, especially, Flair. Have you ever heard anybody else suggest that Ross and/or Flair were in Crockett’s ear burying the UWF?

Funny, I thought conventional IWC wisdom was that it was all Crockett’s fault, that he had to prove he was better and such, I thought the IWC went and blamed it on the boss, with Dusty just following orders. That said, I don’t know, nor could I find, anyone blaming Flair or Ross about it. Almost everyone I found who spoke on it blamed Crockett, or maybe Dusty, since he was booker. Of course, I’m sure Dusty SAID they’d do an invasion angle…

But if anyone has other info on this, I’m eager to be corrected.

In the same shoot, he talks about his tenure as booker in Global and mentions a guy named “Gordon” who wanted him to book “AWF”. Anyway, the deal fell through and one day Jeff Gaylord came looking for a job in GWF and when Gilbert turned his back, Gaylord jumped him. According to Gilbert, Gordon paid Gaylord to beat him up. Do you know anything about Gordon and the AWF in general and this fight specifically?

The Gordon in question is Gordon Scozzari, who actually passed away at the beginning of January this year, aged 40, of complications from kidney disease, which he had been fighting for many years. The AWF was the American Wrestling Federation, the first time a company was formed with those initials. (There were a few since then).

The company formed in 1991 when Gordon either inherited some money and/or made some money on the stock market (the story changes), and decided to form a wrestling company. The company ran, briefly, in late 1991 and had TV tapings in New Jersey and Washington. Unfortunately, the tapings went badly, with several things going wrong (TV cameras didn’t turn up, pyro was missed, some guys couldn’t work or weren’t allowed to by the State Commish, guys bailed on shows despite being paid) and it ended up folding. He was very upset, given that he had tried very hard to make a promotion that ran things differently, but he got treated like some shmuck who didn’t know what he was doing, and people just looked out for themselves. He tried several times to get into the business, but had a run of bad luck.

Gilbert’s a special case, in that he was set to book for the company. Gilbert did not attend the tapings, and according to Gordon, this was despite Eddie being paid in advance. Gordon was quite hurt about this, and did, supposedly, pay Jeff Gaylord to beat him up.

As for the ‘fight’, it did happen according to other sources, but no-one was really hurt and it didn’t go anywhere.

Sadly wrestling is filled with stories like this, of people who have big dreams and who put in the cash but get used by the boys.

It’s also filled with stories of money marks who think they have a clue how the business is run and expect to become rich beyond their dreams by making a wrestling show that they don’t understand.

The truth tends to be somewhere in the middle.

Eric had a few questions.

Hi Ask 411mania wrestling

I just got done watching Tony Schiavone turn heel and rant on Paul Bearer, Goldylocks and Mike Tenay. My first question is does Tony have real life heat with Mike Tenay now that Tenay is the voice of TNA, and Tony Schiavone out of wrestling? My second question is how come Tony Schiavone is not working in the wrestling industry? Is it money, position? Or a combination of both?

If you don’t recall Tony’s appearance in TNA, let me remind you.

OK, as far as there being real heat between the two, not really. Tony has a rep of being a man who looks out for himself, but is at least personable while doing it, but I don’t know of honest heat between the two.

As for why Tony’s not in the business now, it’s basically money. He’s happily retired from the business, as he has a couple of radio jobs, he runs a radio production company, and is a play by play guy for Atlanta baseball. He doesn’t miss the business, and is making enough cash staying put and calling baseball.

Now, at the time, it was said that Tony didn’t stick around because, quote, ‘Mike didn’t sell enough for him’, which sounds stupid but I believe has some small logic in it, in that I’m sure had Tony’s return and worked shoot promo actually gotten over, had the ‘feud’ started off hot, they probably would have worked out a deal to continue it, but since it didn’t work out, it’s now just a coda to Tony’s career.

Which, to be fair to him, wasn’t all “GREATEST NIGHT IN OUT SPORT!” When he didn’t have Bischoff in his ear (and, maybe, when he had the passion) Tony was a damm good commentator. Maybe not God Tier, but a strong Upper-Mid. You could do worse than Tony. But of course, now he’s not coming back, and more power to him, if he’s happy. But then, there was this other guy who NO BAD!

Also, there was another rant, this time by Don West when they brought in Taz to take his spot on impact, (A major upgrade if you ask me). Does Don West have real heat with Tenay or TNA, because doing the merchandise gig is probably a real demotion from being in the broadcast booth. I guess I am asking on both questions, how much of that is a work and how much of that is a real shoot, it seems so real on you tube.

For those of you who didn’t see this one either…

Although this was actually several months before Taz replaced him, this was Feb 26, 2009, while he was replaced on August 17th. This was another worked shoot, although one that was almost all work. While Don might have some borderline issue with Tenay, that was strictly to turn him heel so they could go back to a heel/face dynamic on commentary. And it worked, at least in most people’s eyes. Or ears. West as a heel really worked. But then when Taz came on, while he began as Samoa Joe’s manager, that was just to get him comfortable, until such time as they then added him to the booth. While they did think of a 3 man booth, TNA eventually went with Tenay/Tazz, because, apparently, Dixie liked Don as a person but not really as an announcer. Which, again, was a shame, since he actually hade a great heel.

However, while you might think working in merch is a step down, in terms of importance it’s probably a step up. He’s actually TNA’s merch and sales manager, which is a very important post in any company. And is a very good fit for him, given his past as a salesman. Because if there’s one thing West can do, it’s sell stuff.

Why didnt the Dynamite Kid ever wrestle for WCW or Mid-Atlantic or NWA in general after being released by the WWE or even before? Did Crockett and Ole Anderson and other bookers know about him? Is it because of his reputation?

Dynamite Kid went straight from Stampede to WWF due to the WWF buying Stampede, and he came as part of the deal (or at least, the deal made sure of it). After he left the WWF, he went back to Canada, and more importantly, Japan. He and Smith had sweet deals in Japan, getting paid a lot of money by Giant Baba to wrestle for All Japan, on whatever shows they wanted. Then Davey Boy secretly cut a deal with the WWF to come back without Kid, which really pissed him off, splitting the two apart.

But it seems to be just an issue of the other companies, perhaps, being wary of him/not sure how valuable he was in the states by himself, coupled with the fact that he made a lot more money in Japan for less work. But once again, I will happily be corrected if someone has proof.

Adam has a bunch of questions.

Long time reader, yadda, yadda, thanks for answering, blah blah, best thing on 411mania, yak yak.

Now to the questions

1) In the late 1980s there was a referee in the WWF called Dean Malenko, is this THE Dean Malenko or just a ref with a similar name?

Yep, that’s THE Dean Malenko. Dean, like many second generation stars, began as a ref, giving him a way to watch and learn and experience the business without having to actually learn how to wrestle/bump. Sadly I couldn’t find video/images, but that was him.

2) During the main event of Wrestlemania 13 The Undertaker defeated Sid, during the match Bret interfered three times to cost Sid the match, considering that Sid was on his way out of the company and Bret didn’t get a title shot at the Undertaker until Summerslam what was the reasoning behind protecting Sid so much?

It wasn’t so much to protect Sid as it was to firmly establish that Bret Hart was a very bad person. By having him run out constantly interfering, it firmly established that he had snapped, was now a bad person who you should boo. And it was only 2 times, the first time was just Bret cutting a promo to solidify his evilness.

Plus it made sense, given that Sid was the guy who ‘screwed’ him out of the title belt, so he would be upset at him and cost him the title. But it wasn’t protecting Sid, just further putting over Bret.

3) Did Randy Savage bring Elizabeth into wrestling after they were together or was she already a manager because I can’t find anything on her career before 1985.

Sort of. She began her career as a TV host for International Championship Wrestling, which was the promotion owned and run by Randy’s father, Angelo Poffo. As Liz Hulette, she hosted their TV shows and did backstage interviews, and it was there she met Randy and the two fell in love, getting married in late 1984. She then debuted in the WWF, alongside Randy, in 1985, as they had Randy being courted and wooed by various managers, before he finally picked one…

And the rest is history.

4) What is the reasoning behind bumping announced PPV matches to the pre-show when the PPVs themselves feature long filler segments and/or end early? Some of the worst examples are Wrestlemania 12 (finals of the tag title tournament), IYH:It’s Time (Rocky Maivia/Salvatore Sincere, the blow-off of the Jim Cornette/Rock feud), Survivor Series 2002 (Goldust/Hurricane Vs Storm/Regal) and perhaps the most hated one Wrestlemania 19 (Tag Title match Morley/Storm Vs RVD/Kane) which featured 2 main eventers and blew off a long running storyline involving the Dudleys.

Sorry if the last one was rather long winded.

Thanks

Depends. Normally though, it’s a case of the booker deciding that the long filler segments are more important to the PPV as a whole than the matches. You do have to consider a PPV as a show, not just a collection of individual matches. And that leads to, occasionally, having to remove a match and put it on the preshow in order to make sure that the show is good, giving people time to recover and such.

Also, putting ‘big’ matches on the pre-show can be seen as a sales pitch, a way to try and entice those last minute buys. Put a good match on there, then indicate many more, better matches, await on PPV, buy it now!

And sometimes bookers are morons. That happens too.

TaZZ (No, not him.) has a few questions.

Hey, bro…get column as always! Here’re some questions….

1) What’s Solofa Fatu up to nowadays? Haven’t seen/heard anthing outta him since that Hulkamania tour where he reunited with Scotty…Rikishi’s stuff w HHH was better than it deserved to be!

Not much, apparently. I couldn’t find any info on him since Hulkamania. But he does still have an Alumni page on WWE.com, so who knows, he’s still on friendly terms with them…

2) Do you remember/know anything about a ‘Corporal Punishment’ match back in the ’80s b/t Midnight Express and the RnR Express?? Sounded like the coolest concept back then…but I was, like, 10 or 12 yrs old. 🙂

I know there was one between the RnR Express and The Freebirds at Capital Combat 1990.

The idea of the match was simple enough, you’re average tag match, but everyone had a leather strap they could use how they like. I couldn’t find any record of a Corporal Punishment match between the Expresses.

3)And, I realize these last 2 questions are pretty random, but do you know how many/what type of different gimmick matches Magnum T.A. and Nikita had?? Those guys were probably my favorites from the ’80s but Flair and Steamboat are close!

Thanks!

OK…

*fires up HistoryofWWE.com*

Standard Match
Lumberjack Match
Steel Cage Match
Russian Chain Match
Tag Match
6 Man Tag Match
6 Man Tag Team Steel Cage Match
Texas Death Match

And that’s it. Not that many, but that’s only a few months…

I’ve been accused of putting in far too many ‘in-jokes’. Well, would someone who posts too many in jokes post this?

Oh, wait, they would. Damm. Uh… MV Zone Goodness!

#1Punker here has two similar questions.

I was looking at some Lita videos on YouTube and I found the one where Eddie powerbombed her onto the mat. I remember when this happen and watching it again it looks very painful. I rrecall Lita was with Essa Rios at the time and she was fairly new in the WWE. The powerbomb looked wicked. Did Eddie get into any trouble with WWE for powerbombing her so hard? Was it meant to be stiff so it would look good on tv?

No, if anything Lita got complimented on taking it. If a diva lets herself get thrown about like that, she gets props from the boys, and gains some respect in the back. Trish got a lot when she got powerbombed through the table by Bubba…

Likewise, Lita (I imagine, I couldn’t find proof on this one) would have got complimented from the boys upon taking that. Had she not wanted to, they would have done something else (Eddie puts her down then boots her or something), but by taking that vicious bump, she got props. Eddie was fine.

Also, I remember back when Victoria was powerbombed through a table by the Goodfather during the Save the Hos campaign. I can’t find the video but I remember it also being pretty wicked looking as well. Did the Goodfather get into any trouble?

Thanks

Actually, I could find it. Skip ahead to 5 minutes in.

But again, Victoria probably got props, and Goodfather didn’t get punished, since she chose to take the bump, and it looked great.

Nick has two questions.

Hi , love the work you do. I got two questions:

1) When did wrestlers in WWE stop doing their opponents’ finishers on them? I recall the last time to be around 2002-2003, especially in the Taker-Rock-Angle match, were all of them were busting out the others’ finishers. But now, they don’t do that anymore? Is there a reason?

There’s a few minor issues, but there’s one major one.

Basically, the “Everyone hitting everyone’s finishers on everyone” is/was Kurt Angle’s MO. It’s what he loves to do in big matches. Not that it’s a bad thing or a good thing, it’s just a thing, he seems to LOVE that sort of spot. Plus he, and those he was wrestling with at the time, were good enough to be able to bust out everyone’s finishers. And then when Kurt left, that motif became less prominent and now it rarely happens in WWE.

Like how matches are no longer brawls, partly because Austin’s gone.

2) What was the deal with Vickie and Chavo and wat Benoit called ‘Eddie’s estate’? I don’t seem to recall any finality to that storyline, at least regarding Eddie’s estate? Was Chavo supposed to win the US title in kayfabe terms so vickie could get the inheritance? Whats up?

Thanks for your help man! Keep up the great work!

Yeah, there wasn’t any. It kinda just got lost in the shuffle with Benoit hitting Vickie and her constant interference costing Chavo the US title. It didn’t go anywhere and wasn’t explained. You know, like a lot of stuff in the WWE.

By all means, if anyone knows where it was going, tell me…

My Damm Opinion

This week, Wylun has us covered.

so i have a couple of questions…

1. i dont know if this has already been brought up.. (im sure it has) but do you believe that the wwe has shrunken the World Heavyweight title at different times, according to who is wearing it.. especially compared to the WCW world championship.. i remember wen Triple H had the offical wwe version, it looked just as big as the Big gold belt of WCW.. and it looked pretty decently big on him… but as years went on.. when someone like. edge or jeff hardy, (people much smaller than triple H) had the belt.. it looked just as same scale to them compared to when triple h had the belt…. meaning that if triple h had the belt.. he got a bigger version.. then if jeff hardy had the belt, he got a smaller version.. etc..

I don’t think they’ve gone back and forth with it, no. They’ve redesigned it, yes, and it’s slightly smaller than the original versions, it has slowly gotten smaller over every new design and refit, but outside of maybe not wanting Rey to look dwarfed in it, I don’t think it was motivated by HHH to make people look silly or anything. I could see some logic in the idea of having different versions for different guys, but I don’t think they are doing that. Certainly it’s not widely talked about if they do.

2. do you think the wwe will eventually get rid of the WWE spinner championship belt? i kno they make alot of money off it from kids etc. however i do believe it is due for a much more prestigious looking belt… i find myself liking the TNA world championship belt alot more than the WWE’s.. if anything the WWE’s undisputed belt was probably my favorite belt next to the winged eagle..

Damm straight. I LOVED the Undisputed title belt. That thing was awesome. The day WWE stopped using Reggie Parks, that was the day WWE belts started to suck.

Anyway, will the WWE get rid of the Spinner belt? Yes, eventually. I mean, every belt changes eventually. But I wouldn’t expect it in the near future, even if they reunified the belts, they’d keep that one, sadly. It’s become generic enough that anyone can wear it and you don’t think Cena, and that ‘Bling’ style is still in. So until Bling is out, and Cena does his super heel turn, expect the belt to remain.

Seriously, I expect the belt to end up being taken out by Cena. Have him renounce his former ways, and smash the belt live on Raw. Will be glorious.

3. past vs present.. as you have noticed in both WWE and TNA wrestling, there is of course new talent and new storyline.. (or semi new) and as years go on,there are new viewers, and younger viewers.. but when it come to new viewers… possibly kids ranging from i guess 5yrs – 15yrs old.. do u think any of them know anything about older wrestlers or story lines that happened 10+ yrs ago? for example.. do alot of kids really kno who The Rock or Steve Austin are? do they even kno who Paul Bearer is? from this do you think wen the WWE bring back such talents from along time ago and have them on the air to satisfy the older viewers.. there are many and a good percentage of viewers that have no idea who they are.. do you think this hurts the WWE.. or doesnt really matter?.. i would really like to get your input on such things because i find it interesting when like the Rock gets brought up or something and you see kids in the crowd who either just sit there and dont know who they are.. or you get 5 year olds who are like cheering their heads off.. but in reality they probably weren’t even born yet or too young during the Attitude era to even kno who he was.. which i find weird of why they are going so crazy .. i mean its been 6 years since the rock has left the wwe.. most kids who dominate the wwe viewership are 5-15… you kno wat im getting at?

…

Dammit. Well, I got close.

Anyway, I could point to the return of The Rock proving that people DO remember him, but then you’re main point still holds.

That said, I think there’s a difference between ‘remembering’ and ‘knowing’. People tend to treat kids as morons, but, while I’m sure some kids are pretty slow, most of them do have pretty good grasp of things they are interested in. I think, if/when they get into wrestling, they do pick up older facts, but they don’t know them instinctivly, the details are blurry and, more importantly, they have no emotional attachment to them.

Take the Edge/Christian relationship for instance. Your average kid probably knows, from trivia contests or chats or more likely, Smackdown V Raw 2011, that Edge and Christian are former tag partners and have held the tag belts several times. They might even know of TLC.

But they don’t have the same emotional attachment that us older fans have. They hear E&C, they think of titles, a tag team. We hear of E&C, we think of Kazoos.

Now, is constantly calling back to the past a bad thing? Yes and no. I think if WWE suddenly had, let’s say… Katie Vick’s long lost brother appear (which was once on the cards), and have him attack Kane, and just assumed people would get it, then that’ll turn people off and will end up costing you viewers. But if you bring back a long call back like that, but then explain it while you do so, when he comes in you explain who he is and who Katie Vick is… Well then you’ll turn viewers off anyway since you’re bring back Katie Vick, but the basic idea is sound.

As good an idea/call back is, you need to make sure everyone gets it. You always have to have a good explanation for things. You need to explain things for the new guys, children or otherwise. And you need to give them an emotional attachment as well.

You can do a call back, you just need a current connection as well.

4. i hadn’t discovered 411mania back during the WWF’s Attitude era, so i was wondering if you can give me a average of what the WWF/WWE’s televisions ratings where like back then.. and also when brock lesnar was around at his prime as WWE champ… cuz i kno raw draws in about 3.0-3.3’s at average now and smackdown does about 2.0’s.. (however i do kno that these averages are not the same as it was years ago..) but i just wanted to kno how much of a difference in viewers have changed in the pass years..

Well, I can give you a graph with the entire Monday Night Wars in ratings form, which would be here. That’ll give you the ratings for Raw during that time.

That said, someone has gone to the trouble of making a graph with all the ratings put in so you can see the changes over time, but JP Prag has left us, and thus, I’m gonna try and put up his doc here now…

That was the data up to Nov 10th, 2010. Thanks Prag, wherever you are.

Probably sitting on a pile of jewels while a few bronzed beach babes fan you with gold bars or something.

5. last but not least.. how do you think wrestlers keep in such good shape with out taking steroids or some kind of PED… i kno the WWE has a wellness program.. but its very hard to believe wen you see these wrestlers who are all cut and huge.. you have to take in the fact of their schedules.. in a span of 7 days.. these guys are performing 1-2′ days .. then traveling could take 2-3 days.. that could leave them 1-2 days to work out.. and even also considering the physical damage they do on themselves during shows. and being tired.. how do they find the will to be able to work out so intensely.. the reason i say this is b/c work out pretty much 4-5 times a week and probably dont have nearly the same kind of work/traveling schedule as they do, yet these guys are shhhhreeedded! i mean look at john cena.. that kind of body must take a insane amount of time and energy to maintain throughout the course of a year.. and given his time schedule…how does he do it! unless the elite of the wwe rosters dont get tested.. which im not surprised…or they take alllot of pain killers.. which is very common i’ve heard.. lol your opinion?

thanks alot!

It has been shown that WWE superstars do purchase items that they shouldn’t be, items of a chemical nature, so one could easily say that they can’t, and leave it at that.

But, given that I have said I believe Cena’s clean, I’ll explain myself and argue the case.

Basically, most Pro Wrestlers are mesomorphic, in that they are the type of people genetically predisposed to putting on muscle and keeping fat off. Then they train. Hard. And while that does build up the body, it also teaches them how best to train, how best to look after their bodies. Some of them even study it for their education, John Cena for instance has a degree in Exercise Physiology. You then add onto that supplements and powders and the like that are formulated to help keep them in shape. And top that off with it being a lot easier in this day and age to get good food and decent exercise equipment all over the place, and you’re left with guys like Cena. A man who got blessed with a great body, who worked hard at training, learnt how best to train, knows all the best supplements and fuels to power his training, and a physical job on top of it, and thus his body remains pretty damm good.

Either that or he’s Superman. His return from surgeries do point to that outcome…

But by all means, if you disagree, tell me why, and we’ll see you all next week.