411 Fact or Fiction 01.19.12: Punk vs. Johnny, Foley in the Rumble, EY/ODB, More

Posted by Steve Cook on 01.19.2012

Should Mick Foley be in the Royal Rumble? Was taking the US Title off of Zack Ryder the right call? Should the Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show match have been stopped? 411's Mathew Sforcina & Nick Bazar answer these questions and more in the latest edition of Fact or Fiction: Wrestling!



Hi, hello and welcome to the Wrestling edition of 411 Fact or Fiction! I'm Steve Cook, and it's been another crazy week in the world of wrestling. Impact & Smackdown each had a controversial finish in their main event championship match, while the United States title changed hands on Raw. CM Punk & Big Johnny furthered their issue on Raw while Mick Foley started his campaign to get a slot in the Royal Rumble. A celebrity near and dear to 411's heart appeared on Raw, Eric Young & ODB continued their crazy hijinks on Impact, and Sami Callihan closed out the ECW Arena in a fashion that some "extreme" fans didn't like!

I've invited two 411 Wrestling stalwarts to discuss these topics. Introducing first, the man behind Ask 411 Wrestling, Ask 411 Games, and the man known as Massive Q to wrestling fans across Australia, Mathew Sforcina!

His opponent is the writer of The Contentious Ten, Nick Bazar!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related questions.

1. CM Punk vs. John Laurinitas will end up being a worthy successor to Austin vs. McMahon.



Mathew Sforcina: FICTION FICTION FICTION. Only on the basis that there cannot be a 'worthy successor' to Austin V McMahon unless said angle makes the company involved hundreds of millions of dollars. I'll admit that Ace is, shockingly, making me like him in this role. And Punk is, well, he's Punk. But there's no way this angle makes zillions of dollars, so it can't be a worthy successor. But really, could we please, PLEASE, move on from looking for the next X? Or even the next Y v Z? Let the characters and feuds stand on their own, don't force them into being compared to old gimmicks. For all we know, the next true super-angle will be a face authority figure V a heel wrestler or something...

Nick Bazar: FICTION. It'll be a worthy successor to Drew McIntyre vs. Teddy Long, I'll give it that. But seriously, Austin vs. McMahon is one of the biggest and most popular feuds in the history of wrestling. It's a huge part of what saved the WWF from going under to WCW. What could possibly be a worthy successor to that? Granted, the Punk/Laurinitas feud has gotten better over the last few weeks, but I'm still not dying to see a match between the two. I still can't help but look at it as anything but a cheap knockoff. I appreciate Punk's efforts, especially with that show-closing promo against Laurinitas on Monday, but I'm still not sold.

Score: 1 for 1

2. Mick Foley deserves to be in the Royal Rumble Match.



Mathew Sforcina: FICTION, simply because of the word 'deserves' there. You deserve a spot in the hall of fame, or maybe you deserve a push, you don't deserve being in a match. I'm not saying I wouldn't put him in the match, I would, and I'm expecting Foley V Ziggler now at WM in a Hardcore Match to put Ziggler over ala Edge. But 'deserves' isn't a word I'd like to see used here.

Nick Bazar: FACT. Without question. He still gets good reactions from the fans, he can still move…umm, what else do you really need? Put it this way, if a nearly immobile Jimmy Snuka can get a few minutes in the Royal Rumble a few years ago, so can Mick Foley. I'm not saying he should win it- and he most certainly will not- but the Rumble match is and always has been a great way to feature guys like Foley. It's a way to get him out there to entertain an audience without expecting a 25 minute main event worthy performance. Have him pull out the sock, deliver a couple of double-arm DDTs and put over a younger guy with a memorable elimination. It's a no-brainer.

Score: 1 for 2

3. Taking the US Title off of Zack Ryder was the right move.



Mathew Sforcina: FICTION. although I'm extremely torn on this. I understand, WWE, that you didn't want to push Ryder. I get that. I understand that you felt pressured into giving him a title, and as soon as you thought you could get away with it, you got it off him. And yes, you can argue that Ryder doesn't need the title, whereas Swagger as US champ is such a no brainer. I get all that. All I quibble with is the timing. If you weren't going to go with Ryder as champ going forward (which, you know, was a viable idea...) then it should have been the very first Raw after he won it. I had always assumed that was why the Brodus Clay 'debut' kept getting pushed back, I assumed he'd crush Ryder first Raw afterwards to really piss everyone off. (Although... God help me, I actually like Funky Clay...) Doing it now... Sure, it was a really strong match for Ryder, with the 3 gutwrenches, but I just think the timing is... off. I would have done it at the Rumble. But that's all I argue with, the timing. I probably should put FACT here, but this wasn't completely the right move, so... yeah.

Nick Bazar: FICTION. I don't get this move at all. We just had Zack Ryder "chase the heel for the title" for months last year, and the payoff at the TLC pay-per-view was fantastic. Why can't that be followed up on with a decent title reign? It's pretty clear that Ryder gets another shot at the title given the way he lost it, but it's frustrating that they went this route so quickly. Give him a babyface run with the belt, don't go right back to another chase. Fans obviously love the guy and he's a perfect fit for the United States championship. And it's not like this helps Jack Swagger either. Ever since he lost the World Heavyweight Championship about two years ago, he's been treated like a complete non-factor. That's not going to change after a fluky three minute win over an "injured" champion.

Score: 2 for 3

4. Perez Hilton being on Raw was a complete waste of time.



Mathew Sforcina: FICTION. @PerezHilton followers: 4,367,108. 5 minutes of showtime, one segment, and he praises WWE for days to his audience. Not at all a waste. Cynical and desperate, but not a waste.

Nick Bazar: FICTION. A waste of what, four minutes? If anything, it freshen up the incredibly tired mandatory Diva segments we've been treated to for the past six or so months. He looked excited to be there, I'm sure he plugged it on his website and who knows, maybe it got a few non-fans to check out wrestling. Nothing wrong with that. Also, it gave us that hilariously awful bump he took that reminded me of Vince McMahon's dead fish selling of the Stunner.

Score: 3 for 4


SWITCH!

5. AJ getting run over by Big Show was an acceptable reason to stop the Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show match on Smackdown.



Nick Bazar: FACT. This is the kind of angle that you have to let breath. Think back to when Chris Jericho "accidentally" hit Stacy Keibler with a steel chair in a match against Test. The match was thrown out in favor of a lengthy stretcher job and a chance to let Jericho soak in the heat. If they had stretchered her out and resumed the match immediately after, the effect would have been lost. The same goes for the Bryan/Show match. They played it perfectly- let Big Show cry and show emotion, let Daniel Bryan continue his slow burn heel turn by berating Show on the way up the ramp. It's a continuation of the kind of long term booking the WWE has been showing us lately, and I really like it. It also leaves the door open for a World Heavyweight Championship rematch on pay-per-view where they can make some money.

Mathew Sforcina: FACT... If we're talking about storyline. If we are talking about the rules and regulations of the WWE and precedent and what have you then it's FICTION, sure. But in terms of the slow burn heel turn? It works. Shows that Bryan will take any out he can, even manipulating his girlfriend into harm's way to keep the title. Fair enough.

Score: 4 for 5

6. Bully Ray attacking the referee was an acceptable reason to stop the Bobby Roode vs. Jeff Hardy match on Impact.



Nick Bazar: FACT. In the big picture, yes. Bobby Roode has walked out of every one of his pay-per-view title defenses as the champion who will do anything to win. That's the kind of heel reign they are giving him, so the finish to the Impact main event was right in line with that logic. They are building this up in the hope that Jeff Hardy fans will be willing to put down $35 to watch Roode have nowhere to hide in some kind of No Disqualification, Steel Cage type match down the road. And really, you can't expect a definitive decision in a World Heavyweight Championship match on an episode of Impact when we didn't even get a definitive decision at Genesis just a few days before.

Mathew Sforcina: FACT. Didn't violate the rules, but kept the title on Roode and made Hardy look sympathetic. Plus, unlike the other match, this time the match kinda had to stop since the ref was out, as opposed to some random bystander being injured causing the match to stop for some reason. This one was clearer. The match stopped because there was no ref. So... Yeah.

Score: 5 for 6

7. Eric Young & ODB are entertaining.



Nick Bazar: FACT. On a limited basis of course. I've always been entertained by Young. As a member of Team Canada, he entertained me with his wrestling ability (the guy is very good in the ring, we just don't get a chance to see it these days); when he went on his own, he entertained me with his quirky personality; when he turned heel, I thought he did a surprisingly good job of changing the perception we had of him; and ever since he went back to his comical ways, I've continued to enjoy it in short spurts. Same thing with ODB. She's a refreshingly different Diva, Knockout, whatever you want to call it. She grabs your attention and provides TNA with something the WWE doesn't have at the moment. So it's no surprise that I enjoy them together; they have good chemistry.

Mathew Sforcina: FACT. So is Brodus Clay, dancing. Huh. Maybe this is the end of days...

(What you're expecting me to have something here? Yes, they are entertaining. I agree.

...

How bout them Knicks?)

Score: 6 for 7

8. Sami Callihan beating up Sabu was a good way to close the old ECW Arena.



Nick Bazar: FACT. I haven't seen the actual footage, but from what I've read, it sounds like a very fitting ending to one of the most infamous wrestling arenas in the world. The original ECW was always about staying one step ahead of everyone else in the business in terms of creativity and storytelling. They were always about making new stars and introducing wrestlers who they knew would make an impact on the industry. That same mindset was put to use for Sami Callihan's actions at the end of the final wrestling show at the ECW Arena. He beat down Sabu- one of the biggest names ECW ever produced- and declared the end of anything related to ECW. It's a fantastic way to use a historic event to make a name for Callihan, and an even better transition into Callihan's upcoming CZW match against Tommy Dreamer in February.

Mathew Sforcina: FACT. Let's see, closes the door on ECW via playing to the smart marks in a shooty type angle involving over the top violence. Seems to be the right way to close the ECW Arena to me.

Final Score: 7 for 8

Our writers agree on everything except the thought of Mick Foley in the Royal Rumble. How do you folks feel about it? Does the Hardcore Legend deserve one more chance, or does he need to ride out into the sunset? Feel free to comment on that and anything else on your mind down in the comment section. Thanks to Mat & Nick for their participation, and thanks to all of you for reading! We'll see you next week for more 411 Fact or Fiction!

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