411 Fact or Fiction 03.29.07: WrestleMania Edition!
Posted by Ashish on 03.29.2007
It's week ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO of Fact or Fiction with Larry Csonka, Arnold Furious, and a whole lotta WrestleMania talk...
Welcome to a special WrestleMania edition of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week, 411 Wrestling regulars Larry Csonka and Arnold Furious go at it!
1. WrestleMania 23 will go down as one of the greatest WrestleManias ever.
Arnold Furious: FICTION. While I'm looking forward to Wrestlemania, as I always do, the card really doesn't scream "greatest". It has a great deal of potential for Wrestlemania memories. Undertaker and possibly Shawn Michaels taking big belts could visually be very memorable as well as the shaving of Vince McMahon's head and the Money in the Bank ladder match. But will the most memorable and greatest match be comparable to Bret Hart v Steve Austin (WM13) or Steve Austin v The Rock (WM17) or Chris Benoit v Triple H v Shawn Michaels (WMXX)? If we're talking greatest then that's what it has to live up to. I think your potential difference maker is John Cena v Shawn Michaels. If that match delivers big time in terms of quality, which it very well could do, then we could all look back fondly on Wrestlemania 23.
Larry Csonka:FICTION. Yeah, I will agree with AF here. I think the card is good, and has the potential for some greatness, but at the end of the day I don't know if I will be able to say greatest ever. The chicks match should suck, Kane vs. Khali will suck, Umaga vs. Lashley could go either way, the ECW 8-man has already burnt me out before we have gotten to it, Benoit vs. MVP has the potential to be great, but could be just there. MITB will either be a great match or a cluster due to their being 8 guys in there. The Undertaker vs. Batista should be ok, but not great but Cena vs. HBK could really be something special. So there is potential for this to be a very good card, and perhaps even great, but one of the greatest ever? Doubtful, but I really hope that am wrong.
Score:1 for 1
2. WrestleMania 23 will deliver 1 million domestic PPV buys.
Arnold Furious:FICTION. It could come close but seeing as Larry Csonka is guessing at 710,000 buys I'll go with his superior knowledge. It'll probably pass 1 million globally though. I don't really care how many buys a PPV does unless I'm using it as ammo for bashing really shitty WCW shows. I think the WWE will end up being pretty content with the buys on this one.
Larry Csonka:FICTION. I cannot back down now! As I have said for weeks, 710,000 domestic and they will get the 1-million globally. Last year they got about 600,000 domestic, and that was after a long delay. I think they will do well this year, but I just can't see 1-millon domestic. But again, I can be wrong and if so, I will admit it, because everyone has seen the predictions for weeks.
Score:2 for 2
3. CM Punk will win the Money in the Bank Ladder Match this Sunday.
Arnold Furious:FICTION. I'll be rooting for him and I really hope he wins, which is why he probably won't. I had the same deal going with Benoit in the first MITB match and he got cut down by Edge right at the end. The winner of the MITB match is more likely to be Mr Kennedy who is pretty much primed for a switch to Raw. Although he has been on a downslide since losing his title match with Batista. One thing is for sure it'll be interesting to see how the winner's storyline plays out. But like I said at the top, while I really hope Punk wins, I doubt he will.
Larry Csonka:FICTION. I have to agree totally with AF here, it isn't Punk's time, but it is time for Mr. Kennedy. I have said for a while that the perfect situation is him winning and using it to challenge and get revenge on the Undertaker, and to defeat him for the title, because the Undertaker is killing Big Dave Sunday, if not doves will die. Punk will have his time, but I just feel that Kennedy wins this.
Score:3 for 3
---SWITCH!!!---
4. Shawn Michaels is the greatest WrestleMania performer in WWE history.
Larry Csonka:FACT. If it was a few years ago I may have said Hogan, due to his early influence on the success of WrestleMania, or perhaps I would have said the Undertaker due to the greatness that is the WrestleMania streak. But right now I will have to go with Shawn, but to do justice, let's look at the man at WrestleMania, shall we?
WrestleMania Bio: WrestleMania 5 saw the debut of Shawn Michaels as part of the "Rockers" tag team, battling and losing to the Twin Towers, At WM 6 they battled the Orient Express, but lost via count out. WrestleMania 7 saw the Rockers still a solid unit defeat the much bigger and more powerful team of the Barbarian and Haku. Come WrestleMania 8, the Rockers had broken up and Shawn Michaels was on his road to glory as he defeated "El Matador" Tito Santana. As Shawn Michaels star continued to rise, ha had captured the Intercontinental Title. Come WrestleMania 9, he defended the title against Tatanka, but lost via disqualification. WrestleMania 10 would provide the biggest showcase for Michaels, as in Madison Square Garden he and Razor Ramon would battle in a Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Title. HBK had forfeited the title, and when he came back, declared he wasn't defeated, and had his own belt. Ramon was the current champion and both belts were hung above the ring for the men to battle for the Undisputed IC Title. Ramon won, but many people called them both winners as they set the standard for what a ladder match was to be. WrestleMania 11 approached, and this time HBK would enter the challenger again, but for the World Title. He battled former bodyguard Diesel but fell to the much larger man. Once again, opportunity would call at WrestleMania 12 as HBK had another shot at the World Title, this time against Bret Hart, in a 60-minute Iron Man Match. There was an intense build up with training videos for both men. HBK unleashed the most exciting ring entrance as he zip lined from the top of the arena to the floor to amaze the crowd. They battled for the 60-minutes, but at the end both men were tied 0-0. President Gorilla Monsoon demanded an overtime period and just a few minutes into it HBK lived his childhood dream and became the WWF Champion. This match is considered a classic or boring depending on who you ask. WrestleMania 13 came, and controversy followed. Rumor was HBK was to have a return match with Hart, but came up with a knee injury. He guest commentated the main event match, mocking Hart whenever possible and a little something a lot of people missed, he flashed the "Wolfpac" sign as he entered the ring as he was announced. The next year figured to be HBK's last WrestleMania, # 14. He had a severe back injury going into the match and it was well known that he would leave afterwards. He faced Stone Cold Steve Austin and lost the WWF title. At WrestleMania 15 HBK was there, as an authority figure helping Austin get his shot at the WWF title weeks before. HBK disappeared for the most part, with a cameo here and there and his career was all but written off. But he did return and at WrestleMania 19 faced off against and defeated Chris Jericho. This past year at WrestleMania 20, in Madison Square Garden where at WrestleMania 10 HBK had electrified the crowd, he had another shot at the WWE Gold. In an all time WrestleMania classic, he battled HHH and Chris Benoit. HBK came up short that night as Chris Benoit made HHH tap to win the title. The following year was the dream match that many thought would never happen, the epic match with Kurt Angle. Some thought it would be impossible to live up to the previous year's standards, but HBK did, in loss, and had another ****¾ - **** match, depending on who you ask. When it came to WrestleMania XXII he stepped into the ring with Vince McMahon. While it was no classic like the previous two years, HBK once again stole the show, stepped up and showed that he was Mr. WrestleMania. When WrestleMania time comes around, you knew the "Show Stoppa" would be ready, and will always be remembered for his great WrestleMania efforts.
Arnold Furious:FACT. Hard to argue with what Larry has thrown down there in terms of opinion. Shawn has had several of my favourite Wrestlemania matches including the Wrestlemania 12 Ironman match, the bout with Austin @ WM14 where he competed despite a severely injured back and more recently his match up with Kurt Angle that tore the house down. Hell, last year he even had the old broomstick match with Vince McMahon. It's probably McMahon's best match ever and it's no coincidence that it was with Shawn. He could even further cement that legacy this year as he competes against John Cena in what could well be the match of the night. The only thing that slightly bothers me is that he missed Wrestlemania 13 with a suspect knee injury. But I think he's more than made up for that over the years.
Score:4 for 4
5. Donald Trump's WrestleMania 23 involvement will go down as one of the top three WrestleMania celebrity involvements of all time.
Larry Csonka:FACT. There have been some great celebrity involvements at WrestleMania. Obviously the LT vs. BBB match is the biggest ever. But when I think about this one, yeah, it will be right up there. As unfortunate as it is, the match is secondary to the men's interactions here. Vince and Trump will play things up, Stone Cole will be involved, there will be "Billionaire Bitch Slaps" and in the end, Trump and his magnificent pompadour will stand supreme as Vince gets his head shaved. People will love it, the place will go wild, people are buying the show just for it and they will top 1-million buys easy, with over 700,000 domestic and all in all it will be success and something to remember for years to come, because when push comes to shove, Vince sets the example and does what is best for business.
Score:FACT. Off the top of my head there are only two other celebrity Wrestlemania moments that would compete with Trump's high profile and high involvement and those would be Lawrence Taylor, who main evented at Wrestlemania 11, and Mike Tyson, who enforced the main event at Wrestlemania 14. Taylor actually competed in the main event and while the match is pretty bad for a celebrity it's not horrible. Compare him to Dennis Rodman's performances in WCW and it shows it's not that easy to look good in a wrestling ring. Tyson remains the highest profile guy they've had. Everything he did with Austin & Michaels was newsworthy leading up to Wrestlemania. If Trump's involvement at Wrestlemania is anywhere near as memorable as Tyson's then he makes the top three easily. Who does he have as competition? Liberace? Pamela Anderson? Pete Rose? Yeah, top three I think.
Score:5 for 5
6. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels will go down as one of the twenty greatest WrestleMania matches ever.
Larry Csonka:FACT. I was about to say fiction for this, just because that there is a lot to live up to. In all actuality, I think that the match will be very good and could be the best on the card. Cena is constantly improving, especially over the last year. He knows what he does well, and knows when to do it at the right times. Shawn Michaels is just that, Shawn Michaels. He is awesome and always steps it up, as I have discussed above. Ever since HHH went down with the injury, HBK threw the company on that battered back and in tandem with John Cena have put together a great build and chemistry going into this match. To me if they don't have a great match it will be an extreme disappointment.
Arnold Furious:FICTION. There are so many things that can go wrong in a match that unless you have two absolutely stellar performers in there in a big match (like if it was Angle v Benoit or Shawn v Bret Hart) then you can't go guaranteeing excellence. I think it'll be a good match but how good depends on how it plays out. Whether they both get everything right. There have been a lot of very good matches at Wrestlemania and this would probably need **** to get onto a top 20 list. Just for kicks here's a shot at listing the top 20 matches at Wrestlemania. It's in chronological order rather than order of excellence;
1. Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat (WM3 – IC title match)
2. Hulk Hogan v Ultimate WOYAH~! (WM6 - WWF title match)
3. Ultimate WOYAH~! v Randy Savage (WM7 – retirement match)
4. Roddy Piper v Bret Hart (WM8 – IC title match)
5. Ric Flair v Randy Savage (WM8 – WWF title match)
6. Bret Hart v Owen Hart (WMX – Opening match)
7. Razor Ramon v Shawn Michaels (WMX – IC title/ladder match)
8. Shawn Michaels v Bret Hart (WM12 – WWF title/Ironman match)
9. Bret Hart v Steve Austin (WM13 – I Quit match)
10. Shawn Michaels v Steve Austin (WM14 – WWF title match)
11. Dudleys v Edge/Christian v Hardyz (WM2000 – Tag titles/Ladder match)
12. Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit (WM17)
13. Dudleys v Edge/Christian v Hardyz (WM17 – Tag titles/TLC match)
14. Steve Austin v The Rock (WM17 – WWF title match)
15. Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho (WM19)
16. Kurt Angle v Brock Lesnar (WM19 – WWF title match)
17. Eddie Guerrero v Kurt Angle (WMXX – WWF title match)
18. Chris Benoit v Shawn Michaels v Triple H (WMXX – World title match)
19. Kurt Angle v Shawn Michaels (WM21)
20. Edge v Mick Foley (WM22)
So I think it'll have to be **** at least to crack that list. While I can see them delivering that there's no guarantee it'll happen.
Score:5 for 6
These two finish 5 for 6! Join us next week for more Fact or Fiction!
