Ask 411 Wrestling 06.26.13: Bret vs. Hogan, Bruno Sammartino, WWE HOF, More

I am back! You all can’t get rid of me that easily. Okay, just joking. To be honest, I was fairly surprised by the reaction to last week’s column. Everything was (mostly at least) positive. I know, the internet reacting to change in a good way? Amazing. The feedback has been great and very humbling. Not all the messages I received were in favor of my writing style, but that is why four letter words were invented, right?

Either way, I’m here for another round of Ask 411 Wrestling! There was so much pressure on last week’s edition that this past week felt like a breeze. No hype. No anticipation. No jitters. Just writing about wrestling – as it should be. Without any more stalling, I know what everyone is here for…

BANNER!

411 on Twitter!

Justin Watry on Twitter!
http://www.twitter.com/411mania
http://www.twitter.com/411wrestling
http://www.twitter.com/411moviestv
http://www.twitter.com/411music
http://www.twitter.com/411games
http://www.twitter.com/411mma

Backtalking

I was fairly clean in my first week. While Jeff Hardy did main event quite a few pay-per-view events in 2009, The Bash was not one of them – my mistake. That distinction belonged to Triple H vs. Randy Orton for the WWE Championship in a Three Stages of Heck Match. Hardy wrestled CM Punk for the World title earlier in the night. Outside of that, there was a lot of good debate about fans, rumors, and finishing moves. The rest of the comments were opinions, which can’t really be right or wrong.

Before we begin, I do want to clarify a few things. First, my comments are NOT the bold words. That belongs to the readers/questions. My comments will be in regular text. I figured everyone would understand. Silly me for assuming!

Also, the primary focus will be WWE going forward. That is just common sense for two reasons. First, I go by what is asked. Believe it not, most of the topics sent my way are about WWE. Shocking, right? Secondly, WWE is still king of the business. It’d be like writing a football column and its variety of subjects. Of course, the NFL would be the main topic each week. Seems pretty obvious.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

Last week’s question was about Sheamus’ first WWE TV loss after debuting in June 2009. I did not word it perfectly, so that was my fault for any confusion. However, the answer was Goldust and guessed correctly by Kooch first! Congrats to you. There was not tons of other answers/guesses in the comment section. Maybe we need something more difficult this week? Let’s try…

When was the last promoted Undertaker vs. Bret Hart match in WWE?

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?

To begin, Jesse asks about Bruno Sammartino:

What is Bruno Sammartino’s deal? I know he hates Vince McMahon, and the WWF/E for turning pro wrestling from sport to entertainment, and making it very cartoonish, then with the Attitude Era filling it full of sex. Recently, I read his biggest issue – even though they are now PG – was the Katie Vick thing from 2002. What’s his deal? I know he worked in the WWF as a color commentator from ’86-88, didn’t he hate the WWF back then? I mean it was a bit cartoonish then as well, but I remember him working for the company at that point. I just think its sad that one of wrestling’s greatest athletes ever will never be known in the modern era as a result of him being stubborn. He’d rather be remembered and enshrined in a “hall of fame” at an elks lodge somewhere in upstate New York than the actual WWE HOF. If Bret Hart can get over his hate for Vince, Bischoff could even work for Vince for over 3 years, and Jesse Ventura could come back and guest host Raw, why can’t Bruno get over it? Unfortunately, he probably won’t be inducted until he dies, which is a real shame.

Yeah, you are probably right…

Oops! Clearly, this is an old question. However, it is worth bringing up due to his recent WWE Hall of Fame induction. Basically, everyone knows the details by now. Bruno and Vince had bad blood for years. Every time a HOF spot was brought up, it would be turned down by Mr. Sammartino because of the company’s program. To his credit, he stuck to his guns for years. In the end, the almighty dollar won out, as it usually does. He can explain that it is due to legacy, the Wellness policy, Triple H enticing him, Madison Square Garden, fans or whatever cliché he chooses. WWE threw him a ton of cash at him, will promote his DVD/projects going forward and gave him the red carpet treatment. After years and years of saying he would never return under any circumstances…he did. Many would call that a sell out. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but it is not out of the equation either.

In my opinion, I can’t fault him. As you mentioned, his legacy to THIS generation was not very good. Most of the younger fan base either thinks he is some stubborn old wrestler or had never heard of him. Fair or not, welcome to 2013 folks! Just like Bret Hart, Bruno did not want his legacy to be tarnished and/or forgotten about. When the New York/New Jersey market hosted WrestleMania 29 and HHH put on the full court press, all it took was a big, fat check to seal the deal. Despite his laughable claim of only getting $5,000 to appear, he is getting a lot more. Again, I can’t fault him. He made the right move and props to Triple H for getting it done. For all the flack he gets, the man pulled off the unthinkable – getting Bruno back in the company. Don’t be surprised to see WWE interviews, video game characters, books, interviews, features, movies, action figures and more for Mr. Sammartino!

In fact, I have an EXCLUSIVE video for all of you! This is backstage footage of Triple H announcing to the WWE locker room he has signed Bruno Sammartino:

From the comment section last week, 2000AD had a question!

Has there ever been a story line about a wrestler ‘fixing’ matches, as in other wrestlers (or a GM) accuse them of taking dives for money or similar? Would that even work or is it getting too close to being a bit meta / 4th wall breaking?

I am glad you asked this.

A few readers responded to this question. I thank them! There were a couple of WCW story lines that played off this idea. CM Punk sure did imply it a few times during the Summer of Punk when he had promos with Triple H. There have been heel General Managers in the past who cheated/helped certain people – nothing ever too crazy. In my book, pro wrestling should avoid ‘breaking the fourth wall’ at all costs. Doing it once every few years is fine to create a buzz. Living and dying off that gimmick (see WCW’s last days) is just pointless and more trouble than it’s worth. We are in 2013 and have been exposed to FAR TOO MANY things in the business as it is. Translating that on to the screen is just not neccisary. We KNOW it is all a show; there is no need to remind us each and every week.

When watching Breaking Bad, do the characters stare at the camera and wave to a buddy at home to ‘break the fourth wall?’

Did the cast of LOST joke about the plane crash and just call it a stupid story line before high fiving each other?

Do the lawyers during an episode of Law and Order storm off stage and complain about their contract status to the producers?

Of course not. All of that would be ridiculous. Wrestling may be a bit different than most shows/sitcoms. In the end though, Raw (or Smackdown) is still a scripted TV program with actors playing roles. You should stick to that 99.99999% of the time. Again, read the three examples I listed. You can take that for any TV or movie. I KNOW it is scripted; I don’t care to have it thrown in my face. That is what it feels like to me when WWE is ‘breaking the fourth wall.’ No thanks. Just give me a story line with a good guy battling a bad guy with a title on the line/purpose. That’s it. Keep the other nonsense out of the picture…

We roll on with a question from Ben concerning the infamous Bret Hart vs. Hulk Hogan feud:

In Bret’s book, he states that during 1989/1990, Vince had given Hogan control over his bookings. I assume this means Hogan can pick and choose when he worked, but I was wondering if Hogan also came up with his own angles. Sometimes the way Hogan was booked made me scratch my head. During the buildup to Wrestlemania V, he was totally booked as the heel.

Just to keep this simple, I’m going to break this down in sections.

1. I love reading autobiographies from wrestlers. Some of them are great. Others are good. A few have disappointed, but on the whole – they are worth the time. However, ALL of them are extremely biased. Of course, Bret Hart will have his own version. Hulk Hogan will have his version. Vince McMahon will probably sees things in a different light. I’m sure under card guys will remember the situation completely different as well. No offense, but Bret telling a story about himself doesn’t hold much water.

2. That being said, I will say the same thing about Hogan. Ask him the same question about 1989/1990; he will tell you an opposite recollection. It is his usual nature. Eric Bischoff’s autobiography was filled with the typical “I was right, everyone else was wrong’ stories. Sadly, there is a fine line between ‘reality/fiction’ when writing an autobiography about your own life. Strange, huh?

3. As for Hogan having control, I am sure he did for the majority of his career. Same with Shawn Michaels. Just like Stone Cold did in the late 90’s during the Attitude Era, The Rock in the early 2000’s or Triple H…ever. If you don’t think The Undertaker picks his story lines each year for WrestleMania, you are kidding yourself. If you don’t think John Cena has a say in his creative direction, you are a fool. Every single top star in ANY era has been involved with their own stuff. Once again, Bret Hat saying something about Hulk Hogan does not mean much. Not exactly an unbiased source…

4. WrestleMania V ties into a lot of Hogan story lines. He certainly seems like the ‘good guy,’ but it does not always look that way. A current example is Sheamus. Doesn’t he go around kicking people and making fun of their names unprovoked? He stole Alberto Del Rio’s car last year! A lot of his actions are questionable but are passed off as being ‘funny’ and harmless jokes. Remember, WWE ran a story where Punk was booed for preaching a Straight Edge lifestyle with no drugs or alcohol in his system. Yet, Jeff Hardy was cheered for being a ‘free spirit’ who stays true to himself. Yeah, do the math there! In the end, it’s all in the presentation. Whatever WWE wants, WWE gets.

Jason wants to keep us all on Hogan. Great!

Nowadays, its pretty impossible to keep things hidden in pro wrestling in terms of debuts, heel/face turns, even knowing future title holders. Back in 96, the internet was no way as accessible as it is today. I was on a 2 or 3 year hiatus from watching, so before Hogan turned heel at the Bash, was there any knowledge of this happening from outside of the company? Or a better way to ask my question is if back in 96. I was as into wrestling then as I am now and was one of the few that had internet access and followed a wrestling site like this one, would I have known this was coming? Was it a given to most fans based on some sort of on air foreshadowing on Nitro? To my knowledge, Hogan was on vacation or leave when Hall & Nash debuted. Did anyone know was coming back at the Bash? Obviously, I watched the Bash after the fact and you can clearly tell (to me at least) that he is the 3rd member of the nWo when he comes out, but if I was following at the time, would I had been like WTF just happened or would I have it coming weeks in advance?

Bobby Heenan knew it was coming…

WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?

As you mentioned, the ‘dirt sheets’ were very taboo back then. Clearly, the scene in 2013 is not even close to how it was in 1996. That being said, Vince McMahon was smart enough to never turn Hogan heel. WCW was desperate and in need of a huge buzz. The only rabbit to pull out of their hat? Hulk turning heel! Eric Bischoff (reliable or not) wrote about having the idea to turn him heel ever since his arrival in WCW. Hogan has said in recent interviews (reliable or not) that he would have turned heel earlier in his career but was always denied. Whether you want to trust any of this or not is up to you. It does seem to confirm that there was at least SOME talk about doing it beforehand.

That being said, some news sources actually did report that Hulk Hogan was planning to join the nWo. It seems impossible to believe, but for those few fans reading the ‘dirt sheets’ at the time, they knew. Dave Meltzer (Wrestling Observer) had the same story as others but kept reiterating that Hogan was not for sure 100 percent sold on turning heel leading into the pay-per-view. I can’t fault the guy one bit. It was a HUGE risk for The Hulkster to take. His popularity had gone down, but he was still a megastar making millions of dollars. He did not HAVE to do anything. Obviously, we can use hindsight and history to look back on. In 1996 though, that decision had to lay heavy on Hulk’s mind. In the end, he did agree to the story line. The back-up plan was for either Sting or Lex Luger joining the nWo as the ‘third man.’ Both would have been fine but nothing close to Hogan turning.

Darren brings up TNA next. Why must he torture me? I don’t know.

Do TNA have some deal with OVW, and which current OVW wrestler can you see making an impact in TNA?

Interesting. Was that a pun? Judges…

Truth be told, I do not follow OVW. I barely care enough to read the TNA results each week. From what my understanding, TNA uses OVW as their ‘unofficial’ developmental system. I say unofficial because WWE recently signed an OVW wrestler. Therefore, it is nothing exclusive or their own. That makes it pretty pointless then if WWE can just sweep in and sign anybody they want. As for making an impact? Well, Hulk Hogan, Sting, Booker T, Tara, Mickie James, RVD, Jeff Hardy, Scott Steiner, Kurt Angle, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Dudleyz, King Mo, Ric Flair, Eric Bischoff, Orlando Jordan, Rampage Jackson, reality stars, athletes and others have meant absolutely nothing to television ratings. Thus, I don’t have much faith in an unknown OVW wrestler doing anything. Sorry!

Remember the Denver Debacle in 2009? Allen certainly does!

I have a few questions regarding the double booking incident in Denver in 2009. In that year, the WWE booked the Pepsi center for RAW, but Stan Kroenke (owner of the both the Denver Nuggets and Pepsi center) booked a playoff game for the same night. I know that the WWE ended up moving RAW to L.A. (home of the Denver Nugget’s opponents), and Vince spent a lot of time bad-mouthing Kroenke. Was there any legal fallout? It seems to me a rather open-and-shut case on the part of the WWE…they had a written contract, and Kroenke broke it. Even if the WWE was able to move their show to L.A., they could at least sue for partial damages. And if the WWE didn’t follow through, do you have any opinion why they didn’t? I did find references to the WWE holding shows at the Pepsi Center in 2010. Do you know anything about how that show came to be? Did the Pepsi Center offer any sort of concessions to the WWE to lure them back, or did the WWE just figure they could make more money using the Pepsi center rather than other smaller venues in the Denver area?

What a fun week that was.

There are three things to make of this whole situation. First, I have no source or link, but I seem to recall WWE getting a nice payment out of this all. Maybe $50,000 or somewhere around that to cover travel costs? That takes care of any legal threats. Secondly, Denver has been a good wrestling market for a long time. Money always wins out. WWE has run into similar problems with cities all over the country. If the fans will come out to support the product, a show will be held there despite any past issue. Finally, as you mentioned, Los Angeles came in to save the day and host Monday night Raw. This is my personal belief, but I think WWE really appreciated that. Years later, L.A. still gets Summerslam each year. It may be due to Hollywood parties and making connections, but deep down – the city helping out WWE during the Denver Debacle in 2009 may play a role as well.

I’m not his biggest fan, but Connor wants to discuss Shelton Benjamin and his WWE run in 2004…

It always puzzled me in 2004 as to why Shelton Benjamin got a big push but Charlie Hass didn’t. Benjamin goes to Raw, gets two wins over Triple H, beats Flair at Backlash and wins the IC title while Hass gets traded to Smackdown, forms a team with Rico (of all people) wins the Tag Team Titles, gets squashed by Luther Reigns at The Great American Bash and becomes a total jobber. Was there any reason for that? Did he do something to annoy/anger creative or the office? He is a great underrated talent.

A little of both actually.

WWE just saw more money in Shelton Benjamin as a single’s star. He was sent to Raw – the premiere show. That was the first clue. Obviously, working with Triple H in the main event of Raw your first night helps send that message as well. Haas, on the other hand, was shipped off to Smackdown. I don’t know if he was in a relationship with Miss Jackie yet, but you have to assume that played a part. Maybe they were not a couple yet? Is there an official timeline on romances backstage? Either way, it just goes back to talent. If I asked you (and all the readers) to pick just ONE of the two for a solid push in WWE – Haas or Benjamin – who would you choose? My guess is most would favor Benjamin, just as the company did during 2004.

There were some rumors of Charlie Haas and creative having differences. All you have to do is go through a quick Goggle search. The man is not afraid to speak his mind, let’s just say that. It certainly could have led to his dismissal in 2005. He did come back to WWE in early 2006. A few years later though, he was released again. Shelton Benjamin was shown the door soon after. Now, rumors of their returns pop up every few months. I assume a return for Benjamin is likely at some point. Haas apparently retired recently, but we know how those go in the wrestling business. About talent, I liked them best as a tag team. Fair or not, some wrestlers are just simply better off as a pair. That is not to say they both suck as solo performers. I’m not saying that at all. It just seemed to click with them as a duo out there in the ring much more than whenever they went their separate ways.

Mr. Hernandez brings us back…all the way to April 2013.

I know you aren’t a lip reader (or maybe you are), but do you have any idea what The Rock and John Cena were talking about in the ring for nearly a full minute when their match ended? It sounded like Cena was being complimentary of The Rock, and even thanked him at one point.

Well, let’s go to the video (skip to the 25 minute mark):

You are right. Lip reading is not my cup of tea. However, I did see (or hear) what you mentioned – Cena thanking Rocky. Also, it was clear to hear The Rock say something along the lines of ‘Two years ago, I came back for this one moment right here.’ There was a lot of pointing at the WWE Title, and I thought the word ‘respect’ was used once or twice. In my opinion, there were two main points to take away from this whole scene after the match.

1. It reminded me of The Rock vs. Stone Cold after their WM XIX match in 2003. The two had a full on conversation inside the ring and didn’t care who noticed. It was a perfect scene for their last meeting ever. Could WM29 be Rocky’s final match? We shall see.

2. It just further cemented what many (including myself) suspected from the moment Rocky returned to WWE in February 2011. His ONE goal was to put over John Cena clean in the middle of the ring. That was it! He didn’t come back to wrestle CM Punk, R-Truth, The Miz, or any other non-sense. The end game was always raising Cena’s arm. Two years later, we got that picture to close WrestleMania 29.

Joe wants to know about any future WWE DVD titles coming out…

Is there an email or some sort of communication to send feedback to WWE about DVDs, mainly suggestions for future sets?

Send a tweet to Triple H or Vince McMahon on Twitter. Surely, that is REALLY them…

…

Where are those Chandler pictures when I need them? Okay, just kidding. WWE does have a “Contact Us” page on their official website. I suppose that may be a nice place to try. Also, the company occasionally sends out surveys looking for feedback on future names/titles/ideas. Outside of that, I would say WWE has a firm plan in place for DVD releases. It really does not matter too much what people request or even decline until it comes out. Their tape library is so large they can pretty much do whatever they want with old videos. If a DVD set sells well, the message is well received. If it bombs, WWE will realize their mistake and never do that specific genre again.

We switch gears a bit with discussion about Paul Heyman and Eric Bischoff, thanks to Ramma!

Do you think the McMahon family will ever allow for Paul Heyman to be in the WWE HOF and if so, who would induct him and how far down the road will it be? Also, same question for Eric Bischoff.

To be honest, I was half expecting Paul Heyman to be inducted this past year. He came back to WWE in 2012 and was heavily involved with the programming. From CM Punk to Brock Lesnar to even some stuff with The Shield, he did great work last year. Nobody ever knows how long he will be around, so why just do it as soon as possible? The ceremony was taking place in New York City. Obviously, Paul E had history with the city. It made sense to me. However, WWE went with different guys. My guess is they didn’t want to mess with his ‘heel character’ on television to try and break away from that the night before Mania. In the future, there is no doubt he will go at some point. There really isn’t ONE GUY that springs to mind for inducting him. Maybe have a group of ECW stars do it? I don’t imagine Brock Lesnar, Undertaker, or Stone Cold giving a speech for him. Who knows? Readers – who would be a nice fit to induct Heyman? Help!

Eric Bischoff is still working with TNA Impact Wrestling. Thus, you can count him out of the discussion for at least another year or two. Like Heyman, it is inevitable though. WWE will happily induct him down the road. The two sides have done good business in the past, and WWE does not care one bit about him being in TNA. Once that adventure ends (Bischoff in TNA), WWE will still be around looking for 5-8 talented performers for their HOF each year. At some point, Easy E will have his name called. An inductor for him? Oh wow. Hulk Hogan would work, but he is also with TNA – rule that out. Even with WWE getting Ric Flair to appear at their HOF Ceremony last year while still being with TNA, I can’t see them doing the same for Hogan/Bischoff.

My Darn Opinion

You know what really grinds my gears?

I don’t understand the hate for Triple H and never have. If the man stunk up the joint every week, I would get it. If his wrestling skills were terrible, I’d get it. If he bombed in the television ratings/PPV buys, I’d get it. If his promo skills were bland and stale, I’d get it. If he never worked his way up the card, I’d get it. However, Triple H paid his dues and constantly comes through. What is the issue?

Now that he is behind the scenes, it has been nothing but positive changes. Bringing in countless independent wrestlers, changing the FCW/NXT scene, focusing on tag teams/divas, wanting longer title reigns, having debut vignettes for new stars, pushing Damien Sandow and Curtis Axel have all been credited to The Game. I’m sure there are more as well. Doesn’t sound do bad, huh?

As for the tired complaints…

Chris Jericho lost in the main event of WrestleMania X-8. Um yeah, Triple H was returning from injury and had won the Royal Rumble. Expecting something else? So your precious RVD didn’t win the title in 2002? Big deal. Triple H just got the title, and it made zero sense for him to drop it a few weeks later. Rob Van Dam was given the ball in 2006 and got arrested three weeks later. There you go! Booker T was supposed to get the World Title in 2003. REALLY?!?! I don’t think so. It just seems like HHH was the scapegoat for a couple ‘favorites’ not getting the belt at a certain time. Last I checked, Triple H all but MADE Randy Orton, Batista, Sheamus and had no issues losing to John Cena (and more) clean in the middle of the ring at the grandest stage of them all. Man, that big ego of his! How many matches has he won the past few years again?

Bottom line: He has more than earned his spot. At some point, you just have to let go of some stuff. A few ‘wins’ or ‘losses’ from over a decade ago mean nothing to me. It is 2013 folks! The guy has a passion for the business like few others. Shouldn’t we all WANT a man like that in charge of WWE going forward? It’s not like he is in it just for the money and will tank the company. Triple H loves wrestling and will do everything in his power to make it successful. He has my vote of confidence. How about YOU?

Self-Promoting Finale

Now, let’s get some “ME!” plugs out there for all of you…

Why Daniel Bryan Shouldn’t Become WWE Champion
Top 5 Attitude Era Mistakes
RVD Returns To WWE & What It Means
Top 5 Canadian Born Wrestlers Ever!
WWE Debate: Smackdown Or Raw?
Mark Henry: Future WWE Hall of Fame Inductee?
What Raw Segments Gained/Lost Viewers?
Top 10 WWE Smackdown Moments (6/21/13)
WWE Raw Questions To Answer
Top 20 WWE Raw Moments (6/24/13)
Ranking Every MITB Cash-In: Worst To Best
Send Ask 411 Wrestling Questions: [email protected]

Until next time, read those columns, send feedback, and let me know what you think!