Ask 411 Wrestling 03.29.06: The Scoop on Macho, I Don't Like Hogan and Dream Cup Feedback!
Posted by Gavin Napier on 03.29.2006
The REAL reason Macho Man isn't in the HoF, why I don't care much for Hulk Hogan and neither does Jesse Ventura, plus Dream Cup feedback.
Ok. What was the CZW XPW Feud. All I know is that somewhere between XPW Damage Inc and CZW TOD 1, Messiah was fired for apparently screwing Lizzy Borden. Then he was somehow attacked in his apartment and became one thumb short. How did this come to be and what else happened between CZW and XPW?
Not many questions this week, but plenty of stuff to look at. But, I urge you...READ THE RULES. If you're sending questions and they're not getting answered, it's probably because things are going to the wrong e-mail address. Use Necrocide@gmail.com. I beg you. The other rules are kind of important, too. So in the immortal words of Leeroy Jenkins, let's do this.
I bet Andrew Lee is upset about the return of late fees at Blockbuster.
Hey, I have a couple of questions in regards to the WWE video library. First off how many tape libraries do they own? Also, does the WWE own the rights to the video libraries of their developmental territories like OVW and DSW, and if they do, does this mean that they also own the libraries of promotions like MCW and HWA, which were once a developmental territory for the WWE? Lastly, if the WWE owns the video library of a defected promotion, such as the NWA is it possible that they can actually put out a best of dvd for a wrestler who was never in the WWE but big somewhere else? I understand this is alot, but I would really appreciate your wisdom on this topic.
To the best of my knowledge, Vince owns the WWWF, WWF, WWE, WCW, NWA, AWA, ECW, and Georgia libraries. I think Wrestling Gold owns the Florida libraries as well as some other stuff from the regional days. I'd be almost positive that Vince owns his own developmental stuff, as well as the Tough Enough history, obviously. As for your final question, yes, they COULD in theory put out a "best of" DVD for someone that was never in WWE. The problem with that would be finding someone that was never actually IN WWE. Sting comes to mind, but other than that....who?
Jeannie Yen questions the changes from January's past.
When Benoit won the royal rumble he was a smackdown wrestler but he jumped ship to raw to face Triple H. I understand that logic to book the match, however, JR and the King kept saying "sure the winner of the rumble gets the title shot at wrestlemania, but nobody ever said which title", trying to make an excuse for the jump. But the previous year the first rumble when they had the brand extension they kept saying "the winner of the rumble will get a wrestlemania title shot for their respective show. So what gives?
You can look at this two ways. Either they decided to spice things up and leave the possibility of a jump open, OR they realized that they were booking themselves into a corner and wanted to free things up. At any rate, does an unexplained booking decision from WWE really surprise you THAT much?
I wonder if Geordie Angus feels guilty about eating steak.
Here's something that's been bothering me for a while. Understand this first, my feelings towards the Montreal Screwjob are completely neutral. I don't blame Bret or Shawn or Vince any more then the other. In my view, Vince did what he thought had to be done. Simple as that. Anyways, as you've probably seen, Vince has a tendancy to use the Montreal finish quite frequently (the most recent being SNME). I'm sure i'm not the only person who gets annoyed by this. Two questions stem from this:
Question # 1: Now, Vince wanted, and still wants i assume, Bret Hart to appear in some capacity during his match with Shawn at Wrestlemania. Does he not think that by constantly drudging up the past and constantly using the Montreal Finish that Bret gets pissed off more and more each time and that fuels his negative feelings for the WWE?
Question # 2: It's been nearly ten years; why does Vince keep using the finish?
For question number one, it's likely that Bret would get more and more pissed off if the situation is legitimate. I don't think Bret vs. Vince and Shawn is any more legitimate than Boogeyman vs. Booker T, but that's just my opinion on the whole thing. And why does Vince keep using the finish? To keep it fresh in people's minds. The one thing that Vince is guilty of when he finds a good/great angle is overkill. He pushes it and pushes it and pushes it until it saturates your brain. It's one of the reasons that WWE becomes so mind numbingly predictable.
Evan Nelson sent two questions, so I picked one. Look for the other next week, Evan.
When did Ricky Steamboat leave WCW/NWA in 1989 and why? It seemed that after the Great American Bash, he and Lex Luger were in line for a big blowoff match to end their fued.
Steamboat decided that he wanted to get back into semi-retirement and spend time with his family. It was the third time that Steamboat had "retired", and would stay that way for a little over a year before he resurfaced in the WWF as a fire breathing, costumed midcarder.
There was a question last week about JBL's poem/song to Triple H. Well, many thanks to Ooga Chucka, Jay, Jeremy Boutin, and especially Michael Joyeaux, who helped out by letting me know where the thing showed up. It was done by NoSoul (of ScoopThis and 411 fame), and it was basically a WWF/E mock-up page with a lovely song entitled "I Can Be Your Stephanie". Mr. Joyeaux provided me with a link that he hosts that has it. If he doesn't mind, I'll share it with you all next week.
John from Los Angeles takes the IWC to task.
so here's my question. this is what makes me upset abut wrestling fans. they hate hulk hogan and triple h for all the backstage power they throw around to keep themselves on top of the card and not putting the right people over. with that said, i dont disagree with them being upset with them but who do they always leave out? Shawn Micahels. He was the biggest jerk of them all. He told Bret Hart to his face he wouldn't put him over, he had his clique and they had almost as much power as him too. So why does the internet never talk about him? They act like he does no wrong. Personally I don't like HBK, I respect his ring work but don't put down Hogan or Trips unless your gonna put them all down. Also you had a bad run in with Hogan, when I saw him he was very nice and I asked for a picture and he had everyone around him telling him he needed to go but instead he ignored them and took a picture with me.
Why is HBK not villified as much? Nostalgia and workrate. Remember, HBK was gone for good. His career was over. Premature exits make up for a lot of stuff. Need proof? Look at Kurt Cobain. Nirvana sucked hard, but now they're legends because of a premature death. Talent makes up for even more. Look at Barry Sanders. One of the biggest jerks of the modern era in the NFL, he held up his team over a contract that he voluntarily signed. But because of his talent, he's simply regarded as one of the best ever and that's about as far as the discussion goes. With HBK's exit for a few years and extraordinary talent, he's much less likely to be attacked by anyone but Bret Hart fans. The Kliq has come under its share of fire, though. As for my run-in with Hogan, it was after Souled Out 1998 in Charleston, WV. We got the chance to meet a lot of the workers that night, including Scott Hall, Flair, Arn, Mongo, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Golberg. All of them were great. Goldberg sat outside in the middle of January at 1:30 in the morning taking pictures with kids and cops and fans and just talking to people in the parking garage of his hotel. It was about that time that Hogan's limo pulled up. He got out and stood there for a second, then got back in his limo. What I presume to be a security gaurd got out of the front of the limo and went into the hotel. A few minutes later, an announcement was made that "all non-paying persons on the premises need to exit the property as soon as possible." Goldberg told the group around him not to worry about it that he'd tell them that everyone was "with him" for a few more minutes. A couple of minutes later, the announcement was made again, and this time hotel security was enforcing it. True to his word, Goldberg did buy us a little more time to make sure everyone got their autographs and pictures. A few minutes later, a totally ridiculous announcement was made.."All paying customers in the restaurant at this time need to return to their rooms. The price of your meals will be refunded in full. All paying customers in the restaurant at this time need to return to their rooms." When somebody asked what was up, hotel security informed us that "Mr. Hogan" had asked for privacy and wanted everyone to return to their rooms so that he could eat dinner alone.
Now, I could almost buy into him running us out of the parking garage to keep character since Goldberg was there. But why would you run people out of the restaurant that had paid for meals and drinks? If you want to eat alone, go to your suite and have dinner. It was just an incredible display of arrogance and ego that made someone that I didn't care much for in te first place that much worse. For those of you that have had GOOD experiences with him, congratulations. I won't tell you to like him or dislike him, just giving you one of the biggest reasons that he's not popular with me....like he cares.
Virgil Wade asks an easy one.
What cartoon did Samoa Joe get the Muscle Buster from?
Why, MUSCLE, of course! The Japanese wrestling cartoon could inspire lots of fun (and potentially fatal) moves before all is said and done.
Martin Foster keeps the Hogan ball rolling this week.
How did the infamous Jeff Jarrett/Hogan guitar incident come about overseas? Yes I'm talking about the one that TNA gets a hard on for and shows whenever possible. Not sure but I would think there was some bad blood between hogan and jarrett after the "laydown" back during the dying days of WCW. Was this simply to add fuel to an upcoming match that took place between the two or was there some other back story?
Hogan had verbally agreed to do a run with TNA, which is what led to the angle. Then Hogan decided not to do the stuff. The bad blood is actually between Hogan and Russo, not Jarrett. At least it's MORE with Russo, as Jarrett and Hogan seemed to have worked things out. The idea was to set up a Hogan vs. Jarrett NWA World Title program, but ended up being Jarrett running Hogan off of TNA's turf. Either way, it was good exposure for them.
Jay asks the same question I have.
Matt Hardy was getting really over when he had the Version One gimmick on Smackdown, when he won the cruiserweight title. But then it seemed like he got his legs cut off out of nowhere. He lost to Zach Gowan and got shipped off to Raw. Was there a reason he got this treatment? Did he do something to get punished for? I've always wondered why they destroyed one of the better characters they had at the present time.
I always undertood the situation to be that Matt wanted to be moved to RAW, ironically, for the sake of being with Lita. I could be wrong about that, but it's always been my understanding. The problems began with Kane. Basically Kane kidnapped Matt's girl, had quasi-consentual sex with her, and then somehow got booked as the face. So Matt lost his girl and was made to look like a punk, as well as a jerk. Then came the whole thing with Edge, which was horribly mishandled. Now he's back on Smackdown, and just kind of floating around. I think he can be salvaged, but it's going to take time and effort. I hope they're willing to do it, because Hardy's a fun guy to watch and fans can get behind him.
neil2lane misses his royalty.
Why was the king of the ring discontinued? Was it because of the roster split? They still could have done a king of the ring with mixed rosters. Also what is your opinion on the great Hayabusa?
KotR had been dwindling since it's inception. From a larger one-night tournament, it was pared down to just the semifinals and finals, and basically turned into a way to try to elevate midcarders a little more...and it didn't work that well. Brock capped things off in 2002, and it seemed like a good way to end things. I would like to see the event make a comeback, but under a somewhat different format. I'd like to see RAW and Smackdown each devote an entire show to an 8-man tournament, with the winner of each facing off for "King of the Ring" bragging rights at a ppv in the future. Hayabusa? Entertaining spot machine and fun to watch.
Paul Stevenson is learning.
I remember on the few occasions that they appeared on television following the 1992 Royal Rumble that both Barabarian and Warlord despite being singles competitors at the time had started wearing their old Power Of Pain get up again.My question is this...Did Warlord and Barbarian know they were about to be sent packing from the WWF and plan to resume the old P.O.P tag-team elsewhere or were the WWF in the early stages of putting the two back together?. Or was there absolutely no point to their decision to go retro whatsoever?.
My guess would be no point. If anything, WWF was probably playing with the idea of putting them back together, but both men would leave the federation shortly thereafter. Outside of possible indy shots, there was no reunion soon after exiting the WWF. The Barbarian went to Japan for a while, while The Warlord competed in WWC's 1993 Universal Title Tournament in Puerto Rico.
On the subject of heat between Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan Michael Goldberg and Jason Oremland gave me a heads up from Jesse's book. Jesse wanted to start a union of sorts for wrestlers, and Hulk ratted him out to Vince McMahon. Seems logical enough for me, since nobody likes a NARC.
Quint Lange chips in with feedback on the Dream Cup.
I normally hate fantasy dream cards, but I really liked your recent one. It reminds me of something I would have done with my Hasbro figures when I was 12 (maybe I should dust those off...).I thought your teams were great, except I would have loved to have seen a Canadian team (me being Canadian and all). Sub Mankind into the WWF 90s team, and go with Bret and Owen Hart, Benoit, Jeircho, and, I don't know, Gene Kiniski. Now I realise this would mean one of the original 16 would have to go, but I can't think of any that don't deserve to be there. There could be an additional 18th team, but that would screw up the brackets and lead to byes or something, so that wouldn't work either. Not that I'm asking you to re-do the whole thing with a Canadian team or anything, it's just kind of fun to think up what other teams you could include. (Team Smokey Mountain? Team Puerto Rico?)
There were plenty of other teams that could have been done, but keeping things a nice even 16 just made things easier. I could have split WCW into pre-nWo and post-nWo rosters, meaning a pre-nWo roster of Sting, Rude, Vader, and the Steiners, and a post-nWo roster of Goldberg, DDP, Booker T, Buff, and Kidman. Team Smokey Mountain would have to be Tracy Smothers, Tony Anthony, Tom Pritchard, Jimmy Del Ray, and Chris Candido. Puerto Rico? Carlos Colon, Abdullah the Butcher, TNT, Bruiser Brody, and Carlito. Even without Bret, Team Canada is do-able. Benoit, Jericho, Lance Storm, Owen Hart, and Gene Kiniski would work well. We're just one guy short of an all magic team! Papa Shango, Boogeyman, Spellbinder, and Rasta the Voodoo Mon need a fifth! At any rate, I'm glad you enjoyed the thing, and if it ever happens again, maybe I can field suggestions for teams.
Connor O'Boyle has yet ANOTHER Hogan question.
I read somewhere(I think I read it from Larry Csonka)that the Mountie is one of the few people to get a clean win over hogan.If this is true do you have details on when this happen.
In 1997 in Montreal, Jacque "The Mountie" Rougeau pinned Hulk Hogan at what I think was a retirement card for him. I've never heard anything about this being on tape, so good luck tracking it down.
Alex Van Dyck wants to go sightseeing.
I was wondering if you could give me some insight as to where the old NWA/Georgia Championship Wrestling tv shows were filmed. On the Ric Flair dvd there are several segments where Tony Schivone has the interview area, with the ring next to it, and the crowd in the background. I assume this was all done at WTBS buildings but I'm not sure. I live about a mile from there and drive by every day so I was curious if that's where the action took place all those years.
The TBS Studios were home to Georgia Championship Wrestling. I can't give you a specific sound stage or anything like that, but I'm sure someone in the building could help you out with the particulars.
Warren Lisak brings up some good points.
This is more an observation of the Montreal Screw job and keeping things in character as well as the conspiracy theories. In the documentary following Bret Hart through the events leading to and shortly after Montreal we can see Bret's wife, after the mtch, chastising several wrestlers including Triple H. At one point she refers to him as Hunter. Not Paul, as his real name is. I'm wondering why this is? If she is in fact so mad at them, would she not be calling them by their real names? Bret's out anyway, why stay in character? The documentary was not a WWF thing, it was independent (as I understand it). This can be explained by suggesting that she only knew their ring names or was habituated to them; or that she knew she was on camera and had to keep things 'in character.' Earlier in the film, while in Montreal, Bret tells his son to play with the Headbangers; that I can understand. He's on film, he hasn't been screwed yet, and he is supposed to keep character all the time. I just thought it was an interesting note, considering the conspiracy theories surrounding the Montreal incident. If it's real, why use character names. If it's fake then character must be kept.
You make interesting points, sir. I'm going to refrain from further commentary on the whole situation until post-Wrestlemania 22 to see if I'm proven right or not.
I agree with JS Bragg in theory.
I think the biggest screw up for WWE was not keeping O'Haire's gimmick going, teaming him with Piper, and releasing him. I think
the "I'm not telling you anything you don't already know" Gimmick would have given us a top caliber guy. Everyone I knew got excited when one of these promos came on TV. Sean was talented, big, and this was GOLD when he told us to cheat on our wives, etc. It was just TERRIFIC. So...my question: do you know of anywhere I can download the vignettes that they had of Sean O'Haire? Thanks!
The problem with O'Haire was that he started cracking up when he did the promos live at house shows. Oops. Then when Piper got released, O'Haire got punished for it as well. I love O'Haire in the ring, but it just didn't work out. Turns out he's getting another look, as he had a dark match at RAW Monday, I hear. As for downloads...check the usual spots like YouTube and p2p applications.
Glen Benbow is BACK with a question about the greatest Slim Jim pitchman ever.
I pondered over the question about Hulk Hogan and remembered the first time I actually started watching wrestling. It was 1996, and I was about 13 or 14 and the first match I saw was on WCW Monday Nitro, "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair for the WCW Title. I remember watching Hogan coming out during Savage's entrance and encouraging his partner before getting in the match. For me, I knew the majority of wrestling fans liked Hulk Hogan, but Randy Savage was the man for me. From his theme music, to his relationship with Liz, to his hatred with Ric Flair and his awesome Elbow-drop from the top rope (remember this was my first match), I loved everything about the Macho Man. He wasn't Hulk Hogan, he was "OOOOHHHH YEAAAHHHHH!!!! Macho was my favorite all up till he turned bad and aligned with the NWO. I couldn't understand why WCW would change directions with him and change his gimmick because I loved "The Macho Man" yet I hated "The MADNESS" and from then on my love for him ended and I became a fan of William Regal's. I guess my question is Why? And What Happened to Randy. He was something special and I loved him because 1) he was mortal enemies with Flair 2) he wasn't a Hulk Hogan 3) he was a World Champion 4) he fought the NWO and was the top face and had I'd been older I would of watched Halloween Havoc when he and Hogan fought in 96. Side question whatever happened after that because that was when everything really changed for him and Piper basically took over as top face. After Halloween Havoc he came back a few months later and changed his whole persona and that was when I stopped being a fan of his. He wasn't the Macho Man anymore and he wasn't special anymore. Now look at him today. It's really sad seeing him today and thinking about what he could of been. I don't even think he'll be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
I know this is long, but Savage did so much for me when I was a kid. From attacking Flair from behind and going nuts, to taking countless beatings from the NWO ( I marked out when he and Flair actually worked together) man it was gold. He could of been one of the main reasons WCW did better in the ratings than WWE, because he was the hero who got countless beatings by the NWO and we wanted to see him get his hands on Hogan and win for all of us WCW fans. What are your opinions on this and do you think that Savage was a big part of the NWO's success? I really miss him.
My first instinct is to say not to be too sad for Macho Man. He had a fantastic run of 15 years or so and will be remembered as one of the all time greats. Unfortunately, Randy Poffo appears to have as many psychological problems as Randy Savage was portrayed as having. It's never a pleasant thing to see someone come apart at the seams like Macho has, but it happens. I think Savage was a huge part of the nWo's success. He was also a part of WWF and WCW's success in general when he was there. Don't get too discouraged about the Hall of Fame thing, either. It's apparently Randy's own doing. From what I've learned over the last few days, it's got nothing to do with a grudge between he and McMahon, and he's not being kept off of DVD's because of any type of heat. It turns out that Macho owns his own likeness and wants a freakin' dump truck full of money to use it for any reason. He's pricing himself out of everything. I hope he pulls it together long enough to let people give him the credit he deserves.
Steve asked a pair of questions, and I'm taking the first one this week, second next week.
In the infamous War Games battles of the Great American Bash of 1987, J.J. Dillon is "injured" in the first match (Four Horsemen & JJ versus Dusty, Nikita, Road Warriors & Ellering), and replaced in the second War Games match by the "War Machine". Do you have any idea who played this masked man? I have watched the match a few times, but I can't recognize his movements as anyone I know.
That was none other than Big Bubba Rogers aka The Big Boss Man aka The Boss aka The Man aka The Angel aka Ray Traylor. Bubba Rogers > Paul Ellering, I think. Seems like that would have shifted the balance of things.
Justin Sholes wants to know about a shooter.
I saw this on the news wire: "In the latest Alex Marvez column, Daniel Puder says that he should have injured Kurt Angle during their
famous shoot on Smackdown because it would have forced WWE to push him." I don't know the story behind this, and was wondering if you could please fill in the blanks...
Puder was in the Tough Enough that took up time on regular television instead of having it's own show. There was an exhibition with Kurt Angle "shooting" with the guys to find out what they had, and Puder, being a legit MMA competitor, slapped an arm submission legit on Kurt Angle and was in a position to break his arm pretty easily before the ref stepped in and ended it. Angle got a little embarassed and pissed off, and Puder took some heat for getting a little too real with one of the golden geese of the promotion.
Jza asks a question and for some help.
Just a quick thought, I remember reading not so long ago on a 411 news post that the Undertaker recently "held court" with the smackdown lockerroom in regards to Melina acting snobby to the other girls or something. What exactly is holding court, and what does it entail? Have you ever witnessed this happening or heard of anyone who has? Do you know of any famous "verdicts" or anything else related to the issue?
Without trying to sound pushy, my friend is running the London marathon for a charity that works with families where the kids have disabilities. If you're able, please spare him a thought, he's a good guy, it's a good cause and they could use all the support they can get www.justgiving.com/darrrencampbell
Everybody go check out the website, donate if you can. Glad to get some advertising out there for you. Now, the question.
"Holding Court" is pretty common in professional sports. Basically, the recognized leader of a group will get everyone together and take care of some situations that need to be taken care of. Whether it's infighting, petty squabbles, or more serious stuff, it's pretty routine and a way to police yourselves in a group setting. Some groups set it up as an actual court, with testimony and "lawyers" and have fun with it. Some groups just take care of business. I'm sure that 'Taker does a little of both when necessary. Any verdicts? Can't say I'm aware of it, other than Undertaker telling everyone to back off of Jake on a European tour when Jake was in recovery for his alcoholism. It's a nice little story that Jake relates on his Pick Your Poison DVD.
Brad King asks a sensible question. Too sensible.
Something has always bothered me about the Andy Kaufman—Jerry Lawler feud. Between Kaufman cutting promos on Saturday Night Live on Lawler, and their infamous confrontation on the Letterman show, Jerry Lawler was turned into a pop culture phenomenon overnight…yet he stayed in Memphis. One would think the McMahons, Crocketts, and Gagnes of the wrestling world were throwing money at Lawler hoping to cash in on the publicity…yet Lawler stayed in Memphis. One would believe The King could have parlayed his 15 minutes into a lucrative World Title run…yet Lawler stayed in Memphis. So what happened? Did The King blow arguably the hottest angle of the 80s, or were promoters too stupid to capitalize on it?
I don't have an answer for you, mainly because I've wondered the same thing often. The only thing I can think of is that Jerry was hoping to vault Memphis into the stratosphere with, or ahead of, the NWA and WWF. Nothing else makes sense.
Thanks for the questions this week. The Dream Cup finals took MUCH longer to work out than I thought it would, so it's on hiatus for seven days, but it'll lead off the column next week. Read the rules and get in touch.
1. If you ask a question that's already been asked, I will refer you to that column instead of answering again. Why? That's what column archives are for. Now, I don't know what's been asked in older columns, so this rule applies only for MY Ask 411 columns.
2. Wrestling questions only, please. I'll allow the occasional exception for a well-written porn or sports question. Anything else may very well be answered by C-list celebrities, or impersonations thereof.
3. 11:59 PM Sunday night through 11:59 PM Tuesday night is a "dead time" on questions. If you send me a question between those times, I will NOT answer it. Not in this week's column, not in next week's column. I may give you a personal, non-column response, but that's no gaurantee. Often, it will be deleted with no response whatsoever. You've been warned. My therapist says I deserve some "me" time, and I'm taking it on those days.
4. If you send me a novel, I'm going to edit it. Don't cry to me if I cut out half of your e-mail that has nothing to do with the question. I love your praise, I love your bashing, I love all feedback. But the volume of e-mail I've gotten has quite literally quadrupled since starting this. I can't feasibly reply to everyone, and I'm sorry. But I do love you all. No, really.
5. I will work my butt off to find the answers for you. But if I honestly can't find the information anywhere, I'll be straight up with you. I'll keep looking and answer you personally and through the column as soon as I DO find the answer. But if you flame me, you get nothing and you'll like it. And hey, if you know something I don't, send it in. I'll give you full credit.
6. I'm going to have to limit you to one question, or at least one topic. Save those other questions for next week. Why am I doing this? Because I got over 70 e-mails this week. There's no way I can answer 100 + questions every single week or I'll be burnt out before this ball even gets rolling. I don't want to do that, so help me help you. One question, or at the very least one topic. Much appreciated.
7. Questions for Ask 411 v3.0 MUST be sent to Necrocide@gmail.com . PLEASE adhere to this. I don't check the hotmail address that this column is linked to. We're having a hard time getting this address set up on the profile, so don't get disgruntled at me if your question goes to the wrong place and you don't get answered. You've been warned.
