411 Buy or Sell Classic Wrestling Edition 2.05.12: The Fall of WCW, Owen Hart in the WWE Hall of Fame, More

Posted by Joel Thomas on 02.05.2012

Could the downfall of WCW been prevented at Starrcade '97? Does Owen Hart belong in the Hall of Fame based on his own merits? Was the WCW Invasion of 2001 destined to flop? These topics and more will be bought and sold here in the very first episode of Chrono's Classic Wrestling Buy or Sell!




Hello, everyone, and welcome to the premiere edition of Chrono's Classic Wrestling Buy or Sell! You may (or, more likely, may not) know me from my series of retro reviews entitled The Chrononaut Chronicles, wherein I travel back in time to recap WCW's Clash of the Champions television specials. I am the Chrononaut himself and each week, I will come up with six statements relating to the history of our great sport, prior to 2006 because that is when I stopped watching on a regular basis. I will then pose these statements, which may or may not reflect my own opinions, to two writers from 411 Wrestling and they will choose whether to Buy or Sell each one. Sound simple enough? Then, ladies and gentlemen, I believe IT IS TIME!



Introducing first, FIIIIIIIIIIGHTING OUT OF THE BLUE CORNER! Hailing from the thriving hub of Glasgow, Scotland, and representing the Instant Analysis of Friday Night SmackDown... please welcome DAAAAAAAAVID "THE WRRRRRRECKER" MCGREGORRRRRR!


The pen is mightier than the sword. Unless you're fighting a guy with a sword. Then you're pretty much screwed.

His opponent in this six-statement match-up is best known for taking you Into the Indies and most recently, he has taken over ownership of The 8-Ball... this is RRRRRYAN "THE RRRRIPPER" BYYYYYYYYYYYYYERS!


Hey, if people kept asking you about the future and shaking you violently, you'd be angry too.

Alright guys, you know the rules, so let's keep it clean. Here is the first statement...

1. If Hollywood Hogan had put Sting over strong and clean at Starrcade '97, the downward spiral of WCW could have been prevented.

David McGregor: SELL. While Starrcade 1997 is seen as the point in which WCW lost its dominance of the pro wrestling world it was pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. What killed WCW was a mixture of horrendous booking, poor business deals, the WWF's immense popularity and massive debts. Changing the outcome of one match isn't going to solve any of those problems, sure Sting would come out of it strong but they would still have a plethora of other stupid booking decisions (David Arquette as WCW Champion) which eventually made the audience give up on the company. So while it would have been a good idea for Sting to come out strong it really doesn't make any difference in the long run.

Ryan Byers: SELL. Don't get me wrong, that was a stupid, stupid, stupid move, as Randy Orton might say. However, WCW's business was still awesome throughout 1998, so it's not as though the Sting/Hogan finish was an instant killer that the company never recovered from. I would put a lot more blame for the promotion's death on blunders that occurred in '98, such as putting Goldberg vs. Hogan on free TV when it could've been one of the biggest pay per views of all time, the poor ending for Goldberg's streak, and the Fingerpoke of Doom. There were also larger systemic problems like failure to create new stars (with a couple of exceptions, e.g. Goldberg/DDP) and the bloated pay scale, which meant that the company was almost guaranteed to be unprofitable unless they were doing the record business seen in '97 and '98. All of those things would have eventually caught up with WCW and killed it, even if the Hogan/Sting finish came out differently.


Wouldn't have mattered, Sting.

2. Based on credentials alone, Owen Hart does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

David McGregor: SELL. I don't think he should be a first ballot Hall of Famer but I definitely think Owen Hart deserves a spot in there one day. Hart was an Intercontinental, European and Tag Team champion as well as a King of the Ring and if Koko B Ware can get in there with nothing compared to that then I absolutely think Owen should be in the Hall of Fame. The guy had a stellar career, from his amazing feud with his brother Bret to his run with the Hart Foundation back in 1997. I think if the likes of Koko and Drew Carey weren't in the Hall of Fame and it went with the impact they made on pro wrestling then I might have to change my answer but as long as it is decided the way it is then yes Owen Hart deserves a spot. I think had he lived to see the return of a less brawl style in 2001 onwards he would be an absolute first ballot entry as that would have been an era where Owen would have shined.

Ryan Byers: BUY. I guess that I should qualify this answer and say that, really, it depends on what Hall of Fame you're talking about. When it comes to credentials, there really are no standards for the WWE Hall of Fame, given that such luminaries as Chris Von Erich (spent most of his career in comedy matches against Percy Pringle) and James Dudley (Vince McMahon Sr.'s limo driver, despite WWE's "official" stories about him being a promoter of some kind) have been inducted. If those guys are in, anybody can get in. However, when I'm answering this question, I'm talking about a real Hall of Fame that actually has standards based on a potential inductee's credentials, such as the Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame or the Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame in Amsterdam, NY. In that sort of hall of fame, Owen doesn't stand a chance. Despite the tragic manner in which he died and despite the fact that he was an AWESOME in-ring performer, when it comes to credentials Owen was mainly a preliminary/midcard performer who had one main event level feud against his brother Bret that, though it produced some awesome matches, was not a very big box office success. That's not enough to get you into a legit hall of fame in my opinion. In fact, when we've done voting for our very own 411 Mania Wrestling Hall of Fame, Owen has never been on my ballot and never will be, even though I considered myself a pretty big fan of his.


Definitely not.

3. If Shawn Michaels didn't go on to become a legendary solo superstar, the Rockers would have been remembered as little more than midcard Rock 'n' Roll Express clones.

David McGregor: BUY. I agree and disagree here, I don't think they would be considered Rock n Roll Express clones but I really do not think they would be help in as high a regard as they are today if it wasn't for the success of Shawn Michaels. Don't get me wrong they were a good tag team but there were so many bigger and better tag teams in that day that had a much bigger impact on the industry than the Rockers. When you ask the casual fan who was the great tag teams of the late 80's early 90's they are more likely to be mentioning Demolition and the Hart Foundation than Marty Jannety and Shawn Michaels. They were great in the ring but the reason they are remembered so well these days is because of Shawn Michaels and the WWE's endless packages of how he rose to fame, which almost by law have to mention how innovative and great Michaels was during his time in The Rockers.

Ryan Byers: BUY. They would be remembered that way because that's exactly what they were. Hell, they were originally named the "Midnight Rockers," a combination of the names of the Rock n' Roll Express and their most famous opponents, the Midnight Express. If that's not a clear indication of who they were knocking off, I don't know what is. And, if you think about it, the Rockers were never really treated like a top tag team. They got their one phantom title reign and a pretty hot feud with the Brainbusters, but, at the end of the day, they were only a step above the Young Stallions on the tag team pecking order. I analogize their role to Dean Malenko's role in WCW during the Monday Night War in WCW. They were all great in-ring performers who were over far more than the level of their push, but, at the end of the day, they weren't going to pop up any higher than the middle of the card, and, given the similarities, the Rockers probably wouldn't be remembered any better than Dean Malenko is now if not for the fact that Shawn Michaels spun off to become one of the biggest stars of the 1990s and 2000s.


It's safe to say nobody would have cared about this reunion if not for the guy on the right.

4. The WWF made one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the company when they signed Mark Henry in 1996.

David McGregor: SELL. As a business deal it was far from Vince's smartest move but Mark Henry was an Olympian weightlifter and was a silver medallist in the Pan American games so with that kind of background he should have fitted in perfectly, so it is easy to see why Vince threw the money he did to Henry. Mark Henry isn't a great wrestler or amazing on the mic but his incredible background and immense strength should have been enough to warrant a monster heel push. Many a time Mark Henry was the joke but the guy is so strong he can do things in the ring that no one else can do and the WWE should have been wise to that long before now. Hell had they given him a program with Austin for a month or two back in 1998 the guy could have ridden that momentum until the hall of pain gimmick came up! Henry may have been overpaid in 96 but the potential was definitely there so I wouldn't say it was one of the WWE's biggest mistakes.

Ryan Byers: SELL. It was a mistake. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that it was a pretty big mistake, signing a guy who had never set foot into a professional wrestling ring to a ten year, ten million dollar contract. However, calling it one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the company is a bit of a stretch. The WWF New York Restaurant cost them more money with less return. So did the XFL. I've never seen any hard figures, but I'd bet the World Bodybuilding Federation did too. Don't even get me started on the millions that they flushed down the toilet with the botched handling of the WCW Invasion. Signing a green guy for a lot more money than he's worth doesn't even come close to any of these blunders. And, for the record, I would just like to note that I love everything Mark Henry has done in the past year or so since he started the "Hall of Pain" gimmick. However, that's a year worth of quality material from a guy who has been on the roster for sixteen years with a huge paycheck. Like Henry or not, I have a hard time justifying his overall price tag.


Thank God for the XFL, WBF, WCW Invasion, and the various other bigger mistakes in the history of the company.

5. Even if Vince McMahon had elected to buy out the contracts of the high-priced superstars, the WCW Invasion of the WWF in 2001 was destined to flop.

David McGregor: SELL. Nothing about the Invasion angle was destined to flop, at the time the WWE were coming off one of their best written and most successful years ever so everyone thought that this was going to be one of the biggest and best storylines of all time! In hindsight we know that the writing for the angle was awful and that WCW were never seen as a true threat to the WWE. This was mostly due to booking but also because the names that came over weren't the established names of WCW's glory days. No one wanted to see Buff Bagwell or Kanyon they wanted to see Sting, Flair and Hogan taking on Austin, Rock and the Undertaker but that wasn't to be and having guys like Booker T facing off with Rock just wasn't enough for the most anticipated angle of all time. I think no matter the booking had the top stars from WCW came over the angle would be looked back as a lot more favorably.

Ryan Byers: SELL. I don't even think that they needed to buy out the contracts of the well-paid wrestlers in order to make the angle a success. All they had to do was take the former WCW wrestlers who were under contract to WWF and treat them like legitimate stars and equals to the established members of the Fed's roster. The problem wasn't that the invaders didn't have the right roster. The problem was that the heel invader faction was never allowed to get any heat. The babyface WWF contingent never had to rally or overcome adversity. Instead, the WWF got the better of WCW from day one, and, with minor exceptions, that continued over the course of eight months until it was decided that the feud was over. Compare this to the nWo, when the invading force dominated for a long period of time upon coming in and actually got mega-over as a result of doing, despite some of their members being less than stellar. (Virgil? Really?) So, no, this angle was not destined to flop. It could have been huge, even with the exact group of guys brought in.


This poster tells you everything you need to know about why the Invasion was destined to flop.

6. Considering the potential he displayed early in his career, the Big Show has to be considered a major disappointment.

David McGregor: BUY. Even though Big Show is a former WCW, WWE and World Champion he has also been in some of the most boring uninspired matches and feud I've ever seen. When you look at Big Shows career nothing really stands out bar his feud with Floyd Mayweather, which started off great but had lost its allure way before they stepped into the ring. I honestly can't say I look at the Big Show and fondly remember anything; he hasn't had that defining feud, match or arguably moment (I will accept the suplex that destroyed the ring as a defining moment). He was billed as some sort of agile Andre the Giant but Andre had the body slam at Wrestlemania 3 that skyrocketed Hulkamania and cemented the 8th wonder of the world as a legend. But Big Show has just floated through the past 13 years with the WWE rarely making an effort or doing anything worth note, so I do agree that Big Show has to be considered a huge disappointment after the fanfare that he was brought in with.

Ryan Byers: SELL. If anything, I think that the Big Show looked god awful in his early career and has really turned it around to become a high caliber performer. I was watching him from day one as the Giant in WCW and, though he moved better because he was young, in terms of in-ring mechanics he was on the same level as a Great Khali or a Giant Gonzales. It wasn't until he was signed by WWE and shipped down to OVW that he gained some seasoning and turned into a solid hand and, with time, he became AWESOME. Seriously, at this point the Big Show is a very smart worker and is significantly more mobile than other wrestlers of the same size from over the years. Also, he's probably the best actor of any "giant" wrestler in history, as he has a natural, likeable charisma and translates it well into segments such as the recent Daniel Bryan/AJ Lee angle. If you told me seventeen years ago that I would like the Giant as much as I like the Big Show now, I would've told you that you were insane. The fact of the matter is that he's developed very well as a pro wrestler and has surpassed the limited potential that I thought he had early in his career.


The now-extinct Flying Giant.

Welp, that's it. Didn't have much luck selling my statements this time around, but join me next week as we go back a bit further in time and deal with topics relating to the '80s wrestling scene. Thank you very much to Ryan Byers and David McGregor for participating and I hope you enjoyed the column. Until next time, I'll see you at the corner of...