411’s Buy or Sell 06.22.07: Brent Albright as ROH World Champion, The Resilience, and is Philadelphia still ROH’s Home?
Posted by Samuel Berman on 06.22.2007
The 411 staff discusses Ring of Honor as Jacob Ziegler battles Stuart Carapola!
Welcome everyone to WEEK TWELVE of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.
Week Twelve's Match-Up:
Friendly Competition's Stuart Carapola vs. ROH DVD Co-Reviewer Jacob Ziegler!
Though the company's offices and roots are in Philadelphia , the current epicenter for Ring of Honor is New York City.
Stuart Carapola: BUY. Ring Of Honor's been up front about the fact that they plan to make New York City their base of operations as far as live events go, and they've clearly been bringing their best shows to the Manhattan Center since their debut there last September. As for Philadelphia , I've been at their last few shows there and attendance has definitely been down quite a bit. I don't know why that is because they haven't exactly been bringing weak shows there. On the contrary, I'd even go so far as to say that Philly is probably their second or third best market as far as consistent show quality goes, and the only explanation I can come up with as to why attendance is down in Philly is that all the CZW fans that came along for the ride in 2006 really did go back to the peep show after the feud was over. Then again, maybe the Philly market is just down in general, I don't know. Either way, ROH's best efforts are certainly being focused on New York , there's no doubt about that.
Jacob Ziegler : BUY . The New York City shows have had a special feeling going all the way back to Manhattan Mayhem, which I still think is the best show ROH has ever done (even though there is some close competition). I think it symbolizes how far ROH has come and that it's not the same promotion it used to be. Philadelphia has a very strong hardcore association due to the history of ECW, and ROH in creating its own identity has set up shop in New York City and it's done really well for them and I anticipate that will continue.
1 for 1.
With Austin Aries out of the picture, The Resilience can't be viewed as major players by ROH fans.
Stuart Carapola : BUY . I'd even go so far as to say that they weren't being viewed as major players even when Aries was still around. Let's face it, they've been booked to look like a bunch of losers who just can't hang with the No Remorse Corps, and though I think Erick Stevens had some potential before getting sucked into this gimmick, I have a really hard time accepting Matt Cross as being able to legitimately beat anyone, much less guys like Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, and Rocky Romero. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of putting young guys together in a faction to build them up. After all, it worked for Generation Next in the first place. The thing is that they need to look like they have a chance of winning, and the Resilience has gotten their asses handed to them time and time again. I think that if they're looking at making Stevens and Cross appear credible in the slightest, the No Remorse Corps are the wrong guys to program them with.
Jacob Ziegler : SELL . Stu makes some excellent points and I think I can agree with them to an extent. I just feel that Stevens and Cross are both talented enough to get over as players in ROH. Losing Aries when they did was a blow to the group and the angle (even if I personally won't miss him), but I think it can be recovered. Working with Strong, Richards, and Romero should raise their stock, and if they can get a good leader I think the Resilience could have a very good shot at getting over.
1 for 2.
BJ Whitmer has moved as far up as he can in Ring of Honor.
Stuart Carapola : BUY . The truth is that no matter what they've tried with him, including having him nearly kill himself on a nightly basis during the CZW war, the guy just isn't getting over as a main eventer. He doesn't have that charisma that a real main eventer needs and, while he's good to be "on the good guy team" when fighting the evil invaders or whatever, he's just not a guy the ROH fans are going to accept as a top level player. I feel bad for him because he really has busted his ass in that company for over four years and has had several false starts, but just never got there. At this point, I think the best they can hope for out of him is making him the guy that the new hot prospect beats on his own way to the top like they've done a couple of times with Morishima. I can see him one day getting a WWE deal based on his look, but I don't ever see him being more than a jobber there, either. I remember somebody on 411 making a remark some time back along the lines of "No matter how much I wanted to, I couldn't bring myself to buy a BJ Whitmer t-shirt", and I think that just about says it all.
Jacob Ziegler : BUY . I hate to agree with this one, but I think it's the case. Whitmer is a really nice guy and has busted his ass to get to where he is in Ring of Honor, but I just don't see him having the "it" factor necessary to get to that next level (and I really hate to sound like Jim Ross right there). There's definitely a place for him in Ring of Honor and I think he is a very valuable guy to have around, but I just don't see him ever being a legitimate threat to the World Title.
2 for 3.
SWITCH~!
Brent Albright will win the ROH World Title when he gets his shot in August.
Jacob Ziegler : SELL . I'm not sure why this is even a question on here. I know some people are going nuts for Albright, but I think it's just because he's a WWE castoff and ROH fans are usually pretty eager to love someone WWE got rid of because they think they can prove they know more than WWE or
something silly like that. Albright is fine and decent in the ring, but he hasn't been pushed hard enough or consistent enough to even be considered to be in the running for the ROH World Title. No one thought Jay Briscoe or Roderick Strong had a chance, and they've both done quite a bit more in ROH than Albright has. The bottom line is that Albright doesn't have the charisma necessary to carry a company the stature of ROH as a World Champion. In fact, while I obviously don't know anything about the rest of the card at this point (the show is over two months away), I'm not even sure it would be the main event of its show. I expect Takeshi Morishima will drop the title in Japan in July (my pick is Nigel McGuinness), and thus this
will be one of the first title defenses for the new champion (if everything goes according to my plan), so there is just no way Albright stands a chance.
Stuart Carapola : SELL . I'm really tempted to say that he is going to get it, but I don't know that August is when it's going to happen. My reasoning is different than Jake's, however. For one, though he hasn't gotten a
megapush like most recent ROH Champions have before winning the title, look back at Samoa Joe's track record leading into winning the title from Xavier. He was impressive, but at the end of the day was just another face in the crowd before winning a four way #1 contender's match and then squashing Xavier to take the title. That sounds a lot like Albright's track record in ROH, and the only difference I see between their situations is that Albright already has a reputation coming off his OVW/WWE runs. Another thing about Albright is that, though he hasn't had a chance to show much charisma (though I have seen glimmers of it), the guy is way over, and he's over on his own merits instead of being over based on his WWE employment. And even if his WWE run did factor into it, so what? James Gibson was one of the most over people to ever work in ROH, and his forgettable WWE run had nothing to do with that, it was all based on how he recreated himself in ROH, which Albright has done successfully as well.
But getting back to the subject at hand, the one thing I'm almost certain of is that Morishima will not make it through the Japan tour with the ROH World Title. I've been paying attention to the announced lineups and, aside from being listed on Death Before Dishonor V weekend as appearing "if still champion", Morishima is not scheduled to make any appearances after the Japan shows, so if I were a betting man, I'd put money on Morishima dropping the title in Japan, especially since that would build history for the ROH World Title by having it change hands overseas. I'll agree with Jake on one thing, though: whoever the new champion is probably isn't going to drop it to anyone in his first few title defenses. If it is Nigel who beats Morishima as expected (though I think Bryan Danielson would also make an excellent choice), I can see Albright and he having a good series of hard-hitting matches to help establish Nigel as a tough champion who can take a beating and still come back to beat everybody, but as much as I'd
like to see Albright, new entrance music and costume and all, take the title in August, I don't think it's going to happen.
3 for 4.
The decision to leave the Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness match from
Philadelphia off of the 6/9 DVD is a bad one.
Jacob Ziegler : BUY . I'll admit right of the bat that I'm not as passionate about this one as some people I have seen, but I am a completist at heart, so the 6/9 DVD will feel a bit incomplete. I understand ROH booker Gabe Sapolsky's reasoning for why it's going down this way, but I think a match from a different show will appear different on the PPV and might be a little jarring. However, knowing the match will eventually come out on DVD is good enough for me (and I plan to watch it on PPV as well), so while it's slightly irritating that it won't be on the DVD where it first happened, it's by no means the end of my world. They've added an unreleased FIP Title match between Danielson and Jay Lethal as seemingly a peace offering of sorts, and I like that because it just gives me one more match to add to my collection. The bottom line is that these PPV's being on a schedule that's
different from the non-PPV shows is a new and unique challenge to Ring of Honor, and it may take them a few tries to get a good system worked out that keeps both the PPVs and non-PPVs strong. My advice is to just be patient and give ROH a chance here, because they always do right by the fans in the end.
Stuart Carapola : SELL . I understand what Jake's saying about being a completist, but I'm also willing to look at what is going to make sense from a business perspective and understand that if they want people to buy the PPV, they can't put the match that may end up selling it most on another DVD that's coming out around the same time. While I am disappointed that the match isn't going to be on the DVD (and in no way believe that any Danielson-Lethal match makes an adequate replacement), it will be out on DVD eventually, so it's just a matter of waiting. Some of the people I've heard complaining about the match not being on the 6/9 DVD sound like kids who know what they're getting on Christmas and want it early instead of waiting until December 25th. People need to have a little more patience and, having been there to see the match live, I will say that it's one of my favorite matches of the year so far and is going to be worth the extra month or however long of waiting.
3 for 5.
Ring of Honor's style has become too one-dimensional.
Jacob Ziegler : SELL . One needs to look no further than the second half of Supercard of Honor II to prove this false. First you start with the brutal steel cage match between Jimmy Jacobs and BJ Whitmer (my MOTYSFFWIS), then you've got the FIP Title match between Roderick Strong and Austin Aries, and they finish it off with the Dragon Gate six-man tag team match, and one can see that ROH easily has the most diverse wrestling product around. Sometimes I do think some matches can get a bit repetitive, but overall ROH presents a wide variety of styles that one just can't find elsewhere.
Stuart Carapola : SELL . I can see why somebody would think this because stiff strikes seem to have become a calling card of a lot of recent ROH matches, but there's a difference between a promotion's style being known
for stiff strikes and stiff strikes being the only style seen in the promotion. As Jake said, ROH's matches have gone into several directions with the brutal brawling, masterful technical wrestling, and high-flying spotfests. In fact, with the CHIKARA talent making several appearances
recently, it would seem that there is an interest in doing more lucha-esque spotfests in the future. ROH has been very good about not taking a concept, whether it be storyline or in-ring, and beating it into the ground. You don't see people throwing toilet paper at Jimmy Rave anymore. Generation Next went away once it had outlived its purpose. Steel Cage Warfare hasn't made another appearance in the nearly two years since the first match. The Pure Title was even retired because Gabe Sapolsky thought it had run its course and didn't want it to be something they did just for the sake of having another title, for example. There are some things ROH can be accused of, but being one-dimensional is not among them.
4 for 6!
The Twelfth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 4 for 6. Stay tuned for next week when two new men will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.
