411 Fact or Fiction 11.01.12: Cena/AJ, Jake Roberts, PWG, More
Posted by Steve Cook on 11.01.2012
Was Ryback's push hurt by his loss at WWE Hell in a Cell? Will CM Punk still be WWE Champion heading into the Royal Rumble? Will Sheamus benefit from losing the World title? 411's Michael Ornelas and Chris Methods debate these topics and more in this week's Fact or Fiction: Wrestling!
Hi, hello & welcome to 411 Fact or Fiction! I'm Steve Cook, and it's been another crazy week in the world of pro wrestling! CM Punk retained the WWE title against Ryback at Hell in a Cell, while Sheamus lost the World title to the Big Show. The accusations against John Cena & AJ continued. TNA announced that their next Gut Check would feature a former ECW talent. Diamond Dallas Page is going to attempt to use DDPYoga to give Jake Roberts one last run in wrestling. The NWA made headlines by doing something silly while PWG put on another critically acclaimed wrestling show.
Our first participant would like you to know that Real Championship Wrestling is holding a show this Saturday night at the Du Burns Arena in Baltimore. Say hello to Frankenstorm Sandy's worst nightmare, Chris Methods!
His opponent presents the TV List every Saturday in the Movie Zone. Here's Michael Ornelas!
Questions were sent out Monday.
Participants were told to expect wrestling-related questions.
1. CM Punk will still be WWE Champion heading into the Royal Rumble.
Chris Methods:FACT. I would first like to thank a gal named Sandy for an interesting evening last night. I would also like to throw out my well wishes to my friends on the coast who got battered and the ones stuck on the West Coast unable to return home. As for Punker, the ONLY way he was NOT walking into the Rumble as WWE Champion was if he had lost to Ryback or lost it at the Survivor Series. Seeing how he is involved in a traditional Survivor Series 5 on 5 match up, his belt is safe until Rumble, no doubt. They won't waste a major title change on what they feel is a B show, which is sadly how they view every show other then the supposed "big four." No matter if the ratings drop to the bottom of the ocean, they will not change course and panic, because much like Hell in the Cell, WWE has booked themselves into more corners and have no other course then to head for Rock vs. Punk at Rumble. God I hope that I am wrong.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. Had you asked this before Hell in a Cell, I would have had my doubts, but it's pretty clear now that they really want the title on him (and I think from a narrative standpoint, that's absolutely the right call). The Rock vs. CM Punk is something I'd rather see at WrestleMania, but if they really want that John Cena rematch, I get it. Now, of course they could reverse the two, give us Rock/Cena II at the Rumble, have Punk win and face Rock for the championship at Mania, but there really isn't a point to getting the belt off of Punk for only a couple months. Ideally, let Punk beat The Rock at the Rumble, have Ryback win that, and squash Punk at WrestleMania. It gives the big guy more time to polish his in-ring work and see if he can keep fan interest up that long.
Score: 1 for 1
2. Ryback's push is not hurt by his losing at Hell in a Cell.
Chris Methods:FICTION. A ref who the WWE thought so little of his wrestling ability and look that they MADE him become a ref to keep his job beat Ryback. Match should have never happened. End my PPV on a screw job, I end my caring of a company a bit. I feel like they tried hard to save it after the fact, and all four men involved did their jobs well, but they should have never been in that position.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. It's actually a step in the right direction. It will give fans a reason to get behind him (he was cheated) and make them want to see him get payback in the future. It's just a new chapter for him and a needed one to see how he rebounds from the loss. I think he'll just be fine, and as stated above, he's my pick to win the Royal Rumble and a world championship at WrestleMania. I do think now that Ryback has had a match for a world championship, it wouldn't make sense to give him a secondary title, but I think he should be feuding with former world champions between now and the Royal Rumble (while still keeping the champion (if Punk) on his radar. If Punk isn't the champion at WrestleMania, I think Ryback dominating The Big Show could do wonders for the guy. But he'd definitely need a finisher he can hit on Show that isn't The Meat Hook.
Score: 1 for 2
3. Sheamus will benefit from losing the World title to the Big Show.
Chris Methods:FACT. I wrote out this wordy thing about how Vader got more over by losing his title to Ron Simmons in jest, but then I watched Raw. FACT FACT FACT!!! Getting away from Boring Del Rio and actually bringing a really enjoyable match to my eyes at Hell in the Cell has changed my opinion on him. Then his promo battle with Show opened my eyes to the fact that if the WWE machine got behind Sheamus, he can be the face of the company and carry it on his back. The right crowds buy into him fully, and the bad crowds still pop for his big moves. Wrestlers get more over chasing a belt then they do holding a belt. It and he are already benefiting a day later.
Michael Ornelas:FICTION. The champion's the top guy. You lose the belt, you don't benefit. Well, unless you're Daniel Bryan. I think the audience benefits from Sheamus losing the belt, and that will trickle down to help him and his popularity for an eventual next title run. I'm a little burnt out on him as champion, so it'll definitely help me like him more to see him go down the card for a bit. I like the guy, but I think more than title loss, he needs a gimmick tweak to benefit. Not by much (you can't drastically change your main eventers), but I think small changes will freshen him up. Or a heel turn, but I don't know if we need that right now. Especially with a heel champion in The Big Show and a heel Money in the Bank briefcase holder in Ziggler.
Score: 1 for 3
4. John Cena & AJ had a business dinner & nothing more.
Chris Methods:FACT. Knowing John Cena years ago, I will tell you he is into fat chicks. Just saying. They of course had dinner and talked about John's elbow. Also John saved AJ from physically assaulting another employee of the WWE. Damn Steve, could you ask a dumber question? How about "YOU EXPECT GOOD THINGS FROM THE AJ AND JOHN CENA STORYLINE" FACT: This will mean we can see Dolph versus John, a fairly fresh feud, which I think may elevate Dolph win lose or draw, even though I actually see him winning that one. Also anything that keeps Vickie on my TV is a good thing. Maybe we can see a new side of Cena for the first time in years?
Michael Ornelas:FACT. I didn't like it when TNA did it, and I don't like this relationship conspiracy story now that WWE's doing it. Even if there is no pregnancy angle or anything like that, I just don't care about this. Don't regard my answer as my actual opinion on this matter, I really just don't care. And that's a shame because I really like AJ and I don't hate Cena or anything like that. I really don't like Vickie in the authority role. Actually, I now just hope it's a fact so AJ can be reinstated and Vickie will be relinquished as whatever her official title is. I don't think that'll happen, and I think she's a placeholder for Ric Flair, but the sooner the better. Vickie's great at getting heat and she's a good manager, but she's perfectly grating that I don't like her interrupting the show 3 or 4 times as GMs typically do.
Score: 2 for 4
5. Christian York deserves to take part in TNA's Gutcheck.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. I think anyone who's had a modicum of success on the indies deserves a chance. But I was close to saying fiction here because where has this guy been for all these years? I haven't seen him pop up on any indy fed of any importance. He has plenty of good connections in the wrestling industry, but I just can't think of anything noteworthy that he's done in the past few years that warrant him a spot that shouldn't go to say El Generico or Kevin Steen (although I'd rather see those guys in WWE. Personal bias, but hey -- that's what I watch every week). It worked out for Joey Ryan, but none of the other Gut Check participants have done anything of significance with the opportunity, so it leaves a lot of room for someone else to break through.
Chris Methods:FICTION. Former WWE, WCW, ECW competitor, Christian York should not be on TNA's Gut Check. As my friend George Hazar said, "Christian York should bypass Gut Check and just be signed. If anything, he should be a Gut Check judge.". Christian York should be able to walk into TNA and get hired. The Former RCW Champion (cheap plug, come see RCW this Saturday in Baltimore) carried the belt with the talent of a man who should be in the upper major leagues. If by chance you need an introduction to him, check out his match on RCW's Man Up against Derek Frazier. It would make a believer out of anyone. If you want to brawl, if you want to fly, if you want to have a classic catch as catch can match, anything; Christian York can do, and has done and looks like a star while doing it. It is a shame the man does not have a contract right now, however even after getting the shaft a ton in the lack of breaks that he didn't get that he had earned, Christian is one of the most humble, self driven and awesome dudes I have met in this wacky world. IF they don't sign him from this, then it would be an injustice.
Score: 2 for 5
6. Diamond Dallas Page will successfully prepare Jake "The Snake" Roberts for one last run in the wrestling business.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. His WWE gimmick was even as a motivational speaker -- how can he possibly fail?! In all seriousness, Jake always seems to have his problems, but he's doing well on weight loss reportedly and DDP really does seem like a positive person and good company to keep. Being filmed by a documentary crew will hold Jake accountable for his actions and his habits, so overall, I think this will be a nice triumphant tale. I have no idea how it will all culminate, and I'm sure there will be plenty of drama, but I really hope for Jake's sake that it all goes well. Page is the man to pull it off.
Chris Methods:FICTION. I have no clue what this question is about and sadly Sandy has limited my internet access to look into it. I will assume DDP and his yoga death squad are trying to train Jake Roberts? Then I have to say fiction while hoping for fact. I am a positive person. I also greatly enjoyed the time that I have gotten to work with Jake in the past. However while I believe that DDP can do this, I just wonder that if the first time it gets too difficult for Jake he will run back to his "demons?" I am pulling for him, but I refuse to get my hopes up for a happy ending when that chance passed during his last WWE run. Hope Jake finds the inner strength that made him one of the best wrestlers of his time.
Score: 2 for 6
7. The NWA's decision to not sanction Adam Pearce & Colt Cabana's "Seven Levels Of Hate" finale and vacate their championship was the wrong one.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. They took a lot of the momentum away from a very entertaining grudge feud. I don't understand why they'd cut the legs out from under something that is bringing prestige to their title. You can get the belt off Cabana afterward somehow, even if you don't book him, but I just don't get the decision to vacate a title that is in the center of a hot program. And wouldn't Cabana have been willing to pass the torch to whoever they want to win this tournament now? I don't really know Cabana's stance with the NWA, but I don't really see him turning down a booking to be professional and drop a title. It's their loss though.
Chris Methods:FACT. Even if they knew that Cabana and Pearce were going to do the old throw down the belt bit, would it matter? I am awaiting the call from the "board of directors" of the NWA offering me the position of president. I would run that bitch into the ground quick, just so any of us that watched JCP can't have our memories tarnished any more than they already have been. Uhm, go Chance Prophet! That is about all I have.
Score: 3 for 7
8. PWG is a serious contender for 411's Promotion of the Year Award.
Michael Ornelas:FACT. It's a serious contender, but at the end of the day I don't think it should win just because they run so few shows. They rarely have a subpar show, and even then it's still pretty great. The talent they book is absolutely top-notch, and having gone to the most recent event, I can say it's the most fun promotion around (hard for me to say definitively though as I have done a lousy job of keeping up with CHIKARA in the past year and a half). I think the promotion of the year will likely be NJPW. I think WWE has had a pretty good year too with the elevation of Daniel Bryan, and the dominant reigns of CM Punk and Sheamus. TNA has come a long way too. Ring of Honor's looking to turn things around since parting ways with Jim Cornette. It's all up in the air, I think, but PWG has got to be a serious contender given match and card quality throughout the full year (I can see them getting 2nd or 3rd).
Chris Methods:FACT. Although I want to say FICTION based on the fact that they shouldn't be a contender, but flat out THE WINNER. No disrespect to any fed in the United States, but PWG was heads and tails above everyone else. Since this is an opinion piece, here is an opinion piece using bullet points:
1.) Chikara has not found the heat of the BDK angle and seem to have a few great shows, then just OK ones.
2.) ROH has been plagued with Cornette booking ideas and technical issues, as well as uncertain booking using start stop methods.
3.) CZW while having moments of greatness has too many times when DJ Hyde slows down the product and is missing the big WOW match that makes people forget the "only deathmatch" stigma.
4.) DGUSA and Evolve have great shows, and at times gives PWG a run for their money, however while PWG can rarely have an off match, Gabe's feds can rarely have off shows due to crappy crowds, top heavy shows, or Larry Dallas. (Just kidding Larry, you are great)
5.) AAW should be on here, because they are great, production and matches. Derek St. Holmes is enough to be on this list. However much like 2CW, RCW, and PWS, they lack the buzz that all of the other feds have. Unlike 2CW and PWS however, AAW has little to no filler. However all four deserve support, so please do. BTW, RCW used to have bad filler, that has cut back, and now the main problem there is amount of shows.
6.) TNA has Hogan, inconsistent booking, some weird need to still "compete" with WWE, and nonsense storylines.
7.) WWE has crappy start and stop booking. They have no faith in any of their wrestlers not named John Cena. They REFUSE to shake things up. This statement sums it up as far as WWE goes. They used to be afraid to fire someone in fear that they would go else where and become a star, now they are afraid to fire someone because of political aspirations of someone not even "working" for the company anymore. Until they get to a point where they are willing to fire anyone because they can make anyone else they want the face, the WWE will not be the best again.
Rant over, PWG is freaking great. Not one complaint. Great wrestlers having great matches, with little to no BS. Even though I dislike watching Davey Richards and The Young Bucks, even they add plenty to the product for me. Go watch PWG.
Final Score: 4 for 8
Our contestants agreed half the time & disagreed half the time. Good times! Thanks to Michael & Chris for participating, and I invite you to chime in on these topics down in the comment section! We'll be back next week with more 411 Fact or Fiction.
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