Truth B Told 2.10.06: Instant Replay
Posted by Bayani Domingo on 02.10.2006
Wrestling doesn’t have a challenge flag, plus my MTV WSX experience
I know, I know. Let's not even get into it ok? We lost….the Steelers executed, the Seahawks did not, and the ref's had money on point spread. Not that I think that the fact that the Steeler's winning would mean more merchandise and marketing opportunities for the team and the NFL would have anything to do with anything… but you know…something to think about. All bitterness aside, congrats to Hines Ward Super Bowl MVP and my half Korean brutha from a different father. Now onto some wrasslin'. I'll detail my trip to the MTV tapings below but let's hit the main course before you get to that sweet sweet dessert. Low and behold… there was another "questionable call" that took place last weekend at the PWG show. The only difference is that the Vegas mafia had nothing to do with this case.
The opening match of the night saw the team of Bino Gambino/Fergus Devitt/TJ Perkins battle NEMESIS/Disco Machine/Ronin. NEMESIS got the pin with a "Shock Treatment" and the Heels were celebrating outside of the ring as the faces looked defeated and confused inside…then it happened. Some of the fans were letting Ronin have it, in fact he was the only heel not to get any kind of face pop what so ever so having him get booed and jeered by the fans was a regular occurrence. I was seated about 10 feet from where the action took place but I clearly saw Ronin take a water bottle and spray some directly on the fan who was standing in front of him at the time. The fan was apparently booing Ronin to his face at the time. The fan was upset and threw his hat in the direction of Ronin but missed him by a couple feet, the hat landed at the foot of the ring apron. When the fan went to retrieve his hat Ronin stepped on it and kicked it a few times towards the opposite direction.
Now from here on it gets very fuzzy because I looked away for a few seconds thinking it was over but apparently Ronin took someone's water and poured it on the guy's hat, the guy then picked it up and either a) shook the water out of his hat in Ronin's direction to try to splash some of it on him, b) hit Ronin in the arm with his hat very weakly, or c) slapped Ronin in the face with said hat in a weak manner. Ronin then proceded to either punch or stiffly slap the guy in the jaw (depending on who you ask). Ronin then tackled the guy to the ground and proceded to lay in some punches to the face, side, head area of the fan for about 7 to 10 seconds before Chris Hero swooped in to pull Ronin off the fan and escort him out of the building. For those of you wondering, he used a form of a choke/sleeper hold and not a Cravat. The fan was then kicked out of the building. Ronin was seen throwing a bit of a fit as other wrestlers tried to calm him down and escort him out. This was NOT a work, this was a straight up "shoot" fight.
A little background on Ronin is that he just debuted new ring gear and he had a slightly cooler variant on his old mask and new red gear and pants tucked into his new boots that made him look like the Red Power Ranger. Ronin is listed at 6'1" and 230 lbs. the fan who was kicked out was about 5'8" and 170 lbs. Not exactly the fairest of fights, but that's not the point. The question that this all raises is who is at fault and who was out of line. This falls into the category of "fan etiquette" as well as "wrestler responsibility".
It's hard to know who is at fault here because at the last few shows things have escalated between the fans and the wrestlers. Super Dragon is ‘tweener who is also one of the owners of PWG and a big draw, but has recently gotten into some incidences of getting into the face of fans who are directly booing him and has even poured soda on a fan who was heckling him. Ronin also spit on a fan a few months back. Granted the fan base has started to grow and some of the crowd behavior has become more brazen. Some fans will go as far as to stand up and yell right at the wrestler as he walks by. Generally the crowd has been really hot for the matches and have provided a great reaction either "heel heat" or "pop" for their favorite or hated wrestlers.
Now while a fan should never lay a hand on a wrestler in a threatening manner the same could be said of a wrestler. There has been a lot of traffic on the PWG website and different accounts of the incident posted on the fan forum, enough so that PWG has had to address the situation.
This was taking from the PWG message board:
We are still waiting to review the footage and will decide how to proceed with the incident based on what we see. I'm locking the thread now, and the discussion can continue once a decision has been reached. Please be patient.
-Silverback
Site admin
Well it looks like they had camera footage from at least the hard cam that was at the rear of the JCC. It will be interesting to see what happens since the next show isn't scheduled for another month. Wrestlers have the right to defend themselves in the ring and outside of the ring, but the question remains is whether this was an act of "self defense" or a wrestler being frustrated by either the crowd reaction that night, or over several months, or if he just had a bad day and felt pushed over the line by this particular fan. A few months back a fan jumped over the barrier and was soundly beaten by HHH after he tried to get into the ring. It's an unwritten law that any fan who jumps the barrier is at the mercy of the wrestlers who are in it. Another case happened a few weeks back when Chris Hero was being taunted by a fan and made the "get in the ring and say that" gesture. The fan, stupidly, came into the ring, and was promptly handed a Hero-sized ass whoopin'. How ironic that it was Hero who actually saved the fan from a further Mighty Morphin Ronin Ranger beating.
In MLB or the NBA fans have been known to be obnoxious, however if a player were to go into the stands to confront a fan or pour water or soda on them they would be fined and suspended. Not to say that Indy wrestling is a real major league sport but it is a point of reference. Who this ever happen in the WWE or TNA, it might have but I have never heard of a wrestler being fined or suspended for that reason, then again I think that WWE is more conscious of that fact due to their vulnerability to lawsuits in a case like that.
I don't want to play the blame game here because obviously both parties were at fault. The situation kept escalating and none of the wrestlers, ring crew, or workers did anything to diffuse the situation. Ronin should never have poured water on the fan because that is considered "assault" in the eyes of the law, whether it is part of the "show" or not, if the fan was inclined he may have a case to sue the promotion. Whether it was out of frustration at his ongoing fan reaction, anger at that particular fan,or a ploy to garner cheap heat, or an attend to try to mimic Super Dragon, the reason was not justified. The fan was out of line for throwing the hat and then taking a swing at it in the direction of Ronin as well. Its really a case where too much testosterone and bravado got the better of both participants and it ended very badly.
Conclusion… wrestlers, don't resort to cheap heat to get a heel reaction. Especially when you already get a huge heel reaction already. Hear that Orton? Laying your hands on a fan or throwing anything at a fan in retaliation to verbal abuse is still wrong, and I'm not 100% sure of this, may be considered assault by the police. Plenty of heels have gotten over because of their performance and mic skills. You're a paid performer and you have to learn to rise above verbal provocation. I mean, would you clothesline a customer for complaining that she only got 9 McNuggets in her value meal? In essence the fans are the customers and the wrestlers are the workers. If you have to resort to cheap heat by involving fans then perhaps you need to rethink your gimmick. Oh, and fans, read this very carefully. Do…not….touch…a….wrestler….ever….with anything. Cuz' this is a really borderline case and my thinking is that since it's pretty much a tie, the tie will go to the runner, in this case the guy going all "Butterbean" on the fan. The water was uncalled for, but once the guy threw his hat… well, everything kind of goes out the window. In the end, if this was an intentional confrontation and Ronin meant to goad the fan into a physical conflict so that he could get all kinds of heel heat for beating up a fan, then….brilliant. No seriously, cuz' nothing garners more heat and fear than wrestler who beats up the fans. Plus, who'd ever think that the Red Power Ranger would be such an AWESOME heel? Well… probably the Yellow ranger…I heard the original one was died right after the first season. Coincidence? Or a rogue Range gone wrong…you be the judge.
Coming Up Short
HBK… Wrestlemania was made for this kind of performer. He's a "Big Game Player" on par with Michael Jordan, Reggie Jackson, and Robert Horry. He always brings his A+ game for Wrestlemania and any match he's in is guaranteed to be a 4 star affair. It only seems natural that any wrestler who squares off against him is going to get a huge rub, so I'm glad they are saving that honor and boost for someone who really needs it. Wait… he's going to wrestle Vince or Shane McMahon?? Um… yeah, I think you know what this belongs in this section because you don't waste a talent and icon like HBK on a McMahon, period. I truly hope this isn't the last WM we'll see HBK because if so his amazing "Big Game" legacy will be coming up short.
B Marks the Spot
Who did TBT mark out for this week? Well Stacy Keibler's mouth watering keester on the pages of STUFF magazine, PWG in FHM this month, and of course… Chicken McNugget value meals. Oh, that's right, this is a wrestling column…ok, now about these guys:
1. Scorpio Sky - It's suprising how a heel turn can turn a face mid-carder into one of the most intriguing heels on the roster. Imagine Shelton Benjamin with charisma. Cemented himself as one of my favorite heels on the PWG roster after coming up with one of the oddest and yet strangely over catch phrases of this new year: "Look at my ABS". (Although this picture must have been taken before his "Sky's the Limit 6 min AB work out plan) I will admit though that I was firmly on the band wagon after he exclaimed that the management didn't want to give him a title shot because he would have a "Chocolate bunny….wrapped in GOLD". Well take that how you will, but Meehan ain't the only guy who can feature brutha's in his column. Although, he is the only one can do so while oiling himself up with baby oil.
2. Eric Young – Somehow Young has channeled the bumping prowess of Mr. Perfect and Shawn Michaels and the comedic timing of Norman Smiley and Colt Cabana. Just incredible, if this guy doesn't get his own action figure in the next round of TNA toys, then someone needs to get shot.
3. RVD – Let's just forget about last week's Snitsky match shall we? The match with Carlito was good, his next match up with Chris Masters is intriguing as it will pit him against an absolute Masterpiece of Shit. Well at least we know that he's going over because if HHH is getting his win over Big Show then he'll need a face to squash next.
4. Smackdown Juniors – Wow, last week they put on arguably the 2nd best match of the night and this week they get a tag team match up? Is it just me or does Tzuki now have more singles victories than Spanky?
5. Teddy Hart – Last but not least is the mad genius himself. A lot can be said of Teddy, he has been called a flake for no-showing various promotions, he's been called unstable and dangerous, he has been called arrogant and selfish. Well I can't refute any of those claims, however, after seeing him at the MTV Pilot tapings I can say that he definitely has an aura about him. My girl and I met him after the show and he was nothing but genuine and appreciative to have us show up to support the pilot. He seemed very optimistic and enthusiastic about the chances of its' success and was gracious in discussing his new move to the West Coast and possibilities for doing more SoCal shows. He thanked us several times for coming out and came off as a genuinely good guy who appreciated the fans and just wanted to give them something memorable to go home with. What can I say, one meeting and he made me a mark. Plus… little known fact: Teddy Hart smells like a stripper. A weird fruity blend of lilac and strawberry lotion, but not only is he an aerial wizard, he's also one damn sweet smelling man.
Whatchu talkin' bout readers?
Well we got a few more letters here at TBT. I don't want you thinking that here at 411 we compare to see who got the most reader mail and who didn't. then again if that was true and this was part of the "Gut Check" challenge like in TNA, then I'd be Shark Boy pretty easily… not quite David Young, but close damn it.
You're up first Matt Leach.
I read you column every week. And I like what I read, else I wouldn't bother. This would be the kind of truthfulness a litre of gin will bring you. Be happy my son, for you write a column I am happy to read. But would it kill you to remove the redeye from photos? Admittedly I'm a photographer and notice these things, but the PWG pic was pretty rough around the edges. Send the photos to me, I'll ditch the red-eye for you and you can make some joke about me jobbing to Viscera. It bugs me that much, I'm a sad loser.
But nice column.
Well this is a first here at TBT, I've never claimed to be a photographer, then again, I've never really claimed to be a columnist either. No, that's a lie… I have claimed to be a photographer… but just that one time, and I swear I was going to get that poor girl her "head shots" eventually, it wasn't my fault they always come out better when the subject is naked in an unmarked white van. Anyhow, I'll be sure to send the next sub-par photo to you for Doctoring…I mean spiffying up. Then again, have you ever considered the possibility that El Generico does in fact have red eyes and is possibly the spawn of Satan himself?? Wait, that doesn't make sense, Shano Mac never mentioned a step brother.
I can't help but print this guy's e-mail, on his name alone. Mr. Neil Prettyman ……………………………………………..Prettyman.
Okay, so this is something that I've had on my mind for a few weeks, and you're finally gonna be the one that gets to respond.
"I will admit that the WWE does tend to create more compelling angles and storylines than TNA, mostly to make up for some of the lackadaisical and mediocre wrestling we are subjected to each week."
I've been trying to wrap my head around this subject for quite a while, and I think I'm completely unconvinced that the statement above that you gave is the whole story. Granted, yes, over the past few months (at least, for those of us that were not able to see TNA prior to Spike) there has been a distinct line: TNA is wrestling driven, and WWE is story driven. It is no secret that Vince thinks that he needs to produce a giant soap opera, which is often very hit (Edge was, and maybe is, one of the biggest heels in a good long while) or very miss(See: Tim White).
But why are the storlines in TNA so uncompelling? You could pinpoint it on the lack of mic talent that the company has, which would be a valid argument. But I think it all comes down to the fact that the wrestling they produce has been FAR superior to their competition. And I watch Impact, and I think "Man can these guys work", and you find yourself cheering for both men. And then the line between heels and faces get so blurred. You want to see someone hit amazing spots, or work a great match, and not hate their guts every second of the way.
When faces and heels get blended together so that you love to see everyone work, is it possible to craft a completely compelling storyline?
Wow, sorry that went so long, being tired makes me ramble on a bit. Have a good evening.i>
Wow, good argument and something I've been saying for months now. I think Neil was really referring to the X-Division more than anything because the style of athletic and high flying matches they have lends itself to getting all of the participants a face pop. If it wasn't for the little bit of backstage segment time or the small mannerisms that guys like Petey Williams, Alex Shelley, or Prime Time does in the ring you may never know they were heels. I think TNA has done a good job of leaving the X-Division alone in terms of over the top theatrics and soap opera-ish storylines. The Joe/Daniels/AJ saga is one of the few storylines getting played out to full fruition and even then there are some very grey areas with the Fallen Angel's character. The Heavyweight division is much more storyline driven and that is due to the fact that a lot of ex-WWE reside there. So the current fan base who remembers who Team 3D, Jeff Jarrett, or Rhyno are already expect that kind of storylines. I think that when Impact finally gets that second hour, and I fully expect it to happen by this summer, that the audience will finally see more fully developed angles for both divisions. That, and I fully expect us to see the first ever TNA Fulfill your fantasy Knockout Ultimate X. Vote for the Japanese School Girl outfits!!
Damn, now people are asking me questions I have to think about instead of making a few crude jokes and throwing in a quick "Lita's a Ho" one liner.
While I agree continuity is very important and would totally make wrestling a zillion times cooler if adhered to, there is another problem I have with modern wrestling. You see, Vince McMahon and the WWE constantly refer to it not as wrestling, but as "sports entertaintment" - and believe it or not, I am fine with that. Like most ideas, it has some bad points, but also good points. The problem is, the good points are being ignored. If you want more realistic, character and story driven plots instead of wrestling, fine, but make the characters more believable. I'm tired of the same old ridiculous betrayels (how many people in real life befriend someone for months so they can swerve them later? Anyone?) and tricks, and worse yet, I'm tired of bad "wrestling talk." I know a lot of fans are going to think I'm insane for this, but I don't want to see evil managers like Sinister Minister (or whatever they call him now) cackling with evil glee over his devious plan. No more invisible cameras, no more of the same cut-and-paste promos (ie, one guy tries to convince another guy to help him out with the usual "I can see it now" spiel that ends with them both looking up at an imaginery marquee with their name in lights), and no more weird jumping up and down the contendership ladder (which is a point you just made that I fully agree with).
Basically, to me, the wrestling can be outrageous and adhere more to it's own rules than real life (ie, five punches in a row to the face does virtually nothing), but no more "wrestling talk". I really believe if they started talking like normal joes ready to kick some ass they'd draw more money. I mean, don't get me wrong, add character to it, but think about it... over the last five years, in terms of promos... the greatest heel has really been Tito Ortiz. He's mean, he's blunt, he's a little punk, but he can kick ass and a lot of people hate him for it. I'll take that over the conniving "evil genius" of Vince McMahon or the typical "arrogant young buck" stereotype (Randy Orton) of wrestling today.
- Chase
I remember the time I made friends with a guy at work so that I could snake him out of his promotion. But first I had to employ another coworker I was dating to flirt with him and then when the time came for performance reviews she burst in and accused him of sexual harassment. Oh man… what a day that was. But I digress. I see your point. Wrestling has fallen along way from its Heyday and there are definitely a lot of lines of Kayfabe that the WWE is jumping in and out of whenever they see fit. Either they go with "this is all a show" or "we are saying this is real, but you know it isn't", but this constant fence sitting is kinda wearing thin. I'm not sure about the "normal joes" thing though as this truly is a television show and a lot of people watch this to live out their own fantasies and to escape reality. But yeah, I would think if my boss's son hit me with a steal chair during a meeting with my boss that I would probably have more course of action than HBK did. Which was…uh…nothing apparently. Some guys can get over on their own character by just turning it up a notch, The Rock, Stone Cold, HBK, HHH, Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero were all great examples. Batista, Cena (although he is waaaaaay turned up), JBL, and Edge also succeeded. People like Marty Wright (aka The Boogeyman), Undertaker, and Kane just need that extra bit of the surreal to really get over. Then again…I TOTALLY buy 5 male cheerleaders.
Left Overs…
The Rated Yaaaarrrr Superstar Paul Birchall may be debuting a new gimmick, and apparently in this day and age pirates have blonde streaks….butt pirates that is. "Is that a peg leg in my poop deck or are you just happy to see me?"
PWG was good, bordering on great this weekend, the guys did an admirable job however of making up for as many cancellations as they did. Samoa Joe didn't make it and we didn't find out until right before bell time. Despite what controversy I write about in the main topic, PWG is still for my money, the 4th best promotion out there. Plus, I got to see a man have sexual relations with a burrito in the ring…what more can you say? A lot actually, but there's no time.
Enough with the Eddie angles. Too much is being put on Eddie right now. Guys dedicating matches to Eddie, guys dissing Eddie to get cheap heel heat. I'm sure an Eddie invitational will be in the works. What's next? Is some IWC wanna be gonna' name a column after him? Wait a sec…
Does anyone hate John Cena more at this moment than Csonka and the rest of the Maria lovin' nation out there? Wow, way to get Cena over as a true ladies man and simultaneously make every single male Maria fan hate him. It's like watching the guy you hate at work win the Lotto, then find out that not only is he not going to quit, he's also getting the promotion you've been waiting for. Then again, I'm a Stacy and Gail Kim mark so give her a Cleveland Steamer next week on RAW for all I care.
Chris Sabin's New Hair cut is part "Tweek" from South Park, Part Trunks from Dragonball Z, and part Ryan Seacrest. I'm hoping for a new change that goes: "Met-Ro Sabin….CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP".
God, when did Ric Flair start looking so old in the ring, credit to HHH for carrying that match. I love the Nature Boy as much as the next IWC member but maybe its truly time to give up his full-time role. I mean, 5 years ago it would have taken HHH at least a full TWO minutes to shake off that low blow and hit a Pedigree. Then again, I could see how he could no sell it, I mean, the only way to hit HHH in the balls now a day is to punch Stephanie McMahon in the left pocket.
Someone pass this note onto Trish Stratus for me. Best…referee gear…EVER. I'm tellin' ya, more hot female referees would be great. I mean, who says that you have to have a penis to be a referee? But enough about the Super Bowl.
HBK forced to retire?? No way, how will the WWE fans last without seeing HBK every week on RAW. Oh that's right…the bi-monthly PPV appearances that ever retired "legend" makes. Damn I guess this means he'll be an "unlockable" character in the video games now though.
Who Gayer than Kanyon?? Apparently this man:
Way to go Austin is seen here debuting his new ring attire on Impact and doing it the CONway. Which I believe involves him also getting a bikini wax and using Cucumber Melon scented baby oil before and AFTER each match.
Makes you wonder... is Austin now moonlighting as Eric, the "friend" in the proposed OJ angle... hmmm. From "My Personal Jesus" to, "My Personal JESUS CHRIST what are you wearing???"
James Storm is about to become the luckiest man in TNA in exactly
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Konnan and Homicide are pushing to get Low Ki back in TNA. Presumably he would become the newest member of LAX. They've already come up with the name for his finishing move, the LAXative, that's basically when he just kicks the SHIT out of you till you pass out.
Pimpin' In High Places
Some recommended reading by TBT this week:
No One Happier The Big Boss must be pitching a Big Ben sized woody over the Steeler's win.
Meehan has lost his mind. Fact or Fiction is insane this week as Meehan defends the "e" for screwing Rey Rey out of his Wrestlemania title spot. Hey, btw, I guess there is no reason to win the Rumble anymore since it doesn't guarantee you CRAP afterwards.
Where's the TNA love?? The Urine Awards...I mean Year End Awards took a piss all over TNA, but fear not for I will have my own awards next week...or not, I could get lazy, plus it's Valentine's Day so if there's a chance at some regular booty...well....you know.
TBT invades MTV to watch WSX...B.I. Itches
The MTV Pilot taping was interesting. The whole show took 3 and a half hours from the time we arrived at a parking lot and shuttled off to the location till the time the taping was over. The show is only 30 minutes, so you do he math. The opening bout saw Human Tornado (who was MEGA over with the SoCal crowd) pin Puma with a twisting senton splash in a 3-way that included Luke (Alter Boy). The match was decent, although it was apparent that they had to do a lot of calling of the spots during the match because there had been so many cancellations and changes in the line-up up to that day. After we were treated to a half hour performance by….ZACK WYLDE. Yeah, I had no idea who he was either till I realized it was the dude from Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Well, not bad actually, the band can really rock. Too bad the audience of around 150 weren't as into it as they might have been had they known who he was.
The crowd was about 110 wrestling fans and 40 people paid to go after answering an ad on craigslist.com. the second match featured Jack Evans beating Matt Sydal who was accompanied by Valentina with the 630 senton splash. This was a great match, too bad it only lasted about 5 minutes. Delirious didn't show up, however these two worked great together. The final match was a hardcore Royal Rumble featuring New Jack, Sean Waltman, Justin Credible (PJ Polaco), Vampiro, and Teddy Hart. There was also Puma, Al Katrazz, Lone Star, Chris Hammrick, and Kaos from XPW fame. This was incredibly too gimmicky as it had pyro, electric boxes, New Jack hitting an elbow drop through a table from a overhang, two ladders, a box of thumb tacks and an exploding chain link fence. Yep, I'm not even exaggerating. Still, I'm sure once it is edited on TV it will look ok. The wrestling was pretty crappy except for a few good Teddy Hart spots an it looks like either X-Pac or Vampiro will be the new Wrestling Society X champion on the next show as they both managed to grab a contract suspended 12 feet over the ring.
I think on TV this will come across as kinda edgy and if its on free TV then SOMEONE will watch it. Of note, Vampiro looked a bit pudgy (but motivated) and Waltman looked his age and then some, but Justin Cre…I mean PJ Polaco and New Jack both looked like they did when you last saw them on TV. Not sure what that means to you, but up close New Jack's forehead looks like a dirt bike course after the X-Games. But you don't come to see the man look pretty or wrestle technical matches, you come to see if he'll "shoot" on someone and maybe even stab a fool with a fork. Alas, neither happened, however he did have his own unscripted "New Jack" moment which basically amounted to a lot of swearing in front of the camera.
Vampiro cut a promo, off camera I believe, about how this was 22 years in the making. Making me think that they REALLY need to hurry up with the production set up, then I realized that he must have had a lot to do with setting this up because he talked about how he had a dream about mixing hardcore music and hardcore wrestling. The show had the feel of a lot of guys wanting to make a new promotion work and the wrestlers really did try their best, no doubt about that. You got the sense that this misfit, rag tag cast of has-beens and unknowns were just looking for a chance at the brass ring. I got to admit though, if this works out it will need a lot more young workers to make up for the decrease in quality you may get from some of these aging "Big Name" wrestlers. Man, I hope they end up doing a WSX "My sweet 16" soon.
Overall it was quite a spectacle and it was actually a lot of fun. I recognized a good dozen PWG regulars and had a good time seeing a lot of guys I would have never seen live if not for the power of MTV. The rumor that these guys all signed exclusive deals was debunked after Teddy Hart mentioned his contract allowed for him to appear in any SoCal promotion. Sad that hardly any PWG guys decided to show up because of the fear that those contracts would in fact be exclusive. I think perhaps those contracts prohibit any WWE or TNA contracts but for most of the guys working the show, that didn't seem like it would be a problem. Also the rumors that only "pretty people" would be allowed in was wrong. Also the rumor that the "pretty MTV" people would be paid $7 an hour was also wrong. There were quite a few ugly mugs who apparently got their $28 for showing up and calling ahead. Which made the beautifully people like myself a bit perplexed. Yeah, that's right, I got PAID to watch wrestling. Is there anything better than that? Oh there is, but unfortunately New Jack didn't ghetto fork anyone. Oh well maybe next time.