Ask 411 Wrestling 06.06.07: Scissors, Senior Officials, Sewer Rats and More!
Posted by Steve Cook on 06.06.2007
Including Ultimate Warrior vs. Phil Collins in a non-title match! Well, I think it was non-title...
It's time to Ask 411 Wrestling! I am your party host Steve Cook, and I hope you all are having a better week than my boy Tony Soprano. Lots of things to get to this week, with 35 e-mails sitting in the inbox for later consumption. I'll assume that's where all the porn is.
-Domingo's obsession with Fall Out Boy knows no bounds
Later on, Placido told me that our first confrontation was a bit of a let down. After thinking about it, maybe we just don't have any chemistry. To be fair, I don't have chemistry with anybody else, so this wouldn't come as much of a surprise. Why do you think I don't have a co-host? Or maybe it was just Csonka. He's still growing into the host role that Ashish perfected over the years...yeah, I blame him and his "wife".
On with the show before Larry fires me...
Comments, Corrections and other "C" words
Great article on Ask 411, very informative and entertaining. I came across the question this week involving cutting open tattoos. As a professional Tattoo Artist, (cheap plug here, www.pisstfishtat2.com) I can say, that sometimes even little scrapes can alter their look, but for big cuts that need stitches, consider the tattoo pretty much ruined for a few years until it heals completely (very little scar tissue present if any), surgical scars on occasion may take 10+ years, and sometimes can't be covered.
Again, great article, keep up the great work. - Krystof
Thanks for the info, and hopefully you won't hold my take on tattoos later in this column against me...
Styles surprised many when he turned down a WWE developmental contract that he was offered.
"I am not by any means cocky, I am honored that they offered me a contract," he said. "Financially I couldn't afford to go up there. My wife was in college and I was the sole provider. It wasn't feasible for me to move to Cincinnati for a developmental deal when I was making nothing. God and family are more important to me. I couldn't do it to my wife." - Richard Humphreys
Women...always holding the man back! Love em and leave em, says I.
Last article someone asked:
"I know the Ref does a 5-count when a Superstar is on the top rope. has anyone ever been DQed for staying up there too long?
I have, it was a match on one of those old WWF Coliseum Home videos. It was Mr.Perfect vs Roddy Piper at a house show for the IC title . The finish was odd but Piper basically didnt allow Perfect off the the turnbuckle. Thus a DQ. It was a sucky finish to a good match. - Rey
Well, that's one way for Piper not to job and Perfect to retain the title.
In response to a question about big pops, the biggest one I remember seeing (and marking out for) was in my early days as a wrestling fan (never got around to watching it 'til I was about 13). It was the build up to the Backlash 2000 PPV after Wrestlemania XVI, and Linda McMahon was announcing a mystery person to be in Rock's corner to even the odds for the forthcoming PPV. Steve Austin had been off with a neck injury(?) and due a return. The fans were hoping and pleading for Linda to make the announcement and when she did the roof came off. In terms of pop length I am not sure it could be the biggest but I remember everyone in the crowd going absolutely spastic. - James
Glad to see someone ask about one of my favorite obscure high-flyers, Blitzkrieg. If anyone doesn't remember him, his match against Juvy at Spring Stampede '99 was incredible with one of the nastiest looking finishes I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyxDNvkC_Hw
Not only has he retired, he also attempted to pass on the mantle of Blitzkrieg to Jack Evans in late 2004 in ProWrestling WAR, giving him his mask and dubbing him Blitzkrieg II. However, I believe Evans only had one match using this gimmick a month later, when he botched a 630, landed on his neck resulting in a match stoppage so he could be taken for medical treatment. This whole saga can be seen in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRWL70FplDo
At 0:54, Blitzkrieg meets Jack, etc.
At 1:55 Jack in the Blitzkrieg II getup
At 2:03 Jack botching the 630 and landing on his neck.
Ain't YouTube great? Just thought I'd give a further update on one of my favorites. - Justin O.
Yeah, the whole Blitzkreig II thing didn't go well for ol' Jack. I don't thing he's used the gimmick again since that match.
Just a guess here but considering that Bruno Sammartino had two world title reigns lasting years - the first nearly eight and the second about three and a half - and that he worked about 300 nights a year back then he probably has the longest winning streak of all time.
The stunned silence at MSG - Bruno has said he thought he'd gone deaf - speaks volumes about what an unexpected event it was.
It would take someone far more dedicated than I to do the research but it sounds to me like "the streak" was about seven months work for Bruno.
Though not hyped as such I wouldn't be surprised if the Undertaker and Hulk Hogan beat Goldberg's mark as well.
I'll completely ignore the larger philosophical question of the relative meaning of winning streaks in a predetermined contest because it would just make my head hurt. - David Lawrence
There is no meaning except in the eyes of the wrestling fan. And the occasional wrestler that takes wins and losses way too seriously.
Just a note that I thought you mind find interesting. I remember reading on the
net back before Edge debuted that they were going to debut Adam Copeland(Edge)
and Sean Morley(Val Venis) as the New Midnight Express that was eventually
filled with Bob Holly and Bart Gunn. Can you imagine what would have happened?
It just goes to show how important a gimmick and timing can really be. - Charlie
I can imagine what would have happened...the angle still wouldn't have gotten over and Edge would be in Japan or the mid-card.
Wes sent in a list of wrestlers who have used one finisher over the last 20 years. This isn't too correct.
The Rock = Rock Bottom
Stone Cold Steve Austin = Stunner
HHH = Pedigree
Shawn Michaels = Sweet Chin Music
Bret Hart = Sharpshooter
Hulk Hogan = Leg Drop
Ric Flair = Figure 4
Mick Foley = Mandible Claw
Austin used the Million Dollar Dream when he first came into WWF.
Hogan used the Axe Bomber in Japan.
Michaels used the Teardrop suplex when he first turned heel.
Foley started using the Mandible Claw for the Mankind character - he'd been around long before that. - Brian
In rebuttal to what Wes said about the big stars using only 1 finisher, he mentioned the Rock's one and only big finisher was the Rock Bottom. That may have been his most effective finisher, but calling that his one and only finisher couldn't be farther from the truth when you consider the People's Elbow and even the sharpshooter that he was used.
Also, I wanted to comment on longest undefeated streaks. Wouldn't Andre the Giant hold the record for longest undefeated streak with it lasting over a decade or was that streak greatly exaggerated? - Kristian Hooker
Rock did finish off a lot of matches with the People's Elbow, probably more than he did with the Rock Bottom.
The shawn michaels owen hart match on raw when shawn callapsed in the ring was because owen hart gave him an ensigere kick to the back of the head. when he got beat up at a club he was the IC champ and was forsed to drop the belt to someone else. this is what shawn wrote in his book - themidnightpunk
Yes, that was the storyline. He didn't actually have the post-concussion syndrome though, that was a work.
As far as Edge supposedly being a Raven rip-off. My impression has always been he was meant to be at least a little like Sting... dark, brooding, etc. Just a thought. - BC
I think switching One Man Gang to Akeem was smart. He had no character as OMG (I had seen him in Florida & Mid Atlantic territories prior to his WWF stint) so at least Akeem had some entertainment value.
It wasn't like he was going to get over on his wrestling skill or natural charisma. Akeem gave the former OMG a hook to go with his biggest asset (no pun intended): his size.
Now why they gave the highly skilled, charasmatic Terry Taylor a "Red Rooster" makeover, that I'll never know.
Might be an interesting question: which mid 80s WWF makeovers worked great and which ones were smoking crack. And who didn't get one (a short list all by itself) that needed one (a very short list). - Chris Pineo
That could be a good question. Maybe somebody will ask it someday.
I think Scott is thinking of Test, not Edge. Test debuted as a supposed member of "Motley Crue's security" when they did a concert on an episode of Raw, and he roughed up a "fan" who tried to rush the stage. The next week, Test started hanging out with DX backstage (they may have even given him his name) and came out to the ring with them. He did this for a few more weeks and then turned on them and joined The Corporation, who DX was feuding with at the time. I don't think he was ever an "official" DX member, though. - Rob Dow
You're dead on.
I saw an article a few years ago saying that Mae Young in her heyday used to wrestle 2 out of 3 fall, 90 minute matches. Unfortunately I can't find the article, but maybe someone on the site can confirm this. - Bill
Was anybody alive back then?
No he (John Cena) isn't a submission wrestler, but his power is what helps sell it, as long as he makes it look like he is pulling the head, and not hugging the ears with his forearms. Think about it, a guy that big traps your leg and wrenches your head back with his unlimited strength, anyone is going to tap or they are going to lose there head. BUT he just doesn't make the wrenching very believable, that is the only problem I have with it, because a guy that big pulling on your head is going to make you tap out very fast, or be paralyzed from the neck down. - Chris Jacobs
The wrenching could look better, yeah. But it seems to work for a lot of the viewing audience, so what can ya do? It does make sense from a kayfabe perspective that Cena's big and could tear your head off if he wanted to.
Questions!
JLAJRC has a few of them for us...
Two frequent commentators on old school cards on WWE 24/7 are named Ron Tronguard and Red Lyons. Who are they? I never even heard of them before getting this channel.
Rod Trongard was a longtime AWA announcer that was hired when the WWF was hiring everybody that ever worked for Verne Gagne. He spent most of his broadcasting career in Minnesota, calling the action for various sports teams including the Minneapolis Lakers. If anybody ever asks you who was the Lakers play by play announcer before Chick Hearn, Rod Trongard is the answer. He didn't last long in the WWF and returned to Minnesota after retiring from wrestling announcing. He died from liver cancer in 2005.
Red Lyons got his start north of the border...after a long wrestling career spent mostly in the tag team divison he was often seen on Maple Leaf Wrestling as an interviewer and announcer. I don't remember him working for the WWF, but that could have happened after WWF bought out Frank & Jack Tunney, who ran Maple Leaf Wrestling out of the Toronto area.
Other than Mr. Perfect's Perfectplex, is there any other wrestler who's wrestling finisher was strictly a pinning combination? We got plenty of power move/pinning combos (frog splashes, banzai drops, etc.) but Mr. Perfect is the only one I remember using a strictly pinning finisher.
Super Delfin has won a number of matches with the Delfin Clutch, which according to Wikipedia "has an attacking wrestler crossing the arms of the opponent across their own chest while they're laying on their back on the mat. The attacking wrestler then kneels down on one knee on the opponents arms, pinning the opponents shoulders down to the mat. The attacking wrestler then grabs the opponents legs, crosses them, and places them under one of their armpits, bending the opponent to a pinning predicament." Penguin tells me that Candice Michelle has been ending her matches with a "weird leg roll thing" that's like a pin. Genki Horiguchi of Dragon Gate uses a backslide as one of his finishing moves. I think it happens more with Japanese wrestlers and Divas than other wrestlers.
1.) What was the purpose of the old 11:00 pm wrestling curfew that MSG used to have? Keep drunks off the street perhaps?
The 11:00 curfew was mandated by the New York State Athletic Commission and was mostly in place to keep shows from running too far into the night. If a show ran past 11, the promoter would be fined. It served several different purposes, including getting the kids home before midnight, keeping people off the streets of NYC after midnight, and so on. It was for the best, because you probably didn't want to be in downtown New York after midnight anyway.
2.) It seems that most matches that are labeled classic or five-star usually take place from the late-80s onward? Are there any matches (lets say pre-1987) that are labeled classic or five-star? Only two come to my mind, the Roddy Piper/Greg Valentine Starcade Dog Collar match, and the Magnum TA/Tully Blnchard Steel Cage/I Quit match.
Of course there were lots of classic wrestling matches back in the day, but you won't see many of them rated with five snowflakes for one simple reason...Dave Meltzer wasn't around back then. Here's a list of matches he rated 5 snowflakes that took place before 1987:
04/23/83 Tiger Mask I vs. The Dynamite Kid for the NWA Junior Heavyweight Title
12/05/84 Kazuo Yamazaki vs. Nobuhiko Takada
12/08/84 Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Dory Funk & Terry Funk
03/09/85 Tiger Mask II vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi
4/19/86 Sheepherders vs. Fantastics (Bobby Fulton/Tommy Rogers)
But that's just what Da Meltz says. You can't always go by what Meltzer and other Internet guys say. Just trust me when I tell you that there were plenty of great wrestling matches happening in the 1980s, 70s, 60s, and maybe even 50s. The shame is that footage of most of them just doesn't exist and makes it harder for us Internet experts to rate them.
Hey man, I used to write for the site, awhile back and I still read it daily. I was shooting the breeze with my friend Rob Welcher (who if you use my question on the site you should shout out, since he's a HARDCORE TNA FAN, been to damn near every outside Orlando event they've had, including just getting back from Sacrifice in FL) anyhow, we were talking about TNA ending their ties with NWA and announcing (tonight) on Impact the new titles. Since Kurt Angle, Chris Sabin and the Dudley's were all Champions going into Sacrifice and now having their respective titles still would that make Kurt Angle a 8 time World Heavyweight Champion (if you include all his runs), Sabin a 5 time X Division Champion and the Dudley's 21 (if you include their HUSTLE Super Tag Team Titles) time Tag Team Champions?
I didn't know if the Lineage would change along with the re-naming? - Shawn Meredith
I would say Kurt's NWA title reign counts even though the NWA would tell you otherwise. But who cares what they say? Chris Sabin started his 4th X title reign in January, and I would say that is still going on despite the changing of initials. Same goes for Team 3D, so their total would be at 20 including the Hustle titles. I dunno, I tend to go for whatever makes things less confusing when it comes to counting up title reigns, if you wanted to give them an extra one you could, but I don't see the point other than to inflate numbers.
Julian Smith had three questions, but we discussed the Kanenites angle in this column at least once before.
1. Bringing up the Nation of Domination again, along with D-Lo, The Rock and Farooq there were two other lesser-knowns in the NOD. One was Wolfie-D (?) and there was some other guy. Can you give me more info on those two? Where did they come from and how did they end up in the WWF(e) and in the NOD.
Ah yes, Wolfie D. & Jamie "JC Ice" Dundee. Better known as PG-13, they were a constant in the USWA tag team scene for most of the 1990s. Dundee was the son of Bill Dundee, a longtime wrestler in the Mid-South area. Wolfie D went on to some fame later on as Slash of the Disciples of the New Church in TNA. At this point in time, they'd been teaming up in the USWA for awhile as PG-13, a couple of punk kids that didn't have any respect for anybody. Why they were included in the NOD...I'm not all that sure why other than they needed some guys to stand around and it spread the NOD gimmick to the USWA. They didn't do all that much except talk a couple of times and get yelled at by Farooq from what I remember. But, they did have a connection through the Jerrys (Lawler & Jarrett), so it wasn't too surprising that they got some kind of a shot there.
3. What is MVP's history? Where did he come from and how did he end up in the WWE?
After serving nine years in prison for armed robbery and kidnapping, Alvin Burke Jr. entered the world of professional wrestling in 1998, wrestling under the name of Antonio Banks. He wrestled in several Florida (the state he hails from) independent promotions, including Full Impact Pro and some jobbing duty in TNA. He signed a developmental deal with WWE in 2005, and eventually worked his way through Deep South Wrestling, where he developed the MVP character that he currently uses on Smackdown.
Last Week in this column somebody asked about the four horsemen. You were talking about the Hof and you said Ole - No fucking way. Why is there no way. Is there some kind of heat on ole. Or do people just not like him. - Honestabe1712
Ole was made an offer to appear on the Four Horsemen DVD, and he turned it down for the following reason according to an interview he did on a recent wrestling radio show:
"He said that in 1984, Vince told him he'd never work for the company again, and so he didn't want Vince to have to go back on his word and be a liar."
It doesn't make much sense to me, but Ole seems content to remain outside the WWE universe and I think he'll remain there. Now, that could change, but I think we'll see Ole Anderson inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame the same year that Bruno Sammartino is.
(That means it ain't gonna happen)
Scott has several questions...
I was recently watching Vengeance 2003 on WWE 24/7 and something occurred in the WWE Tag title match between Rey Mysterio/Billy Kidman and The World's Greatest Tag Team. I noticed halfway through the match that Shelton successfully hit a powerbomb on Billy Kidman and then shortly after went for it again and of course Kidman countered into his sitdown facecrusher. I found it funny because a few weeks ago someone said only a handful of people have successfully hit a powerbomb on Kidman, one of them being Dean Malenko and when he went to do it again Kidman countered. Curious did Kidman just say screw it and start taking powerbombs as his career furthered?
Shelton got cocky like Malenko did. You might hit Kidman with a powerbomb once, but how often does lightning strike the same place twice? The simple answer is that Kidman liked to do that sitdown facebuster thingy, I don't think he really had a fear of powerbombs or anything like that.
I also had a question regarding Charlie Haas. I know that "RUSS" written on his wrists is to honor the memory of his brother who passed away and I remember hearing shortly before his passing a few years back that Charlie and Russ were both about to be called up to the WWE. Now can't remember if this part is true or not but I thought they were supposed to be Team Angle and if thats true what was going to happen with Shelton? Were all 3 supposed to be a part of Team Angle or was something else lined up for Benjamin that was scrapped?
Team Angle made their debut on the December 26, 2002 edition of Smackdown, which was a little more than a year after the death of Russ Haas. Russ & Charlie would have been called up to the WWE as a tag team had Russ not died of a heart attack on December 15, 2001. Charlie continued his career as a singles wrestler in OVW under the name R.C. Haas until he was called up to be part of Team Angle alongside Shelton Benjamin. That concept was thought up after Russ's death, as far as what could have happened if the Haas Brothers had made it to WWE and Shelton was still in OVW, that seems more like a job for Ron Gamble to figure out than myself.
Also had one more question regarding Superstars not wanting to do "The Job" to up and comers. A few being Hogan and Bret, Hogan and Mr. Perfect, Stone Cold and Jarret, my question is the reasoning behind there decisions and also if you knew of any more headliners who refused to put someone over?
Hogan didn't think Bret or Curt Hennig could draw money with him, so he didn't want to waste his time by putting them over. In the case of Austin & Jarrett, Stone Cold didn't like Jarrett for a couple of reasons...early in their careers they worked together in Memphis for Jeff's dad Jerry, and Austin didn't like the size of his paychecks and Jeff was apparently a dick to him. Later on, Jarrett claimed in a promo on Raw that "Austin 3:16" was blasphemous, which really set Austin off. Austin's refusal to work with Jarrett led to Jarrett leaving the WWF in October 1999 for WCW, where he could work at a main event level. Austin also didn't want to work with Owen Hart due to Owen breaking his neck with a botched piledriver at Summerslam 1997. There have been headliners that have refused to put other guys over ever since the beginning of professional wrestling...even Lou Thesz got in on the act by never putting Buddy Rogers over. Ric Flair didn't want to give the NWA title to Lex Luger in the late 1980s because he didn't think Luger was championship material. There's a couple examples right there.
Could you give me details on the famous sid/Arn Anderson sisscors incedient that?Is it true that Sid didnt get fired because of it but he left after?
Also quickly how his Sid keeping after that leg injury from Sin 2001?Is he reitred or what? - Conor O'Boyle
WCW was touring the United Kingdom during late October 1993...on the 28th, Sid & Arn got into an argument in a hotel lobby. Things calmed down as WCW wrestlers helped break things up, but later that night Sid came to Arn's hotel room to continue the discussion. With scissors. Arn received 20 stab wounds to the chest & stomach while Sid got various cuts on his body. Both men were taken to the hospital and deported afterwards. Sid got the lion's share of the blame for the incident and was fired for it while Arn was suspended. The two men have mended fences and are on good terms today.
After his leg injury, Sid stayed out of action for three years before returning in June 2004 as Pierre Ouelette's mystery tag team partner on an Internet Wrestling Syndicate show in Montreal. His next recorded wrestling appearance was almost 3 years later, wrestling Doug Gilbert on back to back nights for two Tennessee independent promotions.
What is with the storyline (or point) behind the Dudley's attacking wrestlers on Joel Gertner hit list at Hardcore Heaven '99? First Nova, then Rod Price, and finally Jack Victory. I live in California and at the time regular ECW TV was not available. - Galen Tom
I have no earthly idea, but Hardcore Heaven 1999 was the show where Gertner got hit in the face with a fireball by Balls Mahoney. Maybe the Dudleys were trying to help Gertner out by taking people on his hit list out of commission. An even better question is what any of those guys is doing on anybody's hit list.
at what point did the wwe decide to start giving the title strap to someone primarily to get them over? I remember Orton, Lesnar, Cena (of course) hell even maybe the undertaker, all winning the title long before they actually "deserved" it. (Angle is an exception, he kicked some ass in his first year) - Captain Greatness
Wrestling companies have been doing this ever since professional wrestling began. The chief purpose of having a title is to get the person with the title over. It seems different nowadays because everybody is a national star now before they're really ready to be, unlike the old days where Ric Flair would work in the Mid-Atlantic area for years honing his craft before Harley Race came along and dropped the NWA title to him. Cena didn't get years out of the limelight to get ready, he got a year or two in Louisville before hopping up to the big time. If you think somebody is ready to hold the championship, you give it to them. And this isn't even a recent phenomenon in the WWF...Hulk Hogan won the WWF title a month after re-entering the company in 1984. Pat Patterson practically won the Intercontinental title upon entering the promotion. It was on them to prove that they deserved their spots.
Of course, you can argue that guys like Orton showed that they didn't deserve the slot. But other than Orton, I could argue that each of the guys you listed deserved to be champion. People forget how dominant Brock was early on, and Cena was the most over babyface on Smackdown when he won the WWE title. Undertaker was built up as virtually indestructible during his rookie year in the WWF, and it wasn't seen as a shocker when he beat Hogan. Well, not by 7 year old Steve Cook anyway. The ones I really don't like are when they give the tag team titles to the newest tag team that hasn't done anything yet...but nobody really cares about the tag team titles anyway. I like to see established guys win the titles more than I like to see guys that are either new or don't seem worthy...but I also realize that the title can help those guys a lot more than the guys that are already over. Roddy Piper didn't hold any titles in the WWF until 1992 because he didn't need a belt to get over and they finally gave him one then because they realized "holy crap, how come this guy hasn't had a title at some point?" I guess it all depends on how you look at it.
Don't read too much into this question, mmmkay? Pat Patterson. Gay, right? How many other wrestlers are? I've heard rumor about Lombardi. And I swear that I've heard that Paul London is gay, but never any others....well, Miz. Any ideas? And how well received are these wrestlers backstage? - Andrew
Pat Patterson is gay, yes. There have been rumors about Steve "Brooklyn Brawler" Lombardi, but I've never heard anything about either Paul London or Miz. As for openly gay wrestlers, there's Chris Kanyon, and longtime wrestling promoter Jim Barnett had an affair with Rock Hudson. I probably shouldn't speculate any further. As far as how homosexuals are received backstage, Lance Storm said in response to a similar question that it isn't a big deal and they're treated just like everybody else. There are probably exceptions to that rule, but there's no evidence that homosexuals have been held back from acheiving great feats in professional wrestling. Of course, none of them are openly gay, so it'd be interesting to see if that would change things.
Any idea who the senior referee in ECW is now? It used to be Mickey Henson (formerly Mickey James), but i think he's been moved back to SD. Is it Scott Armstrong now? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but when nick patrick was moved to SD, he got an article on WWE.com that said he was now the senior ref on SD...and while we're at it, who is the senior ref on raw? charles robinson? wait, no, he's on SD. I think. The WWE ref page is outdated - http://www.wwe.com/superstars/wwereferees/
oh well, good luck with that one. i have faith in you. - Manu Bumb
The senior referee on ECW is Scott Armstrong. The senior referee on Raw is Mike Chioda, who has been serving as a referee with WWF/E since 1991. I don't think Smackdown currently has a senior official because apparently Nick Patrick hasn't been on the show since February. Charles Robinson refereed the World Title match at WrestleMania 23, so I think he could be considered as the senior official at least unofficially. Mickie Henson is currently on Smackdown.
Evan Q. has two questions...
1) Okay so we've all heard about how Ted Dibiase was
Promised the WWF(E) title at 'Mania IV and how "The
Natural" Butch Reed was next in line to win the IC
title but never did. A friend of mine mentioned to me
that the late, great (And very underrated, in my
opinion) Bad News Brown was supposed to win the WWF(E)
title on a Saturday Night's Main Event from Hogan.
So my question is this:
Do you (or does anyone else) know of stories/
situations (both speculative and factual) where WWF(E)
wrestlers (past and present) were promised titles but
for one reason or another did not receive them? For
example, was Roddy or Andre ever supposed to win (an
hold for awhile) the WWF title or seriously considered
to? Was Rick Martel or George "The Animal" Steele (ha
ha) supposed to be an IC Champ or something?
One non-WWE example that I know of ties in with the Sid question from earlier...Sid was scheduled to win the WCW title from Vader at Starrcade 1993 until the scissors incident led to his firing. I don't think Roddy, Andre, Rick or George missed out on title reigns they were supposed to get. Randy Savage was supposed to beat Honky Tonk Man for the IC title until HTM threatened to leave for the NWA. Of course, this led to Savage getting the WWF title instead, so it worked out well for everybody. Except Dibase. Barry Windham mentions in the 4 Horsemen DVD that he was supposed to get the NWA title from Flair when he left the company, but plans were changed. There's the Lex Luger incident involving a rumored run with the WWF title after WrestleMania X that is either true or false depending on who you believe.
2) And speaking of Bad News Brown (Allen), what the
hell was the deal with his "Harlem Sewer Rats"?!? Who
thought of that angle and for God's sake -- WHY? - I
was like 13 when that feud with Jake Roberts took
place (i.e. Rats vs. Snakes or some shit) and
remember Bad News sticking some like, some meat on a
bone into some kinda cardboard box (apparently
containing said rats) and shaking it around. The
following week it was Bad News (a former Olympian
apparently?) playing with some puppets that were
supposed to be these like, vicious rats.
Well, it worked pretty well when Jake's snake took on Ricky Steamboat's dragon. That doesn't sound right. Penguin offers up the suggestion that it was one of Vince's ideas that probably sounded a lot funnier on paper and didn't quite get over. There were plenty of successful animal gimmicks in the WWF at that time and they thought it would be neat for Bad News to have some rats. Maybe if they used actual rats it would have worked.
I always wondered who the story about who invented the sharpshooter/scorpion death lock. Was it Bret or Sting's invention? Did the move exist before both guys started using it.
side note, I always regarded Sting vrs Bret Hart as one of WCW's most under rated matches. WCW really dropped the bal when they didn't take off on that feud. Bret had a series of back to back ppv matches with wolf pac macho man, ric flair, and sting. I wish they were on his dvd. - NYGroover82
The move was popularized by Japanese wrestler Riki Choshu, who called it the Sasori-gatame (Scorpion hold in Japanese). Sting picked it up while on a tour of Japan, while Bret Hart learned it from Konnan. I always liked the story that Owen invented it and Bret stole it from him, but that's not the case.
I recently read that Batista got a new leg Tattoo, I was wondering what do you
think WWE's policy is on Tattoo's? Do they have to approve them? Because some
guys would ruin thier characters if they did get Tattoos. Like if Kane suddenly
got a Tiger with flowers on his shoulder, he wouldn't be taken as serious. (ala
Big Show). - Ant-Lox
I'm told that WWE management has to approve any new tattoos a wrestler on their roster gets. Personally, I wish they'd approve less of them because with all due respect to my tattoo artist reader, most of them look absolutely ridiculous. Some of them are useful, like the Rock's Brahma Bull tattoo and Goldberg's tattoo that WCW used to sell merchandise, but there's a lot of them that just aren't necessary or are just plain ugly. Randy Orton's tribal tattoos comes to mind, as does Mr. Kennedy's...whatever the hell that's supposed to be on his back. Of course, indy wrestlers are even worse and it seems like everybody that's ever been on The Ultimate Fighter has a really stupid looking tattoo. Call me old fashioned, but tattoos just aren't my thing.
I've been reading your column and (and 411 wrestling as a whole) for a
few months now, and I've been really impressed with the emphasis that's
been placed on the history of wrestling. Contrary to what non-fans and
critics of the sport may suggest, American wrestling truly carries its
own interesting, and at times important, and legitmate historicty.
From the NWA's lineage, to the creations of the AWA, WWF, WCW, and on
and on and on, there's a lot to be learned, and a lot from which I only
have small bits of information. It's endlessly fascinating to see a
faux-sport grow from carnival roots to diehard territory battles, to
the consolidation of talent and territory conducted by McMahon, to the
major world presence we see today.
I'm a history major at my university (in modern US history, but with
some emphasis on world, Religious, and Biblical history), and I'm
usually curious to learn the ins and outs of what's happened over the
course of time.
Long story short (or is it already long at this point) -- my question
for you, is can you or anyone at 411wrestling suggest any texts/books
that specifically discuss (and hopefully with some sort of legitmacy
and relative lack of bias) wrestling's long history? I'm sure Flair,
Foley, Bischoff and others covered aspects in their books, but are
there any (good) books dedicated to the history of the sport? If not,
which bios and auto-bios carry the greatest information.
You all seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject (though,
unfortuately and at times frustratingly without much notation, ciation,
or reference to where your information and has come from), so i assume
many of you have come across something (unless it's just been a life
thing, with info. gathered from donzens and hundreds of places).
Perhaps you could bounce this question around other writers at 411 who
could provide places they've attained information. - Brent
A book I read just recently was entitled "Ringside: A History of Professional Wrestling in America". Written by Scott M. Beekman, it fills in a lot of the blanks when it comes to the early history of pro wrestling. It's kinda lax in the later parts, but most of us already know lots about how Vince came to power.
A good book for Vince's era is "Sex, Lies & Headlocks: The Real Story of Vince McMahon and the World Wrestling Federation" by Shaun Assael & Mike Mooneyham. It might be a little negative, but that might be why I like it. "The Death of WCW" by RD Reynolds & Bryan Alverez is also a must-read.
Another book I recommend for historical purposes is "The Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame: The Tag Teams" by Greg Oliver & Steven Johnson. Lots of great information about tag teams in this one. As far as biographies go, I give my highest recommendations to Foley's efforts, along with Ric Flair & Dynamite Kid. Eric Bischoff has an interesting book as well.
Eddie has 4 questions...
1. Does the Great Muta have a Best of... DVD or VHS out ? Just got done watching some of his stuff on youtube and thought it would great to own some of these matches.
There are plenty of Muta compliations out there through various wrestling video companies...411's Ryan Mancuso got a Muta Anthology from the good folks at Puroseu Central and reviewed it several months ago. I would recommend that one if you like what you read in his reviews.
2. Why doesn't WWECW incorporate another title in the mix? I know the tag division all over the WWE is terible, but they could atleast put the tv title on C.M. Punk or Elijah Burke. Give their feud some more meaning. Is it they don't have the time or that Vince wants to desecrate the name of ECW even more?
ECW only has an hour of television each week, and they don't have enough talent to make a second title mean anything. An ECW TV title would mean about as much as the Intercontinental & U.S. titles...not a damn thing.
3. Why did TNA bring in Vince Russo? Didn't they learn from WCW how terrible his product can be? A reverse battle royal?! The Bashams vs. VKM?!
At one time, Vince Russo was the head writer for the premiere wrestling company in the world, and it was during a very profitable time for that company, the WWF. Say what you will about his storylines back then, or his storylines in WCW or TNA for that matter, but Vince Russo has been successful in the past. He's also been a failure, but TNA is willing to take a chance on him and hope that he can bring interest in their product to a new level. The problem for TNA is that the hardcore fans hate Vince Russo and will crap on anything that happens when he's involved in creative before it even happens. And it doesn't help that a lot of his ideas aren't very good.
4. Going back to Muta, a dream match of mine would be Muta vs. Kobashii. Has this ever happened, and if it hasn't, will there ever be a chance since both tour in the states now?
Kobashi has been out of action since June 2006 due to his ongoing recovery from kidney cancer. This match could happen down the road, but it won't be anytime soon and it won't be in the U.S. because neither man comes over here very often. I would have to imagine that this match happened at some point, but I can't find an instance where it did. It doesn't help that Muta spent most of his career in New Japan and by the time he took over All Japan, Kobashi was part of Pro Wrestling NOAH after spending most of his career in All Japan. It's possible they've never worked in the same promotion long enough to have a match. But I'm sure some puro fan will prove me wrong.
Is Great Khali really that inarticulate? What is the general feeling about him backstage? And also, do you think he knows that just about everybody thinks he has no talent? - James
Khali does not know English all that well, which is why he now has an official interpreter that speaks English, Punjab & Hindi. Dave Kapoor is his name. I haven't seen too much "backstage news" about Khali, but he seems like a pretty nice guy. Apparently his goal in life is to support his family and aid his entire village in India. I figure it'd be tough to hate on a guy like that. Most wrestlers are aware of the criticism they receive from fans, and I'd think Khali would be no different...but it doesn't seem to bother him all that much.
Patrick has three questions...
1. Why is it that Benoit comes out for interviews in his tights? It just looks weird since he doesn't need the outfit to sell his persona (eg Abyss or Undertaker). Most wrestlers don't wear their ring tights for an interview segment.
Chris Benoit's character has always been a professional wrestler first and everything else second. Some guys are content to go out there in street clothes and blabber on about whatever's on their mind, but Benoit's always ready for a fight, and he dresses for one. He's all bite and very little bark.
2. When wrestlers come out in suits but wind up getting the suit torn during a fight, does Vince cover the cost of the suit to the wrestler? Or is he just assed out of a suit now? Or maybe just cheap suits?
I think in most instances the wrestler buys their own clothes, which would include suits that end up being town. They have to rely on the angle drawing money in order to buy a new one. That's why if you're smart you buy a cheap suit, or you'll end up like Ric Flair and still need to wrestle at age 74 to keep up your lifestyle.
3. According to Wiki, Mark Henry got signed in 96. Did he sign a new contract, and if so, why? He gets hurt every 3 months or hurts someone.
Mark Henry plays his role of a big black dude who looks like he could legitimately fuck somebody up ok. There's always a place for somebody like that in wrestling, and you're not going to find many people out there that look like Mark Henry. That doesn't mean he's going to have good wrestling matches or cut fantastic promos, but he's useful for bringing in the marks that go "damn, that guy's big!"
Now, you could argue that they paid the man way too much in his first contract, and I agree with that whole-heartedly. That being said, I think he's gained respect with WWE management for working hard to heal injuries over and over again, and his willingness to go along with anything they want him to do (Mae Young, anyone?).
Jones has two questions...
what kind of liquid did Steamboat use to breathe fire?
Someone told me it was liquor, but I tried it with 80
proof Jack Daniels and nothing happened...
First of all, don't be trying to breathe fire at home. Bad idea. Anyway, Howstuffworks.com has a pretty cool article showing how fire breathing works, and I assume this is how Steamboat did it back in the day. I won't give away too much, but apparently the liquid involved is fuel. Yeah...it doesn't sound too safe to me either, but that's apparently how you do it. Again, don't try this at home. Especially if you've been drinking some Jack.
and speaking of alcohol, I noticed that back in his
prime, whenever Stone Cold chugged a beer in the
ring...it was always Miller Lite. Did the WWE have to
pay the Miller Brewery for product placement? Looking
back do you think a promotion where a beer is the
"official beer of Steve austin" would have been good
marketing, in your opinion or not? - Jones
I'm not sure. I do know that WWE & Miller went into business together at some point, because we saw the catfight girls at WrestleMania XIX & Triple H appeared on those Man Law commercials last year. It wouldn't surprise me if Miller had a deal with WWE where Austin would drink their beer. And hell yeah, that would have been good marketing. Putting Stone Cold in some beer commercials would have been perfect, but for some reason that never happened. Maybe he didn't want to get tied down to just one beer forever. I fear committment when it comes to beer, so I get where he's coming from.
I just finished watching Royal Rumble 1993 and started to remember the Max Moon character when he made his entrance in the Rumble. But I remember there being another character back in '93 by the name of "The Comic (could have been "Comet") Kid" which was pretty much the exact same character as Max Moon. I think the only difference was that Max Moon had "thrusters" that helped him get somewhat "launched" up the ring steps and into the ring. I read somewhere that Konnan was the guy who played Max Moon...but who and what was this "Comet/Comic Kid" character I'm thinking of? Did he even exist or am I just bullshitting myself thinking I saw two different characters altogether?
Your input would really help me regain my sanity! - Chris Domenicucci
The Comet Kid was the original name of the character that eventually became known as Max Moon. I believe Konnan debuted under the Comet/Moon gimmick in September 1992, he was eventually replaced by Paul Diamond due to a disagreement with management. There are differing accounts of how long Konnan played the role...some say he did it for several months and others say that he never actually played the role, he just came up with it and was supposed to play the role until he got fired. Either way, Diamond ended up as Max Moon because he fit into the specially designed costume that set WWF back 1,000 smackers. So you can rest easy now...Comet Kid & Max Moon were the same character and the same person (until Diamond took over). The Comet Kid name only lasted a couple of weeks, as Max Moon received his name on the 10/10 edition of WWF Superstars after debuting as Comet Kid on the 9/27 edition. Diamond's contract expired in February 1993 and Max Moon went back to whatever planet he came from.
Okay I found this video with the Ultimate Warrior and Phil Collins. What
the crap is the story behind this? - Bryce
It originally aired on a Phil Collins prime time television special. You may ask why Phil Collins had a prime time TV special, and I would answer with "Because he's Phil Collins, duh!". Apparently this special was recently released on DVD...I think it's this one. Oh, and you can view the video here. I'm not quite sure when this special took place, but 1990 seems like a safe guess since Warrior is the champion.
Well, that's all for this week. Don't forget to send your stuff to scook411@hotmail.com...until next time, keep your stick on the ice.
