wrestling / Columns
411 Fact or Fiction 08.08.13: Orton, Del Rio and Rodriguez, Ortiz, More
Hi, hello & welcome to 411 Fact or Fiction! I’m Steve Cook, and it’s been another crazy week in the world of professional wrestling. It seems like everybody has arrived at the conclusion that Randy Orton will cash in his Money in the Bank title shot at SummerSlam. Alberto Del Rio ended his longtime association with Ricardo Rodriguez on Raw by killing him with ring steps. This was after Ricardo cost ADR a match against Rob Van Dam, who so far has been having solid in WWE but seems to lack direction. So far. The hot WWE rumor of the week is that NXT Women’s Champion Paige has not been called up to WWE because she isn’t 21 yet. She will be soon, so we’d like to wish her a good one! Kurt Angle got arrested for driving under the influence after last week’s Impact taping and has gone to rehab. Tito Ortiz was revealed as TNA’s newest biggest surprise. ROH’s All-Star Extravaganza show in Toronto was marred by an incident in the third match of the show involving BJ Whitmer getting injured after Michael Bennett piledrove him on the apron. My personal highlight of the week has been watching old GWF episodes on ESPN.
I’ve invited two of 411’s finest to discuss these topics. Introducing first, the MMA Fact or Fiction head honcho, Wyatt Beougher!
His opponent is part of the Wrestling 3 Rs family…Jack Stevenson!
1. Randy Orton will cash in his Money in the Bank title shot at a date other than SummerSlam.
Wyatt Beougher: FACT. While I don’t like Orton…or Cena…or the Shield getting disqualified FOR BREAKING UP A GODDAMNED PINFALL, I did like the stuff they did after the main event on Monday night. Orton’s a full-blown heel now, there’s tension between he, Cena, and Bryan, and the Shield have basically made it known to “The Apex Predator” that they control his future. The Orton turning heel thing we’ve known for a while now, but I really like that the Shield, who believe that MitB cash-ins are injustice, are actually following through with that aspect of their stable. Basically, what I’m getting at is that, with SummerSlam just under two weeks away, I think the WWE will let this storyline play out – Orton is going to come out and try to cash in his title shot, but then he’ll have to think better of it, because the Shield will back him down. Not only does it (hopefully) mean Daniel Bryan will get a real title reign, it also adds a new wrinkle to the MitB briefcase that we haven’t seen yet.
Jack Stevenson: FICTION. Disclaimer: I’m so terrible at making predictions, and my initial response to this statement was “oh I don’t know, why are you asking me?” I see the general consensus within the wrestling world is that Orton’s going to be cashing in the briefcase though, so I’ll say fact and then if I’m wrong I can blame everyone else. I don’t know though. People act as if Orton cashing in at Summerslam is a foregone conclusion and the only logical next step in his career, but I don’t see why it has to happen now, why Orton couldn’t stalk Cena or more likely Bryan for a little bit longer. It would certainly heighten the tension and anticipation, since Orton’s only laid out his Money in the Bank manifesto very recently. Still, I’m on the bandwagon now. Fiction!
Score: 0 for 1
2. Alberto Del Rio is better off without Ricardo Rodriguez.
Wyatt Beougher: FICTION. Is it easier to keep him heel without the fancy introduction that fans really started to love? Absolutely, but that’s just lazy booking. Of course, that’s assuming they actually split the duo up, as Del Rio has blamed losses on Ricardo before (the last time he was a heel), and Tensai regularly abused his manservant prior to becoming Sweet T (it’s the Million Dollar Man/Virgil dynamic), so it’s not even guaranteed that they’ll split up for any significant length of time.
Assuming they do pull the trigger and split them up? Ricardo has been such an integral part of the Del Rio character since his debut that it’s going to feel weird if he starts announcing/seconding another wrestler. Oddly enough, I think Ricardo will probably be better off without Del Rio, but I still think they should’ve gone a different way on Monday night.
Jack Stevenson: FICTION. Did Virgil and Ted DiBiase’s careers lift off after their split? Heck no, and Virgil’s face-turn was approximately 33 times more momentous than Ricardo’s. Rodriguez has always been an entertaining part of Alberto Del Rio’s gimmick and, while I’m sure he’ll be an likeable, sympathetic fan-favourite, I still think there was more mileage in the duo as a… duo. I don’t see Del Rio’s abandonment of him making any tangible difference to his direction, and I think for Rodriguez it could spell the beginning of the end of his WWE career, since I’m not sure where he fits after he finishes his feud with Alberto (assuming there even is one). I’m not hopeful about this split.
Score: 1 for 2
3. WWE should be doing more with Rob Van Dam.
Wyatt Beougher: FICTION. If anything, WWE should be doing LESS with Rob Van Dam. Sure, he’s motivated now, but how long is that going to last before we get T-N-A R-V-D, just mailing everything in and cashing a paycheck? For that matter, what has RVD done that’s really good for anything more than a nostalgia pop? He’s doing the same moves, set up the same way, and generally in the same sequences, that he did 10 years ago, which leaves his matches feeling stale. That’s not the kind of guy you want headlining too many shows for too long, or people are going to quickly lose interest. The only thing the WWE should be doing more of with RVD is using him to get the younger talent more over. Let Bray Wyatt Sister Abigail him after Harper and Rowan have roughed him up some (after all, anything they can throw at him would probably be tame compared to some of the stuff he did in ECW). Let Fandango counter some of RVD’s horribly contrived offense with dance moves so that they actually feel fresh. Or, hell, let Curtis Axel get a few meaningful wins over him while perfecting his tribute act to his dad. (Pun intended.)
Jack Stevenson: FACT. I’m not a big Rob Van Dam fan by any means, and I don’t think he should be challenging for the WWE Championship or anything, but since his return he’s surprised me with some impressive performances, and the crowd were clearly clamouring for him to win the Number One Contenders match on the 2nd August Smackdown. He’s picking up some notable wins, but Van Dam needs to do something more than that and quickly, before the novelty value wears off or his motivation dies down.
Score: 1 for 3
4. WWE should not call up people to the main roster before they turn 21.
Wyatt Beougher: FICTION. While I can understand the wisdom of it, I don’t think it should be a hard and fast rule. I don’t know if you remember when you turned 21, but I don’t think dedication to your craft and professionalism were necessarily the first things on your mind (I know they weren’t on mine), so calling a roster member up to one of the main shows shortly after their 21st birthday and introducing the added strain of travel and all the outdated “respect” nonsense in the locker room just seems like a recipe for making a newly-legal superstar find their way into the bottle.
With all of that said, if there’s a 19-year-old on the roster who shows the composure and dedication to handle the rigors of a brutal travel schedule and the hazing from other roster members, then by all means, let them do their thing on one of the main shows. I’m confident that those people exist, just like there are 25-year-olds who get disciplined for defecating in Divas’ gym bags. If the WWE is really waiting to promote Paige to the main roster until she turns 21 (which is in a few days), then it’s a pretty stupid oversight on their part, as she’s been legally able to drink in her home country for nearly three years now, so one would assume she is capable of conducting herself in such a way in public that she isn’t going to embarrass the WWE. There again, I feel like it should be on a case-by-case basis. I’d trust Paige to make better decisions while traveling with the main roster than I would Kurt Angle.
Jack Stevenson: FACT. I was originally going with fiction based on the case of Daniel Bryan, who was just ridiculously good even at the age of 20 and could have definitely offered something to the main roster despite his youth. But what turned Bryan from ‘one of the best on the indy scene’ to ‘the best wrestler in the world and a serious contender for the best of all time’ was the years he spent traversing the globe, perfecting his craft, and there is no 20 year old that wouldn’t benefit from doing that rather than being signed by WWE and wrestling the same, homogenous style, night after night. I don’t think there should be a blanket age limit or anything, but I certainly think WWE benefits long term by holding out on rough diamonds and waiting for them to become the polished, finished article.
Score: 1 for 4
SWITCH!
5. Kurt Angle going to rehab will fix the problems he’s had over the last few years.
Jack Stevenson: N/A. This is impossible to answer without knowing exactly what is going through Kurt Angle’s head. Some people are lucky enough to possess the willpower to kick their issues, and rehab does them the world of good. Other people drift in and out of clinics, unable to find the resolve necessary to turn their life around. I don’t think it is fair to pretend we know how Kurt will react, nor is it sensible to just stick our fingers in our ears and say “oh he’ll probably be fine, he’s in rehab now, they know what they’re doing!” I think we just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.
Wyatt Beougher: FICTION. Speak of the devil… I’ve long been a Kurt Angle fan (and sometimes apologist), stemming back to getting to wrestle the man when he was a college senior and I attended wrestling camp at Clarion University; however, I think the pattern we’ve seen here is that Angle screws up, owns up to it, gets help, and then carries on about his business for a while, until the whole vicious cycle starts over again. I’ve known people like that my entire life, some of them family members, some of them friends, and a lot of them co-workers, and the biggest problem that they have, and the reason that rehab and/or any other kind of treatment doesn’t work, is because they don’t think that they have a problem. To Angle’s credit, he did seem to take responsibility for his actions on Twitter (which is shocking, since his Twitter’s been hacked more than every other famous person’s combined), but I’m not holding my breath that that’s anything more than Kurt paying lip service to whatever the people around him (and the braintrust at TNA) have suggested that he do.
Like so many other people in the business, Angle has surrounded himself with enablers, and until Dixie and company put their foot down and demand that he take his treatment seriously, I don’t think that anything’s going to change. And it’s really a shame, because he has four children, two of them toddlers.
Score: 1 for 5
6. Tito Ortiz as the #August1Warning was a disappointment.
Jack Stevenson: FACT. Having worked hard to establish a reputation as the sanctuary for washed-up wrestlers in the United States, it is perhaps appropriate that TNA would now diversify into offering a home for washed up MMA fighters as well. Is anyone excited to see Tito Ortiz turn up in TNA? Does anyone see a hole in TNA’s roster that could only be filled by an MMA fighter eight years past his peak? The only thing Ortiz offers is the tiniest smidgeon of name value, some decent charisma, and being rather cheap with Spike presumably footing the bill, but that isn’t anything that really makes him look any less of a crushing disappointment.
Wyatt Beougher: FACT. I think Cook asked me to participate this week because I’m an MMA guy, but man, I couldn’t even get excited for this. First off, didn’t TNA learn anything from WCW? Ortiz showed up in a white Hummer, which pretty much spelled doom for the angle right there. If you need another example of how out of touch Bjorn Rebney, Dixie Carter, and whoever deals with them from Viacom are, look at it this way – Bellator finally announces that they’re moving to PPV, but rather than headline the show with one of their phenomenal and exciting young champions like Pat Curran or Michael Chandler, they trot out Tito Ortiz and Rampage Jackson, two guys who are a combined 3-8 THIS DECADE, and long past any real MMA relevancy. To hype up that fight, they partner with TNA and shoehorn both guys into a match that features two stables that people more or less stopped caring about months ago (Yeah, the MEM hasn’t been back that long, but this incarnation was stillborn). And if all of that wasn’t enough, they make a huge deal out the August 1st stuff, and rather than deliver someone who is actually a trained wrestler and could provide long-term benefit to the company, they pay it off with Tito Ortiz. I can’t decide if TNA deserves a dismissive wanking gesture for this, or simply a sad shake of the head.
Score: 2 for 6
7. A piledriver on the ring apron is never a good idea.
Jack Stevenson: FACT. Absolutely, and I don’t think there’s actually an argument to be made here- if you disagree with the statement, you want wrestlers to risk their livelihoods for a few seconds of mild entertainment on your part, and that doesn’t reflect well on you. I mean, it isn’t even that impressive looking a move, but even if it were guaranteed to leave audiences gasping, wrestling loses nothing but unnecessary paralysis risk by stopping competitors from dropping each-other on their heads on the most unprotected, precarious part of the ring. Ban the piledriver and, for that matter, all moves that involve someone’s neck and spine getting dropped on a ring apron. It really is not even slightly worth it.
Wyatt Beougher: FACT. I’m not going to say that all piledrivers are bad, as I firmly the believe the WWE is stupid for outlawing them in the first place (*unlessyou’retheUndertakerandcandowhateveryouwant*), rather than, y’know, training their employees how to do them correctly without putting their opponents at risk. But it feels to me like a piledriver to the ring apron would be awfully hard to make 100% sure that your opponent is protected. Having never received formal wrestling training, I could be wrong, but aren’t the offensive wrestler’s legs supposed to take the brunt of the impact of a piledriver? Trying to do that on a space barely wide enough to stand while simultaneously lifting and balancing your opponent’s weight seems like a whole lot of extra stuff to worry about, so it’s no wonder BJ Whitmer sustained an injury.
After watching a phone video of the piledriver in question, I don’t see any reason they couldn’t have done the same set-up and had Bennett powerbomb Whitmer into the ring or to the floor. Call me old-fashioned, but I don’t see the sense in doing spots just because you think it’s going to be “innovative”, especially if you’ve agreed to let your opponent put your health and livelihood in jeopardy like that. While I think it’s great that Whitmer trusts Bennett that much (well, probably trustED, now), at some point you have to draw the line. Hell, if they were hell-bent on doing a piledriver spot outside of the ring, have Bennett kick/toss Whitmer to the floor and do one there – Terry Funk did them for years to a who’s who of wrestlers and none of them were even temporarily paralyzed.
(And a bonus screw you to Bennett and Whitmer for actually making me agree, at least partially, with Mark Madden. I hate that fat windbag.)
Score: 3 for 7
8. You enjoy watching old wrestling.
Jack Stevenson: FACT. Of course I do! Who doesn’t? An odd statement to be sure. Old wrestling is great. It has Terry Funk and Eddie Guerrero and Bret Hart and Mick Foley and Arn Anderson and Rey Mysterio when he had knees. Modern wrestling doesn’t. It’s also got loads of great matches that 2013 can’t boast, like Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair, and great angles like the N.W.O, and promotions like WCW. And then there’s all the nostalgia and memories than come with it… yeah, old wrestling’s the bomb. I’d go as far as to say I actively prefer it to modern stuff.
Wyatt Beougher: FACT. If you don’t like watching old wrestling, I don’t want to know you. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not one of those guys who thinks nothing that they do today can compare to the “good old days”, but I do enjoy the nostalgia of watching guys like Angelo Poffo, Haystacks Calhoun, or Bruno Sammartino, and glimpsing a world of wrestling that was before my time (Bruno himself wasn’t, but most of his heydey was). More than that, I enjoy watching Flair, Steamboat, Hogan, Savage, and all the rest from when I was growing up, all the way up to ECW and WCW. There’s so much good wrestling available from every region and every era, but oftentimes, there’s a lot of crap that goes with it (not unlike today). Honestly, I think one of the biggest draws of watching wrestling prior to 1980 (when I was born), was that I don’t really know a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff that was going on, so it’s a lot easier to just sit back and enjoy the guys who laid the foundation for the business that we have today.
Moreover, I think it’s a lot harder to appreciate all of the good stuff that we see today without some kind of historical perspective. Randy Orton’s heel turn after the match on Monday night wasn’t particularly exciting for me, but I am interested in seeing how it plays out differently than when Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff turned on Hulk Hogan back in the mid-80s – it’s those nuances that really keep me interested, because I think we all know that the basic wrestling character archetypes and storylines have more or less all been used already. It’s the subtle differences that keep me coming back, and I really appreciate it when the wrestlers of today pay tribute to the men and women who came before. For instance, I probably wouldn’t have enjoyed Curtis Axle’s performance so much on Monday night if I hadn’t recognized how much of his father was in it. And continuing to watch (or re-watch in the case of Mr. Perfect) older wrestling is what fosters that appreciation.
Final Score: 4 for 8
Wyatt & Jack were on different pages early on, but came together at the end to ensure a .500 mark. Who did you agree with more? Let us know your thoughts on these topics down in the comment section. Thanks to Wyatt & Jack for participating, and we’ll be back next week with more Fact or Fiction!
