411’s Buy or Sell 06.09.07: The Ted Petty Invitational, the Briscoe Brothers, the Pure Title and More!
Posted by Samuel Berman on 06.09.2007
It’s ROH vs. Mid-South as the 411 Staff discusses the U.S. Independent scene with Ari Berenstein battling John Gregory!
Welcome everyone to WEEK TEN of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.
Week Ten's Match-Up:
Columnist of Honor Ari Berenstein vs. the man behind Death By Midwest John Gregory!
Jay & Mark Briscoe are currently the best tag team in all of wrestling.
Ari Berenstein : BUY . Well, it's interesting that the question is "best tag team" and not necessarily "best current tag team champions". In that latter category, The Briscoes certainly have Team 3-D, as well as the teams of Cade and Murdoch and Deuce and Domino beat. I mean, athleticism, check. Exciting moves, check. Exciting matches, check. Wacky charisma, check and check. The Briscoes MAN UP and outrank all of these teams. In addition, The Briscoes are double champions, possessing both the ROH and the FIP tag team belts and they are tearing it up in both companies against different competition. While they are out gunning El Generico and Kevin Steen in ROH, they are out toughing Madman Pondo and the Necro Butcher down in FIP.
Now, best tag team overall in all of wrestling? Let's look at some possible contenders: The Kings of Wrestling combination of Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli has been off kilter ever since the beginning of the year. They haven't been on the same page since they lost their ROH / CZW / Chikara tag titles. The Murder City Machine Guns of Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin have done well together in the indies but their potential in TNA where both of them now wrestle a majority of the time has not been exploited…just yet. You can go down the list and see that some formerly banner teams are not doing so well in 2007. Arrogance in PWG did not do well in the DDT4 Tournament. The No Remorse Corps are dominating in the ring but not accomplishing much else. The only other major team that can compare with The Briscoes are their current arch rivals in ROH, El Generico and Kevin Steen. However, Steen and Generico are not quite yet the ROH World Tag Team Champions and until they do win those belts, Jay & Mark get the nod.
John Gregory : BUY . For all the same reasons that Ari stated. The Briscoes have yet to deliver anything below an excellent match this entire year, and they are doing it on two different fronts: outwrestling opponents in ROH, while outbrawling Pondo and Necro in FIP. A year ago, the two best teams were Aires and Strong and the Kings of Wrestling. Now both are broken up, leaving the Briscoes as the top of the heap while teams like Steen/Generico, Strong/Richards, the Iron Saints, Team FIST, and others stand below them, with potential, but not at the summit yet.
1 for 1.
Ring of Honor should bring back the Pure Title.
Ari Berenstein : SELL . Four months ago, I would have agreed, that the Pure title needed to come back because what was taking its place—FIP defenses by Roderick Strong—was just not up to par with the now deposed wrestling division. Now, it's true to this day, FIP defenses are anti-climactic in ROH because quite frankly no one expects the title to change hands on an ROH event; nor should it by the way because the fans of FIP in Florida deserve to see for themselves a title change as opposed to having to wait months for the DVD.
However, Ring of Honor does not at this time need to bring back the Pure title. This is because ROH is just rolling strong as far as storylines, angles and matches in both the mid card and the main event scene. There are enough appealing feuds such as the burgeoning Nigel McGuinness-Chris Hero issue, Danielson's march to an ROH title match, the dominance of Morishima, the NRC-Delirious / Resilience feud, The Briscoes tag title run, etc. These beefs are occupying space and time on the current cards. Putting the Pure title match on the card is superfluous right now heading into the summer of 2007. This is not to say that at some point in the future ROH wouldn't be best served to reintroduce the pure title or better yet a different mid card title to spice things up. However, right now, it's just not needed.
John Gregory : SELL . I still disagree with the decision to eliminate the Pure Title, but Ari's right to say that right now the current climate of ROH just doesn't call for its reintroduction. Even if FIP defenses are not to be on ROH shows (which they should be), the new SHIMMER belt will definitely be defended in the coming months. I'd go further to say that the Pure Title should never be reintroduced, but needs to be replaced by a different mid-level championship or a Six-Man Tag Team Championship in the future, and probably not until 2008.
2 for 2.
With the "Jimmy Jacobs dating Lacey" videos being generally well received, it's time for ROH to start doing more online vignettes and angles.
Ari Berenstein : BUY . Conditional to the fact that ideas are sound and well executed and at least decently produced and have decent video quality. I don't need to see concepts such as "BJ Whitmer shops at the supermarket for toilet paper and gets attacked by Brent Albright" or "The NRC show no remorse at an S&M bar". However, stuff like the latest videowire that follow Delirious (coming out of a swamp!) around as he searches for Strong and then attacks him to get revenge—this is the kind of footage that ROH should use more often. It expands the context of the feuds and adds depth to them. In the case of Jimmy Jacobs, who is currently injured and cannot wrestle, it gives him something interesting and fun to do to keep his character over in between his injury recovery. Not to mention, it gives ROH fans on the internet something fun to watch and to keep themselves occupied in between DVD purchases and attendance at live events. I'd love to see extra interview segments showing Larry Sweeney's posse (homage to "Entourage" maybe?) or perhaps some behind the scenes footage expanding on the relationship between McGuinness and Morishima (they seem to alternate between fighting each other, then teaming with each other, then fighting each other again—what's the deal? I gotsta know!) The right vignettes for the right storylines and wrestlers can do wonders to help generate buzz and interest. Not to mention that more free video footage can never be a bad thing, especially when trying to expose new fans to the product.
John Gregory : BUY . Ring of Honor has discovered there is a place for these sort of additions. Just say it, it's sports entertainment, and if done right and in small doses it can expand characters and feuds. However, it needs to be utilized with caution so as to not quickly undermine their usefulness. Gabe is usually smart enough to know when things are getting worn out, anyway, and knows when to put a stop to them. It'll work with certain wrestlers and help them develop their unique personalities like it has with Jimmy Jacobs. So I guess I'm saying yes as long as Gabe is his usual sensible booker self while doing it.
3 for 3.
SWITCH~!
The "new and improved" expanded 8 man roster for the Kings of Wrestling in CHIKARA (Hero, Claudio, Sweeney, Icarus, Gran Akuma, Chuck Taylor, Mitch Ryder and Max Boyer) is the best heel stable currently on the independent wrestling scene.
John Gregory : SELL . But with a twist. I like where they are going with the KOW, but I think the No Remorse Corps in ROH beat them in best heel stable on the indys. But I like the expansion of the Kings, as they have building ever since Hero turned on Quackenbush back at the 2005 Tag Grand Prix, and now they are expanding almost enough to swallow up the entire company. Besides its goofy gimmicky fun, CHIKARA patterns itself after lucha, and nothing screams lucha like a big horde of rudos. Plus it gives newer CHIKARA talent like Chuck Taylor and (the newly released from jail) Mitch Ryder a chance to build their reputations off of guys like Hero, Claudio, Sweeney, and Akuma, who could be unavailable to CHIKARA if ROH uses them full-time. Build for the future, folks.
Ari Berenstein : BUY . But, like John states, also with a twist. There is an incredibly vast amount of potential in the eight man roster for the Kings of Wrestling. These guys have enough talent, brains, brawn and the intangibles to rule CHIKARA for a long time to come. However, since they just got together to form the massive, Constructicon-esque KoW, there hasn't been the opportunity to see just how good (or rather, how rudo) these guys are together. Will this be a case of too many cooks ruining the kitchen? Separate from their de-facto leader and mentor, Akuma and Icarus have proven to be the elite of the CHIKARA tag division as the long reigning Campeones de Parejas. They won the belts from Hero and Castagnoli. Can they really subjugate their egos to be under the thumb of Hero once more? Likewise there are a lot of rough edges among the rest of the crew. Sweeney and Hero have an alliance, and Sweeney and Ryder have an alliance, but will Ryder be able to go with the KoW program? Chuck Taylor is also an X-factor here, as his oddball personality as well as his motives remains hard to get a hold of.
However, I look across the landscape of the rest of independent wrestling, and find that despite their relative short amount of time, there are no other stables with level of strength, health and numbers the size of the Kings of Wrestling. Yes, The No Remorse Corps have been successful in eradicating the competition in ROH, but was that more of a fluke given the problems of Austin Aries' contractual status? If Aries were around, I don't think the NRC would be this dominant this fast. But then again, look at who they're beating around the bush—Delirious (who's always a few fries short of a Happy Meal), Matt Cross and Erik Stevens. No offense to them because they're guys I like to watch in the ring, but they are a cut below Naomichi Marufuji (who Rocky Romero lost to on 5/12) and the tandem of Naruki Doi and SHINGO (whom bested Richards and Strong in March). Elsewhere, The Dynasty has fallen off from their golden days; they no longer rule PWG with an iron fist. In FIP, Dave Prazak's DP Associates are more of a nuisance than a real threat to the title at this point. The NRC may have done the most damage at this point, but I'd bet that the new and improved KoW will far outdo them with villainy and evil actions.
3 for 4.
IWA Mid-South doesn't get as much credit as it deserves for developing talent that ended up in ROH.
John Gregory : BUY . I have to wave my IWA Army flag here, because ROHbots tend to differ on how much credit they give to IWA and Ian Rotten, especially. Just to prove it, here are just 20 current and former ROH guys who first wrestled in IWA:
1. CM Punk-the best example. He really made his name with his series with Hero and Cabana back in 2001 and 2002. In fact, he wrestled Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio in a 3-way before ever making an ROH appearance. He also held his last IWA World Title in late 2004 to early 2005, when he was already a main eventer in ROH.
2. Colt Cabana-made his mark with Punk starting back in 2000.
3. Chris Hero-IWA's golden boy and until 2006 known as the best guy never to wrestle in ROH.
4. Jimmy Jacobs-His series with Alex Shelley started in IWA, not ROH. Debuted with "Huss" gimmick back in 2002.
5. Alex Shelley-Long before he was a member of Gen Next, Shelley was a straight-laced babyface in IWA.
6. Austin Aires-Wasn't a regular in IWA, but did first appear in the company back in 2003 for a few shows.
7. Jimmy Rave-First debuted in 2002, when he was to the armbar what Roddy Strong is to backbreakers.
8. Delirious-One of IWA's top stars since 2003, and a multiple time Light Heavyweight Champ.
9. Matt Sydal-IWA really made his career dating back to his 2004 series with AJ Styles. Winner of the 2005 TPI.
10. BJ Whitmer-Long time IWA veteran and former World Champ, debuting back in 2001 as Chris Hero's tag team partner.
11. Adam Pearce-He goes WAY back. Debuted in IWA in 2000 before he moved out to the West Coast.
12. Claudio Castagnoli-IWA made him in the states back in mid-2004.
13. M-Dogg 20-Former IWA Champ for 3 weeks back in 2002.
14. Sal Rinauro-debuted in the 2003 TPI.
15. Larry Sweeney-has made many appearances for IWA dating back to 2004 when he was fresh out of the Chikara Wrestle Factory
16. Nearly every SHIMMER wrestler, as IWA was given lots of women's action thanks to Dave Prazak prior to his departure.
17. Dave Prazak-the current voice of ROH was a manager for CM Punk starting back in 2000, as well as the commentator for IWA from 2002-2005.
18. Ace Steel-brought in alongside Punk and Cabana in 2001, won the 2001 Sweet Science Tournament and held the Light Heavyweight Title twice.
19. Petey Williams-was IWA World Champion for 4 months in 2004.
20. Danny Daniels-while just a footnote in ROH history, was a major star with IWA for years including winning the 2003 TPI and winning the World Title on 2 occassions.
So, basically, there's been a LOT of IWA Mid-South talent come into ROH. I certainly don't think they deserve all of the credit, or even most, but I think the list speaks for itself.
Ari Berenstein : BUY . It's hard to argue with a list that extensive (although I can nitpick a few of those last names that only had a half a cup of coffee in ROH), so for now I'll go with the flow and say that John is right…mostly. I do agree that IWA:MS is under looked and under credited for exposing a huge crop of independent wrestlers to a larger audience and then eventually to ROH. However, I think a factor that is undersold by IWA:MS fans is that as much as the wrestlers were able to develop and get the attention of other promotions there, by and large the best of that wrestler's development occurred after their stay. If IWA:MS was were they got their start, their seasoning and maturation came full fold in ROH and by traveling around to other independents. Let's look at the top five names on John's list and you'll see what I mean.
CM Punk: made a lot of noise as a heel in IWA:MS and his matches with Colt got him his break in ROH. However, it was his constant show stealing promos and feud with Raven that broke him out of his IWA mold and into something more evolved. From there on in, Punk elevated his game and garnered far more attention and praise (as well as his share of detractors) from his work in ROH with Ricky Steamboat and Samoa Joe. Colt Cabana: broke in with Punk, but it wasn't The Gold Bond Mafia that most people associate with him and Punk but rather the Second City Saints and Good Times, Great Memories, which he honed and crafted in ROH. Chris Hero: This one is clear IWA:MS as ROH definitely missed the boat on Hero. His character and work ethic grew so much over the years in IWA:MS. Jimmy Jacobs: IWA: MS will always be a huge part of Jacobs' history and the development of his character. Yet in my opinion his best feud and character variation occurred after the Huss gimmick and his rivalry with Shelley. I of course am speaking of his recent feud with BJ Whitmer—and their opus of violence over the last eighteen months. Not to mention his promos have been Foley-esque as of late. Alex Shelley: Again, someone who got his in with ROH thanks to the rivalry with Jacobs in IWA:MS, but it wasn't until his breakout performances as a part of Generation Next in ROH that Shelley (and Aries for that matter) unlocked his full potential, to be seen in this day in TNA. I could go on and on, but you get my point.
So in the end, I think there is something to be said on both ends of the argument. IWA:MS needs to be recognized more by the IWC at large for fostering and bringing up some of the future independent wrestling stars, but more often than not ROH is where the chickens come home to roost and a wrestler's personality and wrestling ability is evolved to the next level.
4 for 5.
This year's TPI Tournament winner should be an IWA Mid-South regular and not an established 'big name' from outside of the company.
John Gregory : BUY . But it's sort of in the middle. Starting in 2001, when this was still the Sweet Science Sixteen Tournament, IWA has had outside wrestlers in this tournament. Ace Steel won in 2001, BJ Whitmer in 2002, and Danny Daniels in 2003, all at the time IWA regulars. AJ Styles won in 2004, and he had made numerous appearances in IWA that year. Matt Sydal, a IWA regular, won it in 2005, but has appeared only a handful of times in the promotion since. Low-Ki won in 2006, and due to his non-involvement in ROH has become IWA's ace and made mostly regular appearances since debuting a year ago.
13 men have been announced for the 07 TPI, and only a few can be considered regulars (Ki, Drake Younger, and Eddie Kingston) and the rest (Hero, Quack, Claudio, Sydal, Davey Richards, Samoa Joe, Nigel, Whitmer, Joey Ryan, and Alex Shelley) are either former IWA talent or outside stars. In my personal opinion, the best choice for victor this year is either Low-Ki becoming the first ever 2-time winner, current IWA Champion Chuck Taylor, or up and coming star Joker. All these guys would make great tournament winners, and will appear in IWA more than just a few times a year. The IWA regular roster has these few gems I feel are ready for the big push of a TPI win, where as last year I wouldn't have said the same besides Low-Ki.
Ari Berenstein : BUY . By and large, tournament winners these days should put over talent that the company is going to put focus upon and build for the foreseeable future. While the Sweet Science 16 ne: Ted Petty Invitational has a huge purpose as a tribute to the now departed member of Public Enemy, IWA:MS should use the attention the tournament gets now that it is firmly established in the world of independent wrestling. The TPI has name value, so using it to push a guy like Drake Younger, who has focused a good part of his career in IWA:MS, or in Eddie Kingston, who seems to be just a few more big matches / big moments away from blowing up big time on the indie scene…in a good way that is. Then again, if IWA:MS has a commitment from a name such as Joe or Nigel for the coming year, then this would be a good way to establish them as a force to be reckoned with and create some heat. If I have the book however, I'd give the tourney win to Younger, Kingston or Taylor.
5 for 6!
The Tenth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 5 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.
