411 Fact or Fiction 07.13.06: Extreme Rules, ECW Identity, Hogan/Orton, More

Posted by Ashish on 07.13.2006

It's week EIGHTY NINE of Fact or Fiction with John Meehan, Steve Sullivan, and whether Wrestling Society X will be a success....

Welcome back to the little game we call 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week, 411's John Meehan debates with 411's Steve Sullivan! Let's get to it!


1. Not having Extreme Rules be the default rules for ECW matches is a good move in the long run and will give more importance to extreme spots.

John Meehan: FACT. Though I know plenty of the ECW purists might disagree, the bottom line is that *if* the ECW product really was about so much more than garbage wrestling, flaming tables and gratuitous chairshots, then the company should have absolutely nothing to fear by shirking the use of these objects in a healthy chunk of their matches. ECW used to bring the house not only with the plunder, but also with the technical wrestling and the lucha libre prowess of its competitors. If they're banking on making a new run out of pure "garbage" wrestling... they're simply about 10 years too late. Besides, over saturating your audience with an "every match has a chair" mentality waters down the effectiveness of these weapons in other non-ECW matches, and WWE simply can't afford to have even the most jobber-ly of ECW "extremists" (see: Balls, Dreamer, etc.) withstanding chairshot after chairshot in a throwaway opening contest while their "Big Brother" counterparts on WWE's RAW and Smackdown! continue to lose even main-event-level PPV matches as a result of foreign objects. In other words, if Tommy Dreamer can take 40 chairshots and STILL come out on top... Batista looks like a total wuss for losing to Mark Henry thanks to just ONE, ya' know?

Steve Sullivan: FACT. When I first heard they were getting rid of the Extreme Rules for every match I thought this was pretty much the end of ECW. By getting rid of the extreme rules, you pretty much toss away the core audience ECW was reaching for after One Night Stand. However, there are only so many extreme and insane stunts that ECW can pull off without killing off its talent. And Meehan is right, by taking chair shot after chair shot every match of every show, the chair shot becomes less valuable. And I know ECW is more than just chair shots. Hell the tacks on Flair and Show Tuesday night were awesome and it actually made me mark out a bit! But that's just the thing, we got tacks. Not chairs or kendo sticks or tables that we see every single ECW show. It's different and owns more shock value. With that, there's more reason to buy the pay-per-views for all the extreme stunts and actually get your moneys worth out of a WWE Pay-Per-View....for once.

Score: 1 for 1


2. The new ECW will find itself and develop an identity sooner than later.

John Meehan: FACT. Perhaps it's the optimist in Mee here, but I definitely think that ECW is on the fast track to "third brand identity." Now, of course, *what* that identity is, exactly, is anybody's guess (maybe "1998 RAW-lite?")... but the simple matter of fact is that -- and perhaps thanks to the limited nature of the Sci-Fi television deal -- ECW television will simply HAVE to find its place sooner than later if it is to continue to exist. Now I'll grant you, RVD and Angle's suspensions (as well as Sabu's recent behaviors) most certainly haven't *helped* matters... but you've got to break a few ECW eggs before you'll be able to resurrect a "dead" company into a viable third-brand omelet. With the Sci-Fi network elated with the numbers for the ECW show thus far, and with some of the toughest "growing pains" now behind them, I see no reason why the 'E won't continue to put some serious effort into the brand in the weeks to come to ensure that it gets renewed for a full 52-week deal.

Steve Sullivan: FACT. I'm like you here being optimistic because I love having wrestling on Tuesday night but I will admit that ECW has some rough bumps ahead. The next 30 days are critical for ECW for two reasons that Meehan already stated. Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam. If ECW can keep up its rather surprising rating over the next month, then ECW will have officially made its name in the business. Reason being, I truly feel that Vince and Paul each had their eyes set on putting the foundation down on ECW with these two guys. Now they can't do that because they both messed up. So if ECW can still set its foundation without its corner pieces, then that says a lot. ECW is also showcasing a lot of new talent with its vignettes. Guys like Test (who I know isn't really knew) , C.M. Punk, Shannon Moore, and Mike Knox are all relatively new talent to wrestling fans. Given guys like Test and Moore have already had runs on WWE TV, their success was so limited and their absence has been so long that most fans forget about anything they did when they were last in the WWE. Regardless, it's good to see that the company isn't relying upon its older, out of shape, out of date talent to get over but are bringing in newer, fresh talent to extend its run and prepare for the future. Wow, did I just out type John Meehan??

Score: 2 for 2


3. Wrestling Society X on MTV will be a success and continue on after the first season.

John Meehan: FACT. Having not yet seen the promotion, I've got nothing to go off of here other than word of mouth... but if a show with such a flash in the pan shelf life as "My Fair Brady" can be picked up by MTv-owned VH-1 for a second season, then I see absolutely no reason why the kind folks at Viacom won't be willing to saddle their MTv horses to a grungy, teen-geared music-meets-wrestling mashup show for a year or two. MTv has proven time and again (HeAt and Tough Enough) that they're not opposed to getting in bed with a wrestling program so long as it fits their demographic and the business is "on the upswing," and with ECW back in action and TNA on the rise, there's little cause for doubt that MTv will hedge their bets with a no-brainer demographic-friendly wrestling show so long as they can ride the coat tails of the industry's latest resurgence. Whether the show will be *good* or not, of course, is *anyone's* guess... but will MTv pick it up for a few years to try their luck? MeeThinks that's a clear-cut "yes."

Steve Sullivan: FACT. I say that loosely because you have to define the word "Success" here. If success is considered a 0.5 rating, then maybe. I wrote about this a few weeks ago and I really do believe that Wrestling Society X will become valuable and will become very unique if it is given a chance by wrestling fans. In fact, it will probably become everything that ECW isn't. And this kind of goes back to the 1st question about the value of extreme rules. WSX will likely be very liberal in the beginning with weapons and high risk moves and such, and they have to be careful to not burn the audience out. That being said, will it last more than a year? Probably. 2 Years? Doubtful. Not on MTV at least. I can see it moving on to a different TV station and lasting maybe another year or so but they are going to need more than a 30 minute TV show to get anywhere near contention of becoming a long term success.

Score: 3 for 3


---SWITCHAROO!!!---


4. WWE Saturday Night's Main Event, after doing a low 3.1 rating last time, will top the 4.0 mark this Saturday.

Steve Sullivan: FICTION. There's no way. Take a look at the card and you'll see why. First off, the poison that is the Diva Search is going to be included in this, which is an automatic "change the channel" for most people. Secondly, there is not one match on the entire card that is very appealing. Last March, there was the Main Event vs. Main Event Raw vs. Smackdown match and the great Street Fight Match between Shane and HBK, but this time, its DX and The Spirit Squad. And while DX has been fun and all, it hasn't really improved Raw's ratings any. Third, nobody wants to see John Cena fight for the WWE Title anymore. Not for awhile anyway. It's a shame about RVD, because had he been on this card, he may have helped the card out. It's Summertime. It's Saturday night. People party during the summer and Saturdays. Not to mention theres been very little hype. I will be VERY surprised if SNME draws more than 3.0.

John Meehan: FICTION. Sullivan hit things pretty squarely on the head with his paragraph, but just to elaborate a bit to hammer his point home. Last time, we were staring at one of the last stops on "The Road to WrestleMania" -- a MEGA-draw event in and of itself that was a can't miss prospect for any serious WWE fan. Now? We're killing time between Vengeance and The Great American Bash, two brand-specific summer PPV's that (historically) find more folks opting for an outdoor barbeque or a weekend at the beach rather than a night of sitting through a one-brand blowoff for such "epic" feuds as Mark Henry versus... I dunno, The Great Khali? SNME will be a fun little distraction this week, but there's simply no "must-see" television appeal to the thing when you consider the fact that WWE programming is currently broadcasting some THREE to FOUR times EACH WEEK regardless of a Saturday Night special. 3.0's is a healthy bet, perhaps with a slight bump for the Hogan segment. But a 4.0+? Not unless Brooke gets naked.

Score: 4 for 4


5. The Hulk Hogan/Randy Orton program has boring written all over it.

Steve Sullivan: FICTION. In fact, I think this will be the total opposite. Getting Brooke, who is finally legal and totally hot involved, we will get to see a side of Hogan we've never seen outside his TV show. This program could become very risque and entertaining. After watching Raw and seeing Orton involved in a squash with Val, Orton really needs the star power attached to his name. Hogan proved last year he's still got a couple matches left in him and I don't see why he can't pull off one more match with Orton to help put him back on top of Raw. The promo work will be a lot of fun for this match which will keep it from being anywhere near boring, unless both men sit down and have a father/boyfriend debate over dating Brooke, then I'll have to hang myself.

John Meehan: FICTION. Absolutely not. Thanks to remarkable charisma and ridiculously protected booking arrangements, Hogan will go down in wrestling history as the single most over performer in the history of the business (sorry, Flair... it's true. If Hulkster had challenged for the ECW title this past week you could have *guaranteed* a hot crowd. Flair? Just another day at the office...). As such, watching him stand toe-to-toe with ANYONE always is sure to get an arena on their feet. And to pit him against the self-proclaimed "Legend Killer" like Randy Orton? A perfect (and rarely LOGICAL) "put up or shut up" feud to see what the brash young superstar's really got. Now I know Sullivan is salivating over the Brooke angle for other reasons [hint: (o)(o) ], but I for one think that using Brooke as the springboard for a Hogan return is one of the few logical "tricks up the sleeve" that WWE has left regarding the Hulkster. They need a reason for him to be involved on the show (kayfabe reason: to help put over Brooke's singing career), and the angle takes its logical roots almost immediately thereafter (kayfabe reason: dick young guy gets a little too friendly with his daughter). Smart, LOGICAL booking that practically writes itself from there on out... so I see no reason why the program should be anything short of entertaining. Oh yeah, and here's hoping Hulkster goes over CLEANLY in the end, too... just to show Randy his place.

Score: 5 for 5


6. Batista no longer has the star power he had prior to getting injured.

Steve Sullivan: FICTION. There is a saying, absence makes the heart grow fonder. Though I have always been a believed that its better to be surprised rather than be told what you are going to get when it comes to comebacks. The fact that WWE.com counted down the days before Batista returned made his return kind of anti-climatic and pretty much ruined the rating they could have received the following week. Regardless, Smackdown is a barren wasteland of talent, so once The Animal gets his revenge on Henry and returns to the top of Smackdown, Batista will return to his dominant self that will draw crowds and once Smackdown actually gets some decent talent, big crowds and buyrates.

John Meehan: FICTION. The countdown to Batista's return was genius, as it gave fans (like Mee) a reason to tune in for a show that they might otherwise opt out of watching. In return, we were rewarded with a big, ring-ready Animal who looked as healthy as ever and assimilated perfectly right where he'd left off in the main event picture alongside of Rey Rey and Mark Henry. Now that The Animal is back in action (and hopefully healthy to boot), I see no reason why he should have any trouble reclaiming the spot that he'd once so proudly (and justly) occupied prior to the injury. True, you'll never be able to match the exact sort of "buzz" that Big Dave first had when he FINALLY split from Evolution, but that's no reason to believe that an inevitably-upcoming program against Booker (Smackdown!'s hottest heel in recent memory) or even Mysterio (yup, "Good Friends, Better Enemies Part II") should fall short of bringing the fans around to the Batista Bandwagon in no time.

Score: 6 for 6

PERFECT SCORE!!!


These two finish with a perfect score! Join us next week for MORE Fact or Fiction!