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Ask 411 Wrestling 07.24.13: Edge’s Legacy, Rikishi As World Champion, Ultimate Warrior, More

July 24, 2013 | Posted by Justin Watry

We are back and better than ever!

Okay, maybe not. Once again, the past seven days has been a roller coaster in the world of wrestling. Some moments were shocking. Others were expected but still enjoyable. In between, WWE gave us some great in-ring battles as well. You can’t ask for much more than that as a fan. Who knows what is in store for the NEXT seven days?

While we wait, there is this always Ask 411 Wrestling to get you by the week! I know everyone is excited over that notion. Like previous editions, the feedback was mixed. This continues to be a work in progress for me, changes are being made each week and will find its groove soon. The best is yet to come…

*insert your own joke now*

BANNER!

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Backtalking

I trust my TNA source. When he tells me their ladders are plastic, I believe him. As for any confusion about usernames, I do not even have an account to use the comment section on 411mania. Anything written there is not from myself, nor do I know anybody personally who comments. My platform is this column; there’s no point for me to voice my opinion elsewhere. Outside of that, everything from last week was fairly straight forward. Just a simple reminder: All of YOU pick the topics, not me. The email address is listed below.

Your Turn, Smart Guy…

It seems as if there was some controversy over last week’s winner. Since we are on the subject, I am going to let all of you in on a little secret. I do not read the comments until (at least) Wednesday afternoon/night. At that point, comments could be edited, deleted, changed, posted, etc. All the while, I would have NO idea. Therefore, I am going to take the word of DarthDaver and crown him last week’s winner! Apparently, there was some kind of cheating going on. Come on folks, let’s play fair. It is just a weekly trivia contest on a wrestling column.

As for THIS week’s winner, that (ironically) goes to Bronze My Johnson! Hopefully, there was no ‘fixing’ this time. He correctly named every nWo member from February 2002 to July 2002. Those men were Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, X-Pac, Big Show, Shawn Michaels, and Booker T! I did not want to include Ric Flair because the entire situation surrounding his short lived heel turn was strange. This week, let’s try something that will make you think a little bit.

Not counting ANY of his matches with CM Punk or Royal Rumble events, name the last five times The Undertaker has lost at a WWE pay-per-view.

Questions, Questions, Who’s Got The Questions?

Let’s start off with some follow-up on last week’s topic from Brandon!

I always see on the 411 site about top 10 WWE pay-per-views or WCW events, but I’ve always wondered, what do you consider some of the best ECW pay per view shows? I’d like to see what the readers think as well.

Well, the great readers came through for you last week! Here are a bunch of ECW pay-per-views listed to check out:

Heatwave 98, Anarchy Rulz 99, Heatwave 2000, Anarchy Rulz 2000, Barely Legal 1997, Guilty As Charged 2000, November to Remember 97, Heatwave 99, Living Dangerously 99, Guilty As Charged 2001, Living Dangerously 2000, Hardcore Heaven 2000

If I missed some, my apologies. For Brandon or anybody else looking for some old school ECW, there you go!

We continue on with a question from Visakh on Twitter using the hashtag #Ask411.

Visakh K (‏@Rockstar_Vish) HBK fan from India here..! Do you think Cena would ever have been the top dog of WWE if Brock didn’t quit then? #Ask411

Hey, maybe my #Ask411 hashtag will garner up some interest after all? Or maybe not…

As for the question, I do believe John Cena was headed to the top regardless. Even when Cena and Brock were both on Smackdown, he was rising through the ranks. Lesnar left WWE in March 2004. At that point, Cena was a new baby face moving up the card, defeating Big Show for the United States Championship. Remember, that was WITH Brock still in the company dominating the main event scene.

Once he left though, that opened the doors even more. Big Show was hurt after WrestleMania XX. Edge went to Raw. Kurt Angle needed surgery. Brock Lesnar just quit. The Undertaker wrestled part-time. Stone Cold (not wrestling) did not stick around. Bill Goldberg left WWE. Mick Foley (stayed until Backlash 2004) and The Rock were not going to be around anymore. Like it or not, new characters were going to be given a chance to shine. Look at Bradshaw for a prime example…instantly transforming into JBL and winning the WWE Championship. One of the guys who benefited the most from this huge hole in the roster was John Cena.

However, it was inevitably coming. I think the process was just sped up once all the top stars left in 2004. Just like if Shawn Michaels never retired in 1998, Stone Cold would be a main eventer anyways. The moment Cena debuted in 2002, it was only a matter of time. More than a decade later, he’s the top star in WWE…and nobody else is even close.

Before I continue, I do want to respond to Jason from last week’s comment section:

Question: Did the backlog get complied with or just dropped? I tend to remember Scorfina saying he had about 400 questions backed up.

Here is the deal folks!

There is definitely a backlog of questions in my possession right now. I have not actually counted them, but 400 would seem like a close estimate. Some of the VERY OLD questions have been answered in recent weeks. Others have been re-sent to me by readers just in case. Since many questions are outdated in July 2013, a good portion have been deleted. Sorry to say, but questions about CM Punk possibly ending the streak or John Cena winning the Rumble are pointless to cover now. Outside of that, a bunch of new questions are being sent each day. As noted before, if you choose to send in a topic, please do not hesitate.

Okay, now let’s get back to some wrestling topics! Here is some rapid fire from Nightwolf

Next year 2014 will be 30 years since Vince created WrestleMania. Thirty years since Vince took over the WWF and became Chairman. Don’t you think it’s time for Vince to stop being selfish and hand over the WWE to Triple H and Stephanie?

I don’t think it is being selfish. It is HIS company. Right or wrong, he is the Chairman and makes all the decisions even at his old age. Tell Jerry Jones how tough it is to step down. As for Vince handing over the WWE to Triple H and Steph next year? It is a possibility. To mark WMXXX, it would be a fitting time. I know HHH does not have the greatest reputation online (for whatever reason), but he is taking over the company with his wife. It is going to happen and could take place anytime.

You already read online report after online report (some I’ve confirmed, some not) about Triple H taking on more roles backstage. it may not be in one fell swoop, but right in front of our eyes – he is already taking over for Vince. Steph, of course, it right there along for the ride being a McMahon. Chris Jericho only added to this speculation when he mentioned his most recent contract was signed through Triple H alone and not Vince. I believe Rob Van Dam said the same thing recently – Triple H talked to him, not Vince. Not to mix kayfabe and reality too much, but the story line we see on Raw as we speak could very well turn the page on who runs WWE into the next generation.

Speaking of Vince why did he hire Eric Bischoff. That always made me wonder. Why would you hire the guy that tried to ruin your company? Doesn’t make sense to me.

You pretty much answered it yourself.

Eric Bischoff tried to put Vince McMahon out of business and failed. That would be the FIRST person I’d go and hire. Not just for ego but for his creative mind and competitiveness. Vince had to respect what Bischoff did and the strings he tried to pull. I would want that guy to be on MY team moving forward. On top of that, he was a great heel character. Forget all the backstage drama. Bischoff was fun to watch on TV. Vince knew that and showcased him on Raw for many years. Of course, you quickly remind him who is boss and signs the paychecks.

Speaking of things that didn’t make sense, why did Stone Cold turn on team WWF and join WCW/ECW? He hated both WCW/ECW with a passion. Why turn on the companies you hated?

Because unpredictable swerves and shocking moments that make no sense are ‘cool’ in wrestling!

Come on! Where are those Chandler pictures?

Relax, I’m just kidding. Stone Cold wanted to freshen up his act. He was getting tired of the same thing every month and wanted a change. He pitched the idea to turn heel at WrestleMania X-7 in front of his hometown fans. As smart as he is, the man HAD to know that had failure written all over it. To keep it going, Vince McMahon tried to help. Triple H tried to help. Even Jim Ross helped out, but getting the snot kicked out of him. Months later, fans didn’t buy it. He was slowly turning back face by doing comedy segments with Kurt Angle, and everything was back on track for him to be a good guy once again.

Sadly, the company wanted to try one last hail mary pass at Invasion 2001.

Stone Cold teased going back face, only to turn his back on the WWE and join the Alliance. My, oh my. Fool me once…

Looking back on it, I really have no idea what Stone Cold was thinking. His autobiography from a decade ago covered it fairly well. Steve Austin wanted a fresh look and direction, while good ol’ JR and everyone else knew it was going to fail. I guess nobody could say no to their top star at the time? Even so, he was back to being a face 3 months later. A few months ago, I wrote an article on the 5 biggest mistakes from the Attitude Era. I know many consider post-WM17 to be after the Attitude Era, but I listed Austin’s heel turn as number one. It was just so ridiculous. Tons of money was flushed down the toilet, viewers left in droves afterwards, and nothing ever clicked the same after that. Some blame the WCW/ECW invasion story line, but the train was off the tracks WAY BEFORE that story line even took place. It started when Stone Cold got bored and wanted to play ‘bad guy’ on television…

A year later, he walked out on the company.

I read somewhere that Vince McMahon doesn’t like violence. Do you think that’s the reason WWE has become family friendly over the years? And by over the years, I don’t mean this PG era everyone is talking about. When my dad was growing watching wrestling, it was the golden age of wrestling. You had Bruno Sammartino, Killer Kawasaki, etc. That was when wrestling was real.

1. Wrestling was never real. Sorry!

2. Read somewhere? I wouldn’t trust that specific story already. Anything you see on a wrestling website is to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Most are wrong; some are true though.

3. As you alluded to, the PG rating is nothing new. The entire basis of the Rock and Wrestling Era was kid friendly and rarely had violence. I just laugh when fans complain about the PG rating in 2013, yet clamor for the 1980’s/early 1990’s wrestling. The entire business has been about being family friendly for nearly 90% of its existence. The only time it wasn’t was from 1997-2001. Yet, those four years are somehow thought of as the normal product. It wasn’t. The Attitude Era was a rare, rare, rare, RARE time period in comparison the past 40 years of wrestling. It is not about violence or anything Vince doesn’t like. It just comes down to money. Who will spend money on t-shirts, programs, PPV events, tickets, meet and greets, foam fingers, glow sticks, hats, etc? All the kids with parents? Or a fan base who illegally streams a PPV online and doesn’t spend a dime on the product each month? I would choose a family friendly target audience.

To switch gears, Scottie asks about Sting and the Ultimate Warrior.

How different do you think the careers of both the Ultimate Warrior and Sting would have been if Sting had gone to the WWF and Ultimate Warrior had gone to WCW instead during the mid to late 80s. Would Sting still have gone over cleanly on Hulk Hogan at WM VI? Would Ultimate Warrior still have gone over Flair at the Bash ’90? On that same note, how different do you think both companies would have ended up as a result?

Warrior would be wearing extra large t-shirts over his ring gear in TNA, and Sting would be in the new WWE video game!

In all honesty, these questions all blend together. It is very similar to the topic on John Cena and Brock Lesnar covered above. Very few things (to me anyways) really impact the business in an earth shattering way. Many small moments happen and are great. However, very rarely does a HUGE event shift the entire landscape of the industry. If Sting vs. Hulk Hogan took place at WrestleMania VI, the result would have been the same. WWE wanted to move on from The Hulkster and was doing everything in their power to make the next top star. Of course, the one major difference would have been the after math. Sting would not have no-showed events and showed disrespect the locker room at every turn. He would have handled himself well and stuck around more as champion, instead of lose the belt less than a year later. On that same note, what happened with WCW would have still took place. Not to down play these kind of questions, but everything happens for a reason in life. Sting has alluded WWE all these years for a reason. Warrior beat Hogan and ‘self destructed’ just as fate had written it.

AJ Snugglemuffin asks about the infamous ‘Who ran over Stone Cold?” story line:

Cole and JBL have started again playing up that Rikishi is the dad of the Uso’s (it seems they ebb and flow with mentioning it, probably in line with the team’s push). It seems to be a foregone conclusion that the reveal of Rikishi as the driver of the car that hit Austin was a flop. But in 2013 terms, wouldn’t we (IWC) have been glad that WWE was attempting to develop a new top-tier star instead of using HHH, who didn’t really need an additional push or an excuse to feud with Austin or Rocky at that point? What if they had never included HHH in the incident whatsoever? Would Rikishi have kept his heat, or was HHH inserted when the crowd seemed to not be reacting appropriately? Rikishi turned back face after just a few months (and lower on the card as well)–was the crowd never going to accept him as a heel? Also, did Rikishi simply step into a era that was too star-laden? Could he have had more traction during a different era, and possibly a short world-title run (particularly during the two-title era of the last decade)?

Nice comments here – lots to get through.

You pretty much nailed it with Triple H. The entire mess with Rikishi was NOT working. His act was a ‘face’ character all the way, and fans ate it up big time! To turn that around and suddenly ran down Stone Cold? It was like trying to turn Jeff Hardy heel in 2010. Why? For what? It was never going to work and just felt like going against the grain…just for the sake of going against the grain. We (IWC, I guess) are always up for developing another top-tier talent, when the timing is right. Rikishi was getting over like nobody’s business. Just listen to his crowd reaction! I guess somebody thought turning him heel would capitalize on the momentum…um what?!?! It’d be like Cody Rhodes randomly turning face and winning the WWE Title next week. We all want him to be a main eventer but not like that. Rikishi never stood a chance after that. As you mentioned, he was a face again in no time and much lower on the card.

As for his potential in a different era? Good question. This feels like something the comment section would love to discuss. If you wish to voice your opinion, please do so! In my opinion, he WAS hurt by the Attitude Era just having so many top stars. From Chris Jericho to Kurt Angle to Triple H to Stone Cold to Undertaker to Kane to The Rock to Mankind to even guys like Eddie Guerrero, Chyna, Edge/Christian, and others – where in the world was Rikishi ever going to get his time? With Too Cool, he was working his way through the ranks. After that though and being on his own, it was an uphill climb in the largest way imaginable. As you mentioned, a ‘two-title era’ could have benefited him majorly. I would not be out of line to suggest his persona (in his prime, of course) certainly may have been able to become World Champion for a short awhile anywhere from 2002-2013.

We keep rolling with a question from Matt D about Edge and his legacy:

I was thinking about ranking wrestlers and all that. In my youth, when I first started watching “the other league,” as I called WCW for many years, Ric Flair was a six-time World champion and already being considered one of (if not THE) greatest of all time, and he would go on to hold ten more championships and wrestle for almost another twenty years (give or take). He is still talked about as an all-time great, along with guys like Steamboat, Hogan, Austin, Rock, Michaels and (ahem) Triple H. I know it’s sometimes hyperbole when the WWE says someone is an all-time great, but it’s pretty much understood that guys like Flair, Michaels, Hart, Sting, etc. are actually great and not “great.”

My point is that I don’t think that a lot of guys get the credit they deserve. For example; Edge. When people talk about the greats, or even the “greats,” they don’t often list him with those guys, at least, not yet. Maybe they will, but like I said, Flair was already called an “all-time great” when he was still in his prime. In fact, aside from his two appearances after his HOF induction, Edge rarely even gets mentioned on TV. He consistently put on great matches with everyone, held more titles than anybody in WWE history, and was great on the stick. I realize that he just wants to live on his mountain and be left alone, but why does WWE seem to ignore his contributions to the business, and yet will still talk about Jimmy Snuka, who never held a title in WWE, and may or may not have murdered someone? Is it because Edge was never The Man, even when he was champ all those times? I realize that a lot of this may be subjective, but I was wondering if you knew of any actual reason, or if the ‘E has just sort of forgotten about him.

Thank you for asking this.

I recently wrote a column about who was John Cena’s best opponent ever: Randy Orton, CM Punk, or Edge? Responses were varied. In a way, that surprised me. However, most of the support went to CM Punk (not surprising). I asked my readers why that was, and the reply was pretty basic. They felt too much time has been in between feuds. Right now, all you ever hear about is CM Punk vs. John Cena, CM Punk vs. John Cena, CM Punk vs. John Cena, etc. Heck, my current Raw match of the year for 2013 is CM Punk vs. John Cena from February. I can understand the lapse in memory from some fans.

In this topic, it is actually reversed. Edge has been treated VERY well by WWE. He was inducted into their Hall of Fame as the top act less than a year after retiring. He wrestled his final pay-per-view match at WrestleMania 27 as World Champion! The man was given an amazing DVD set on his life story months later. I’m not sure how much more respect could have been shown in his way. Like you mentioned, he won multiple titles, was king of the Ring, Royal Rumble winner, first ever Money in the Bank winner and competed in the MAIN EVENT (closing match) of WM24 with The Undertaker! Unreal career.

Anything that may feel like a lack of credit comes down to three things. First, he can’t really get physically involved. Even for Sgt. Slaughter, Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper, and other legends who come in, they can bump a little and move around. The Rated R Superstar can only talk, cut promos, and maybe commentate if asked. Secondly, is he even under contract? Legends deal? Anything? Maybe he does just want to hide in the mountains far away from the business? he has not showed up to any recent ‘big events’ on television for WWE, so I will assume Edge is happy doing his own thing. Thirdly, you mentioned it – he JUST retired. It has only been two years. In ten years, he will be remembered fondly. If fifteen years, he will be mentioned as one of the all-time greats. Give it time. I know many do not want to accept reality, but John Cena will go down in history as one of the greatest Superstars ever. Yes, ever! Do we recognize that in 2013? Not really. Give it another 10-15 years. Then we will see how his legacy is really represented.

Right now, I have a treat for all of you! The one and only Ari Berenstein has been kind enough to answer an ROH question this week from Lazlo! Big thanks to him.

Why did ROH take the title off Kevin Steen and give it to someone on their way out of the company? Even stranger, why would ROH follow up with a PPV featuring a main event title match where both wrestlers were leaving the company?

Ari responds:

It is strange that ROH would switch the ROH Title from Kevin Steen to Jay Briscoe, especially with he and his brother Mark’s contract coming due. The thing is, the switch to Jay Briscoe had been planned for a long time, apparently all the way back to when Steen first became champion. The bookers at Ring of Honor (including Hunter Johnson, a.k.a. Delirious) have been planning long term for a while now and for better or for worse have decided to stick to the plan. For example, during that time Michael Elgin came into prominence, but they did not switch the title to him. Also right before the title switch Jay suffered a bad shoulder injury, but he still worked the match and ROH still did the title change.

So why put the title on Jay, who was predominantly a tag team wrestler (albeit one with several incredible ROH Title matches in his resume)? Well, one reason would be that The Briscoes have been a heavily popular and featured act right from the start of the Sinclair Broadcast Group era and their syndicated television show. It would make complete sense to put the big title on one of their most marketable acts. Another reason would be that Jay (and Mark to a lesser extent), because of their connection to the beginnings of ROH, could represent the forces of “honor” in the big angle against the SCUM stable, which was the focus of the past year in ROH TV shows, house show DVDs and iPPVs.

The Briscoes wanted to explore opportunities and chose not to re-sign with ROH immediately. It was the contract coming due that sped up the road to the inevitable brother-versus-brother singles match for the title, which is why it was the main event of Best in the World 2013. I also believe that ROH officials were okay with Jay not losing the title despite the end of his contract, as that would create a first-time ever scenario- a vacant championship and the need to do a full Ring of Honor World Title Tournament. That tournament has been used as a marketing tool to boost interest in the product and also serves as a sort of a reboot (without calling it a reboot) for the company in terms of roster and storyline in the aftermath of the SCUM angle. Jay versus Mark and their respective “write-off” angles (beat downs by the SCUM faction) seemed to be great opportunities to put those plans into place. Yes, under normal and expected booking patterns, a departing act would not be pushed with a company’s main title or be in the main event, but would put over other talent who were staying around. It seems that ROH felt that wasn’t what they wanted to do or to get out of the Briscoes. It should also be noted that Mark Briscoe IS back in ROH, at least for one show (7/27 in Providence, RI). He, but not his brother Jay will be in the ROH World Title tournament, and each of their futures in ROH beyond that date is at this time unknown.

In closing, this topic will be for all of YOU out there! Angelo needs your help…

I wrote into this column last summer, and now I’ve got a new question I was wondering if you could help my wife and I and our family out with! In a Boy Meets World episode, there is a match between Jake the Snake Roberts and Vader in which 3 Boy Meets World characters are at ringside for, and celebrating after with Vader also! We were wondering was this match a real WWF match at a house show, and if so when was it from and where at? That would be so cool if it was because it would be two different shows interacting together! Also, still no look on the Shawn Michaels crank Double Dare thing yet, any luck finding out any information on that? This is what I wrote in last year and maybe your fresh eyes will have some new insight!

I have asked you this question once before and you looked a lot but got stumped like me and my friends and family wondering about this question, but I figured we’d have another go at it! We remember an early to mid 1990’s WWF show, either a Saturday afternoon (probably) or Sunday afternoon, in which The Heartbreak Kid Shawn Michaels had some kind of wacky circus or carnival event looking press and roller device in the ring, in which he sent Sensational Sherri through, flattening her in the process! I know it sounds odd, but multiple people remember this. We just don’t remember the specifics and have been trying for about 20 years to figure it out! I think it was yellow, blue, purple, and green, kinda looked like an old Play-Doh crank device! If you could solve this question and the other that would be INCREDIBLE for us! Thanks a lot for trying to figure em out!

Well, I tried. That counts for something, right?

Since my efforts came up empty, I now shift the focus to all of you reading this! Feel free to chime in throughout the comment section. Send me an email. Tweet me an answer. Any useful information would be greatly appreciated to help out Angelo here…..and GO!

My Darn Opinion

This little section pertains to the upcoming WWE Summerslam 2013 pay-per-view.

While writing a column (for another website), the topic of John Cena vs. Daniel for the WWE Championship came out. It was nothing out of the ordinary. Being the main event of such a huge event, it would surely be a hot topic right now. However, the way it was worded really got me thinking (shocking, I know). Going back to the final segment of last week’s Monday night Raw in Brooklyn, it felt big. Think about it for a second.

John Cena handpicked Daniel Bryan to wrestle him at the second (or third) biggest event of the year.

The TOP star in the entire industry selected Bryan instead of a FULL roster of talented guys.

Repeat: WWE scripted their biggest money maker from the past decade to choose Daniel Bryan over everybody else!

That is just amazing to think about. Throughout it all, the live crowd from Brooklyn was hanging on every word, motion, and action from this huge moment. Forget about some ridiculous gimmicked up briefcase. That shtick has been done time and time again since 2005. Bryan did not need that. In fact, he already went through that process in 2011. Randy Orton, a character in need of change, could use it more than anybody else right now. To headline Summerslam, Bryan got to be face to face with Cena another way.

Cena picked HIM!

Now, I am may be going out on a limb here, but this looks to be the 2013 version of Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior. Everybody remembers their epic clash at WrestleMania VI over twenty years ago. The ultimate challenge between two big WWE stars – one at the top for a long time, the other rising through the ranks in front of our eyes. Many assumed it was just another run of the mill victory for Hogan. The rest suspected Warrior was going to be the man who dethroned Hogan of the gold and take his place at the top of the mountain. In front of a packed house in Toronto, Warrior defeated Hogan clean in the middle of the ring to declare the beginning of a new era…and NEEEEEWWW WWE Champion! Ladies and gentlemen, expect the same at Summerslam next month.

My prediction: Daniel Bryan will be the next WWE Champion.

Self-Promoting Finale

Now, let’s get some “ME!” plugs out there for all of you…

Just follow me on Twitter! You can find all my columns there…

Justin Watry on Twitter!
Send Ask 411 Wrestling Questions: [email protected]

Until next time, leave a comment below and let me know what you think!

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