High Road/Low Road 09.22.06: Unforgiven 2006
Posted by Sat on 09.22.2006
Unforgiven was this past Sunday. Was it a good pay per view or was it a bad pay per view? You decide in this week's High Road/Low Road.
Welcome back to the High Road/Low Road! A brief explanation of the column: Uncle Trunx takes the Low Road (negative view) on angles, gimmicks, and other wrestling related "stuff" while Sat takes the High Road (positive view).
The Results for the Ric Flair:
High Road: 67%
Low Road: 33%
E-Mails:
These are all of the e-mails that we received this week. We do not respond to the actual e-mail, but the reply to your e-mail will be below.
Manu Bumb Writes:
"Ric Flair is no longer a main eventer, but he can still be used to help some of the younger wrestlers. The reason that I say this is that when a wrestler beats Ric Flair, it still means something. "
Sorry, but I've gotta disagree with you there. Rico beat Ric Flair, and it meant nothing other than the fact that they were burying Flair. Umaga beat Flair - same thing, it was meaningless. I don't see him as more of a monster for doing it.
"if he keeps wrestling, I don't think it'll be long before he's jobbing on Heat."
I've got to disagree with that. Flair will never end up on.....oh wait, he already has. Beat Val Venis with a figure four sometime back on Heat. Okay, you win.
What about a High/Low about Vince pushing himself as the top draw?
Sat: You do have a point with Rico, but the reason it didn't help Umaga was that right after Umaga beat Flair, nobody heard from Ric Flair. Your suggestion has been noted. However, I don't see Vince pushing himself as a top draw until WrestleMania.
Uncle Trunx: Ric Flair losing to Rico and Umaga shows how far he has fallen since his prime. I don't think he's yet lost on Heat, although I'm willing to be proven wrong. Sadly, I can see Vince McMahon pushing himself for a long time yet.
Perhaps we should wait and see how things shake down in the next few weeks.
The Bram Writes:
Good article this week guys.
As much as I enjoyed Flair and Foley going at it in the I Quit match at SummerSlam, I have to agree that its time for Ric to hang up his boots and retire. I'm embarrassed whenever he comes out and I have to see his sagging old man tits. It's just gross. During the build to the SummerSlam match, he cut some really good promos and I agree that he could probably really help get younger superstars over as a manager. However, I don't think that Shelton Benjamin would be a good match for him, unless it was as part of a stable. Maybe with Mr. Kennedy...Kennedy, MVP, and Kenny after the Spirit Squad breaks up.
Sat: His "sagging old man tits" are bad, but the guy is 57 years old. My opinion on Ric Flair is that if he can still wrestle, then he can keep wrestling.
Uncle Trunx: Possibly putting Ric Flair as part of a stable might work; it did with Evolution, to an extent. As long as he plays the mentor role and can wrestle less frequently, it might be a good way to keep him involved, playing to his strong promo ability and undoubted knowledge of how to work a great match without having to expose his "Sagging old man tits" too much. Certainly better than making him a jobber to the stars.
Floyd Hartlett Writes:
Hello there. It made a nice change this week for Uncle Trunx to fill in for Rajah (which I assume is not a permanent fixture, but it was good to mix things up a bit - maybe he should replace Sat on another one, and alternate like that one every month or so), but despite his best attempts I had to vote high road on Ric Flair. I still find him very entertaining and enjoy watching him. I believe his wins over Mick Foley recently actually served to help Flair more than it did to hurt Foley. And, I know Mr. Trunx meant well, but I find it a bit patronizing to suggest that Flair shouldn't be made to wrestle and should be a valet, because if Flair didn't want to be wrestling he wouldn't be wrestling. This isn't a Vickie Guerrero pension-plan thing going on here, so give the man a break. But anyway, as I said, good article as always and congratulations to Trunx for getting a good push up the site roster.
Sat: I guess you missed the previous week's edition because Rajah will no longer be joining us. With the Flair/Foley matches, I felt like it didn't help anybody. Both of them came out even-steven.
Uncle Trunx: I think I'm about permanently; at least, until I get so many complaints they boot me off the site! I certainly didn't mean to be patronizing about Ric Flair, and I'm sure he does want to wrestle; I just feel that by doing so and losing to the likes of Umaga in about a minute, he's hurting his legacy, a legacy which should see him respected as one of if not the greatest champion ever.
NCHS08JOHNBRYANT Writes:
I have a few questions and even a dream match. Do you guys think a CM Punk/Chris Benoit match would be any good? Would the Great Khali make a better big man for TNA than Kevin Nash? and finally: Who should Samoa Joe get beaten by first? now onto the dream match. it's an Iron man match between a fully healed Kurt Angle & Bret "The Hitman" Hart. gimme your thoughts on this match.
Sat: I have only seen CM Punk's ECW matches, but I have heard that he is pretty good in the ring, so I would have to assume that a Benoit/Punk match would have to very good. The Great Khali would not be a better big man than Kevin Nash. I think that Samoa Joe is going to get beaten by Jeff Jarrett at No Surrender. Call me crazy, but I believe it. Should Jarrett beat Joe? No, but that is what is going to happen. Jeff Jarrett is already hated by the fans, but can you imagine the heat he would have if he beat Samoa Joe. I don't see the Iron Match Man happening because Bret isn't going to wrestle anymore.
Uncle Trunx: I think CM Punk vs. Benoit could be a great match, although personally I'd hold fire on it until Punk is more established in the new ECW. Kevin Nash is 1000 times better than Khali. I have to agree with Sat: Jarrett will end the streak, making himself the most hated man is wrestling by doing so. Given that he's being promoted as such, I think this is his aim. As for the dream match, it'll never happen but I'd love to see both men in their prime go at it.
Cody Drennen Writes:
Hi, I been reading the columns the past few weeks and this is my first time writing. I am going to take the High Road on Ric Flair because even though he is getting up there and his body is not like it was, he can still bring in some good matches. Just look at the TLC Match with Edge this year, or the Extreme Rules Match against Big Show on ECW. Now I do have to admit that him losing to Umaga so fast really hurt him but I say if he wants to wrestle then why stop him?
Sat: Ric Flair hasn't lost that much in the ring. If he was botching moves and having bad matches, then I would say that he needs to retire, but that is not the case.
Uncle Trunx: As I said above, he's murdering his legacy. He still has a lot to offer but not as an active singles wrestler. As a mentor to a younger wrestler or as part of a stable, he could be kept reasonably strong without having to lose or tarnish his great achievements in the past.
Robert Smith Writes:
I would really love to see Flair capture the title again, actually I would like to see the WWE really prove their loyalty to the sport by letting someone Flair hold, all 3 world belts at one time, as soon as he wins all and holds all three major titles, let him retire then, and let him announce the start of the brand new 4 horsemen with Flair as their manager, and the four horsemen are, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, and I really thought hard on this one but you gotta have a great young star, Carlito, now that would be a great story line, and Flair could be honored as well for giving us so much entertainment all these years in the ring and every once in a while he can slap someone
Sat: I don't know if having Ric Flair win all three titles would be a good idea. When he wants to retire, you can give him the "Trish treatment" and let him hang it up. I would love to see the Four Horsemen, but I just don't see it happening.
Uncle Trunx: Flair winning all of the major titles at once would be somewhat ridiculous, especially if they then had to find new champions for all of them. Bringing back the 4 Horsemen now might be a good way for Flair to regain his importance, but I don't like the idea of the personnel you've suggested. And I think we'd all like a job where every once in a while we can slap someone!
Matt Short Writes:
Straight up high road on Ric Flair.
It's true, he can't wrestle the way he used to. You're not going to be seeing Flair go 20 minutes with just about any one and pull out an instant classic. But regardless, Flair is still able to hold my interest. And I think it's partially because of his age.
Since he's unable to physically wrestle like he could back in the day, they now seem to be masking that by putting him in gimmick matches. For example his cage match with Triple H in 2005 (I think) and the TLC match against Edge, not to mention his ECW style match against the Big Show. Everytime I see Flair wrestle that type of match I know that I'm watching one of the greatest performers of all time in the ring. I also know that he's much older than he used to be. Watching an old man take a bump from the top of a ladder through a table is terrifying. But it is entertaining too. Flair has always been a pro at selling and his age just makes it seem more legitimate. Everytime he takes a back body drop I think he's going to die. Plus, he bleeds when you look at him. It's insane sometime to think that the man can still perform at all.
But should he retire? Not just yet. I'm still enjoying him right now, though I haven't liked that he rarely has anything to do. His feud with Foley was amazing and I do hope that at some point they follow up on that. Aside from that I'm all for using him to enhance younger talent. He did it for Orton and Batista in Evolution. His one-minute jobbing to Umaga doesn't bother me now as much as when it first happened. Since the WWE wanted Umaga to go over huge, why not have him beat one of the few living legends who can still compete? And why not do it in a dominating fashion? Flair is always damn more entertaining then Hacksaw or Hogan can ever be. I feel like his time in the ring is running out and I'm just wondering how they're going to send him off. With any luck it'll be in style and I hope with a 17th world title reign
Sat: We may have a new e-mail God, Uncle Trunx. I didn't really notice that he has been in a bunch of gimmick matches, but you are right. Still, I have been impressed with Flair and if he can keep wrestling then he should keep doing so. The reason the WWE keeps using Ric Flair is that he is the most valuable legend that they have. The WWE keeps bringing back these legends that are no longer relevant or who are only in for themselves. Again, I would love to see Ric Flair get the "Trish treatment".
Uncle Trunx: All good points, although I can't see Ric Flair getting a 17th world title, myself. Flair is much better than the other legends that keep being signed up again, but that's not high praise as I said in the column. I also worry when I see Ric Flair taking dangerous bumps in gimmick matches, it's another reason I'd like to see him end or limit his in ring participation while he is still in reasonable physical shape; I'd hate to see him barely able to move in a few years. He is indeed still entertaining; I just feel that there are ways to keep him entertaining without turning him into a jobber or having him wrestle a full schedule. Being a manager or the senior guy in a stable would work, as I said above.
James Jackson Writes:
As a certified Ric Flair mark I'm glad to see you finally followed up on my email from weeks and weeks ago to do a High Road/Low Road on the GRREATEST WRESTLER EVER!
Unfortunately I have to take the LOW ROAD on the Nature Boy. Ric Flair has become a cartoon, a spoof of who he was. Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler alive today. His in ring accomplishments are unparalleled. Hogan may have made more money and headlined more WrestleManias but at a time when real wrestling fans were looking for someone who could go for more than 10 minutes Ric Flair was the answer. When wrestling fans wanted someone to hate and I MEAN HATE, Ric Flair was the answer. When real wrestling fans were looking for someone to LOVE Ric Flair was the answer.
I just spent part of this past weekend mourning the Notre Dame loss to Michigan by watching the Ric Flair 3 disc DVD. Flair could do anything you wanted him to do. He had a tremendous work rate. He could brawl, he mastered ring psychology. He had legendary feuds with some of the "hallowed" names in wrestling: Terry Funk, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat, Magnum T.A., and Dusty Rhodes. He could wrestle for an hour or he could sneak you in the parking lot. His promos were legendary and do we need to talk about the GREATEST STABLE OF ALL TIME, the Four Horsemen.
With all that said those days are long long gone. Ric Flair is not the man he used to be. He famously said, "To be the man, you have to beat the man." Well at this point let's see who has beat the man in the last 6 months. Hmmm... Uuuummmaaagggaaa. Nuff said....it's time to go.
I hoped and prayed that Vince would give Ric one last run maybe giving him and IC title win again and then let him pass the torch to Carlito (over a feud about Flair's comments over Carlito's dad and spending all night with Carlito's Momma in Puerto Rico back in the day) or Johnny Nitro, after getting caught up with Melina all night long, Flair would lose to an up and comer in Johnny Nitro. But it appears that Vince has no such plans for Mr. Flair.
Flair is too old, too out of shape looking and too much of a shell of what he used to be to continue. Give the roster spot and the airtime to a younger wrestler who can grow and make the company money for the next 10 years rather than someone who may not be alive 10 more years.
The perfect role for Ric Flair would be as the G.M. of Raw. Let him make the matches. Let him work with some of the younger guys backstage. Let him continue at times to give promos to show the young guys how it's done. If/when confronted by wrestlers over the matches he makes we all know that Flair can hold his own on the mic and on those rare occasions when a wrestler decides to put his hands on the G.M. we know that Flair is good for a "wild man" routine, including some smartly placed chops to the chest. Flair has enough old history to be key to some storylines. He has enough recent history with HHH, Batista, Randy Orton, HBK, Umaaaga (Estraaaddaaa) to make storylines interesting.
As the G.M. Flair can stay attached to the business, stay on TV but can stop the bleeding of his legacy. In the NFL there is nothing more pitiful than seeing a legend such as Reggie White, playing for the Carolina Panthers that last year of his career. Or Bret Favre struggling throwing 3 interceptions in his first game in 2006. Please Ric and please Vince. Move Ric Flair out of the ring. I've watched him wrestle since about 1976 ish and the man in the ring now, using the name Ric Flair is not the same person I used to love to hate and hate to love from my childhood.
I'm going to take the low road and say Ric Flair should not be wrestling anymore. WWE please TAKE THE HIGH ROAD AND LET THIS MAN HAVE HIS LEGACY AND DIGNITY. Make him the G.M. and we can all be happy
Sat: When I did this High Road/Low Road, I knew that you had made the suggestion, but I didn't know when you had made it. Let's just say that it wasn't weeks and weeks ago; it was actually months ago. It took this long because I thought it was a good one to keep for a good time.
Ric Flair is not where he was twenty years ago, but he is still a good addition to have on the roster. Ric Flair would be good as the general manager as RAW, but again, if he can still wrestle, then he should continue to do so. I don't really compare Ric Flair to Brett Favre; I kind of compare him to Roger Clemens. Still pretty good, but not as good as he was in his prime.
Uncle Trunx: Ric Flair as GM… there's an interesting idea…
This week's High Road/Low Road featuring...
Unforgiven 2006
Sat & Uncle Trunx: The High Road and Low Road were both done before RAW.
I.C. Title Match: Johnny Nitro versus Jeff Hardy
High Road:
This was a great opening match. Both guys may have a problem with the promos, but both guys will give you a solid match. The ending to this match was perfect because you need to keep Jeff Hardy strong and leave open the possibility of a rematch. Also, the I.C. Title division is looking very good. You have Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, Johnny Nitro, & Jeff Hardy. That is one hell of a division and you are guaranteed a great match with any one of the these guys.
Low Road:
The problem with Jeff Hardy is that his reputation exceeds his current capabilities. Anytime he appears, the expectation is that he will Swanton through a table or something, which he's really not up to these days. The screwy finish hurt this match in my opinion and the dreadful promo afterwards merely served to show this for what it was; a way to get Jeff Hardy on Pay Per View again, with the emphasis on a Hardy reunion. I prefer it when pay per view matches are more than just a trailer for an upcoming event.
Umaga versus Kane
High Road:
I don't really think there is a High Road for this, but I will give it a shot. Kane has had nothing to do since "May 19", so it does give him something to do. Umaga has not had a long-term feud because he has been "bulldozing" through everybody. The ending allows for this feud to continue and it will allow the WWE to see if there is a long term potential in Umaga.
Low Road:
Deep joy, a double count out which sets up another match where we get to see yet more of these two lumbering into each other! A second match with a screwy finish, which will be resolved elsewhere, to the detriment of this show. As you say, there's no high road to be had here. They're charging money to watch the build up to future matches. Isn't that what the free TV shows are for?
World Tag Team Title Match: Spirit Squad versus The Highlanders
High Road:
The only tag teams that RAW has are the Spirit Squad, Highlanders, and Murdoch & Cade (I don't consider Viscera and Haas a viable tag team). Murdoch and Cade haven't been on RAW in a long time and they would have to be built up to be considered a threat again. So, that means that the WWE made the right decision in giving the Spirit Squad the win. By having the Spirit Squad win, it allows for this feud to continue because the Spirit Squad cheated and it is allows for the WWE to build some credible contenders (Murdoch & Cade and Cryme Tyme).
Low Road:
Having had DX demolish the Spirit Squad for months, they then keep the belts on the Squad and make the whole "division" look like a joke. Which it is, really. Joke Scotsmen vs. Joke Cheerleaders. Adding Murdoch and Cade or Cryme Tyme into the mix won't stop it being a joke. This was painful watching; I long for a proper tag division again but don't see it happening anytime soon.
Hell in a Cell: The McMahons & The Big Show versus DX
High Road:
This will definitely be the end of this feud. Both McMahons were stretchered out and should not be on RAW for a long time. The match was brutal, which it should have been. The Big Show came out looking the strongest out of the losers. I haven't been a big fan of this feud, but everything was done the way it should have been done at Unforgiven. DX can move on to better things and the McMahons should be off of everybody's TV. Plus, the ECW champion was not buried.
Low Road:
I never, ever want to see Big Show's naked backside again. Hell in a cell should never be devalued like this. Anyone who ordered this show has paid money to see Vince have his face pushed into Big Show's bare bottom. I hope they can look themselves in the mirror every morning knowing that to be true. Once again, the McMahons take up PPV space and DX are relying on a nostalgia pop from 1998.
Women's Title Match: Lita versus Trish
High Road:
This was the perfect way to pay tribute to the best women's champion ever. Trish has meant more to the division, then any other women's wrestler and she deserved to be rewarded for it. I, and I believe most people looked at the women's division as Trish and everybody else and that is why I have no problem with Trish winning the title in her final match. Now, the women's division can start over with some type of tournament. The WWE has a ton of talent, so a tournament is not that far-fetched. Here are the women that the WWE could utilize: Lita, Victoria, Torrie Wilson, Candice Michelle, Mickie James, Melina, Beth Phoenix (she should be coming back), and Maria. You could also go to SmackDown and pick up Jillian Hall (she isn't doing anything) and that would give you nine participants for the tournament. The best thing for the WWE is that they should start over with their women's division because it was Trish and everybody else.
Low Road:
I agree that this was the best way for Trish to go out and a rare moment of class from the WWE. The low road here is that she's gone, and there isn't anyone even close to her in terms of being the total package; a charismatic female performer who can wrestle face or heel and who looks like a million bucks. Trish will be missed and I fear her replacement will be a diva search contestant: half the women you named are out injured or talentless as wrestlers. Please come back one day Trish. The division needs you.
Randy Orton versus Carlito
High Road:
Carlito is a great wrestler, but he should not have won this match. Everybody is saying the Carlito should be moved to the main event scene, but I disagree because I haven't been impressed with "face" Carlito. Carlito was way better has a heel, but since he turned face, he has lost something. Turn Carlito heel and then we'll talk. Randy Orton needed this win because his feud with John Cena is around the corner and he needs to be built up. This win will really help Randy Orton because Carlito is over with the fans and it was a clean win. Excellent decision by the WWE to get Randy Orton the clean win, something we rarely see from the heels.
Low Road:
This win for Orton spits in the face of the wellness program and pushes look over substance yet again. If it means that we have to endure Orton vs. Cena for months, it'll be doubly bad, and further prove that a wellness violation is of no consequence and that Orton will be forced down our throats no matter what. Carlito was just starting to gain some momentum and get over, and this match will have cut all that off. It also means that Carlito loses clean to the man who lost to Hulk Hogan less than a month ago; the whole intercontinental title scene suffers as a result.
WWE Title Match: Edge versus John Cena
High Road:
John Cena won this match and here is why he should have won the match:
1) If Edge had won the match, then this feud would have ended and this feud should not end. This has been one of the best feuds that the WWE has done since Batista/Triple H and by moving John Cena to SmackDown, it would have prematurely ended the feud.
2) There was no point in moving John Cena to SmackDown. If John Cena had been moved to SmackDown, he would have gained nothing. Sure, there would be two feuds waiting for him, when he got to SmackDown (Batista/Cena & Kennedy/Cena), but besides that there is nothing for him to do on SmackDown. He has already faced Booker T (sure he hasn't faced the King), but that was a best out of five and that was not good at all. Finally, SmackDown is the wrestling show and John Cena can't wrestle. On RAW, John Cena can still face Edge and Randy Orton, HHH, & HBK. So, why move your top star from your top show when there is no need for it.
3) John Cena does have a movie coming up, so what better way to promote it, then by having him as the champion.
Low Road:
In response to the three points you make:
1. Edge could have won this match if they hadn't added the stipulation
about Cena and SmackDown, which basically gave the ending away before the show. I fear this feud is likely to end now, with Orton replacing Edge as the contender. Cena vs. Orton will be a horror story of a feud. I'd much rather see Edge on top as he's a great wrestler who is over as a heel and was doing a good job of carrying the belt.
2. You say Cena can't wrestle, yet still endorse him as the champ? Based on what exactly? Crowd reaction? He's being booed out of the building and he's supposed to be a face! The addition of the stipulation was utterly unnecessary, Cena should have lost here and gone on to chase the title while another face challenger was built up, such as Carlito, who could have decent matches with Edge.
3. Oh joy, we get more "May 19th" style storylines, featuring John Cena, movie star or John Cena, "Marine". I guess if the guy can't wrestle (by your admission) then he has to do other things with his main event time. I prefer my wrestling shows to feature wrestling, not hype for films.
What we end up with is a show full of non-finishes, the wrong guy winning and hype for future events. The match of the night featured someone who is leaving and the overall picture is a very dark future for Raw.
Are you taking the High Road or the Low Road?
High Road/Low Road Plugs
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