Ask 411 03.19.02 – Wrestlemania Losers, Warrior/Hogan, Mr. Wrestling II, Kim Duk
Posted by Craig Letawsky on 03.19.2002
I’d like to say hey hey goodbye to Vince and Stephanie McMahon and hello to shitty nWo count-out finishes
Enough about Wrestlemania has been said on line and I don’t have too much more to add. Oh, other than the two hottest crowds I have ever heard have been Canadian crowds. One was the 5 man tag at Canadian Stampede and the other was Sunday night with Rock – Hogan. I also love the fact the crowd cheered for who they damn well pleased and know that they are part of the show so they acted like it. Both the Toronto and Montreal crowds were into almost everything and joined in the show rather than sit on their hands like the last few crowds. Oh…and also, how many times on Wrestlemania and RAW did your hear them chant “What?” For no reason? Hopefully that starts a trend.
I’m interested to see what happens when Hogan and Rock return to the States. I wonder if Hogan will still be so over. McMahon and Flair had a great little exchange on RAW as well. Did you catch McMahon motioning to Flair to keep going instead of stopping when the crowd started chanting “You Screwed Bret”? Funny stuff. How well did the hockey standard “Kiss Him Goodbye” singing fit into last night’s show too? Brock Lesnar is a hugantic monster. Also, the finish to the main sucked but then you gotta save something for PPV I guess. Just don’t make it a habit.
Anyways, WWF is on a roll with two extremely strong shows back to back.
Just a couple of old things and then onto new Q&A.
Don Del Grande had a bit more on Beauregarde: I remember Beauregarde wrestling for Roy Shire's "Big Time Wrestling" promotion in Northern California in 1972-73 (I think he made it into 1974 as well), but he was little more than a jobber (occasionally a JTTS) by then. I don't remember him being a heel, however.
Hey, look at the stroke Eric S. has. One week after he writes about why he hates The Rock in Ask 411 all of Canada turns on Maivia and boo him out of the country. Now who says the internet community doesn’t have power?
Ken Murphy had a bit about Russo’s involvement in the SS’97 screwjob; You mention that you don't think Russo knew, however in an interview after he first arrived in WCW he said that he did know, and was involved in the meetings with McMahon and Patterson. He mentioned it because he and Bret had to work together in WCW and so they had to air their dirty laundry before moving on - Russo also mentioned he thought it was the right move.
Galen Tom had more advice for White Tyson about what to expect from a career in wrestling: I have a few things to share on this subject. I'm a former student of APW (All Pro Wrestling) in Hayward, Ca. When you're going through your training as a student, don't expect to be wrestling anytime soon.
The quickest I've seen someone get to work a show was 4 months. This is a person that has a natural feel for taking bumps and selling moves. But your still a student, so don't expect a check, and still expect to be apart of the ring crew at the end of the show.
Now, you might get to ref a match, or be a onetime stand in character in a story angle. But if you turn Pro, you might see a payout anywhere between $75-$300 per show if you're a good worker in the match and if the show had a good turnout.
As far as finding immediate work, there are wrestling related jobs within the school like secretarial or cleaning stuff. Sometimes the promoter or other big wigs will help land you a job. The former assistant instructor at my school worked for Sega and then later Sony, he help a few students land jobs through those companies. Even the production team for the shows might need another crewmember. To sum up the question, it all depends on what your looking for.
And after three weeks of discussion I think we actually have the “Sting-Cactus-Box” angle figured out. Jeff Sheehan was the first in: Second week in a row that this angle is described wrong. it really went like this: Sting is wrestling and a box is wheeled to ringside, Abdullah emerges and thrashes Sting, then at the Clash another box is brought out during Sting's match with Johnny B. Badd. Cactus comes out of this box. Then at the clash in November, with Sting scheduled to defend the US title against Rick Rude he gives an interview. A third, fancy and exotic box comes out with Madusa (not Hyatt) basically giving Sting a lapdance to distract him from lex luger coming out of the box and attacking his knee, leading to Sting losing to Rude, kicking off what was probably the most entertaining year of WCW ever.
Dustin Morehead, Aaron Cameron and Adam Gallegos dropped in with the same info.
Also, the morning show boys at my station had Missy Hyatt on the show. Apparently Val Venis has a little weinie and Vince McMahon’s breath is bad. Oh, and by her book.
Now onto the new stuff…
Marquis Mitchell Q:My question is, when one wrestler in the ring gets upset at his opponent and begins to work "stiff", has there been a case whereas the opponent got upset and started fighting for real because of it? Also, how can someone be stiffed and not be able to do anything about it?
A: These famous shoots come directly from the RSPW Frequently Asked Questions. If you have not read the RSPW FAQ then get over there and check it out. It’s a great read but I have an ulterior motive as the FAQ answers about 50% of the questions I get and will substantially cut down on my mail. Also, the link is not the official FAQ as previously hosted by Scott Keith as I can’t remember what the new site is that is hosting it but seems to be a direct copy.
25/04/15 - Stanislaus Zybysko defeated World Champion Wayne Munn.
36/03/02 - Dick Shikat defeated World Champion Danno O' Mahoney
85/04/27 - Road Warriors vs. Larry Hennig & Jerry Blackwell. Hennig and Blackwell rough up the young Road Warriors, who, until that time, refused to sell moves for their opponents.
85/09/02 - Akira Maeda and Super Tiger (Satoru Sayama) wrestled to a Double DQ in 18:57. The ref stopped the match because he felt both Sayama and Maeda were getting out of hand.
86/04/29 - Andre the Giant vs Akira Maeda (New Japan) Andre refuses to cooperate with Maeda and Maeda takes him down with several vicious kicks to the legs. 87/01 - Bruiser Brody vs. Lex Lugar (Florida) Brody stops cooperating with Lugar, who gets himself DQed.
87/11/19 - Riki Chosyu, Masa Saito & Hiro Saito def. Akira Maeda, Nobuhiko Takada & Osamu Kido. (New Japan) Maeda delivers a hard kick to Chosyu's face, which breaks 3 bones in his cheek.
91/04/01 - John Tenta vs. Koji Kitao (SWS/WWF) Tenta and Kitao, two former sumo wrestlers, stop cooperating but never come to blows.
1997 - The Nasty Boys and the Outsiders stop cooperating after a particularly hard shot by Scott Hall. Knobs and Sags rough up Hall in the ring to teach him a lesson.
As far as getting stiffed and then continuing it is just part of the job. Most guys when stiffed will return the favour and that lets the other guy know he is being too rough. Some wrestlers just like to wrestle stiff as it adds more realism and want their opponent to do the same. RVD is an example. William Regal, Chris Benoit, Hardcore Holly and the Dynamite Kid are others.
Michael Shockley Q: Hey Craig, (insert ass-kissing comments here). Just have a few quick questions for ya...
Q1: Once the WWF roster splits, do you think it's likely that they'll try to sign any of the WCW midcarders (Norman Smiley, Lenny & Lodi, Crowbar, Kwee Wee, etc.) that they didn't sign after the original purchase? What about re-signing any of the guys they've released (Gangrel, K-Kwick, etc.) in the past year or so? Or will they just stick with the current roster, plus some new developmental talent?
A1: I think the door is open for the WCW guys that didn’t get a chance. Some of the established or experienced guys like Smiley, Lenny and Lodi and Crowbar were not picked up. I believe it was because they already had experience and didn’t have a lot to gain from the WWF developmental territories yet were not needed immediately in the WWF. The WWF could keep an eye on these guys as they took international and indy dates to keep sharp but didn’t actually have to pay them. If they perform well and impress there is always a chance they will be picked up by the WWF.
However, as far as picking up new wrestlers goes I think they will wait to see how the split groups perform when the dust settles and then see where they need to add wrestlers. I would bet on a thinning of the developmental roster after the split as they finalize where they will use people.
Q2: What ever happened to the Maestro? He seemed to have a fairly decent amount of talent and adequate mike skills, but was saddled with a horrendous gimmick during his brief stint in WCW. Is he working the indy scene? Any chance of the WWF looking at him?
A2: The Maestro (Now called The Stro) is taking indy dates. He works for WECW and NACW regularly. He has cut his hair and looks more like Buff Bagwell than his previous golden locked character. Check out his website at thestro.com. There’s always the chance of WWF interest but again it likely won’t happen for a while.
Q3: Several years ago, Schiavone and Tenay always mentioned how Ultimo Dragon once held 13 titles at one time. Was that true? If so, what were the 13 titles he held simultaneously?
A3: Asked and answered Michael my friend. In fact… it was asked by you! Check the archives for the ASK 411 dated 01.08.02.
Q4: I'm writing this before WMX8) Everyone knows that Undertaker is 9-0 at WrestleMania, which is the longest winning streak and definitely the most wins without a loss at the big one. But what about losers? Who has the most WrestleMania matches without a win? Who has the longest losing streak in the history of Mania?
A4: I;m writing this after Wrestlemania and for this list I excluded Hardcore (24 hour rule) and Battle Royals as losses. So, the King of the Wrestlemania Losers is…
Tito Santana. Chico and his flying jalepeno have a win/loss of 2-7. He won in Wrestlemania’s 1 and 9 versus the Executioner and Papa Shango respectively and lost at WM’s 2-8. WM2 – The Funks beat him and the JYD, WM3 he teamed with the British Bulldogs and lost to Danny Davis and the Harts, WM4 he teamed with Rick Martel and lost to Demolition, WM5 he and Martel lost to the Brainbusters (Anderson and Blanchard), WM6 he had a singles loss to the Barbarian, WM7 he lost to Jacques Rougeau, and in WM8 to Shawn Michaels.
Other big losers include:
Greg Valentine with 5 (WM1 vs. JYD, WM2 with Beefcake against the Bulldogs, WM4 vs. Savage, WM5 with Honky Tonk Man vs. Hart Foundation and WM7 vs. Earthquake)
Randy Savage with 4 (WM3 vs. Ricky Steamboat, WM5 vs. Hulk Hogan, WM6 with Sherri Martel vs. Dusty and Saphire, WM7 vs. The Ultimate Warrior)
Shawn Michaels with 4 (WM5 with Janetty vs. The Twin Towers, WM6 with Janetty vs. The Orient Express, WM11 vs. Diesel, WM14 vs. Steve Austin)
Goldust with 4 (WM12 vs. Roddy Piper, WM13 vs. HHH, WM14 with Luna vs. Marc Mero and Sable, WM15 vs. Roaddogg, Val Venis and Shamrock)
Rick Martel with 4 (WM4 with Santana vs. Demolition, WM5 with Santana vs. Brainbusters, WM7 vs. Jake the Snake, and WM8 vs. Tatanka).
You can send in any I miss ‘cause lots of guys have 3 losses including Billy Gunn, Hercules, Yokozuna, Roddy Piper, The Rock, Dino Bravo, Haku and now Hulk Hogan.
jtjt420: Back in 1986-1987 time frame (I don't remember exact dates now)
I live in Ohio and there was a weekly show that was called the WWA.
I remember watching it and at the time Scott Rechstiener debuted (scott stiener now)
They billed this as his first Pro match, and he went on to defeat then WWA world champ the Great Wojo for the belt.
Q1: Was that Scott Stieners first pro match?
A1: Steiner had his debut match in Ohio against “Bulldog” Don Kent in 1986. If that was his opponent then you probably did see the match. It also might have been his first “televised” pro match as he likely had quite a few matches on shows before getting to television. Steiner left the WWA in 1988 for the CWA in Tennessee. Steiner defeated The Great Wojo August 14, 1986 for the WWA Belt.
Q2: What happened to the stars of that fed? The great Wojo, the all american Chris Adams etc etc etc
A2: The Great Wojo (Greg Wojciechowski) was the Olympic Heavyweight representative for the 1980 Summer Olympic team. Of course the US boycotted the games and he never competed on that stage. However, he immediately went into pro-wrestling and wrestled all over the Midwest, Canada and Japan and would teach at a high school during the days. Wojo was a prominent feature on ‘Bruiser Bedlam” the TV show that ran from the late 80s into the 90s in Ohio but when the show was forced off the air in 1993 he decided to stay on in Toledo and continued to teach at Libbey High School. Wojo continued to coach amateur wrestling all through this time until 1999 when he was showing a move on a heavyweight student and ripped his aorta. He died twice while they were operating on him but recovered. He is involved in getting a wrestling program in Ohio middle school and still teaches Shop at Libbey High.
I’m not sure if the All American Chris Adams is the same as Gentleman Chris Adams. My guess is you meant Chris Carter. Either way, Chris Adams was murdered last year. I’m not too sure what happened to Chris Carter though.
Q3: Is this the same WWA that is currently running out of Australia? or did that fed close down and the name bought?
A3: No it is not the same WWA. The new WWA is run out of the States but ran a tour of Austrailia and recently had their Pay Per View debut.
Chris in Jersey Q: A while ago I heard that Led Zeppelin's manager, Peter Grant, was an pro-wrestler before he got into the music business. Do you know anything about this, like any titles he held or anything. I assume he wrestled in England. Any information you could give would be cool.
Keep up the good work.
A: Often called the fifth member of Led Zeppelin, Peter Grant protected his band like no other manager and he taught them how to live the life and project the image of Rock Stars. Grant was the manager of the Yardbirds and when they split up he helped Jimmy Page form the New Yardbirds which became Led Zeppelin. Grant had worked odd jobs throughout his life including a doorman, a stage hand, a sheet metal factory worker, an actor and…for 18 months…a wrestler. Grant was offered the job of tour manager for Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard and from there moved into full time management. Grant was completely unconventional and looked like no other manager. He was rumoured not to even own a suit. Peter Grant died in 1995 at the age of 60.
A cool story from the liners notes of Light and Shade: "Once introducing himself to Bob Dylan at an L.A. party, Grant offered a warm handshake. 'I'm Peter Grant, manager of Led Zeppelin,' he said. Dylan replied, 'I don't come to you with my problems, do I?' It was the only time I'd ever seen Grant at a loss for words."
GhhsscrSTUD6 Q: Hey man, I gotta question for you that comes from Wrestlemania VI, why did hogan and warrior fight? Other than the fact that it was a major money match. What was the angle leading up to that? thanks man if you can answer this.
A: In January of 1990 Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior were teaming to face Mr Perfect and the Genius in a tag match. During the match the Ultimate Warrior ended up clotheslining WWF Champion Hogan when he approached from behind. The electricity was in the air as the two squared off. About two weeks later Hulk Hogan won the Royal Rumble to earn a shot at the then champion the Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania. The two men were both immensely popular and the match-up would be the first face versus face match to headline a major PPV show in the WWF. It seemed that one of them would have to turn heel for the match to work. However, Vince McMahon thought that Hulk Hogan and his red and yellow had run it’s course and was going to have Warrior go over Hogan and replace him as the top star so he needed to keep both men popular. Wrestlemania 6 was to be a torch passing of sports with Hogan doing the honours for Warrior.
As far as the storyline went they built the feud as the little hulkamaniacs against the warriors and the anticipation was intense. Leading up the event the actual match was scripted out and ran through at least twice in it’s entirety. Warrior was extremely nervous about the immensity of the match and the crowd was split right down the middle for the match. Warrior defeated Hogan with his big splash and they basically retired Hogan as “The Immortal Hulk Hogan.” Hogan took some time off and basically sat back and watched as the Warrior was unable to carry the company on his back. McMahon must have been aware that this could happen and that is why he kept Hogan so strong on the way out. By the next year the belt was back around Hogan’s waist, he was top dog in the WWF and had proved that it wasn’t so easy to replace the Hulkster.
Todd Nash Q: Great column. I was just curious as to what happened to Kim Duk of the old Crockett Promotion days, he was awesome when I was growing up.
A: Kim Duk (Masanori Toguchi aka Tiger Toguchi, Tiger Chung Lee) Duk has wrestled all over the world including the Caribbean, Puerto Rico, the U.S. (NWA and WWF as Tiger Chung Lee) and Japan for All Japan and W*ing. Amazingly, although he looked brutal and near dead in the late 80s WWF, Kim Duk continues to wrestle for All Japan Pro-wrestling.
Baby BullF Q: First of all, let me say how much I enjoy reading your column. Back in the 70's, I remember watching Georgia Championship Wrestling with my dad. One of my favorite wrestlers at the time was Mr. Wrestling II. All i really remember of him, since i was very young at the time, is that he was the local hero. I also read in the PWI almanac that he won the "Wrestler Of The Year" in 1975. Can you please tell me more about this man and where he is today, if he is even still alive? Thanks.
A: Johnny “Rubberman” Walker was Mr. Wrestling II (Tim Woods was Mr. Wrestling I). He began in the 60s in Tennessee and Florida (maybe in the Carolinas as well) under his own name before debuting as Mr. Wrestling II in Georgia in 1973. He still made appearances in Tennessee as himself even after donning the mask in Atlanta before making Georgia his fulltime turf. M.W.II kept wrestling into the 80s including a 1983 stint in Louisianna. In 1985 and 86 he became a jobber for the WWF, He faced Terry Funk on tv and was beat on a WWF show by Cowboy Bob Orton in Quebec. By the late 80s Mr. Wrestling II looks to have retired. He was honoured last July at a ceremony during a Columbus Championship Wrestling show in Georgia and inducted into the Cauliflower Alley Club last year along with Stu Hart, Antonio Inoki, Roddy Piper, Billy Red Lyons and more. During the CAC ceremony his late wife was also mentioned. She was the one who made many of Ric Flair’s sequined robes and made ring attire for many wrestlers.
Let’s leave it at that for this week. Thanks for reading and thanks for writing. Drop me a line at - Ask411now@hotmail.com.
P.S. There’s an easy way to check if your question has already been answered in the archives. Just cut and paste “Ask 411””the subject of your question” both in quotations into the Google.com search engine. It will give you all columns that I mentioned with the name of the wrestler you are wondering about. Saves me time and you don’t have to wait for an answer. Thanks dudes.