411’s Countdown to WrestleMania 23: The WrestleMania VIII Roundtable Review
Posted by Larry Csonka on 03.18.2007
The Macho Man returns to battle The Nature Boy!
Introduction~!
WrestleMania VII saw the retirement of the Macho Man and the World Title win of Hulk Hogan. But many changes would happen in the year between WrestleMania VII and VIII. The Macho Man would be reinstated as Ric Flair entered the WWF and won the WWF title, all while claiming "before she was yours, she was mine" in regards to Miss Elizabeth. Hulkamania would find a new challenge in Sid Justice and the Rockers were dead; allowing Shawn Michaels to go solo and prove himself. Roddy Piper returned and won the IC Title, his first WWF title and would face off with Bret Hart. Let's meet the analysts and break down the show!
Our analysts today are…
He is eight parts through his twenty two part marathon, he is Stuart Carapola!
I lost track with Mathew Sforcina!
Star Trek Voyager lover Scott Rutherford!
International Man of Mystery Sean Garmer!
WrestleMania VIII~!:
Shawn Michaels w/Sensational Sherri defeated Tito Santana@ 10:38 via pin
Stuart Carapola: This was Shawn's first singles match on PPV after breaking away from Marty Jannetty and going solo. At the time, I was really confused that Michaels got Tito at WrestleMania instead of having a match with Jannetty, but I later found out that Jannetty had to disappear for a while due to "demons". So we got this much less interesting match instead. Knowing what he became, it's so weird to look back at this match and see Tito get anything in this match, including kicking out of the superkick which would later become Shawn's finisher. The match also had a weird finish where Tito tried to slam Michaels into the ring, but Michaels held onto the top rope and fell down on top of Tito for the pin. Not the most impressive way of making your solo debut, but I'd say he made out well enough in the end. This was also the only match a heel would win on the entire show.
Mathew Sforcina Notice how Shawn keeps opening WrestleManias? Well, ok, 2 in a row can just be coincidence, but with the third one after this, it proves that the WWF knew what it had there. After all, you needed snappy, good matches to open WrestleMania, and Shawn knew how to do those. Shawn was on the start of his single's career, while Tito was near the end of his. Hence while the ending wasn't in doubt, the journey there was still important, and these guys delivered. And Sherri looked as skanky as ever, and I mean that in a good way.
Scott Rutherford: Shawn the heel minus any singles titles and coupled with Sherri the perpetual side kick. Decent enough opener with Tito going out there and busting ass to make Shawn look like a pro. While I would say overall it wasn't quite as good as it should have been it painted the picture that was needed to be painted
Sean Garmer Two of my favorites battling it out in the opener of WrestleMania. This is Shawn's first single's match at WrestleMania and they picked a great opponent for him. Tito was hitting the twilight of his career and Tito always worked hard with everyone to make them look good. Sherri did her job well showing again how managers can help make the star, but that memo hasn't gotten to Vince yet I guess. I thought the match was good and the 2nd consecutive opener that did its job in getting the crowd hot. We did get to see Shawn use the Superkick, which would later become the well-known finisher it is today, but at the time he used it just as a regular move, while the Side Suplex was his finisher. Shawn using heelish tactics to win was fine with me. He won, and he did it well, that's what counts.
The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer defeated Jake Roberts @ 6:42 via pin
Stuart Carapola:
Undertaker and Jake Roberts had been buddies for most of 1991, but went their own ways shortly into 1992 when Undertaker prevented Jake from attacking Randy Savage and Elizabeth with a chair. They did this really cool angle on the Funeral Parlor after that where Jake slammed Undertaker's hand in a casket and started beating the crap out of him with a chair, but the Undertaker just shrugged it off and came after Jake, actually dragging the casket behind him while continuing to get whacked with the chair to boot. So if Jake gave the Undertaker everything he had with that chair and still couldn't put him down, how was he supposed to beat the Undertaker at WrestleMania? The answer was that he wouldn't. He tried to use his speed to duck around the Undertaker while getting his shots in, but the Undertaker eventually got a hold of him and just casually took him apart. Jake finally hit a pair of DDTs, but made the mistake of going after Paul Bearer on the floor, and the Undertaker sat up, came after him, and Tombstoned him on the floor. The three count was academic after that. This turned out to be Jake's last match in the WWF for several years. Talk about getting killed on your way out.
Mathew Sforcina This was another on the way out matches, although in this case since Jake was heading to the competition he was buried a bit more. Still, this is where the ‘Creepy Babyface' torch was kinda passed, with Taker no-selling everything up to and including the DDT, which was unheard of, before a Tombstone on the concrete floor killing Jake dead. Really satisfying match, ending Jake's evil WWF career.
Scott Rutherford: This is THE abject lesson in how to use your outgoing stars to make your newer stars shine. Jake had run his course in the WWF and UT was a freshly turned face and how was able to go out on wrestling's biggest stage and basically squash a long time main eventer, just added to his super human aura. Jake for his part could have dogged this in ways only he could but he really let himself get the shit beaten out of him in the name of putting over a guy with only a year in the WWF.
Sean Garmer This was Jake's final match in his early years. He left the WWE due to him and Vince having backstage issues over never being placed on the writing staff. So Jake really didn't have to be generous and let Undertaker beat him up like this, but that's why Jake was one of the best. Taker getting up from two DDT's was an unbelievable sight back in the day. Undertaker squashes another legend and the streak goes to 2-0.
WWF IC Title Match: Bret Hart defeated Roddy Piper @ 13:51 via pin to become the NEW IC Champion
Stuart Carapola: In addition to being a great match, this also became a big "passing the torch" moment. Roddy Piper just flat out NEVER got pinned in the WWF, not even by Hogan. I think he MIGHT have dropped a couple of falls here and there over the years, but if he did then you could count them on one hand. I think even Hogan suffered more pinfall losses during that timeframe than Piper did. As it happens, this was also going to be Piper's last match in the WWF for quite a while, and prior to his "retirement", he was given the Intercontinental Title out of recognition for all he had done for the WWF. Of course, he was going to have to drop the title on his way out, and it was decided that the honor would be given to Bret Hart. Like I said, it was a good match too, building off the fact that these two were good friends outside the ring, but both made it known that they would be willing to do whatever they had to do to walk out with the title. The match started off as a friendly contest, but once Piper sucker punched him, it was on. Bret got busted open on a bulldog and then, after a ref bump, Piper grabbed the ring bell and was going to use it to put Bret away. But as he stood over Hart with the bell in his hand, he hesitated before deciding that he wanted to beat Bret clean and put him in a sleeper instead. Bret got to his feet and kicked off the top rope, rolling over Piper's shoulders to score that rare pinfall win. Piper was disappointed, but handed the belt to Bret, helped him to his feet, and hugged him for the happy ending. For a guy who jobbed so rarely, Piper did Bret a huge favor by putting him over like this.
Mathew Sforcina Ah yes, Hart vs. Piper. What a simple but effective build up. Hart loses belt to Mountie when sick. Piper takes Hart's place in scheduled PPV rematch, wins title. Hart gets better, asks for title shot. Gets it. One of the best face vs. face matches in WWE PPV, matching Hart's IC defense against Bulldog at Summerslam. Piper teases the heel turn with the bell ("What the hell, use the bell!" God I love Heenan), decides to use the Sleeper instead, Hart debuts the up the corner flip pinfall spot. They embrace after the match, as well they should. Awesome, awesome match. Another must see.
Scott Rutherford: For a variety of reasons this match rules. This pointed that Bret could hang with the main event by matching the huge start power of Piper. Piper for his part wanted nothing more than to give Bret that final nudge into the main event and let himself get beaten for the first time in 14 years thus making Bret seem like a giant killer. I'm quite fond of pointing out matches that should be used as tool to teach newer wrestlers just what they are supposed to do and this is one of them. Perfect storytelling, perfect psychology and almost perfect ring work. Simply awesome.
Sean Garmer A great match from both men, Piper had never been beaten in 14 years and showed he still had some left in the tank, I don't think anyone expected Piper to go out there and wrestle Bret. As Gorilla put it "I would go right at Bret Hart" and that's what Piper did. He also helped show the world that Bret was ready to hang with the main eventers. They told a great story out there, the older wrestler proves he still has it but the younger man is cleverer and outsmarts the old man in the end. This is the way you put over young talent anyone looking to do that now, should take notes from this match. I think this has to be on the list of WrestleMania's greatest matches. Bret saved Piper from botching the Cross body to the outside spot, which ended up kinda cool. I also liked how even Bobby Heenan paid attention to the match and didn't joke a lot giving it importance. The best thing was Piper deciding not to use the ring bell because it showed he had respect for Bret and wanted this thing to have an ending. Piper can look back and say that he helped put over one of the best ever.
Jim Duggan, Sgt. Slaughter, Big Bossman & Virgil defeated The Mountie, Repo Man, & the Nasty Boys @ 6:31 via pin
Stuart Carapola: "Hey Vince, we've got a bunch of guys that don't have a program and all suck in the ring, but we want to get them on WrestleMania. What do you want us to do?" "PUT THEM IN AN EIGHT MAN TAG, PAL." Actually, to be fair, Boss Man was a pretty good worker for a big man. But that said, this was a crappy match that was basically put on for comedy and to get all these guys on the show. I would be remiss in not mentioning Family Feud host Ray Combs and his "funny" ring introduction where he surveyed 100 people to come up with the facts that the Mountie is a crappy cop, Repo Man isn't two faced, and the Nasty Boys share one brain. I'm not surprised he hung himself a couple of years later if that was the best material he could come up with. But that said, this match featured two of my favorite stupid gimmicks of all time, the Mountie and Repo Man. They sound like stupid gimmicks and they were, but both guys played the roles so over the top that you couldn't help but laugh. If anybody hasn't seen the vignettes of Repo Man going around repossessing kids' bikes or the Mountie's night in jail at Summerslam 91, I highly recommend going out and finding the tapes. The match itself sucked though, except for when Big Boss Man rammed his knees into Repo Man's nuts. Faces went over when Virgil hit Brian Knobbs with his face protector. Just don't ask, please.
Mathew Sforcina Get Boys PPV Cut 101: If you don't have enough for a battle royal, make a tag match. That said, Ray Combs (he used to host Family Feud) did an ok job introing everyone, and it's not that bad a match. But isn't certainly not a good one. But then, the fans needed to calm down from the IC match before the next one
Scott Rutherford: The JTTS match to get them on the card to give them a payday as a thank you from Vince. Funny, all bar Duggan and Repo Man were in high profile matches and angles last ‘Mania and here they are pretty much on the way out. Match itself was just sorta there and since it was full of people we didn't much care about I find I have little to care about also.
Sean Garmer So The Mountie does the work of the stooges and is an idiot, Repo Man is two faced, and the Nasty Boys are lucky dummies, yeah that about sums them up. This tag team match was made to get all these guys on the card and didn't amount to much. It seemed really disorganized to me and rather slow for a match like this. In fact, it was rather pointless to me.
Stuart Carapola: Ah yes, the infamous "she was mine first" storyline. This is one of those rare instances where they sign the match, add the angle later, and it happens to work out really well. Hulk Hogan was originally scheduled to get the WWF Title shot, but he got switched out to face Sid later in the night, and Savage got the shot instead. After the match was signed, Ric Flair started parading around with photos of he and Elizabeth, claiming he had been with her before Savage. Turns out the photos were fake, but Savage was pissed anyway and wanted to kill Flair for daring to insinuate what he had...oh, and by the way, he also wanted to win the WWF Title. This was a good match, but not as good as I would have expected out of these two together. Both men were really good at carrying less talented men than them to good matches, but for some reason it never totally clicked when they got in there with each other. Savage got the win with a handful of tights, but got beat up by Flair and Mr. Perfect after the match and Flair grabbed Elizabeth and kissed her, assuring us that the feud was going to continue on after WrestleMania.
Mathew Sforcina She was mine before she was yours! So Savage became un-retired in order to avenge Jake Roberts slapping Liz. He then got himself a title match. This was against Ric Flair, who jumped ship, bringing with him the Real World Title belt before he won the 1992 Rumble, the greatest ever, to win the WWF title. Flair then played mind games, telling Savage how Liz was his before she was Savage's, and promising to show the world the centerfold. We never did get to see it, alas, but we did get a really nice match out of it, with Flair working the leg as only he can, Perfect being a dick as only he can, and Savage playing the hero as he and only a few others can do. The ending is awesome too, as Flair gets a smidge too cocky, and gets rolled up with tights to lose the belt. Flair's after-match promo is the stuff of greatness, too. Great match. I know that's not very analytical, but it's the truth.
Scott Rutherford: If you read my review of the Ultimate Warrior/Randy Savage match from WM7 I talked about how the Savage character had a great arch going on for most of two year and that arch continues right up to this match. To keep the flow going here's part of that…
The seeds for this match go back to Savage's loss at WM5 and the "Macho Man's" character decline over the ensuing two years. I highly doubt it was planned that way but it couldn't have been more perfect. The once mighty and popular champion lost his woman, his title, his support and his credibility and after costing Warrior his world title he was literally running on fumes. Over the course of this EPIC 20 minute match was saw Savage hit rock bottom to the point he lost with Warrior covering him with just his foot and the cheap whore he was running with kicking him while he was down. But out of the ashes came redemption with his great love returning to save his soul and grant him a second chance.
So in the year that follows Savage reaffirms his love for his woman and after years of treating her badly finally stands up and defends her honor when a bad man comes to ruin her reputation. In the ensuing battle he shows courage in the face of injury and with odds stacked against him beats back his enemy and once again becomes the champion with his great love by his side.
Sure this all comes off as hackneyed but you look at his character from WM5 onwards (hell from when he entered the WWF) and everything that happens manages to add to his character and mean more as time goes on. Personally, I don't think there has even been a better handled character in wrestling than this period of Randy's career and this match just adds to that.
Sean Garmer I hate that this wasn't the main event because it's such a great match and the title was on the line too. Two of the greatest in one match-up didn't necessarily always mean guaranteed greatness. The storyline to this goes back to WM 7 when he got Elizabeth to love him again but then enter Flair who's that cocky guy with all the money that steals Elizabeth away. So this match is set-up after Flair win's the 92 Rumble to become the new WWE Champion. Randy is fighting for Elizabeth's honor, while Flair threatens to show a centerfold of the First Lady of the ring, if he wins. I like how they set this up with Flair cutting an interview about what he's going to do to Elizabeth and show Savage how much he sucks. While Randy points out that this match is more than the belt. Then the match begins and Macho Man shows his anger and frustration on all the things that Flair had done for him. Flair put in his moments as well injuring Randy's leg (which Savage sold awesomely well) once he got busted open he started to go kinda crazy. Finally seeing that Savage was not going to give up he has to hit him with Knucks in the face. Eventually Elizabeth comes out from the back and this gives Savage the emotional strength he needs to muster the surprising win over Flair. Yeah he cheated, but it wasn't like Flair didn't cheat either. Flair had taken away from Savage what mattered to him, well now, Savage took away what mattered most to Flair. It was a great moment that really could have been enjoyed at the end of the show, but ya know Hogan had to put himself more important once again.
Tatanka defeated Rick Martel @ 4:24 via pin
Stuart Carapola: Tatanka's almost two year long undefeated streak was just beginning here, and tonight's lucky victim was Rick Martel, who had just returned to the WWF after about a year-long layoff. Tatanka had some of his tribesmen do an Indian dance before the match, and the out of nowhere ending came when Tatanka caught Martel with a flying cross body off the ropes.
Mathew Sforcina Buffalo! Tatanka was just starting out, so naturally he got a push and thus dominate win here. Which is a slight shame, as Martel was better than this, but still he gave it his all. And Tatanka did get over, so Mission Accomplished, I guess.
Scott Rutherford: Squash match. Tatanka was on the start of his huge push and Martel was yet to get his feet in the mid-card so he got to play jobber tonight. Nothing match with nothing really interesting to talk about. Not like you guys would really care!!
Sean Garmer I've always kinda been indifferent about Tatanka because when he first started out he showed glimpses of being able to be a good wrestler that could be somebody. Obviously, I wasn't the only one as Vince gave a two-year win streak that started here. Even when he came back I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he showed that he wasn't all Vince thought he was and now no longer works for the company. Getting back to this, the match wasn't much more than a squash for Tatanka over an older Rick Martel.
Stuart Carapola: The Natural Disasters had been feuding with the Legion Of Doom for the WWF Tag Team Title at the beginning of 1992, but when the LOD mysteriously disappeared in February, they dropped the title to the completely unestablished team of Ted Dibiase and IRS. It was a really abrupt end to their reign, and I'm sure that there was more to the story than we're ever going to know, but the bottom line in storylines was that Money, Inc got the titles thanks to new manager Jimmy Hart and the Natural Disasters were pissed that Jimmy, who was their manager as well, left them to twist in the wind and went with Money, Inc. Everybody pretty much expected the Natural Disasters to destroy Money, Inc here and win the title, but they only got the destroying part right, because Money, Inc just grabbed the belts and walked out to give us a really cheap ass ending.
Mathew Sforcina It is so weird to see the Natural Disasters as faces. Just doesn't click with me. But despite the glory that is Money Inc, this match never got off the ground, again probably to do with the Disasters as faces. But hey, it's not a total loss.
Scott Rutherford: Buy this point in the card I've become a little blasé. We've had the two big matches I wanted to see and have no real interest in what is left to see. I was never really a mark for either of these teams and the match itself is really poor since Ted and Mike seem like they would rather be anywhere else.
Sean Garmer Money Inc really didn't seem interested here at all and it showed in the whole thing. I'm sure Natural Disasters weren't that easy to work with, but at least act like you care. Then we have the thing I loathe at WrestleMania stupid matches like this. We have a count out at the biggest show of the year. Not only that but, it was a real cheap one too, they just walk out knowing that they won't lose the titles what a bunch of crap.
Owen Hart defeated Skinner @ 1:13 via pin
Stuart Carapola: "Hey Vince, we've got a two minute hole in the show right before Hogan and Sid go on. What should we do?" "THROW A REALLY SHORT SQUASH IN THERE, PAL." That's pretty much the only explanation I have for this match. Owen was just getting started in the WWF as a member of the New Foundation, but Neidhart flaked out before making it to WrestleMania, so Owen got this match with Skinner, beat him, then spent the next year and a half jobbing.
Mathew Sforcina This would be your time constrained quickie match of the evening. They were hurting for time, so you get this 1 minute match. Which is a shame, I would have liked to see what Owen could have done with Skinner. Still, the die was cast.
Scott Rutherford: Droonnnneeeee. Look at the enthusiasm I've had for the last two matches and just sub it in here. Three matches like this would almost be cause for rioting in today's atmosphere. Luckily Owen went over here or I would have taking the tape out of my VCR and burnt it out of spite.
Sean Garmer What was that? Total waste of space on a PPV, you couldn't tell Hogan to take a minute longer with his entrance or something? At least Owen Hart got the win in a ridiculous match. I understand giving people a bathroom break before the big main event, but come on.
Hulk Hogan defeated Sid @ 12:28 via DQ
Stuart Carapola: It was implied that this was going to be Hogan's last match, so a lot of the promotion for the show was centered around that possibility. Sid, in the meantime, was the scary, deranged psycho who was big, muscular, intimidating, and completely out to lunch. He had gotten jealous of the preferential treatment Hogan got from WWF officials and turned against him on Saturday Night's Main Event to set this up. Standard Hogan match, but Sid accidentally became the first man to kick out of the leg drop. See, they didn't want to put him over Hogan, but they also didn't want to have Hogan win and then leave because Sid was still going to be there the next day. I wish they'd considered that at Summerslam 2005, but I digress. Anyway, Papa Shango was supposed to make a run-in, but missed his cue and Sid had to kick out instead. Oops. Anyway, Shango finally made the run in and the match ended in a DQ, and then we got the surprise return of the Ultimate Warrior, who came in, cleaned house on Sid and Shango, and celebrated with Hogan as the show went off the air. Hogan did leave after WrestleMania 8, but he was back within a year.
Mathew Sforcina While the ‘Hogan was retiring' argument never held for me as to why this match was on last, the shock end did justify it for me. This was Hogan Formula #2 in work, which by this time was showing it's age. Sid's turn being totally justified and Hogan clearly being a whiny bitch didn't help. The inclusion of Papa Shango, who missed his cue, is really weird, but the whole match was set up for the shock end, where the Warrior returned and cleared house. At the time, that was huge. Bring Back The Warrior indeed.
Scott Rutherford: I love this match. Seriously! I know it sucks ass as entertainment and wrestling but it more than makes up for it for the sheer chaos and bullshit that went along with it. For starters this was Hogan giving the big rub to Sid because Hulk was going to take a long sabbatical and what makes it funny is that Hogan was refusing to job or even lose in any way. So Hogan has to go over but you can't job him out to Sid was literally has money dripping off him if promoted right so they book a finish to have Hogan get the leg drop but the pin broken up by Papa Shongo. Well Papa was a little late arriving to the ring so Sid had to KICK OUT of the leg drop. People often talk about the Sharmen gimmick robbing Shongo of his push but you can't tell me Hogan wasn't seriously pissed off his fuck up cause Sid to have to do that kick out and you can't kick out of the leg drop! To top it off you have the run in from the Ultimate Warrior which created its own drama months later and proves that Vince will put aside ALL common sense if it means he makes money.
Sean Garmer This was supposed to be Hogan's last match, so as a kid I remember this being a big deal because my wrestling hero was leaving. I thought it was crazy that Sid kicked out of the Leg Drop. Knowing now, that he wasn't supposed to kind of takes the shock away from it. Considering the things that Papa Shango went on to do in WWE, it's funny seeing him interfere in this match here. I remember being sad because Hogan was going away, but happy to see Warrior back in the same token. Shortly after this HBK became my favorite that still stands today, but looking back, Hogan knew when to bring it, and it looked like at least he tried to give Sid a small rub. This is one of the few matches that I don't mind the DQ because Hogan didn't really retire, but WWE missed the boat by not giving Sid a win here that could have started a huge push for him.
The Conclusion:
Stuart Carapola: The WWF did a great thing by cutting back on the number of matches so that what they did have would have more time to build to better matches as a result. Piper-Hart and Flair-Savage were both really good, although not classics. Hogan-Sid was a lot better than you might expect, and Undertaker-Roberts was such a complete squash that it's still fun to watch years later. Great show overall, and even though Hogan would be back for a couple of months around WrestleMania 9, this show was really the end of the Hogan Era in the WWF.
Mathew Sforcina Two great title matches, a shocking end, and some decent work outside them is enough for a thumbs up from me. This is one of the more fondly remembered WrestleManias, and is still holds up fairly well today. Heenan and Gorilla on commentary tie the whole show together in a nice little package. Great WrestleMania, full stop.
Scott Rutherford: This is a two match show but you couldn't get two miner matches. Both historic and must see today they really held the attention of the crowd so that the matches around it didn't suck them of their will to live. It also was a dawn for the new WWF in a way with Savage, Hart, Flair, Michaels and later Curt Henning and Davey Boy Smith all coming into their own changing the face of the main event scene. You must see the two title matches to even consider yourself fans of wrestling but feel free to give the rest a wide berth.
Sean Garmer There are few things to watch for at this WrestleMania. Shawn Michaels first singles match and the continuation of Undertaker's streak. That's just preliminary stuff, you have to see the two big matches on this show. Bret vs. Piper is a great match-up that led to Bret's stardom. Flair vs. Savage tells a great story and in it are two of the best ever doing what they do best, getting it done in the ring. The Hoosier Dome was rocking and there was a big return at the end. Most of the card is not that great, but this WrestleMania certainly has its standout moments.
