All The King’s Men 02.08.12: Week 6 – Do You Want to See Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28?

ALL THE KING’s MEN!

The Concept
The concept of the column is simple. As the “King” of the 411 Roundtable, I will pick a topic for discussion. The staff, or “Knights” of the old roundtable will then have the opportunity to state of they are FOR or AGAINST the week’s topic, and then will have the chance to defend their position. Lets get to it…

Do You Want to See Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28?

The Undertaker is back on WWE TV and he wants a rematch with Triple H at WrestleMania 28, which has led to both excitement and criticism. You want to see the Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28.

Larry Csonka – AGREE: This is a match that has been rumored for some time, essentially since last year’s WrestleMania ended, and since then, the wrestling fans have been split. And I don’t mean that kind of, “we’ll agree to disagree” style of thing, I mean some want it and some hate it, and if your opinion is different than anyone else’s, fuck off. Opinion is a beautiful thing, isn’t it? First of all I want to say this, if you disagree with me and have no desire to see this match, I can understand and I fully respect your opinion. Share your thoughts in the comments and let me know exactly why, because I would love to see some constructive thoughts. Now, onto why I want to see this match. First of all, I am a sucker for a good “trilogy” of matches and or fights. I loved the Rock vs. Austin WM matches, and I have no problem with WrestleMania rematches. Secondly, I was a big fan of both matches. I think that the WM 17 match gets completely overlooked and forgotten due to Austin vs. Rock II. I also really enjoyed last year’s match, which some days I feel in the minority in doing so, but I dug it. Next, I liked how the WM matches with Shawn Michaels led to his retirement, I liked the angles and the matches were great. I really feel that Triple H is looking to retire and move into full time Corporate H mode, which is fine. Finally, I really do not see any other matches involving these guys and other opponents that I would really like to see, considering the current roster and booking. Sure Undertaker vs. Jericho could have been something special, but then what with Triple H? Yes LAST YEAR they could have went with Wade or someone else, and done what they did with Triple H and it would have been great for the young guy, but they refused to do that. To me this makes sense, and I honestly like the match and think that these guys will do their best to deliver. And after the promo and video packages on Monday, I am all in. Thanks for reading.

Wes Kirk – DISAGREE: I don’t think any of the ATKM articles have been easier for me to make a decision on than this one considering the very last thing I want to see is Undertaker and HHH wrestle for a third time at an event where Undertaker is one win away from being 20-0 and setting a record that will likely never be bested. I really don’t like HHH. As a performer he’s serviceable, he can have some great promos when he’s funny and not trying to be the most serious guy in the room, but he’s not a very good human being. He badmouths his fellow wrestlers, he uses his influence in the company to effect business decisions based on personal feelings, he wormed his way into his job thanks to dating and marrying Stephanie McMahon and frankly he’s more concerned for his own gigantic ego than good business. You can thank the incompetence of HHH for having Sin Cara pushed down your throats when the man was a danger to himself and others in the WWE ring for months, and you can thank HHH for making himself the priority when it comes to the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. Simply put, what is there left for HHH to prove? He lost twice already and last year was by submission! I’m not really sure why Undertaker would want to challenge him again considering he’s trounced him and made him tap out, although of course HHH got in his little verbal gaffe that said he ended the streak during one RAW. Undertaker is getting older and he’s been able to put on one or two really good matches in the past few years but it is obvious the years of wrestling competition and his mounting injuries are forcing him to retire soon, as this isn’t your normal 9-to-5 job where you can handle it for decades without significant difficulty. UT is rumored to have had many different surgeries, and even a hip replacement, which means him providing a quality match will be hard although he has shown he can do it. HHH is a selfish man and would want Undertaker to probably job out to him, or maybe want Undertaker to beat him one last time just to claim he was the final victim before the man retired which really isn’t something to brag about. Hunter’s obsession with thinking he “earned” anything in this sport is laughable as if it wasn’t for being picked for a McMahon pet project gimmick from the start and working with the Kliq he would never have hit the main events and after marrying Stephanie he was guaranteed anything he wanted. I said many times before he’s the smartest man in wrestling for getting away with all of this but the fact of the matter is nothing good can come of this match! Undertaker has won twice, if he loses his streak is gone and you can’t just replace that but if he wins what did he really prove since he won twice before? Neither man is able to go in the ring like they did in 2000 or 1995, neither man needs the victory, and frankly UT would be better served to go over somebody in a quick match and take his deserved twenty victories and call it a career than to wrestle HHH for the third time at WrestleMania. Undertaker is my favorite currently active wrestler and to see his legacy tarnished with a loss or to see him struggle through a mediocre match in pain because of the ego of a guy who slept his way to the top makes me sick to my stomach, and I hope this match never happens or HHH loses quickly because there is no real other way to go here.

Robert S. Leighty Jr – AGREE: This one was kind of tough for me, but I am going with agree for several reason. I have been in the crowd for the last three WrestleManias, which means I saw the two Shawn/Taker classics, and last year’s Taker/HHH brawl. In all 3 cases the crowd was into the match, but of the three nothing could touch what we experienced and saw at WrestleMania XXV. The rematch had a reason for happening as Shawn became obsessed with wanting to defeat the Undertaker at WrestleMania, and the subsequent story with Taker refusing was brilliant. In this case, even with the loss, HHH is justifying that he ended the streak Taker had to be carried out following their match in the Georgia Dome. HHH made that point and with his character’s ego it’s pretty reasonable to believe that in his mind he could take credit for “ending” the streak. Now it’s the Undertaker he wants the rematch because he doesn’t want the lasting image in his feud with HHH being that he was carried out at WrestleMania. This gives HHH the chance to play the role Taker did the year heading to Mania XXVI against Shawn. So from a storyline standpoint this match does make sense. The story makes even more sense if the WWE gets Shawn Michaels involved again and he is there at WrestleMania in some regard: special ref for the match, in HHH’s corner, outside enforcer, whatever.

The other point is that Taker is going for 20-0 and I think he needs to go against someone that puts doubt in the fan’s minds as to if he will win or lose. At this point there aren’t many people in the WWE that the fans will reasonably buy as having a hope in hell against Taker at WrestleMania XXVII. The one name that the fans would buy is John Cena and he’s had his match for WrestleMania booked for the last year. There have been some who wanted Kane to get another crack, but then you run into the same thing as it would be Kane/Taker III, and if given the choice I would rather have HHH/Taker III just from stand point that it means a better match. Outside of Cena the only other person I could see the fans buying as having a chance against Taker is Randy Orton, but I think WWE has plans for him involving the World Title.

Many also worry that a 3rd installment of HHH/Taker means that HHH will be the one to end the streak. Most feel the streak should never end and rest seem to think it needs to be a younger guy to give him the rub. I don’t hate HHH as much as most in the IWC do, so I do believe that for the 3rd time he will once again do what everyone else has done when facing Taker at WrestleMania: lose. HHH is a smart man, and I believe the WWE knows that Taker doesn’t have many WrestleMania matches left and I believe they are doing what they can to stretch things before doing Cena/Taker at WrestleMania XXX or whenever they get to Cowboy Stadium (Cena vs Streak would be more than enough to help fill that Stadium).

Finally, as I mentioned I was there in the Georgia Dome last year and the crowd more than loved the match between the two. I do think they are more than capable of giving us a very solid match again this year. Taker is a yearly worker as it is, and I don’t think he would go out there on the biggest stage if he wasn’t capable of delivering. In the end both men needed a match at WrestleMania, and with neither being very active members of the roster it’s best to pair them together again instead of involving either in a Title Match (where both men would want to be considering their stature) or having them crush someone on the undercard. For me it is the best decision and frankly I am looking forward to seeing if they can outdo what they did in Atlanta and what role, if any, Shawn Michaels will play in the Undertaker/HHH III.

Chad Nevett – AGREE: At this point, it is obvious that the Undertaker’s Streak will not end. This was a possibility years ago, but, since defeating Edge at WrestleMania XIV, the chances of it happening have slipped to nil. And, honestly, Edge wasn’t even a good bet to end the Streak. Despite what others think, there is no rub to be gained at this point in facing the Undertaker. No upside. Whoever he faces is simply a victim, a predetermined loser. Especially with this being the year where the Undertaker will reach 20-0, there’s an even stronger downside to losing: whoever loses will always be #20 — and, possibly, the final victim of the Streak.

With that the case, the Undertaker needs to face an opponent who won’t be buried by that fact. People talk a lot about Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes or any other younger superstar being a better choice than Triple H to face the Undertaker this year, but this sort of loss could overshadow everything else in their burgeoning careers. What has Wade Barrett accomplished that is more memorable than being #20 would be? Nothing. This would become the defining moment of his career and could kill any momentum he has in the WWE. To lose here makes you the biggest, most visible loser that the WWE could produce right now.

Triple H is a smart choice, because he’s already lost to the Undertaker at WrestleMania twice and because his career has so many highlights and accomplishments that this loss won’t matter as much — it won’t be a giant stain on his career that will follow him around.

Besides that, the Undertaker is not in peak physical condition. He needs an experienced opponent that will make sure he’s taken care of during the match. A younger opponent is more likely to push things to prove themselves. Triple H knows how to do that in a safe way, in a way that will look spectacular and painful without destroying the Undertaker in the process.

Mostly, I just enjoyed the hell out of their match last year and I think they can deliver another great one. There’s a proven track record to these two that isn’t there with other people. We know that they will deliver and that’s what we all want for the big 20th WrestleMania victory for the Undertaker. We want a guaranteed spectacle — and like or dislike Triple H, he will provide that.

Gavin Napier – AGREE: I’m torn on this. Significantly torn. Why? Because both are right answers. Undertaker vs. Triple H is both the right booking decision and the wrong booking decision here. I’m saying “agree” to this, because I think it’s the most realistic booking decision they can make.

What would I rather see, what would make me disagree with this? I’d like to see Sheamus vs. The Undertaker. I’ve seen this opinion floating around other forums on the ‘net, so I know I’m not the only one. It’s been stated time and again that if and when the streak ends, it should be used to firmly establish a young guy that’s just on the cusp of greatness. If the powers that be in WWE believe in Sheamus like we think they do, he’s the perfect guy to do it. He’s certainly more suited to the role than Wade Barrett, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Cody Rhodes, or anybody else on the roster. He’s in a better position to do it than anybody since Batista – and he would be a better choice than Batista due to Dave’s age.

Sheamus taking on Punk or Bryan doesn’t seem like a “natural” match. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with Bryan and the WHC, but Sheamus vs. Bryan doesn’t excite me. Sheamus using his Rumble win to demand a shot at ending the streak would further emphasize how important The Streak is not just to Undertaker, but also in the WWE Universe in general. As a face/face matchup, it could be the ultimate show of respect. And the way they’ve painted Sheamus as a bruiser, almost a force of nature, would work in the match. Dropping Brogue Kick after Brogue Kick into ‘Taker’s skull until he just can’t get up and finally finishing the Dead Man would establish Sheamus for years to come.

But that’s not going to happen. And because it’s not going to happen, Trips is the right call. The Undertaker matches, since focusing on The Streak, have taken on an epic feel. Triple H can match that and not feel underwhelming. While he’s not my first choice, he’s the only logical choice if it’s not going to be Sheamus.

As I believe Larry pointed out shortly before or after last year’s Wrestlemania, the HHH vs. Undertaker story is just a continuation of Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker. The fourth and final chapter is the logical conclusion to a story that’s been being written since the Road To Wrestlemania 25. After this Monday’s RAW, it’s clear that HHH is going to make Undertaker beg for his rematch just as Shawn had to beg for his second shot at Taker. It’s a nice symmetry – and don’t forget that we’ve got HBK as a special guest coming up soon on RAW – to end things.

It’s the right decision because it will deliver the required “big match” feel, and puts two of WWE’s biggest names on the card without bogging down or necessarily burying any of the younger, rising talent on the card. And because they’re not going to do the Sheamus thing unless there’s a major swerve coming that I don’t see.

James Wright – DISAGREE: I probably should come up with a better reason than ‘We all know who is going to win’ since that will most likely be the unanimous opinion here. What’s more the counter argument of Triple H being so egotistical that he might pull a fast one doesn’t even help as Triple H winning would mean nothing. Wrestling isn’t all about wins or losses, but it is about the win or loss having a meaning, which is why so many people get angry when stipulations are just ignored, like Jericho being fired from Raw twice for instance and coming back like nothing happened. The bottom line is that last year’s match meant nothing and this year’s means even less.

Now maybe if in the coming weeks it becomes ‘If Triple H loses he can never wrestle again’ then at least that would be something, and it would make sense if he is going to legitimately take the reigns as the on-screen authority figure of the company. Having a stipulation like that hanging over his head would mean he could avoid things like what happened with Punk and Nash from happening again, of course whether the WWE want this or not is another question, I think it would be for the best though.

Then again even with that stipulation going ahead, and the possible addition of Shawn Michaels as the special guest referee, the match will be nothing but a footnote. If the Undertaker’s streak is such a big deal then every match should be monumental. The only problem is that this year I can’t see anyone who would be a bigger opponent. If Barrett had got the push he deserved last year, won the title off Orton, lost it in the Chamber and then faced Undertaker as it was rumored then that would have worked, but this year Barrett is nowhere near credible enough to take on the Deadman believably, so he’s out. Orton is someone who I could see going up against Taker again in a couple of years, in a more compelling version of what Triple H and Taker tried to do last year. The now matured Viper going against the man who put a rest to his ‘Legend Killer’ gimmick when he was an up-and-comer, but not this year. Jericho has Punk, Cena has the Rock, Sheamus is too green and Sting is still hanging around in TNA for god knows why.

So I suppose what I’m trying to say is that while I’m not exactly excited to see the match, there is little else that the WWE could have done at this point if they wanted a ‘Taker match at ‘Mania. Of course they could have planned things a little differently or more in advance or just given the guy a year off, but whatever…Brodus Clay? Meh.

Ryan Byers – AGREE: I watched Wrestlemania last year, and, honestly, I came out of it feeling like I didn’t get my fifty-five dollars worth. Aside from the slick presentation, the ONLY thing that felt like it was worthy of the biggest show of the year was HHH vs. Undertaker, a match I would easily put at above the **** mark. Given that this year’s show will also feature Rock/Cena and is rumored to feature Shaq/Big Show, I doubt that HHH/UT will be the only match that feels worthy of the card again this year, but it’s a match that is guaranteed to be worthy and a match that is guaranteed to be good if not great, so I have a hard time saying that I don’t want to see it on the show.

I see some people saying they don’t want HHH/UT because the streak has gotten boring because they “know” who is going to win. I take real issue with those comments, because they demonstrate a blatant misunderstanding of what promoting professional wrestling is supposed to be about. The whole point of the business is supposed to be getting fans excited about a particular result, giving them an event at which they are highly likely to see that result occur, and then having them pay for that event to see the result they’re anticipating. That’s how wrestling has worked for generations, and people who want things to be unpredictable just don’t “get it.” It’s like the movie Die Hard. You should know going in that Bruce Willis is going to win at the end, but being uncertain about the result isn’t why you see the movie. You see the movie to see HOW he wins and because, even though you know the ultimate outcome, a good movie will still make you feel for the protagonist when he’s in danger.

The other complaint that I see about the match is that booking it makes it all the less likely that the streak will be broken by an up-and-comer on his way to the main event. That doesn’t bother me for two reasons. The first is that I would be perfectly happy if the streak never ended. I’ve watched almost all of Taker’s career, and he’s given me and scores of other fans tons of memorable moments, but he’s never been rewarded with a legendary title reign the likes of which were enjoyed by Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and Bruno Sammartino. I see the streak being Taker’s award in lieu of that title reign. The second reason I am fine with the streak not being ended by a young guy is that I don’t think WWE has any young guys in the right position to do it. Miz, Swagger, Del Rio, Barrett . . . they’re all portrayed as midcard geeks who lose as much as they win, which is not the kind of upward trajectory that somebody needs to be in a position to beat Taker at WM, and that is not something that can be reversed in the time left before the PPV.

The other reason that I want to see HHH/UT at Mania is related a lot more to Monday Night Raw than it is to the PPV. In my opinion, Raw has not been a good show over the last several months. There is too much focus on comedy (Ryder) and nonsensical storylines (Cena/Kane), and too few people are being portrayed as superstars. If Taker and Hunter have a program against each other, you can rest assured that there will be no BS, it will make sense, and they won’t be treated like clowns. So, we’re not just dealing with a situation in which this will give us a good match. We’re dealing with a situation in which this is going to give us a couple of awesome months of pro wrestling television leading up to the match.

Tony Acero – AGREE: Yes please! Okay, look, last year’s match may be best remembered for being a snoozefest, but it still had a lot of great moments, and at the very least they were telling a story…it just wasn’t the greatest story. My fandom for Taker is no secret, and although some may say that he being gone for a year spells a broken body, I’m thinking (hoping?) that it’s the opposite. A year off should be able to heel the man if he’s stayed active and kept his health in check. People seem to think that Taker is as old as dust, when he’s really not. The dude is like 47, I believe. True, he’s not a fucking spring chicken, but he’s still relatively young in terms of age. He’s just been around for a long time. This may be blind hope, but I feel that both men know what happened last year and are aware that there were a few moments they could have upped the action. I feel that because of this, they’re going to bring on the goodness here, and with the added fold of HBK possibly being involved, it’s going to be one hell of a spectacle. We also have to applaud the length at which this storyline has been going on. They’ve not put much effort into it but they haven’t really needed to. From Flair to HBK to HHH, Taker has bested them all, and rightfully so. But these matches have all been linked in some way, and that’s amazing! If this is Taker’s last match, then I’m ok with it being Triple H, so long as he wins. As of this point, it’s nothing more than a special attraction, so why feed a young guy to him, when we could use Triple H as fodder for the win?

Am I excited to see this match? Hell yes. Am I worried that it will suck? Well, not as much as you may think. At the end of the day, this is a throwback match for an old school fan who is holding on to the glory days. And ya know what, maybe come Wrestlemania time, that’s just what I am…

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