411 Fact or Fiction 09.07.06: Angle/TNA, Nitro, Carlito, More

Posted by Ashish on 09.07.2006

It's week NINETY SEVEN of Fact or Fiction with Csonka, Randle, and the future of the WWE Women's Division...

Welcome back to yet another week of Fact or Fiction! This week, two Fact or Fiction regulars, Larry Csonka and Stephen Randle, battle it out like only they can! Let's get to it!


1. Kurt Angle will eventually end up wrestling a TNA match.

Larry Csonka: FACT. And this has nothing to do with the fact that I am a TNA supporter. WWE is pissed with Angle right now. He failed a wellness test for abusing painkillers and was suspended for 30-days. He was brought back after this and was still having issues with the painkiller, showing up to events in horrible shape and denying he was having any problems. WWE decided that they had to step in and try and help Angle. Angle refused the help so WWE released him. Now WWE released that he was an emotional mess when leaving the building. WWE is pissed because Angle won't go to rehab and take care of himself and Angle is pissed at WWE because he thinks he is fine.

Kurt Angle's greatest attribute is his intensity and determination to be the very best at everything he does.

Kurt Angle's greatest detriment is his intensity and determination to be the very best at everything he does.

Angle will be determined to show that he is fine and that WWE made a mistake. Kurt Angle is a crown jewel to TNA and MMA groups right now, he's an opportunity, ratings, buyrates and dollar signs all wrapped up into one pilled up, atrophied package. TNA is at a crossroads where they want a 2-hour show and better buyrates. They will do about anything to get him I feel, including throwing STING money at him to work 3-days a month. Angle wants to prove a point, they want to take the step, I feel that it will happen. Whether it should or not is a different story.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. As pissed as WWE may or may not be with Kurt Angle for his problems, the fact of the matter is that this isn't another say, Jeff Hardy situation, where they released him for drug problems and let TNA pick him up because he was pretty much washed up and coked-out at that point. This is more of a Mick Foley or Matt Hardy situation, where if TNA even comes close to signing him to work a match, WWE will throw a pile of money at him just to keep him under contract and deny TNA a bonefide main event talent that's been all over TV the last...ever. The only WWE talent that has ended up in TNA is talent that WWE has made quite clear they didn't really want around anyway, for a variety of reasons. Or Christian, who refused to come back because he was a huge jobber. That's it. That's why Brock Lesnar isn't in a TNA ring, even though his ten-year no-compete clause doesn't exist anymore (in any form we actually KNOW of). That's why when Matt Hardy was a day away from debuting live on TNA PPV, WWE signed him back. WWE will never, ever let go of a wrestler that they think has any potential in their organization, especially someone who they've invested as much as they have as Angle. Sorry Larry, it's a good dream, but in the end, just a dream.

Score: 0 for 1


2. ECW needs top level WWE talent like DX wrestling each week to maintain its current ratings level.

Larry Csonka: FICTION. ECW doesn't need Batista, DX, Undertaker or any of those guys to maintain its current ratings. ECW needs to make and keep their own identity and create good episodic television. There have been slight signs of this but they never seem to maintain it. I will say in their defense that they are in the early stages and are still trying to secure a core roster and angles. What hurts is all of the extra outside guys coming in and Show being used on Raw PPVs. They need to concentrate on the brand and the brand alone and they'll be fine.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. The best weeks of ECW have been weeks where there wasn't a "special" main event involving talent from the other shows. Now, I understand WWE's reasoning, because ECW was on a twelve week trial period, and they felt the need to do whatever they could to plus supposed star power into the show to draw in viewers. But ECW now has over a year to play with, so it's time to reset the boundaries between the brands and let them play on their own for a good long time. Although I do question how the Royal Rumble is going to work this year. CM Punk in the Rumble, anyone? Anyway, ECW at this point has a large enough roster that they're almost in danger of overbloating it, especially for an hour-long show. TNA has this same problem: you only have an hour and can only have so many matches and wrestlers appear in that time. You run the risk of predictable shows, where ECW every week becomes tag match involving Test and Knox, Sandman-related promo, Thorn or CM Punk match, Shannon Moore says something emo, in-ring promo segment, main event. Throw Raw and Smackdown wrestlers into the main event, and that's one less segment you can devote to ECW wrestlers. So no, no more WWE wrestlers in ECW. Let's build ECW with what exists right now.

Score: 1 for 2


3. The WWE Women's Division won't last very long without Trish Stratus.

Larry Csonka: FACT. To a point. They can't have a GOOD division when Trish leaves because they don't have enough WRESTLERS and don't take the time to build one. As I discussed in My Latest Take On WWE needs to dedicate some time, effort and money for this to work and become a real division again. If they don't all we'll have is worthless diva whore sin gravy bowl matches and Victoria and Mickie James having the same match month after month. While they are fine matches, it is boring and repetitive. In theory it will last no matter what, but it won't be good unless they actually do something to make people care about it.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. The Women's title has been retired and unretired so many times, put on Stephanie McMahon for a year and a half, put on an injured Trish for nearly a year, dropped in a trash can in an entirely different promotion, and it's STILL around to some degree. With Trish gone, they lose the fall-back of her carrying everyone around her, and definitely, the wrestling quality of the division is down to Mickie James, Lita, Victoria, and a returning Beth Phoenix. But really, when has the division ever had much more than four decent wrestlers anyway? Well, there was that high point where they even managed to have an eight-woman battle royal, but seriously. The Women's Division will miss Trish, definitely, but it's not like the women's division was ever going to light the wrestling world on fire anyway. It'll hang around as a novelty division long after you or I have ceased to care. Hell, it'll probably last longer than the cruiserweight division.

Score: 1 for 3


---SWITCHAROO!!!---


4. Johnny Nitro will never rise very high in WWE under his current gimmick because it is too much like Edge's character.

Stephen Randle: FACT. Ish. Ashish is breaking out the complex questions this week, it seems. Now, first we have to debate if being IC champion is very high. Sure, it's not bad, but Shelton Benjamin held that belt for most of the last two years, and where is he now? Okay, so if we're saying "will Nitro rise higher than IC champion", then we've got a definite fact. Nitro hasn't currently shown me anything that really suggests that he's more of a top of the bottom or bottom of the top sort of guy, one of those guys who hangs around the IC level, occasionally challenges for the big belt but loses, and who never main events a PPV on his own. That's not to say he's not talented, he just doesn't have "it". You think WWE doesn't know that? That's why he's got a valet, after all.

The reason for the "ish" is that I don't really feel like Nitro's character is that much like Edge's character. Maybe I'm just not looking at it right, maybe it's because Edge is my boy, but I don't see it. Well, maybe I see it, but the reason why Edge's character is so much better is that it's better fleshed out. Johnny Nitro is a Hollywood pretty boy with a semi-hot chick. Edge is a guy who screwed over his best friend, stole someone's girlfriend (remember, in kayfabe those were two different people), obsesses about the WWE title that he feels he deserves for years of working his way up, manipulates everything and everyone to his own advantage, and isn't afraid to speak his mind on every single subject. Plus he has credibility from his years of TLC and hardcore-style matches, as well as technical skills from tooling around with the Smackdown Six. So, no, Johnny Nitro will not rise that high, because he's simply not a main event guy at this point. He's a one-dimensional character with a girl on his arm.

Larry Csonka: FICTION. Randle's second part is where the man is on. Nitro isn't like Edge at all. While Edge is all about the WWE title and sleeping with the skank he stole from his former friend, Nitro is all about looking good with his chick with any gold, tag or IC he can get. That being said, I think Nitro can rise high because management is behind him and he really has an HBK vibe about him. Also there is the Mick Foley factor that I think Randle overlooked. Nitro and Melina were a big factor in Foley getting fired. They followed that up with the press conference where they buried Foley. Now when Foley comes back, he will be looking for revenge and he will target Nitro to get back at Melina. I think this could work out like the Foley vs. Orton deal, where Foley will do his best to get them both over and in the end they will be more over. It's that reason that I think that Nitro will achieve a high level under his gimmick. It just fits him too well.

Score: 1 for 4


5. WWE should move Carlito to the main event scene on Smackdown.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. Am I the only person who sees the dearth of top-level faces on Raw? Let's see...there's John Cena...and DX...and...hm. Plus, Cena and DX don't interact at all, and DX seems to exist only to screw with Vince McMahon. So, in terms of WWE title matchups on Raw, you have...John Cena. If you go down the chain from there, you come to...Carlito. And Jeff Hardy, but let's not hold our breaths on seeing how that pans out. People will say Carlito will get lost on Raw behind Cena and DX, but how would he do any better on Smackdown behind Batista, Lashley, the Undertaker, and Rey Mysterio? I'd say he's got a better fighting chance of hitting the main event on Raw, and his main event match this past Monday seems to justify my decision. In case you missed it, he's fighting a "main eventer" in Orton at Unforgiven, the outcome of which will probably determine which of those guys is on the way up, and who's on the way down. We already know where I'm putting my money, but more importantly, his match with Orton and storyline with Trish show that he hasn't been forgotten by WWE Creative, and probably they have serious plans for him in the near future.

Larry Csonka: FICTION. Carlito hasn't accomplished half of what he can on Raw yet. I hate to agree with Randle, since he is a Canadian PINKO, but he is right. It is so obvious that "The A-Show" isn't as great as they want you to believe. The fans get blinded by DX and the McMahon's but the truth is after that, there is Cena and Hardy and…Carlito. After that there is nothing. Carlito has a lot of upside, although I have problems with him as a performer at times the potential is there. WWE is famous for this start, stop and then kind of go theory with new talent as their way of "keeping them in check" instead of going with things while they are hot. Carlito doesn't need to act like the Rock. He needs to do his own thing, work on improving in the ring and he'll be fine and a great contributor on Raw.

Score: 2 for 5


6. TNA's ratings will continue to decline as the year goes on.

Stephen Randle: FICTION. I doubt it. I don't think they'll improve either, though. They haven't really improved or really declined outside of the same range in the entire Spike TV era, why would things change now? In fact, I expect a slight upward swing given that the Ultimate Fighter lead-in is back (though UFC might have almost milked that cow dry at this point in terms of good TV). The point is, the same people are still watching Impact now that were watching it when it started, that fabled "core audience" of wrestling fans who are going to watch regardless (or, at this point who are going to watch to theoretically "stick it" to WWE). I don't see them going anywhere, because the core audience is the fans who want to see TNA succeed so that they'll have something to watch that isn't WWE-related. I'm not going to say TNA doesn't have some serious problems with how they run the promotion (and not all of them involve Jeff Jarrett, either), but we're talking ratings, and I don't see them changing all that much, one way or the other.

Larry Csonka: FICTION. Randle does have a point in that the core audience will always be there, because they always have been. There are people that want an alternative and will watch week after week to get that. I do think that the ratings will grow again, but they have to make an effort to have better programming. TNA goes in spurts to where they will have great episodic TV and then lulls where the programming is just there. The fact is that they can't afford to have just "so-so" TV. They have to have great TV week in and out to get people to buy the PPV's and if they can do that, ratings and buyrates will both go up.

Score: 3 for 6


These two finish 3 for 6! Join us next week for more Fact or Fiction!