411’s Buy or Sell 4.27.07: Morishima as Champ, an ROH Rebuilding Year, Low Ki Returning and More!
Posted by Larry Csonka on 04.27.2007
Week FOUR features ARI and STU debating Nigel to WWE, Low Ki returning to ROH and much more!
Welcome one and all to WEEK FOUR of BUY or SELL. For those that missed the debut column, here is the explanation. BUY or SELL is very similar in nature to Fact or Fiction, as a matter of fact you could consider it Fact or Fiction's little brother. The main difference is that BUY or SELL will focus on the US Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and basically anything that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get some more attention and for you, the reader, to learn even more about the sport of wrestling.
Week Four's Match-Up:
Week four features two ROH enthusiasts. From Friendly Competition Stuart Carapola vs. the Column of Honor's Ari Berenstein!
Takeshi Morishima will finish 2007 as the ROH World Champion.
Stuart Carapola : SELL. I've heard it said that ROH fans have come to expect every title reign to last a year, and I think there's some truth in that, with the caveat being that they feel that if a title changes hands too often, it loses meaning. Morishima is a great talent to have headlining and holding the title while ROH rebuilds its main event scene (as we'll get to in the next question), but the fact is that the guy has to fly here from Japan every time he appears, and that's not an easy trip. There is also the consideration that NOAH will come before ROH for him. I think putting the title on him was a great move in the short term, but I do believe he'll lose the title before the end of the year, although I doubt it will happen before the Japan double shot in July.
Ari Berenstein : SELL. I agree with most of what Stu has said about this subject. I will say that there has been more life breathed into his title run ever since Morishima has committed himself to doing ROH shows in America on a consistent basis. He is very much playing the Samoa Joe 2003 role of unstoppable monster and that sort of storyline can take you through many possible contenders. I do see ultimately though that this title run was a means to an end—to give ROH more international prestige and to boost Morishima's career in preparation for him ascending to the top of the Heavyweight division in NOAH. We are nearing completion of both of those goals and that means by early Fall at the latest we should see a title change.
There are a few different ways the next few months could go with Morishima on top. Morishima could come into the shows in Japan in early July as the defending champion and leave the hero. A title switch could occur soon afterwards, likely to Nigel McGuinness or Bryan Danielson. September sounds like a fair date, considering that month has been a sort of hot zone for ROH World Title changes. The other, very interesting way to go about it would be to take the title off of Morishima before the Japan shows and have Morishima headline as a challenger to the title, in possibly what would be one of the more emotional matches for his career. Even more intriguing could be the possibility that Morishima could regain the title here and have another run as champion. That is an interesting, although less likely possibility, so for now I have to sell on the idea of Morishima as champion at the end of 2007.
1 for 1.
ROH is losing too many headliners too quickly. As a result, 2007 will be a "sub-par" year for the company while they rebuild.
Stuart Carapola : BUY. Just look at what's going on in ROH right now. Joe's gone, Cabana's leaving, and you can't do anything too important with Homicide or Daniels because you never know when they're going to get yanked too. The Kings Of Wrestling were broken up, unnecessarily as it turns out, but the damage was done. Aside from that, you have a storyline where all three original members of Generation Next are forming new groups to build up new talent, and the ROH World Champion is somebody who is already established who they basically had to go out and pick up just so they had someone credible to put the ROH World Title on until they're able to build up Nigel or somebody else to the point where they can carry the title. I think the problem is compounded by the fact that 2006 was such an unbelievably good year for them that I still have trouble believing it. I think that if Gabe Sapolsky plays his cards right, the next couple of years could be like watching the company build from the ground up again like they did in 2002-03, but for now, it's going to be a sub par year just because I don't care that much about Matt Cross and Jason Blade right now.
Ari Berenstein : SELL. Well first of all, is ROH in a rebuilding process? Yes, that much is true about the statement above. Has ROH lost key and significant marquee name value? Yes. It's undeniable that losing Samoa Joe was a big hit in "name value" and that the loss of Colt Cabana will mean that part of the "entertainment" value in ROH will take a hit. However, do these factors add up to a "sub par" year for ROH? No, they don't. "Sub par' is the objectionable qualifier here and one that can be easily disproved. ROH has so done so much to reduce the impact of these losses by having great matches in the ring and moving on to new and different storylines. In that respect, ROH has already delivered at a comparable level to last year.
Already you have several great matches given vaunted "Match of the Year Candidate" status by live reporters and message board reviewers. Samoa Joe vs. Morishima, The Windy City Street fight of Colt Cabana vs. Jimmy Jacobs, Joe vs. Nigel McGuinness, Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer in a Steel Cage, the Dragon Gate multi man tags, Briscoe vs. Briscoe and McGuinness vs. Morishima. These "big name value" matches set up considerably well against last year's matches like Homicide vs. Cabana and the Dragon Gate six man from last year. Not to mention that many fans are already taking to the "newer" (or in some cases re-debuting) talent such as Kevin Steen and El Generico. There seems to be a genuine excitement about the new talent and the new storylines, given proof by the positive buzz surrounding recent shows.
No, perhaps none of the new storylines are as grand in vision or as emotionally captivating as "ROH vs. CZW" from this time last year, but there are certainly some very captivating storylines, like the Japanese invasion and domination to the progression of Jack Evans, Roderick Strong and Austin Aries and the factional warfare amongst all three of them. All told, in terms of both the quality of in ring product and storylines I think 2007 is proving to be right up there with last year's Ring of Honor product.
1 for 2.
Pelle Primeau will become a legitimate mid-card wrestler for Ring of Honor in 2007.
Stuart Carapola : SELL. I like Pelle Primeau a lot. I think he's got a big heart for the business, he's a great worker for being so young in the business, he makes a great underdog story, he certainly seems to be somebody they're interested in giving a push to, and most of all the fans are into him. Plus, I've talked to him a few times and he's a hell of a nice guy. Do I think he'll get a push? Yes. Do I think he'll become a legit midcarder? No. If the question was about Shane Hagadorn, I would have said yes, but Pelle Primeau just won the Top Of The Class Trophy two weeks ago, which is a good thing, but that basically makes him a guy with a solid spot on the lower card. Just ask Shane Hagadorn, Derrick Dempsey, and Davey Andrews. Besides, let's look at some of the "legitimate mid-carders" in ROH right now. BJ Whitmer. Brent Albright. Davey Richards. Delirious. Is Pelle Primeau likely to be anywhere near their level this year, fluke wins notwithstanding? I doubt it.
Ari Berenstein : SELL. Pelle has the plucky and likeable underdog baby face act down just right. He is essentially ROH's version of a combination of ECW stars: "Mikey Whipwreck" and "Little Spike Dudley"—the small guy who takes a licking and keeps on ticking and gets wins when it seems he doesn't have a chance in the world. However, Pelle's biggest wins are upsets against Rave and Tank Toland and this recently earned victory against Shane Hagadorn for the Top of the Class Trophy. Would it be realistic for Primeau to get upset wins over a higher caliber of opponent the likes of Roderick Strong, BJ Whitmer, Christopher Daniels or Homicide? No, it wouldn't, and I have a feeling that no matter how well liked Pelle is, wins against some of those talents would create a huge backlash by the ROH fans. Therefore, I echo Stu's comparison of Pelle to the current crop of mid and upper card wrestlers.
Another factor to consider is that many Indy talents who wrestle for ROH are legitimate mid card to upper card stars in other promotions. Yet I don't notice Pelle being booked elsewhere besides ROH (as is the case with a number of ROH students). If another company, say for instance, PWG, decided to book Pelle, do you think they would feature him in a top attraction match, or would he be in the opener? I'd have to put my money on the latter. Now, Pelle has been involved in some legitimate mid card matches, but mainly they have been multi mans, four ways and six ways. Would he be able to perform in higher profile singles matches or a blood feud? I don't think he has the character depth at this point to carry out the pathos needed for that kind of placement. That said, if Pelle perseveres and comes strong night after night, then he will make it to that level eventually. He has already demonstrated some grace under fire in his matches, being able to adjust and correct when needed. I can admire and appreciate his willingness to keep at it and if there is anywhere he can make it, it would be in ROH where the smaller wrestlers can get that kind of break. Yet in 2007, Pelle still has a ways to go.
2 for 3.
SWITCH~!
There is a noticeable difference in quality between the shows ROH runs on Fridays and the shows they run on Saturdays.
Ari Berenstein : SELL. Stu had a great working theory about how ROH books its shows on an "A", "B" and "C" level depending on what city they run. This was made evident when in 2006 ROH would run "B" cities on Friday and "A" cities on Saturday. In general, the Friday shows were weaker than the Saturday, main event level shows. For the most part the theory worked out well in 2006. This year however, the theory looks to be shot out of the water. Let's look at this year's double shots:
1/26/07 Dedicated vs. 1/2/077 Battle of the Icons: On the surface it looked like the 1/27 show had the hoss line up, but fan response ultimately voiced some frustrations and disappointments. Several matches on Battle of the Icons ended up in unclean finishes and the main event was marred by the now infamous "Invasion of the Grannies." Looking back on DVD, Dedicated had some very good (but not all time great) matches, which will get overlooked given the huge hype of the Fifth Year Festival. I'd say Dedicated end up being the stronger of the two shows.
2/16/07 Fifth Year Festival: NYC vs. 2/17/07 Fifth Year Festival: Philly: ROH ran a major market (NYC) on a Friday and gave a "balls to the walls" card to its fans. Not to mention it was highlighted by the awesome Joe-Morishima encounter. Philadelphia was a great card no doubt, and the Morishima title win was very important. Yet the Friday show largely had the stronger card, the hotter crowd and the better matches.
2/23/07 FYF: Dayton vs. 2/24/07 FYF Chicago: I'd give the clear edge to the Saturday show here as there were an abundance of important matches on the Chicago card. Meanwhile, Whitmer vs. Morishima was lackluster as were some of the other matches on the Dayton show.
3/3/07 FYF: Liverpool vs. 3/4/07 FYF: Finale: A bit of a push given each show had its share of awesome matches and important events on both shows in Liverpool (tag title switch, Joe/McGuinness as compared to Joe's last match and Briscoe vs. Briscoe).
3/30/07 All Star Extravaganza III vs. 3/31/07 Supercard of Honor II: Friday's show had the tag title switch while Saturday's show had the blow off to Whitmer/Jacobs. Both shows had comparable Dragon Gate showcase matches that were well received. Friday's show actually had a number of surprise appearances from ROH alumni such as Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin and Jim Cornette. Again these shows are a virtual push in comparison to between the two shows, although given the reappearances of ROH talent on Friday you could argue that it was the more important of the two shows.
4/13/07 vs. 4/14/07: Going into this weekend, the Long Island show was actually the card with the stronger line up on paper and the event being pushed the most heavily on the board. The Edison card was lackluster until a few last minute changes due to Mark Briscoe's injury created some new and interesting (and better) combinations. The Edison show ended up being better quality, but before the shows actually happened, I would have bet the "it" show to be at was Long Island.
So there you have it—Friday shows this year are matching up exceedingly well when compared to the Saturday shows. ROH seems to have figured out that each show on its weekend double shot needs to look important in order to draw well for either show. The trend looks to continue for the short term, given a quick look at the 4/27 vs. 4/28 line up. Maybe this won't last for the year, but for now this is a sell
Stuart Carapola : BUY. I take Ari's point, and I would agree with him if I were just watching the DVDs. The difference is that I go to every live ROH show I can possibly attend, and even though ROH might have had a few strong Friday performances recently (most notably the Fifth Year Festival), the Friday shows often have terrible live atmospheres. There's a reason they book Long Island and Connecticut on Fridays, because there's dead crowds which lead to less motivation from the workers who already seem to be holding back so they can go all out the next night, and that in turn leads to worse crowds. I do stand by my theory Ari pointed out that ROH has their A markets (such as NYC, Philly, New Jersey, and Chicago) and their B markets (such as Long Island and Connecticut), and it's definitely true. That's not to say that the Friday shows are always bad shows, but I can tell you that there have been several shows I went to in the B markets that were so bland and uneventful that I started to consider going to less shows until the Saturday show in the A market renews my faith. A good example was Destiny in Connecticut last June, which was so boring that I was actually considering cutting out in the middle of the show, and I think if I did I wouldn't have missed anything other than Austin Aries saying "Oh yeah, we're breaking up Generation Next." I see Ari's point about this being a product of 2006, but 2007 is still young enough that I don't know that I'll buy that argument just yet, especially with a big deal like the Fifth Year Festival and WrestleMania weekend basically necessitating strong showings from everyone. Maybe this should come up again in 4-6 months.
2 for 4.
With his physical stature and his increased ROH profile over the last year, Nigel McGuinness will be the next Ring of Honor wrestler to sign a WWE developmental deal.
Ari Berenstein : BUY. Although personally I don't see this happening until late this year if at all in 2007, Nigel is certain to be the next high value speculative pick up from the ROH roster by WWE. The reason Nigel will be next on the WWE shopping list of ROH talent will be because he is one of the few guys remaining on the roster that "fits" their Match.com approved points of qualification—tall and built. In 2006, Chris Hero was given a glancing look, but he was too lanky and not toned enough to their liking (even Punk had to buff up before he was signed). Claudio blew his chance. Brent Albright is great for ROH, but would probably be considered "damaged goods" by WWE scouts since he didn't get over the first time he was called up to the big leagues. Everyone else on the ROH roster is either too small, too short or not stacked enough. Either that or they're committed to TNA or to Japan. There's no one else but Nigel for WWE to pick up and sign to a developmental deal.
Stuart Carapola : SELL. I hate to disagree again, but as much as I like Nigel, I don't know if I see him being a good fit for WWE. Sure, the ultimate goal for everyone is theoretically to eventually get a WWE contract, but Nigel's a guy I can see perfectly happy wrestling the kinds of matches he wants and making his money in ROH and Japan, which is still a great living if you can get it and don't mind the overseas travel. I think it might be a case of WWE being more interested than the worker, and they might have to make him a good deal to get him to consider coming in. I also do think there are other people WWE might want to pick up before Nigel, such as Brent Albright. I don't know if I'd go with the damaged goods theory just because that didn't stop them when it came to James Gibson, and they never even really did anything with him when they brought him back. I don't know exactly what happened with Claudio to cut his WWE run off before it began, but there is obvious interest there since they actually signed him, and unless he screwed up so bad he burned his bridge, I think that if he works his stuff out, he'd wind up there before Nigel, too. Still, Nigel is near the top of the list of "signable" talent, but I'd put BJ Whitmer right up there with him.
2 for 5.
Low Ki will return to ROH in 2007.
Ari Berenstein : SELL. I find it highly enlightening as far as ROH's stance on Low Ki when we see other wrestlers who have left under less than perfect circumstances return to ROH before him. Jay Lethal missed out on the "Unscripted II" show back in February 2006 due to a massive snowstorm and TNA's directive to its talent to return to Florida before their PPV. Soon after, we found out he was done with ROH, but months later he was back again for shows in his home state of New Jersey. Alex Shelley has not always been happy with his use in ROH, but now he has returned and will wrestle at least one match with Chris Sabin as the tandem known as Motor City Machine Guns. Still, there is no sight or sound of an in ring return for Low Ki.
There have been plenty of opportunities for Ki to make his grand re-entrance. Ki could have been a tremendous role-player in the Cornette vs. Homicide issue of mid to late 2006. Upon his return (thanks to Homicide's third wish), he could have taken either side along the way to becoming quite the productive force in that angle. Ki could have come out from backstage to celebrate publicly with his boy Homicide after "The Notorious 187" won the ROH World Title at Final Battle 2006. What an awesome extra to that moment Ki's return would have been, but…it didn't happen. I start to wonder what would it take for him to come back—what scenario would Low Ki fit into right now? I just don't see it. Gabe Sapolsky has made it very clear in early 2006 that Ki wouldn't be back, and so far he has been true to his word. I see nothing to change my feelings that Ki will return now or at any point in 2007.
Stuart Carapola : SELL. I agree with all of Ari's reasoning (finally), but I've got another thing to add, and that's that ROH really doesn't need Low Ki right now. Simply put, they've outgrown him. Low Ki might have been important two years ago when the top of the card basically consisted of Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Austin Aries, and whoever they were working with that month, but they've got enough credible talent right now that they can load a card up with that Low Ki would get lost in the shuffle, and they seem to be at the point where they're trying to get themselves into a new phase of life after the original group of ROH homegrowns. Another thing to consider is the TNA factor, meaning that since Low Ki's under contract to TNA, he wouldn't be usable in anything too important or be given a title. Then, of course, there's Low Ki's attitude backstage, which is said to be horrible. As far as the return of Low Ki goes, I think the ship has sailed.
3 for 6!
The Fourth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.
