wrestling / Columns
411 Fact or Fiction 07.18.13: Orton, Rhodes, Destination X, More
Hi, hello & welcome to 411 Fact or Fiction! I’m Steve Cook, and it’s been another crazy week in the world of wrestling. Randy Orton was the big winner in the Money in the Bank All Stars match thanks in large part to Paul Heyman, who screwed CM Punk over on Sunday night and sicced Brock Lesnar on him Monday night. Some have argued in the past that somebody like Punk wouldn’t be believable against Brock. Cody Rhodes was on the verge of winning the Money in the Bank Rising Stars match until his best buddy Damien Sandow took him out. The Usos gave the Shield a good match on the MITB YouTube pre-show & won a match against the Real Americans on Monday night. Dolph Ziggler broke AJ Lee’s heart on Raw, then Big E Langston broke him. Destination X will be LIVE AND FREE Thursday night on Spike TV. ROH’s World Title Tournament is set.
I’ve invited two of 411’s finest to discuss these topics. Introducing first, everybody’s favorite fill-in SmackDown recapper…Scott Rutherford!
His opponent is my tag team partner for the Ocho podcasts! We’re currently watching all the Royal Rumbles while talking about them. We can’t believe 411 is actually posting them, but we’re very grateful. Give it up for Trent Howell!
1. Randy Orton was the correct choice to win the Money in the Bank All-Stars match.
Scott Rutherford: FACT. For weeks leading up to the match and just in general Randy has been a clear #2 babyface in the promotion. Daniel Bryan has had his waves but in terms of consistent reactions Orton’s been at the tippy top. More importantly thanks to C.M Punk, John Cena and The Rock he’s been out of the WWE Title picture for some time. While hardly a “fresh” face in the main event he certainly adds another dimension to the top of the card and the intrigue of when the inevitable heel turn will happen has had new depths added to it.
Trent Howell: FACT. At first blush you’d think fiction. But he’s really the only option. RVD getting money in the bank as he returns for a part time gig makes no sense. CM Punk doesn’t need MITB as he is about to enter a program with Lesnar and is a legit title contender any time he wants to be. Daniel Bryan was who everyone wanted, but now that I think about it I think that D-Bry would be best benefitted from a clean shot and a clean win, without briefcase shenanigans. That leaves Sheamus, Christian, and Orton as the only possible options. All three of which would be a significant let down. Christian seems out of place going for the WWE title, and Sheamus. Well I just don’t like him. Not my thing fella. That’s leaves Orton, a surprise pick with some inherent credibility when it comes to the WWE title. Best case scenario this is the catalyst for a heel turn as he stalks champions. Worst case scenario we’ve at least reminded the fans that Orton is still somewhat of a main eventer. So in hindsight, I guess he was the right choice, even if you, me, and the Philly fans weren’t too pleased at the time.
Score: 1 for 1
2. CM Punk is a believable threat to Brock Lesnar.
Scott Rutherford: FACT. Anyone can be a believable threat if booked right. We have all seen it with Shawn Michaels who couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag but was credible against guys like Kevin Nash, Vader and Sid in the ring. With Punk/Lesnar you don’t really need Punk to be believable rather than capable of getting in offence in while getting beaten mercilessly by Lesnar. Punk has a great instinct for working these type of matches and I wouldn’t be surprised to see something in the mould of Flair/Vader where Punk pulls one out of the fire after being dominated but the bigger, stronger, scarier Lesnar.
Trent Howell: FICTION. That’s not to be taken as a knock on Punk because I’ve really come around on him and finally see what all the fuss was about when he was on the indy scene. But the fact of the matter is that no matter how many Gracie hoodies he sports, dude appears significantly outgunned. And that makes for a good story. There have been plenty of great storylines where the babyface appears completely outmatched and overcomes the odds. Maybe Punk has finally bitten off more than he can chew. He’s the underdog and doesn’t have Heyman in his corner to help him overcome the odds anymore. It’s a good story and with the promos cut Monday I wouldn’t be surprised if he won the match. But to imagine someone the size of Punk defeating someone the size of Lesnar requires some suspension of disbelief. Which by definition makes him a non-believable threat. It’s cool I don’t mind suspending disbelief in my wrestling. Just keep Brock off the mic and let Heyman and Punk do their thing and it will work I promise you.
Score: 1 for 2
3. Cody Rhodes will be successful as a babyface.
Scott Rutherford: FICTION. I don’t dislike Cody Rhodes but all the same I could care less about him. I understood the need for him to be a heel so he could exist outside the shadow of his famous father but truth be told he has never shown enough personality and charisma to be a good babyface. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to be proven wrong. Though after Money in the Bank where he got solid face reactions, I think it was because everyone else in the match was just completely un-sympathetic and the booking manipulated him to be face by default. Given no one else to cheer the smark-heavy crowd went for Cody. Time will tell.
Trent Howell: FICTION. I like Cody, I think he’s got natural charisma, a ton of athletic ability, works a good match and is starting with a hot storyline. There’s only one key element missing to ensure his success and unfortunately it’s the most important one. Cody is now dependent on the writers to get him over. Nothing in recent history shows me that the WWE writing staff has a clue on how to get an upper midcard babyface over. Hell they somehow have screwed up Kofi Kingston. If I were a betting man I’d say they somehow screw this one up as well. Sandow appears to be the one of the team that they are pushing to the moon and will benefit from the fact that the WWE writes heels so much better than babyfaces. I hope I’m wrong and they both get over, but history just isn’t on the side of the son of a son of a plumber.
Score: 2 for 3
4. The Usos will be the next WWE Tag Team Champions.
Scott Rutherford: FICTION. I LOVE the Usos. I think the WWE has missed the boat on these two like no one else in the last 5 years. The problem for them has been the dead tag team scene and the fact they’re twins and everyone just pairs them up. They’ve been cannon fodder for so long now it makes them a terrible choice to beat The Shield. Now if the champs stay undefeated for 8 months and they build up The Usos slowly and have them be credible then we may have something. My predication is the Wyatt Family may steal their thunder.
Trent Howell: FICTION. I’m so taken aback by the fact we have an actual multi month feud for the tag belts in 2013 WWE that this was actually the hardest question for me to answer. In the end though, I don’t think the sons of Rikishi are left standing tall. That would really leave the Shield with nowhere to go. I think the Usos are being used to give Rollins and Reigns something to do over the next little bit and then eventually put them over. That said, if the preshow to MITB is any indication, I’m looking forward to it. I’m a huge fan of tag team wrestling and I thought that was a pretty darn good match highlighted by the tower of doom spot. I’ll take another please!
Score: 3 for 4
SWITCH!
5. Big E Langston will be AJ Lee’s next on-screen boyfriend.
Trent Howell: FICTION. I know many people may not like it, but AJ has the best women’s storyline we’ve seen in years going on right now. The next logical conclusion would be Big E filling the role of her beau. I just don’t see it though. In addition to being a monster in terms of size what we’ve seen from Big E is that he quietly observes everything around him, only commenting in a smart assed tone. Or with violence. He’s calculating about it almost. I get the feeling Big E is seeing the writing on the wall and while he has no problem being AJ’s muscle, I doubt he would go down such a road with her. My point is, the next logical progression of the story IMO is after the Big E/Dolph matches we see E reject the advances of AJ sending her further down a spiral and possibly turning E face. Anything that gets him more mic time. I don’t know why but that dude cracks me up. More Big E!
Scott Rutherford: FICTION. I was going to say who cares? Really, as much as AJ is an entertaining character, we really don’t need to see her with ANOTHER man so quickly. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if management are a little gun-shy about pairing the two up. I don’t mean this in terms of black/white. I mean it in terms of he’s so fucking HUGE and she’s the size of my 12 year-old daughter. If they had sex he’s split he in half and she’d be walking funny for a year. There’d be a very real chance they he wouldn’t so much tear her a new one but rather join up the existing two she already has. He’s fine as a bodyguard and maybe a little overzealous protector. She had the perfect match up with Dolph Ziggler but they messed that up now.
Score: 4 for 5
6. Destination X should still be a PPV event instead of an Impact episode.
Trent Howell: FICTION. One of the only truly smart moves TNA has made in recent memory was cutting down to four live ppvs a year. The PPV market is overly saturated right now and with WWE and UFC having shows every month there’s not much money left in people’s budgets for a TNA show. Even if you were opposed to the WWE and UFC there’s always a handful of ippvs that you could watch (or in the case of ROH pay for and not watch). So TNA did the smart move and backed off their number. This has two positive effects. One, it gives an air of importance to the pay per views that do remain, something which they will hopefully be able to capitalize on. While you can skip a monthly show, with correct booking these four events may well become must see tv for their audience. Second, it allows you to build more important episodes of impact. Having a special episode such as a Destination X episode will bring in new viewers and if you put on a good show they may just come back next week. All in all a smart move by TNA Panda Impact Wrestling.
Scott Rutherford: FICTION. Simple reason, they don’t have the talent anymore. I guess you could strip mine guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels from the main event but you face the issues of having you top talent beat the few X Division guys you have or you have the X Division guys win killing your main eventers. If I was TNA I would bring in some heavy duty Mexican and Japanese talent and load that puppy up with megaspot matches then maybe look at it as a PPV. Right now, we don’t needs to see Zema Ion attempting to cripple anyone else.
Score: 5 for 6
7. The field for ROH’s World Title tournament is impressive.
Trent Howell: FICTION. I’m sorry but I don’t give a crap. Things looked interesting at first when it appeared like it was going to be a bunch of older vets from years gone by coming back in, but as they’ve increased the field up to 16 names things have gotten a bit more watered down. I’m sure to ROH fans the tournament field is impressive, and I’ll freely admit that I think a tournament is the right move for them right now as there are some bad tastes that people may want to get out of their mouths from various and assorted indiscretions on the part of ROH. However, as someone who isn’t a ROH fan I look at this field and I’m neither impressed nor interested in watching the tournament (which is fine, it’s not like they run this part of the country anyways).
Scott Rutherford: FICTION. I’m not the biggest ROH fan in the world and I tried to give them a red hot go when they moved to Sinclair but when I saw an interview with Kevin Kelly (who looked like a small toad in WWF) towering over Eddie Edwards it drove home the lack of appeal for me. The field itself is not that impressive and if the rumor that the #16 is someone “major” it would have to be something huge to pick this field up. My gut says it will be Colt Cabana which would pop the crowd but do exactly ZERO for the promotion.
Score: 5 for 7
8. Internet wrestling fans spend way too much time complaining about people that attend wrestling shows.
Trent Howell: FICTION. If you would have stopped after complaining I would have agreed with you because I do think there’s a bit much of it on the internet. I try not to overthink wrestling. But in context I think the audience reaction is something that is worth discussion. This has come up multiple times recently but I think the big kerfuffle lately was the Husky Harris chant a couple of weeks ago during the Wyatt family debut. I went back and re-watched it and it detracts from an otherwise awesome segment. We talk all the time about how crowd reactions can make a match (Rock/Hogan, Cena/RVD) and sometimes they can also detract. In the context of the discussion on the internet which does sometimes enter (sometimes justified) complaining, this is perfectly in line.
Scott Rutherford: FACT. I will amend this question to be…Internet wrestling fans and live crowd “smart fans” spend way too much time being smarky fuckheads. I would include myself in that as well BTW. From the bores that still chant WHAT! during promos to the fools that just HAD to chant Husky Harris at Bray Wyatt last Monday…I get that you paid your money and that gives you license to say what you want but if you’re going to be so supercool smart about what’s happening then you’ve just worked yourself because you paid good money to do something you could do in front of the TV for free.
Final Score: 6 for 8
Trent & Scott agreed most of the time this week, and I’m sure they both agree that they are looking forward to the next edition of the 411 Wrestling Hot 100!
That’s right folks, the 4th annual 411 Wrestling Hot 100 is coming next Monday! It’s the time of year where I rank all the ladies of wrestling & everybody loses their mind. It’s good times. Make sure you’re here for that, and make sure to come back next Thursday for more Fact or Fiction!
