411 Fact or Fiction 08.16.12: Brock/Shawn, Jericho/Ziggler, Steen/Fans, More

Hi, hello & welcome to 411 Fact or Fiction! I’m Steve Cook, and it’s been quite an eventful week in the world of pro wrestling! TNA & Ring of Honor both held big events on the weekend…Austin Aries retained the TNA world title against Bobby Roode at Hardcore Justice, and now Roode can no longer receive title shots as long as Aries is champ. Zema Ion retained his X Division title against Kenny King, and I was involved in a debate on the 411 on Wrestling over whether or not he needs the X Division title when Jesse Sorensen comes back. ROH’s Boiling Point show received good reviews and drew a good-sized crowd in Providence, Rhode Island, but the show-ending angle with Kevin Steen attacking fans drew some criticism. Meanwhile, WWE is rolling towards SummerSlam this Sunday. Like most people expected, Brock Lesnar attacked Shawn Michaels on Raw. Alberto Del Rio’s attack of Sheamus on SmackDown led Booker T to strip ADR of his title opportunity at SummerSlam. The Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler match became official on SD, and Abraham Washington’s dismissal drew attention of the online crowd.

I’ve invited two of 411’s heavy hitters to discuss these pertinent topics. First of all, a man who needs no introduction…Stephen Randle!

His opponent is another man that needs no introduction…Greg DeMarco!

Questions were sent out Monday.

Participants were told to expect wrestling-related questions.

1. Brock Lesnar’s beatdown of Shawn Michaels helped sell you on the SummerSlam PPV.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. The Brock Lesnar-Triple H feud has been decidedly underwhelming, and the beatdown of HBK did nothing to add to it. Anyone who didn’t see that moment coming when Shawn made his return knows nothing about pro wrestling. Thus, it was badly telegraphed and lost a lot of its impact to me. Plus, this feud has stretched out for so long and been so clunky because neither guy appeared on TV more than two weeks in a row at any time since the feud began, and I don’t even give a damn who wins because Brock’s going to disappear until Mania either way, and Trip’s a part-timer at best, so no matter the outcome, nobody really benefits. At any rate, nothing about this supposed “main event” feud has persuaded me that I need to buy SummerSlam.

Greg DeMarco: FICTION. I am no more or less motivated to see this match after RAW than I was before it. The build for this feud peaked at RAW1000, and we’ve been treading water with two weeks of Shawn Michaels involvement since.At the end of the day, I want to see Brock Lesnar beat Triple H and move onto something better with the WWE, and that didn’t change on Monday. Personally, I think they did more than they needed to do. If you love Lesnar or you hate him, your mind is already made up. Booing and cheering isn’t changing with one HBK beatdown.

Score: 1 for 1

2. Alberto Del Rio will end up taking on Sheamus for the World Title at SummerSlam in spite of Booker T’s ruling after last week’s SmackDown.

Stephen Randle: FACT. What else are they going to do on the Smackdown airing three days before the PPV? It seems kind of stupid to either ditch the World title match or replace the challenger for a non-legit reason, and I know that they are stupid, but I still don’t think they’ll be doing either of those options. I imagine the nebulous Board of Directors will force Booker into reinstating the title match and it’ll go forward. Yay. I guess.

Greg DeMarco: FACT. I am responding to this question after having the luxury of reading Smackdown spoilers. However, I’ll be fair and tell you this (SPOILER ALERT): had I not known the spoilers, I would have assumed we would see Sheamus defend the World Heavyweight Championship against Alberto Del Rio and Randy Orton at SummerSlam in a triple threat match. I don’t love Del Rio vs. Sheamus, and Orton is still mega over. So I easily saw the WWE going that route. Now, thanks to the magic of the internet, I am fully aware that it is in fact simply Sheamus defending against Del Rio, thanks to Booker T giving in to Sheamus’s demands to have the match. Personally, I would have gone with Option C—Wade Barrett.

Score: 2 for 2

3. Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler will be the best match at SummerSlam.

Stephen Randle: FACT. It’s a qualified “Fact”, though, because I don’t foresee any of the matches at SummerSlam being anything better than pedestrian. Punk and Cena could have done a magical one-on-one match, but even a motivated Big Show can’t help but drag that down, and while Bryan’s a miracle worker and Kane is the most carryable big man in WWE, I bet that match lasts about three minutes or so. Triple H vs Brock won’t be a match as such, but it’s going to be the big main event anyway, and I’d bet that they’ll script the rest of the card so that it doesn’t get overshadowed. Call me crazy, but if Ziggler-Jericho gets time it could be best match of the night. But it won’t be a high bar to clear, unfortunately.

Greg DeMarco: FACT. The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio will surprise some people, Daniel Bryan vs. Kane has some potential, and Santino can actually wrestle and might get in a good match with Antonio Cesaro. Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H will be entertaining. But Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler has match of the night written all over it. Ziggler is the best overall wrestler in the WWE today, and has “the future” written all over him. Chris Jericho is very motivated, seemingly at the thought of getting Dolph over. The WWE can’t avoid face reactions for Ziggler at this stage, and the crowd will pop big time after Dolph gets a clean win on Jericho at SummerSlam.

Score: 0123 for 3

4. Abraham Washington deserved to be fired.

Stephen Randle: FACT. I covered a lot of this already, but absolutely, he deserved to be fired. He said something stupid and controversial at a time where he had to know that saying something stupid and controversial would be a bad idea, especially when you’re in a role that they can clearly just ditch and pretend you never existed. If he didn’t know that, then he’s an idiot. I know, heavily scripting everything and coming down hard on people who step out of line and say embarrassing things on live TV discourages wrestlers from showing real personality and is a horribly stifling work environment, and I’m not saying I like it one little bit, but it is the reality of the modern WWE, and they were well within their rights to shit-can him.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. I think what Abraham Washington said on RAW was stupid, and that a televised talent should be smarter about what they say. But if Chris Jericho served a one month suspension for what he did, and Randy Orton is served with a 60-day suspension for his second wellness policy violation, then I think Abraham Washington serving a suspension would have been the best option. His actions since prove to me that they likely made the right decision in firing him, but the action alone (the Kobe Bryant joke) shouldn’t have caused him to be fired.

Score: 3 for 4

SWITCH!

5. Austin Aries will still be TNA Champion heading into Bound For Glory.

Greg DeMarco: FACT. As a big fan of old school Ring of Honor, and of Austin Aries himself, I still have to pinch myself everything Aries—cape and all—walks on TNA’s stage with the World Championship around his waist. He was an awesome X-Division Champion, and is proving to be a very effective World Champion. On top of that, I think TNA’s most logical booking has also booked them into a corner. This year’s Bound For Glory Series being better organized has led to each wrestler facing the other 11 once. That means if James Storm were to win the BFG Series and go over Bobby Roode at Bound For Glory (as so many expected), all of his potential world title challengers would come from people we just watched him wrestle. Outside of Austin Aries, who else is there? Austin Aries, however, has nearly the entire BFG Series feud available for title shots in the coming months. Combine that with the fact that Bobby Rood eand James Storm can have a nice, long feud extending through the end of the year (and beyond) that doesn’t place a strangle hold on the world championship if neither man holds it. Finally, Aries vs. one of AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Jeff Hardy or Rob Van Dam for the title and Roode vs. Storm in a non-title grudge (and possible stipulation) match is vastly superior to a Roode-Storm world title match and an Aries undercard match. I think Austin Aries walks into (and out of) Bound For Glory as the world champ.

Stephen Randle: FACT. I feel like they’ll have the BFG Series finals headline No Surrender, and I wouldn’t even have Aries wrestle on the show. With Aries retaining at Hardcore Justice and Roode not allowed any rematches (which we’ll get to next), I’m truly intrigued at what they’ll do for the World title match at BFG, and I think Aries deserves to be the Champion heading in, no matter who the BFG Series winner ends up being.

Score: 4 for 5

6. Bobby Roode will not get another title shot during Aries’ reign.

Greg DeMarco: FACT. I think we’ll get a tease of a title opportunity through some sort of legal claim by Roode, but in the end doesn’t get a shot. That leaves Aries to compete against the rest of the main event scene while Roode & Storm feud. Roode-Storm continues through the first of the year, which is around the time that Aries’s reign comes to an end—without Bobby Roode getting (or being in position for) a title shot.

Stephen Randle: FACT. I want to believe that TNA will stick to the “no rematch” stipulation very badly, because they made such a big deal of it. If Roode comes out on Impact and uses the whole “double pinfall” thing to wrangle another shot, it will cause TNA to lose a large portion of the goodwill they’ve earned with me over the past few months, which I entirely do not want to happen. Please, TNA, be different than every wrestling promotion ever. Honour a stipulation for longer than one day.

Score: 5 for 6

7. Zema Ion needs to be the X Division Champion whenever Jesse Sorensen comes back.

Greg DeMarco: FICTION. For the feel good story to be complete, Sorensen needs to win when he comes back. However, he doesn’t need to win the title—he just needs to beat Zema Ion. So what I’m calling is for Zema to drop the title before the end of 2012, then feuding with a returning Jesse Sorensen. This leaves the X-Division champion (whoever that might be) free to have a different feud, giving us two PPV quality X-Division matches.

Stephen Randle: FACT. I don’t like it, because I think Ion is an inferior talent and would prefer to see Kenny King and Sonjay Dutt in feature roles, but the clear money match is Ion vs Sorenson in a “you broke my neck you son of a bitch” match with the X Division title on the line. With the X Division roster still glaringly thin, they need this big storyline to remain relevant and not get shoved in the background in favour of what the rest of the roster is doing.

Score: 5 for 7

8. Kevin Steen attacking “fans” at ROH’s Boiling Point iPPV will help him get heat from the ROH fanbase.

Greg DeMarco: FICTION. Nothing Kevin Steen does will get booed by the current ROH fan base. They will continue to cheer for him no matter what Jim Cornette does. Per PWInsider, the angle was called for by booker Hunter “Delirious” Johnston and it’s designed to put more heat on Kevin Steen as a heel. But in reality, it screams of desperation by a company that is struggling to maintain any form of momentum (or build any for that part). The Boiling Point event drew a reported 900-1100 fans, and was a legit sell-out—people were turned away at the door. Consistent draws in that range could easily turn Providence into an “A” market for the company, hosting marquee events like Death Before Dishonor, Glory By Honor and Final Battle. Worked fan interaction angles can do nothing but harm in my opinion, and could derail the accomplishment of that draw.

Stephen Randle: FACT. I mean, of course it’ll get heat, it already has. But I don’t think it was necessary or wise. I fail to see how they couldn’t have done something else to garner heat, because Steen already is pretty close to nuclear hot and it’s not like he needed that little bit more at this point. As a secondary point, it comes off as a little amateurish, because it’s clearly a work, since you’re not letting your wrestlers attack real fans since the dangers of working with untrained people is too high. At this point, it’s a work on the level of the old “stunt granny”, and people are just going to laugh at you for trying to work the fans, especially in a “smart”-heavy fanbase like ROH.

Final Score: 5 for 8

Greg & Stephen agreed on most things, but broke apart towards the end there. We thank them for their participation and invite you to comment on these topics down in the comment section. We’ll be back next week with more Wrestling Fact or Fiction!

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