411 Fact or Fiction 06.29.06: Trish/Carlito, ECW, Angle, More

Posted by Ashish on 06.29.2006

It's week EIGHTY SEVEN of Fact or Fiction with Hidden Highlight writers JP Prag and James Thomlison and whether DX should stay together...

Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction! This week, Hidden Highlight writers JP Prag and James Thomlison battle it out! Let's get to it!


1. Pairing Trish Stratus with Carlito would be an interesting and entertaining combination.

James Thomlison: FACT. Are you kidding me? I marked for the 17 seconds they were around each other. Trish has hit – for lack of a better word - iconic levels for a female wrestler, and she is ALWAYS interesting and entertaining, no matter what she's doing. She has also been great when paired with someone. Was the Jericho/Christian/Trish thing a little cheesy, and at times, ridiculous and unbelievable? Yes, but you know what, it was still "interesting and entertaining". Carlito is getting more and more over by the minute; they finally letting him show some more of his move set, and he is GOLD on the mic. Throwing these two together would be one of the best storyline ideas they've had in a while. I mean… they've spent all of one backstage segment together and she told him that SHE SWALLOWS. Can you imagine cool shit like that every week? I'm glad you asked this question, because it makes me realize I want these two together STAT!

JP Prag: FACT. Who do you think you are talking to here? I'm the biggest Carlito mark going and am all for anything that gets him more TV and mic time. Although I don't think he particularly needs Stratus (he can get over quite fine on his own, thank you), I have no doubt that the two could have some great chemistry that would lead to just a million funny one-liners and back stage segments. I mean, like JT said, look how well Trish meshed with Jericho and (especially) Christian. Neither of those two needed Trish either for their careers, but it certainly didn't hurt. The only one I feel bad for in all of this is Maria. First John Cena, now Carlito. Everyone just loves her and leaves her...

Score: 1 for 1


2. WWE should keep DX together for the long term, including after Shawn Michaels returns from knee surgery that he will likely have in August or September.

James Thomlison: FICTION. As much as I hate to say it, Fiction. We don't need this to turn into another L.O.D. situation. They're UBER over at the moment, but the fact is DX is no more (you know what I mean). It can be fun for a while since neither men have or need anything else to do, but this was brought back for one reason: Nostalgia… okay, two reasons: Nostalgia and money. Milk both for what they're worth in a brief time before people tire, and move on. Neither men over the long term are believable as the young, arrogant, rebellious assholes that they were years ago. I can't see ‘long term' working even if they added a youngin' or two. Not only that, *I* can't think of very many storylines for them to get involved in; and remember, this is WWE Creative that we would be relying on to do so. Give the people what they want, and cut then off before it gets out of hand.

JP Prag: FICTION. If Shawn Michaels wasn't going in for knee surgery, then I would let them stay together for six months. Except have them officially win the tag titles and defend them against other super teams. This keeps Triple H out of the title hunt, but gives the two something to do and to mix it up with other huge wrestlers. But since Michaels will seemingly be gone, than there is no point. This isn't 1998, and Triple H does not need DX to stay over. Nor is DX filled with a crop of up-and-coming wrestlers. Nor would I want that. After the death of Evolution, I can no longer believe Triple H as a leader of a stable, as he stated many times he was through with groups and was only in it for himself (kayfabe). Get the pop, sell the DVD and t-shirts, and have the two shake hands and part ways. Let DX end with dignity and not any ridiculous swerve or anyone turning against each other. Although it might be funny if say, Nicky, started following Triple H around begging him to teach him to be more DX-like. That might be a good follow-up to the end of all this.

Score: 2 for 2


3. Goldberg would be worth a Sting-like salary for TNA.

James Thomlison: FICTION. Good GOD F-I-C-T-I-O-N! Look, nobody was a bigger Goldberg fan than me, and I even marked like a schoolgirl when he came to WWE, but the fact is this guy is like a fucking plague. He demands such money and such dominant booking in his favor that it's a joke. Like someone said (I believe Larry), he was in the right place at the right time, caught on with the fans, and got booked like a wrestling gawd. People like Sting and Steiner are good for one thing (despite the fact Sting hasn't done it yet because of a six month feud with Jarrett who needs to putting over so I don't understand it but): Putting the younger talent over. Show of hands; how many people honestly think Goldberg is going to come in and put over AJ Styles? Ron Killings? Monty Brown? No. Not going to happen, and him coming in (being former WCW/WWE) and killing the roster does nothing for TNA. Let him have his show and his MMA announcing. When Chris Jericho – one of the nicest and most personable guys on the planet – feels the need to punk you out, you are a douche.

JP Prag: FACT. Ummm... thanks for reading In Defense Of... Goldberg where I have quote from Jericho talking about how much he likes and respects Goldberg and that the story about what happened backstage is completely blown out of proportion and stemmed from something else entirely. And to answer your question of will Goldberg put over AJ Styles, Ron Killings, and Monty Brown, the answer is YES! Goldberg is willing to put over anyone so long as it makes sense and you don't try to make him look like an idiot. His problem with the WWE was about how they were treating the character (being put in wigs, running around like a maniac, messing with the music to stop the chanting), not the wrestlers and who he won/lost to. By the end, he was so fed up with the WWE that he just enforced his contract. The WWE were the ones that went beyond the number of dates clause and then refused to pay him the bonus for more. Now, that would not really be a problem with TNA. A year-long contract for about 36 dates, maybe a few more, not a big deal. The real money is in Goldberg putting over Samoa Joe. Goldberg does not need to be in the title hunt, nor does he want to. But just putting him in a stiff feud with Samoa Joe will put Joe over huge, and from there Joe can move on to the NWA championship. The mistake would be in TNA management if they plugged Goldberg into feuds with Steiner, Sting, and Jarrett. Sting faces this problem. He feels like a waste of $500,000 because he spent the first six weeks gone, and then after that has been in the same feuds he was in in WCW. If TNA did that to Goldberg, than sure he would not be worth it. But if they use him for feuds that end up putting over Samoa Joe and, oh, let's say Christian, then it would be all good. And again, we are talking a YEAR long contract. He does not have to put over everyone on the roster, nor is there time. Narrow your focus. What are two, maybe three tops, big feuds he can have where the winner will be put over in the end (IE, Goldberg wins a match or two, but this person just wins). I'd stick to the two I mentioned, and have Goldberg beat some locals, some X guys, and maybe a couple of semi-main eventers like Ron Killings and Christopher Daniels (and maybe Kevin Nash for old times sake) to give him something to do on weekly TV. Goldberg can very much be worth it, if used correctly.

Score: 2 for 3


---SWITCHAROO!!!---


4. WWE has already hurt Kurt Angle's star power by having him lose key matches since jumping to ECW.

JP Prag: FICTION. Kurt Angle's star power can hardly be hurt by having him lose a couple of matches. We are talking about a multi-time World/WWE champion who has beat everyone from Booker T to Hulk Hogan. Whenever they decide he's ready to be a champion, he'll be a champion. But he's one of those guys who will never need a title again to prove how good he is. Besides, it was just pointed out that he lost these matches because he is going to take some time off to recuperate from nagging injuries (caused by him coming back too quickly from other injuries). By the time he comes back, everyone will have forgotten about all his losses and just remember one thing: he is Kurt f'n Angle, the wrestling machine.

JT: Oh, that sneaky Ashish. Imagine my surprise when I saw it was you.

JP: You're telling me. I-

JT: Hey! This is Fact or Fiction, not Hidden Highlights. No witty banter here; no cutting in. We have a job to do.

JP: …I just thought I'd agree wi-

JT: No! None of that! I am not constricted by the laws of positivity here (not that it's a bad thing).

JP: …man… maybe he should have got Larry for this.

Larry: I'm golfing, ladies. No time for your bickering.

Ashish: Come on, it's getting late guys.

James Thomlison: FICTION. Okay, okay. The answer is FICTION. As JP so appropriate stole my line, it's Kurt F'N Angle. The guy could lose thirty two straight matches and we'd still say "you know what, Angle is going to own that guy". He could get on the mic for the next six months and talk shit, not wrestle a single match, and we'd still pick him to win against any other person on the roster. I too am glad he is taking some time off to get healthy (hence the losing), and I cannot wait to see him back… where I will still be telling people that "Angle is going to own that guy". Even in his losses, Kurt Angle dominates matches. His status is going nowhere, and if it does, it will only be up.

Score: 3 for 4


5. Taking Edge off of RAW was a bad move by WWE.

JP Prag: FACT. I'm never quite sure what the deal is with Edge. The guy is constantly hanging out at the main event level, yet the trigger just can't be pushed. Is there guilt over the Matt Hardy thing? If there was, you would think Matt Hardy would get a push. Edge was a star bred in the WWE and seemingly was being set up to be a top RAW star. When he was champ for a few weeks, it did change the product significantly. With him gone from RAW, it does not seem like the right message. He was unable to get that last jump to be a true superstar on RAW and he had to leave? The only thing that leaves is a bad taste in my mouth.

James Thomlison: FACT. My cohort in crime said it for me. Just scroll up and read what JP said and you have my answer. The guy is the second best heel in the company right now (the FIRST best wrestling heel in the company), gets AMAZING crowd reactions (I've been there live), and gets nothing but praise for his work. Yet, someone in the back is apparently sitting around like "you know, I'm just not feeling Edge". They have a SUPERSTAR on their hands, and they continue to just… blow it. He loses important matches (see: Vengeance), and anytime he shows up to cut a great promo, he gets his ass kicked. He's starting (I know, it's early) to slowly creep towards that Booker T/RVD (before the title win) level of "What the fuck are they doing with him???" With Triple H having some fun with this DX thing, Edge could be the man everyone loves to hate on RAW.

Score: 4 for 5


6. ECW is wasting too much of their hour of TV on segments that don't really build to anything like Kelly stripping and Sandman beating up a non-regular character.

JP Prag: FACT. I am a firm believer that storylines in wrestling should lead to wrestling, not to other storylines. What is the payoff of all of this? Sandman beating non-regular characters is fun, but is some non-regular going to beat him in a huge upset. Most of the new ECW audience doesn't even know why they are supposed to cheer the Sandman, nonetheless why beating him would be a big deal. The time with the Sandman could be better spent explaining his character and history. And random vixxxens (there's what you should trademark, Vince), as fun as they are to look at, really are doing nothing to make ECW more interesting. Then again, Kelly was the highest rated segment of the week a few weeks back. But that is just a short term gain. How many of those people converted into regular ECW watchers? Not many, I would say. ECW has so many talented wrestlers and brawlers sitting around, and OVW is waiting to be picked. But with only an hour a week, how will these people get any time except to job to the former RAW/SmackDown! stars? How are we supposed to care about anyone when pointlessness is going on.

Not to say Vince is solely responsible for this. Paul Heyman was never one for subtlety when it came to women. The time Elektra took off her top for the Sinister Minister for no apparent reason comes to mind. But that is a story for another day. The bottom line is, the problem with ECW is it is called ECW. If it were called something else, out expectations would be totally different. The shows have been pretty good. If this were WXYZ Wrestling, we would think this would be fine. But because it is called ECW we have a very different expectation for the product and what should be on TV every week. And I am not going to subside that bias. Vince wanted to call it ECW, so if it is ECW it could be a show that better serves its true roster of wrestlers.

James Thomlison: FACT. How do I even get a word in edgewise there? I can't believe I'm agreeing yet again, but what "ECW" seems to forget is that they have one hour. That's all. ONE HOUR. Now, aside from all of this stripper / random ass kicking / RAW storyline, is there ANY strictly ECW feuds other than Tommy Dreamer vs. Big Show? I've seen the FBI once. I've seen Kurt Angle a ton… who may be ECW but still. The stripping was cute the first week (because certainly nothing else was going right), but do we need to be wasting six out of forty-six minutes a week on this? To take it even further, aside from the RAW vs. ECW and Angle vs. RVD, has this show had a meaningful match in its first three weeks (sans Show/Dreamer)? Nothing that ECW has done has made me so "oh, I need to watch next week to see what happens", and you NEED that to keep a steady audience. Right now, it's "hey, if I feel like it, ECW is on and will have a match or two", and nothing else. Storylines / Feuds need to start happening quickly, or everyone will start feeling that it's okay to miss Tuesday nights.

Score: 5 for 6


No wonder these two write columns together, they are on the same page! They finish 5 for 6! Join us next week for more Fact or Fiction!