The Wrestling 5 & 1 12.24.11: Kaitlyn Versus Lizzy Valentine!

Posted by Greg De Marco on 12.24.2011

Kaitlyn takes on Lizzy Valentine in Vs, thoughts on TNA’s booking of Bobby Roode & James Storm and whether it's actually worked and are Daniel Bryan, CM Punk or Chris Jericho the best in the world? Plus Layla is your “&1” Model of the Week and more!



Welcome to another edition of The Wrestling 5&1! Christmas is upon us, but it's not the normal slow news time that it used to be! Let's talk wrestling, have fun, and then celebrate the holidays a little, shall we?

In response to you, my readers, I have moved the Greg DeMarco Show player, supplied by our friends at the VOC Nation to the top of the column. This way you can pause, play, or adjust the volume in one easy location! Be sure to check out the full line-up of shows available at VOCNation.com, including Bruce Wirt's Voice of Choice Wrestling Nation, The Suplah, The IT Factor with Alycia Kayback and more! Also, tune into The 411 on Wrestling Podcast, right here on 411Mania.com!



It seems this match is a way to placate HHH's ego by going more times against taker than HBK. HHH is smart enough to have himself lose but why waste a precious undertaker match? This year there's no reason to set up this 'all-star' match as the event is almost entirely sold off Cena vs Rock. They could have easily put up Ziggler, Swagger, Danielson, Punk, Rhodes, Del Rio, Miz, Morrison, SOMEBODY not established to get the rub from taker. Taker's only got a few matches left in the tank. Why waste them with someone who obviously doesn't need the help?
Posted By: Macho Man

With Taker coming back for basically one match, I'm okay with HHH-Taker (& Michaels around) living in a vacuum. There are plenty of other stories to tell. Taker likely has this match with HHH and a match with Cena left before calling it a career. I guess I've accepted the fact that he's the most special of special attractions, and no one is really getting a rub at this point.

So, PWG is a glorified super-card indie that runs a show once a month, never leaves southern California, and somehow, in your opinion, it's above CHIKARA, which travels all over the northeast and continues to expand, and just debuted on iPPV. Umm, okay. Makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]
Posted By: Jed

Joey Ryan himself explained it, on my own show. They could grow and do what CHIKARA has done. But they choose not to. They're happy with what PWG is. It's hard to argue with that logic.

"As for the Divas, it makes business sense to take it seriously. A hot woman who can also wrestle is more marketable and has more longevity than one who is just hot." ... When has this ever been true? I'm tired of people pretending the WWE had some "golden age" of womens wrestling. Nobody gave a crap about the likes of Jazz, Victoria, and Molly Holly, who were all replaced by diva search models. Longevity? Trish and Lita, the two "figureheads", were only around for 6 years. And if you saw Lita's appearance last week, and Trish's return earlier this year, you'll realize the current generation of fans have no clue who they are. ... The entire history of divas in WWE, since the days of Sunny, have been about hot chicks selling posters and videos. Most of the popular ones quit to become full time models (Sable, Trish, Stacy, soon to be Kelly). That's where the money is. None of them were good workers, and thus nobody paid to watch them wrestle. ... Before you or any of the commentators say I'm wrong, show me proof that womens WRESTLING has ever drawn in WWE. None of those women I mentioned have been missed in the slightest.
Posted By: Guest#3762

I wasn't referencing prior history when I made that comment. I'm not saying there is a golden age of women's wrestling. It's hard to compare the eras, since it's the top stars who truly draw. What I am saying is that the WWE has an opportunity to turn their Divas division into where the women are both hot AND can wrestle. It doesn't make they'll take advantage of that opportunity. I just hope they do.

I'm interested in Katz's project since it's taking a more character-based outlook on wrestling. Not so much WWE-style goofiness, but definitely managed more like a film than a traditional wrestling promotion.
Posted By: Guest#1772

I can tell you that I am very intrigued. I think, once this product is released, many internet fans will flock to it. Hopefully it will deliver as big as it appears it can. And hopefully it's a breakout moment for the talented performer that is Joey Ryan.

Also, Kaitlyn vs. AJ Lee? #1 and #2 in the Hall of Bang, interchangeably. Are you pitting them against each other to try and keep one of them out? They both belong in the hall.
Posted By: KANE

I've proven in the past that people can come back for a second (and third...fourth...) chance.

Triple H bragging about Undertaker is a "just in case" thing. If it follows through, I actually see Undertaker beating Triple H. If Undertaker loses, you can't really bring him back as a special WM match.
Posted By: Guest#4171

Only time will tell if you're right. I don't think you are, but you just never know.

Triple H claimed he ended the streak, as in Undertaker may never wrestle again. Thus, he might never compete at WM anymore. That was his point.
Posted By: Common Sense

Really, THAT's common sense?



That's silly. That doesn't mean he's ended the streak. It's not like The Undertaker has competed at every Wrestlemania since his debut. He's missed 1 or 2 right? Besides, even if The Undertaker never wrestles again the streak is still intact. Triple H may have been the one to walk out or whatever he said but Taker still got the pin.
Posted By: alan

Ok, there. Alan set you straight as well. It wasn't a pin that ended the match, but that's the type of nitpicking I usually leave to you all. Alan is still right!

Hey you used my "card carrying IWC member" line. I'll be expecting my $5 kickback in the mail anytime now. ... I gotta' agree with you on HHH's comments regarding Taker. I was hoping that Taker would come out and kick HHH's ass. ... Glad to hear that your show is taking off. Soon your rating will be approaching TNA levels. ; )
Posted By: Tom

You know, you make a GREAT point, one I hadn't noticed. My show is outdrawing most TNA PPV events! That EASILY makes you...



I dig AJ, but I didnt think everyone else was onthe same page. Shes a spunky, tight, petite, flexible, latina with a great ass who wresltes in chuck taylors. Nice if you ask me.
Posted By: sm

And she offers a variety that is sometimes lacking in the division. I hope she has a good career in the WWE.

I was at the WRP tapings, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt it is going to be the wrestling event of 2012. Everyone brought their A game, and guys like Ryan, Pearce, Hero and MVP all took themselves to places I've never seen them go in their long careers. I am a bit sad about everyone knowing about Ryan's character and his twist. Although it has created buzz for the show, the reveal was one of the most shocking, and I would have liked to see the wrestling audience go through the same surprise that the taping audience did.
Posted By: Guest#1392

I'm glad to hear from someone who attended the tapings. Obviously some results got spoiled, but from what I understand it's not the bulk of the news. Joey Ryan's character did create a buzz. I really think Joey Ryan, being as talented as he is, will become a mainstream star because of this. And Jeff Katz is the perfect example of a Hollywood-type that works in wrestling. As you said, he got the wrestlers to go someplace they hadn't gone before. That's a Hollywood characteristic that wrestling/wrestlers usually lack. I rarely say this, but thank you for making those comments!



i must say every week you write a column straight down the middle and you tell it like it is. this is no doubt the best column on 411mania wrestling. by the way do you think theres a possibility of Kane vs Sin Cara for Wrestlemania? (this is to draw the most masked audience of course, ruling out Mysterio since he wont be able to make it back in time and Sin Cara said he will be back in 4 months and less)? keep up the good work
Posted By: Guest#9272

I can't thank you enough for that! Seriously, it made my day when I first read it. As for Kane-Sin Cara, it all depends on the story they want to tell with Kane. I don't see Cara winning the match, but with no Rey on the card—and Cara being a draw—it's possible. I think it also depends on what they have planned for Daniel Bryan. If he is champ going into ‘Mania, then both Sin Cara and Kane will be left with nothing to do. But if he loses the title before the "granddaddy of them all," then Daniel Bryan-Sin Cara could be a kick ass undercard match, as both men have had great matches in the past. If they use Cara on the show (and I believe they will), they need put him in a situation where he won't have a horrible botch. Against someone like Kane, they'd need to rehearse like crazy. Against Daniel Bryan, he could really deliver. There is also the possibility that Sin Cara gets thrown into some kind of 8-man tag (like the one we saw last year with The Corre).

You misunderstood me, I wasn't saying you were speaking for the IWC or anything like that, I was asking what your personal thoughts were on the IWC's hypocrisy towards Cena. The IWC's hypocrisy towards Cena is terrible at times IMO, I was wondering if you thought it was too
Posted By: Guest #2498

You know what? I did in fact totally misinterpret that. I will cover that topic in a future 5&1. I think it's a topic worth exploring.

your fucking annoying podcast playing automatically is a pain in the arse. cut it out ya wank.
Posted By: me

That's the VOC Nation code. But I moved it to help you out, bro.

WTWUF - not to beat a dead horse, but those clamoring for a Cena heel turn need to watch the main event of Tribute to the Troops. That kind of reaction, goodwill and pr can't be touched by anyone else on the roster, or anyone coming up (that I know of). But I only partially agree about it being hard to "groom" the top face. Yeah, you need someone with charisma and talent to step up. But then, corporate/creative has to start packaging them. Cena didn't get from Vanilla Ice 'gangsta' to a cross between Rocky, Hogan and 'face Sgt Slaughter without a lot of work from agents, writers and marketing folks. I think they wanted to do it with DiBiase Jr (circa when they put him in that Behind Enemy Lines direct-to-dvd flick), but he wasn't connecting with fans the right way. Anyway, given the ages of all involved, they've got about five years for somebody in his mid-20s to show and/or step up so the company can start working on it.
Posted By: s1rude

Once the WWE decides they'll spend money on you, you're going to the top. What you do with it impacts your longevity. It appears Vince is willing to invest in CM Punk, and look at him now. I see the same in Sheamus. They did it with Randy Orton, too. So you're totally right about "grooming the right face." There is some grooming. But they can't pick out a random guy and groom him. There is some serious commitment and work involved before they even notice their own signed talent. So yeah, I was a little too direct in my point, and you're more right than I was!

As for the PWG logo shirts, I did not get a response from my contact in the company, unfortunately. It happens...people get busy and things slip through the cracks. Especially with indy wrestling, where people usually balance two careers.

I know the Undertaker will face Cena at Wrestlemania when it's all said and done, but he NEEDS to face the Great Muta at a Wrestlemania before then. Bring him into the Smackdown brand and let him go on a monster heel run, capped off with a short feud with Kane. A rematch can be done ata supershow at the Tokyodome.
Posted By: #Imjustsayin'...

I can't complain, as I tend to welcome fantasy booking!

Would love to hear more about Barbi Hayden too!
Posted By: SilentOx

She'll be on the show about once every month or so. Keep listening!

"Triple H makes perfect sense to me. Michaels retired Flair, Taker retired Michaels, and now Triple H might retire The Undertaker. Does that make Triple H the WrestleMania novelty match? Possibly. And when Trips is done, who retires him? John Cena? Randy Orton? "
I didn't really want to see another HHH-Undertaker match at the next WM, but after reading your opinion especially after pointing out the above, I'm actually hoping for that match. Plus HHH might be the only one who wouldn't be hurt by losing to a crippled old dead man.
Posted By: Christopher

Usually you all change my mind. Glad to see I changed yours! I really think it's best to put them in their match and let it live in a vacuum.

I'd probably put Dragon Gate and PWG at about the same level. DG has their iPPV business but PWG has a stronger overall support system online; but, neither company draws as well as barely-hyped regional indys like AAW. But yeah, PWG is way smaller than people are willing to admit.
Posted By: Guest#9804

PWG (and DGUSA) gets more international attention than companies like AAW. Sure, they draw well, but they pay less and have far less exposure than PWG does. The number of fans that come through the door isn't the only indicator of success. And PWG has sold out both of their last two shows.

WRP looks like the savior of the business. super pumped.
Posted By: Guest#0293

Savior? No. if I were "The Wrestling Realist" Patrick O'Dowd I'd tell you it's a niche product that, if it takes off, will be an item that people really look forward to each year (or half year, depending on the schedule).

I really don't see how HHH/Nash can be a good match, it might be a fan trainwreck like Hogan/Sting, but don't think it has any shot of being good. Also, NOBODY should end the streak, especially HHH. If anybody was going to end it, it should be somebody who can get a major push with the win, like a young wrestler. NOT HHH!!!
Posted By: Still Guest#8287

The streak isn't ending. The story will be in HHH and HBK trying to screw The Undertaker. Now I admit that is a better story for The Miz or Dolph Ziggler. But as I've said numerous times, I'm fine with it being how it's believed to be. And thank you for the continued compliments!

I REALLY like Kaitlyn, but... I would marry AJ. So AJ.
Posted By: Jimbo

That's an interesting perspective, as I don't think many people pick Divas based on marriage. Wrestling is usually an escape from real life. But to each their own...







When he was the Ring of Honor World Champion, Bryan Danielson sold himself as the "Best Wrestler in the World." And in terms of in-ring performance, he was right. Since then, Chris Jericho stole the line (and he complains about others!), and it's now the calling card of WWE Champion CM Punk. However, Bryan Danielson himself is now at the top of the business, as the World Heavyweight Champion. So I ask you...who is truly the Best Wrestler in the World?

In part one of this 2 Part Perspective, let's take a look at all three



We can first look at the most prominent man to make that claim, Chris Jericho. Chris Jericho is an amazing talent, who has often reinvented himself in an era where so many struggle to find even one invention of themselves. In the ring, he can tell a story with the best of talents. And I can't think of a man who has lost something after feuding with Chris Jericho. His feud with Shawn Michaels is something of legend, especially knowing that Jericho & Michaels came up with each part of the story on their own. It's that feud, in my opinion, that put him into a Hall of Fame status—a true Hall of Fame status, not one set on Vince's opinion. In the ring, on the stick, and in the media, Chris Jericho is the definition of a true professional. And don't think he's a bad guy because he works you on Twitter. That makes him that much better. He didn't actually call himself the best "wrestler" in the world, because "wrestling" was a bad word at the time. So he was simply "the best in the world at what I do."



CM Punk is the current WWE Champion and the man who set the wrestling world on fire over the summer. He's taken to calling himself the "Best Wrestler in the World" during his recent ascension to the top of the business, and it's hard to argue against that in the present time.

What it took CM Punk to rise to the top is amazing. He was labeled an "indy darling" and an "internet sensation" by the very people in charge of handing out pushes, yet here is. But all three candidates have had to battle some sort of criticism of that nature (for Jericho it was size, for Daniel Bryan it's both). CM Punk not only overcame that obstacle, but he's now using it as a strength—something Punk has always done in a sneaky way. Now he's more overt with it.

The CM Punk of today is basically a package courier service. He delivers. Every time. In the ring. On the mic. With the fans. He's at the top of his game while the spotlight is directly on him.



When Diamond Dallas Page won the WCW World Championship, he cut a promo where he referred to himself as an anomaly. A deviation from the common rule. But that comment has never been more suited to a man than it is for Daniel Bryan. He's billed at 5'10" and 210 lbs, but we all know better. He was billed at 186 in ROH, and he's barely taller than I am (and I'm 5'8"). In an era where the WWE is getting away from kayfabed weights, it's funny that they're fabing his. That's the WWE for you.

But as I said before, Daniel Bryan has had every strike against him in the WWE. Too small. To indy. And thanks to one tie choke on Justin Roberts, too controversial. But here he is, the World Heavyweight Champion.

He's arguably the best performer in the ring. He has a lower "bad match" percentage than any performer in the world. When he wrestled Jericho on NXT, it was so entertaining for all levels of fans. I knew he could be big when that match happened. Still, when he won Money in the Bank, everyone not named Steve Cook feared he'd be the first man to not successfully cash in. Thankfully, Cook was our teacher in that one.

When Danielson was the ROH World Champion, the fans chanted "Best in the World" at him each match he wrestled. He latched onto it as well, and rightfully so. He was a champion who deserved every main event, every honor, and every accolade that could come his way.

Chris Jericho. CM Punk. Daniel Bryan. Three men who have called themselves the Best in the World. But who really is?

You Decide: After point one, who do you think is the best in the world?




From our site's article:

The latest edition of The Greg DeMarco Show, presented by 411Mania.com/Wrestling, aired on December 6, 2011, as Greg & Patrick welcomed Steve Cook, Tony Acero, Justin Freemyer and special guests The Young Bucls (Nick & Matt Jackson)!

The brothers Jackson joined the program and left no stone unturned. From their training to their run in the Southern California indies to excelling in Pro Wrestling Guerrilla to their debuts in Ring of Honor and Dragon Gate USA, their TNA careers, their much publicized WWE tryout and their return to ROH, The Bucks shared it all. They discussed who brought them into TNA, their friendship with Jay Lethal, thoughts on TNA's use and firing of talent, the positive aspects of working for TNA, when their TNA contracts were set to expire, their backstage confrontation with Bruce Prichard where they asked for and received their release, their thoughts on the Impact Zone crowd, the story behind their empty arena match with The Motor City Machine Guns, and the real story behind the "Booker T Handshake Incident." Are they making more money in ROH than in TNA? Matt & Nick spill the beans on The Greg DeMarco Show. The Young Bucks appeared on The Greg DeMarco Show courtesy of Ring of Honor, who presents Final Battle 2011, live from The Hammerstein Ballroom on Friday, December 23 at 7:30 PM and streaming worldwide at GFL.tv.



We did in fact have an amazing show with The Young Bucks! They discussed everything for over an hour, and I strongly encourage you to listen here, or to head over to vocnation.com and check it out. As I mentioned above, the embedded player that I get from VOC Nation is at the top of the column, to make it easier for you to control.

And once again, I need to thank you, the listeners, as our show continues to deliver great numbers at the Voice of Choice Wrestling Nation website. We made some format changes to the show to allow for a better flow, a more professional presentation, and to give Steve Cook a better place on the show. I hope you like it!

Tune in next week as Patrick and I take a look back at 2011, as well as visiting with the promoters of indy start-up New Era Championship Wrestling and our friend "The Greek God" Papadon!





In a topic that will likely get its own 2 Point Perspective down the road, I want to get your thoughts on the push of both Bobby Roode and James Storm. A year ago they were the best tag team in the world, fighting for airtime and recognition on a retooled TNA roster. Now, they're broken up, and are involved in programs with two of the most recognizable wrestlers in the world.

Bobby Roode's journey to the World Championship is well documented. Mainly because it pissed so many people off. Roode won the Bound For Glory Series (despite an injured Crimson having more points) and got himself into the main event of Bound For Glory—TNA's biggest event of the year. He was pinned in controversial fashion by Kurt Angle, a move that TNA tired to sell as Roode being screwed. One taping later, James Storm was the World Heavyweight Champion, needing less than three minutes to take the belt away from the Olympic Gold Medalist.

Two weeks later, Bobby Roode was the world champ, turning heel in the process. He was labeled the leader of the selfish generation, spitting (literally) in the face of authority. And he's becoming one of the best heel champs TNA has had in a while.

James Storm is involved in a feud with Kurt Angle that is getting rave reviews. And it's allowing Storm to showcase his amazing promo ability (even if it's usually in front of a crappy Impact Zone crowd). They've delivered in the ring and on the promo side, and it seems like that is guaranteed to continue.

So with Roode and Storm at the top of the company, destined to have a long and entertaining feud between each other, I ask you, the readers, was it worth it? Did TNA actually do a good job in elevating their two newest-biggest stars?

Because I'm starting to think they did...

You Decide: Was the manner in which Storm & Roode both won the TNA World Championship worth it?



I truly hope you have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwanza or Happy Holiday Season (which ever applies). And there is a chance a good percentage of you will be (or has been) involved in some sort of White Elephant Gift Exchange this year. If so, then you can relate to our friend Michael Ornelas's latest video...



For more of his work, seek out TouchButt Productions on YouTube.

You Decide: Any good white elephant stories for you?





I am going to cheat. Sort of. More of a clarification, actually. I mean, I am going to name the Best Wrestler in the World. The key word being "wrestler." The best wrestler in the world is the World Heavyweight Champion Daniel Bryan. And it has nothing to do with the belt around his waist. That merely gives him the credibility with the mainstream wrestling fans.

In the ring, Daniel Bryan is a man without equals. Look at the best strikers in the world. Daniel Bryan can hang with them in the ring. Look at the best submission artists in the world. Daniel Bryan can hang with them in the ring. Look at the best high flyers in the world. Daniel Bryan can hang with them in the ring. Look at the best power wrestlers in the world. Daniel Bryan can hang with them in the ring. Look at the best brawlers in the world. Daniel Bryan can hang with them in the ring (or at ringside).

He isn't necessarily the best in each category. But he's higher on all five lists combined than any other wrestler in the world. Inside the squared circle, from bell to bell, I truly believe that Daniel Bryan has no equal. Watch his motions. He's fluid. Look at his strikes. Pin point accuracy that doesn't hurt his opponents. He has the best submission move in the world. It's both visually impressive and believable, and it can be applied to a wrestler of any size. And there isn't a wrestler—or more importantly, a type of wrestler—with whom Bryan is incapable of having a great match. That type of praise is normally saved for two men: Ric Flair and The Rock. That's some serious company, right there.

Now, what about the other two men? Chris Jericho simply doesn't compare in the ring. And don't take that the wrong way. He's an All-Time Top 25 level talent. He can hang with nearly anyone. But I think Daniel Bryan can get a better match out of an opponent than Chris Jericho can.

CM Punk? He's in the same league as Jericho. And let me get to my clarification. CM Punk and Chris Jericho are better overall performers than Daniel Bryan. In fact, CM Punk is the best overall performer in the world today. But I didn't say performer. I said wrestler. And the best wrestler is Daniel Bryan.

You Decide: Who do you think is the best wrestler in the world?



Last Week: After a big win last week, AJ Lee wasn't able to overcome the support for Kaitlyn. Will the small margin of victory for Kaitlyn be enough to keep her going?



This Week: Kaitlyn has a tough competitor on the other side of the Versus Arena, as it was calls from the people that brought Lizzy Valentine into Versus!



Does Kaitlyn pick-up win #2?



Or does Lizzy take over?



YOU MAKE THE CALL!



Kaitlyn vs. Lizzy Valentine. Take your pick!
Stay tuned as next week as I'll reveal the winner!



I just want to make sure that no one ever forgets this music video. Especially the Carlito appearance, and Hernandez border-tossing Darci Drake into the pool!






Hit up the ‘Mania on TWITTER (so Ashish will like me, okay?)

http://www.twitter.com/411mania
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http://www.twitter.com/411moviestv
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http://www.twitter.com/411games
http://www.twitter.com/411mma
http://www.twitter.com/gregdemarcoshow - that's me!



Layla El got everyone talking this week by briefly mentioning that the WWE could use some "Flawless." Everyone seems to think she's returning. And she did! As the And1 Model of the Week, that is!



Get reading!

Randle's Wrestling News Experience!
The News from Cook's Corner!
Marsico presents The Wednesday Wire, and returns with the Friday Supplement!
Fact or Fiction!
The Wrestling Framework!
The bossman, Larry Csonka, returns with his take on the Top 10 Worst Wrestlers of 2011!
Yours Truly provides our Impact Wrestling coverage!

Plenty to talk about, as usual. Don't forget to vote for your favorite: Kaitlyn or Lizzy!


Have a Happy Holiday everyone!

Until next time...



Listen to the show!