Thoughts From The Top Rope 10.30.2007: Stars of Tomorrow

Posted by Daniel Wilcox on 10.30.2007

Who on the current WWE roster are the guys that'll be headlining WrestleMania 28? Find out inside!

Thoughts From The Polls

Last week's results are in and 76% of you think Candice Michelle is out. Therefore, 24% of you are gay or retarded. Or both. Damn, wouldn't that suck?

More importantly, you voted on what the stipulation will be for the next dream match that I book. Abyss will fight Triple in either a Street Fight, First Blood, Last Man Standing, Hell in a Cell or Bra and Panties match. The last one was obviously thrown is as a joke and you guys decided to screw with me. Both the Hell in a Cell and Bra and Panties match had 37% of the vote! Thankfully, at 20:00 last night, the Hell in the Cell match had one more vote and so that's what we're going to get, right here, next week!

And finally, I asked you to vote on what topic I'd write about this week. With 49% of the vote, the winner was Stars of Tomorrow: Who's The Future? so that's what we're going to run with. Be prepared, because some of the answers may surprise you.

Stars of Tomorrow: Who's the Future?

Many people have said over the last year that WWE is in a rebuilding phase and that's something I'll certainly agree with. The Monday Night Wars created countless stars but how many of those are still around? The Rock is firmly cemented in Hollywood. Steve Austin makes the occasional fleeting appearance. Mick Foley does the same. Kurt Angle is in TNA. Chris Benoit is dead. Big Show has moved on from wrestling. Chris Jericho is… around somewhere. Truth be told, the only main event star that is still around who was created during this time is Triple H and with two bum quads, one has to ask how long he has left.

Credit where credit's due, soon after WCW had folded and the Attitude Era was well and truly over, they looked to make two new stars. A couple of young, fresh faces were showing up and having some good matches in the summer of 2002 – these guys would have varying success. Batista and John Cena are the two obvious ones and they were both world champions three years later. Cena is now arguably the best performer in the industry and Batista is a great big man as was evident by his Cyber Sunday bout with The Undertaker. This was also the time period that Randy Orton showed up and he was pushed in a similar way. In fact, he was a World champion a year before Cena and Batista were but from there he kind of slipped off the radar – only in the last 6 months has Randy found his inner-star. Another young talent that emerged was Orlando Jordan, but it's best not to go there.

2002 was also the time of the SmackDown Six – this was Edge, Rey Mysterio, Chavo and Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. It was pretty obvious by the reactions their matches were getting that these guys were being groomed to main event shows and carry the company into the future. For some of them, this worked out great. For others, not so much. Kurt Angle, already a useful hand, held the title several more times in his WWE career but he eventually blew up and is potentially ruining a great rival promotion known as TNA. Chris Benoit was a World Champion in 2004, but when management realized the guy lacked drawing power and charisma; he was soon relegated to mid-card status. In 2007, Chris killed his family and himself. Yeah, that one didn't work out too good. Eddie Guerrero also became WWE Champion in 2004. He had a solid run with the championship and even after he lost it, he regularly in the main event. In late 2005, Eddie may well have been on his way to a second world title but tragically lost his life to a heart failure. His nephew Chavo, never went on to the same main event status, however. Edge and Mysterio on the other hand, took a little while longer to get to where they needed to be, but in 2006 both won world titles and now they are two of the most marketable men in the WWE.

In retrospective, 2002 was really the year WWE started making new stars – Cena, Batista, Edge, Mysterio and Orton are all the "present" of the WWE, with old hands such as Shawn Michaels, Triple H and the Undertaker helping out. These men only became stars because of the way they were booked and who they went over. In his first year in the business, John Cena wrestled and beat guys like Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and The Undertaker – all of which were big stars already. Batista was in the super-group Evolution that inevitably led to his later success. The same goes for Randy Orton. Edge and Mysterio benefited from working with some of the most able workers in the game and having a string of four and even five star matches.

Let us not forget those stars that did not work out. Brock Lesnar was never groomed. He was thrown on the main roster and put over absolutely everybody – The Rock, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle to name but a few. By WrestleMania 20, he'd done everything there was to do in the business – he was a 3 time WWE Champion at the age of 26 – and he left for the NFL. It turns out that didn't go to well but WWE lost a star, at least to a degree because he was pushed to the moon without the fans really wanting him around. Then there's young Jeff Hardy who was given a hell of a push in 2002 and came within inches of being WWE Champion – the fact that people really thought he could beat Taker in that Ladder match is a great credit to Hardy. Unfortunately, Hardy had his own demons and was released the next year.

Hardy falls into the category of guys it's not too late for. Jeff was resigned last year and has been a tremendous asset to the Raw brand ever since. A slew of guys were given sizeable pushes in 2003 and 2004 that are still on the main roster, but treading water. They are all talented but the potential that we saw in them hasn't come to the surface as often as it should have. I'm talking about guys like Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, Matt Hardy and even Snitsky, who could have been a really good big man had they booked him as he was booked in 2004. For the record, Matt Hardy goes into a category of his own right now – finally showing what he's all about.

In 5 years time, the likes of Triple H, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Kane won't be around. Even guys like Batista and Edge will have moved on. The guys that are constantly main eventing today have had the benefit of true greats of this business putting them over but now there are fewer and fewer guys who can do this. The current crop of WWE youngster need to step up now while they had they have the chance to make a name for themselves because if they don't, this potential downward spiral of the WWE will only continue. Of course, the creative team also has a hand in the future of the company, but if a worker works hard enough, the fans will appreciate him and management will really have no choice but turn him into a bona fide star.

So, who are these kids that need to step up to the plate?

Umaga: I'm fairly sure that most of you never really saw this one coming. In the 18 months that Umaga has been in the WWE he has shown absolutely tremendous work ethic and has had some of the best matches of 2007, notably his street fight with Triple H and Last Man Standing match with John Cena. Now in TNA, you've got a guy named Abyss who is a legit monster and is always at the top end of the card. He's one of TNA's biggest stars. Sure, he's not going to have many long reigns as world champion, but he's always a threat and always impressive. This is the kind of guy that Umaga can be in WWE but the one thing that separates Abyss from Umaga is Umaga never wins a high profile feud, be it with Triple H, Cena or Bobby Lashley. A couple of great matches where Umaga actually goes over would catapult the guy into a legitimate mainstay of the title picture and I don't think anybody would have a problem with Umaga being a World Champion somewhere down the line. Heck, he's already done his fair share in putting over the likes of Lashley, Cena and Jeff Hardy so a face run might be a nice reward. Of course, you'd need the right opponents for Umaga to go over. As a heel, big wins over a guy like Mick Foley or a brutal bout with Jeff Hardy or Shawn Michaels would do wonders for his career. However, if WWE wants Umaga to always be the reliable big guy who gets good heat, then they've booked him very well – I just see no reason why he can't be so much more.

Montel Vontavious Porter and Matt Hardy: MVP is on his way to superstardom. Everything about his character screams "main-eventer." He's got the cocky, arrogant heel thing down perfectly. His look is one that is truly unique and his gimmick is as good as any in the WWE right now. Add to that the fact that he is more than capable of working with a variety of different opponents in the ring and having good matches, you have yourself a surefire future world champion. The only thing holding MVP back right now is the booking he's been subjected to, I think. See, on the surface, people think that this MVP/Hardy feud is a way to elevate Matt Hardy after years of hard work, but that would be a the expense of a fellow rising star so what would be the point? Maybe, just maybe, WWE wants Matt and MVP to elevate each other in the way that Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho did with their rivalry, and the way The Rock and Triple H did in their rivalry. But for that to work, both guys have to be on a level playing field. Now going in, they pretty much were on an even keel. But Hardy has gotten the better of MVP pretty much every week for the past 3 months and the only time MVP as gone over Hardy in one of their little contests, he's cheated. That's not portraying them as equal. The best thing WWE can do with these two right now is have them drop the titles and let them go at each other every week. Put them in title match on pay-per-view and give them a good fifteen minutes to perform. Trade the title between them a few times – hey, it worked for Jeff Hardy and Johnny Nitro last year so why not?

MVP's look, charisma and gimmick will send him to the top level. Matt Hardy's sheer in-ring talent and fan base will do the same for him. You want to create main eventers? This is the way to go. Don't put one guy over the other, put them both over each other.

Mr. Kennedy: OK, so this one was kind of obvious but it's true that Kennedy has faced a good amount of backlash in the last few months after his drug bust and less than amazing in ring performances. The thing with this steroid "scandal" is way overblown. The only reason that this was big news was because there were so many guys who got busted at once, and the press was already on WWE's back over the Benoit shit. Seriously, people acting shocked at wrestlers doing steroids is just stupid. The dumb thing on Kennedy's part is going out a few weeks beforehand and saying you've never done steroids.

All that aside, Kennedy still has a great upside. His charisma is really his biggest asset, but he also very good in the ring. Some people say they don't see what it is about the guy and at times I can see where they are coming from – those are the times when Kennedy is unmotivated and has nothing to do. Look back at his series of promos in 2006 when he was feuding with The Undertaker. I remember one where Kennedy was on the tron in a darkened room that was just fantastic and would easily have got my vote for promo of the year. For an example of how good he is in the ring, check out some of his matches against guys like Batista – Kennedy does so much work in those matches to make himself and his opponent and that's hard shit to do.

You may argue that the guy should be motivated to go out there and give all he's got every single night and I'd agree. But I have faith in creative's faith in Kennedy. They wouldn't have drafted him to Raw if they didn't think he was worth something. Sooner or later they'll throw the guy a bone and then we'll all see how truly awesome Kennedy is.

John Morrison: In case you hadn't heard, this guy is truly awesome. Morrison has found his own little niche in ECW and the key thing that is helping him is his ability to talk. No-one cuts promos like this guy right now. Granted, for whatever reason, the live audiences aren't always enthralled by the guy but he comes across as a true star on TV and at the end of they day that's all that matters – they can always pump in some extra heat. Besides, with more exposure, Morrison will gradually get more and more over with the crowds.

Morrison is also a very solid hand in the ring as he has proved to be one of the most athletic guys on the roster and can do things I've never seen done before (split-legged corkscrew moonsault, anyone?). What Morrison needs is a solid run in the mid-card. Hopefully he'll either get another shot with the ECW gold and hold onto it for a long while, or he'll be moved over to SmackDown where he can have a solid run with the US strap.

So these are the guys with the ability. It's in their hands what they do with that ability but in five years time when I'm writing a similar column, hopefully I can be signing the praises of MVP, Morrison, Kennedy, Umaga and Hardy while willing on the next group of WWE stars.

Thoughts From The Inbox

Let's take a look at some feedback, yes? As always, your emails in bold and my thoughts in regular font. First up is long-time reader Samer;

Hey Dan...

Hi.

Nice column this week as per usual, and Raw wasn't bad either, and they did a nice job of building Cyber Sunday.

Like all WWE PPV's, it has some potential to be good, even very good. And while the in ring action is promising, I don't like the way the main events have been built:

You pretty much said everything I wanted to say about Taker and Batista. These guys have unfinished business, their last two matches didn't have a clear winner, Taker is back, makes the "I want the belt" motion and now they're facing each others? Plus shouldn't Rey and Finlay be pissed at The Undertaker for costing them their title shot? Frankly I think such a big match should have been held at least until Survivor Series, and I could have done with a triple threat involving Batista, Rey and Finlay. It would have been a great match.

I kind of think that they definitely rushed into the Taker/Batista match here, but I will say that it was one hell of a match.

As for the other Main event, which will probably be Orton Vs HBk, well i'm torn.. They have done a pretty good job at building it under the circumstances, and even involved Hardy and Kennedy in a very smart way should they get the votes. But i also feel an HBK vs Orton match should have been held for later. Wrestlemania would have been good like you stated in your last column, but since Hunter already has that spot, then the Royal Rumble would have been a better choice. That being said, the feud was already set up since Orton "injured" HBK so no complaints there. However i'm worried about Shawn's condition, i've never seen him that slow. He basically limped to the ring to make the save at the beginning of last week's Raw. I hope they can have a good match though. And I REALLY hope that the WWE would spare us with bullshit DQ finish at Cyber Sunday, but i wouldn't count on it, and i bet we'll see one either in this match or in Taker vs Batista.

I thought the DQ would come in the World title match, but alas, we got in the WWE Championship match. Thankfully what proceeded it was really good stuff and Shawn didn't look any less than 100% in my opinion at Cyber Sunday.

The Undercard looks really solid, with Rey vs Finlay (i'm hoping for a stretcher match too), MVP vs Hardy ( A WRESTLING match PLZ!), and i think we'll see Kennedy vs Hardy if they don't get voted in the main event, which is great.
Triple H vs Umaga should definitely be a street fight. Like you said HHH excels in hardcore environments. If given time, and if Umaga isn't squashed this could be great.

The Triple H/Umaga match was another great hardcore-style match, something that Raw has produced a lot of this year. The undercard was solid, but unfortunately Hardy was out due to injury and we were forced to sit through Kane/MVP XXII and it kind of halted the flow of the show. Luckily, Michaels and Orton's performance managed to restore that flow.

Please let Punk retain, his title rain has been very underwhelming so far, he needs a solid title defense.

And he got it, thankfully.

Living the Dream: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker...

It's simple really: Hell In a Cell, Bad Blood 1997, it doesn't get any better than this. Surely one of the best WWE matches of the decade and just a proof why HBK is a legend.

That being said, i would definitely love to see these two go at it again, maybe at WrestleMania in an interpromotional match, it could be awesome. Although i awesome both of them will have something better to do.

-Candice is hot, she's no Melina, Maria, or Mickey, but she's hot.

-Last Man Standing for HHH vs Abyss (5 words: Pedigree on the broken glass).

-I'm hoping you would write about your favorite matches, i would love to read about that, since that's what wrestling is all about, great matches. If it doesn't get the majority of the votes i hope you would write about it at some point in the future.
Why Smarks are wrong about HHH will get you a lot of feedback though, lol.

My favourite matches is certainly something I'll write about in the near future as I've been watching a lot of old tapes to compile a solid list. Maybe I'll do it around my one year 411 anniversary in a few weeks time.

That's it for now, great column.
Cheers.

Thanks Samer!

From Chris Jacobs;

Bradshaw may be a natural heel, but he has the charisma to be a face, just look at the APA run, he was awesome.

I agree with this. I remember his promo from WrestleMania X-Seven that was truly awesome. I could see him playing a face in the role of defending the US against some foreign heel or something like that. I'd love to see him return to the ring, face or heel. A feud with Mick Foley would be great.

From Dave Singh;

Hey long time reader just thought I would actually reply this time. Here goes:

Wrestlemania 24 Card

Randy Orton(c) Vs Chris Jericho – WWE Title – Singles Match

Chris Jericho makes his return and builds himself back up, first fueding with Mr Kennedy and then wins the Royal Rumble. Orton fueds with Shawn Michaels until the Royal Rumble when he defeats HBK and then its these two at Mania, only one result:
Winner and NEW WWE Champion – Chris Jericho

I like the idea of this match, and it'd probably be great. I just wonder if WWE have faith enough in these two men to draw a big buyrate for Mania.

Edge(c) Vs The Undertaker – World Heavyweight Championship – Singles Match

Edge returns at Survivor Series, involving himself in the Title Match and accidently costs Taker the Title. He wins a No.1 Contender Fatal Four Way match on Smackdown leading up to Armageddon where he runs away from Taker the whole match and ends up pinning him after someone else knocked Taker out. Edge wins the Title at Armageddon when Taker accidentally knocks out Batista. Taker and Batista fight for the No.1 Contendership for Mania which Taker wins, finally ending that feud and allowing Edge/Taker to build up to Mania, with Edge mostly playing the cowardly yet smart heel, sneak attacking Taker with Con-chair-to's until Mania when Taker defeats him.
Winner and NEW World Heavyweight Champion – The Undertaker

Mr Kennedy Vs Shawn Michaels – Singles Match

Simple fued. Kennedy taunts Michaels for losing his shot at the WWE Title at the Royal Rumble and tells him to watch him win the Rumble. In the match, HBK runs out and Superkicks Kennedy, which then leads him to be eliminated by Jeff Hardy. From there, usual build-up, Kennedy blames Michaels for kicking him and costing him the match and vows to defeat Michaels, which he does at the end.
Winner: Mr Kennedy

Simple and effective. I like it.

Ric Flair Vs Triple H – Singles Match

Let this be Ric Flair's Retirement Match. Have HHH induct him in the Hall of Fame the night before and say this match up is out of respect. Build-up Flair in the Rumble and let him start from Number 3 and have him recreate his 1992 match and he lasts till the final four, where he is eliminated by HHH. Have Flair throw a fit outside the ring and then demand a match with HHH on Raw, with HHH replying that he doesn't want to face this Ric Flair on Raw, he wants to face the OLD Ric Flair, at Wrestlemania. HHH challenges Flair to prove he still has it. Flair says he doesn't have to prove anything to HHH. HHH says he saw Flair last night at the Rumble, he needs to prove it to himself he still has it. Have Flair build-up to Mania, defeating opponent after opponent. No physical contact with HHH though. Finally, after No Way Out, HHH accepts Flair's challenge and they cut promos with HHH mentioning his respect for Flair and showing video footage of Flair's greatest moments. The Raw before Mania, have them in a tag-match, Flair is being beaten down and HHH makes the save. However, you never turn your back on the OLD Ric Flair and so Flair drops to his knees and levels HHH with an old fashioned Ric Flair low blow, flooring HHH and Flair screams in his face "Sunday, the OLD Ric Flair is gonna take you to SCHOOL, WOOOOOOOOO". Have them fight fair and eventually, Flair makes HHH tap out.
Winner: Ric Flair

Wow, I love this. The Rumble set-up is tremendous and it's great how you played on the history. The icing on this delicious cake is Flair nailing The Game right before Mania with that low-blow – classic Flair!

Batista Vs Bobby Lashley – No Disqualification Singles Match

In the Rumble, these two have a face off. Hopefully, the crowd will react positively to it as well. However, they dont come to blows as they are both attacked. However, have Bobby accidently eliminate Batista, say Batista is on the apron and Bobby is thrown into him by someone, say Kennedy. Batista stares a hole in Bobby and they argue, which allows Kennedy to eliminate Lashley. They both continue arguing and are separated by officials. Have Batista mention what happened on Smackdown and informs everyone he is going to Raw to talk to Lashley. Batista shows up on Raw and calls out Lashley. Lashley enters the ring and before he can answer Batista, Kennedy interrupts, bragging he eliminated both. Have Kennedy say something, which leads to blows between Lashley and Kennedy and then have Lashley accidently spear Batista. Next week on Raw, have Lashley face Umaga and then Kennedy attacks and they both beat down Lashley. Have Batista walk out in a suit and pretend to enter the ring, but instead watches from a chair as Umaga destroys Lashley, with Kennedy giving directions. Have them leave the ring and then Batista stands up and takes off his sunglasses. He calmly walks into the ring and helps up Lashley before delivering a Batista Bomb. Batista is now a heel (thank god). Tag match at No Way Out, where a Batista Spear costs Lashley the match as he is pinned by Kennedy. Batista continues attacking Lashley after matches leading to a big pull-apart brawl on the Raw before Mania which goes from the ring, all around ringside, up the ramp, backstage until about 15 Superstars from the Raw locker-room break it up. It needs to feel big so then at Mania they brawl until Lashley finally puts Batista away with a Spear.
Winner: Bobby Lashley

I like this too. Too big men just beating the shit out of each other usually works. You get bonus points for turning Batista heel, too.

Finlay Vs Jeff Hardy Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Elijah Burke Vs Kane Vs Santino Marella – Money In the Bank Ladder Match

Have a MITB tournament leading up to Mania with matches randomly chosen:
Finlay Vs Matt Hardy – Winner: Finlay due to MVP-ference
Jeff Hardy Vs Mr. Kennedy – Winner: Jeff Hardy due to HBK-ference
Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Haas – Winner: Shelton Benjamin
Elijah Burke Vs John Morrison – Winner: Elijah Burke
Kane Vs Mark Henry – Winner: Kane
Battle Royal for last entry – Winner: Santino Marella (hids outside ring all match and sneaks in at the end to throw out someone)

The match? Usual spots, have Hardy fly off a ladder, Benjamin run up a ladder, Kane throw a ladder, Marella hide from a ladder, Burke get hit with the ladder and Finlay can....use the Shelialigh. End of the day, Mr Money in the Bank:
Winner: Jeff Hardy

Solid booking here. I can just picture the Santino promos now; "I-a don't want to climb uppa this ladder! I am Santino Marella and I should be Mr. Money in the Bank-a anyway!"

Paul London and Brian Kendrick Vs Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch (c) Vs Harry Smith and Ted DiBiase Jr – World Tag Team Championship – Triple Threat Match

I like the idea of having Harry Smith (DH Smith, whatever) in a tag team at the beginning of his career so have him team with Ted DiBiase Jr. Hell, you dont need to call them The Hart Foundation, I think they can be sold on the fact they are Harry SMITH and Ted DIBIASE Jr. Have them finally defeat Cade and Murdoch.
Winners and NEW Word Tag Team Champions: Harry Smith and Ted DiBiase Jr.

MVP(c) Vs Matt Hardy – WWE United States Championship – I Quit Match

Yes I think this should be carried on until Wrestlemania. Have them face at Cyber Sunday and have MVP win due to cheating. Have them then face off at Survivor Series, each getting their own team, stipulation being if Hardy won he got a US Title shot but if MVP's team won he would never get one again. Hardy wins after being in a 3-1 situation, finally pinning MVP. Have them meet again in the Rumble with Hardy eliminating MVP. Build it around who the better man is and have Hardy say the only way to prove it is to have someone quit, thus leading to the stipulation. Have MVP start to up the intensity on beat downs, using chairs and making Hardy bleed on the build-up to Mania. At Mania, let there be blood and weapons and a new champion.
Winner and NEW WWE United States Champion: Matt Hardy

Umaga Vs Mick Foley – Hardcore Match

I was thinking, which would be better. McMahon/Foley or Umaga/Foley. And then I thought, have McMahon goad Foley into making a return to the ring, giving Foley the impression he will be fighting Vince. However, when Foley accepts, Vince can show him who he will be fighting, cue Umaga and a bloody beat down of Foley. Have Vince boast he got rid of Foley once and for all and then at the Rumble, have Umaga destroy various jobbers and eliminate 7 when Foley returns and brawls with him all the way round ringside and up the ramp. Have Foley challenge Umaga to a match at Mania under his terms, a Hardcore Match. McMahon, on Umaga's behalf accepts. Have Umaga destroy and bloody people on the lead up to Mania, have Foley play videos of his sickest, twisted moments, from Japan and ECW and WWE, and then have a few brawls until they face off at Mania.
Winner: Umaga

I like it. I think it'd be great to eventually have a McMahon/Foley match but Umaga/Foley would be equally awesome.

CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio(c) – ECW Title – Singles Match

ECW and Smackdown will be sharing talent now. I can't see Rey Mysterio a World Champion for Smackdown again, so next best thing is to have him a ECW Champion. Have him fight Morrison and Punk in a Triple Threat at say the Rumble and Mysterio can pin Morrison. Have Morrison and Punk fight for the No.1 Contendership, Punk wins, there you go, a fun, fast-paced match to start Wrestlemania. Punk defeats Mysterio and hopefully gets a nice loud reaction and celebration, kind of like John Cena at Mania XX when he got the US Title.?Winner and NEW ECW Champion: CM Punk

There you have it, my Wrestlemania 24 Card. Here it is in order of match lineup:

ECW Championship: CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio (c)
Money In The Bank Ladder Match
Batista Vs Bobby Lashley – No DQ Match
World Tag Team Championship: Paul London and Brian Kendrick Vs Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch (c) Vs Harry Smith and Ted DiBiase Jr.

*Here have Vince McMahon come out and address the crowd and state Umaga is going to destroy Foley. Have him interrupted by John Cena and have Cena FU the Chairman, thus eliminating him from interfering in the following match and getting a pop from the crowd*

Umaga Vs Mick Foley – Hardcore Match
Mr Kennedy Vs Shawn Michaels
WWE United States Championship: MVP (c) Vs Matt Hardy – I Quit Match
Ric Flair Vs Triple H
World Heavyweight Championship: Edge (c) Vs The Undertaker
WWE Championship: Randy Orton (c) Vs Chris Jericho

Thanks for reading
Dave

Good stuff and I would definitely have to purchase this card.

That's all of this week's feedback from the regular readers, but now, I introduce a brand new dynamic to the column…

Thoughts From The Forums

After every WWE pay-per-view event, a thread will be set up in 411's forums where the forumers can give their opinions on the show and all responses will go here. This allows me to collect many views on the show and see what people thought of it.

First up is the thoughts of DTM:

- Never in a million years I'd have expected Taker vs. Batista to be better than Orton vs. HBK but that's exactly what happened. Now don't get me wrong: hbk/orton was a fun little match but I had the sense it belonged more on raw as a pre-ppv bout. plus the lowblow finish is just ghey and a pathetic excuse to end a match with no clear winner. it's the worse ripoff finish there can be simply because it's so sudden the moment the fans realize the match is screwed up the wrestlers are already under the shower.

- hbk has slowly gone from being the superstar who revolutionized the way main eventers where perceived in the '90s to this decade's version of a ted dibiase or jake roberts. you know, the good hand you can put in the main event against anyone to draw a buyrate but has zero chance of winning the big belt.

- so far taboo tuesday/cyber sunday is the ppv with the least appeal, at least for me. there's seemingly no storyline advancement and fans end up fucking up potential good matches (hardy/orton) in favor of main events we've already seen and are likely to see for months to come. why make the fans vote and PAY money to see hbk get hit in the balls without any revenge on orton? yep, that's the story I expected from the orton/hbk video package and yet I got another massacre on hbk. why bother then?

- taker vs batista on the other hand had me on the edge of my (sofa). great match with all the ups and downs of a title bout. too bad taker lost cleanly but hey, batista's got to sell books so...

- austin was a non-presence at all. had he not stunned foley and jbl he'd have made absoloutely no difference to the main event at all.

- kane can't catch a break.

- on a sidenote, halfway during the ppv I almost wanted to come on the board and open a "kayfabe thread" where we can talk like wrestling was real. I kinda miss pretending it is and sometimes am bored about having to discuss workrate and how the matches fared from a "smark" point of view.

- umaga vs HHH was pretty good. umaga is clearly the loser in this feud while hhh got a free title reign last month. HITC anyone?

- the ppv was pretty good for what it was. I really didn't expect much from a storyline advancement point of view. 3 matches were very good and the rest didn't suck at all. a solid 7 out of 10.

Next up is Slvapc;

Batista vs Taker was pretty awesome, i tought it will be broing and plodding, but the match was very fast paced.. and Taker lost clean.. woohoo

Kennedy vs Hardy was very sloppy..

HBK/RKO- was decent, but low blow ends a match??

others are all junk.. man Matt got really busted badly

Tolkoto aka 411's Mike Minotti chimes in with his thoughts;

I don't seem to like this PPV as much as most people. Everyone seemed to really like Taker vs Batista, but I thought it was one of those matches that tried to make up for a lack of good in-ring story telling by simply having a lot of near pin-falls. And I mean A LOT OF NEAR PIN FALLS.

Rey vs. Finlay was fun. Probably as good of an opener match as I've seen in awhile.

The Miz looked horrible in his match. He wasn't at the spots he needed to be several times during the match, didn't stiffen his body for the spring board suplex... there were just a lot of sloppy things about that match. I hope we keep Miz out of the main event for awhile now.

HBK vs Orton was good until the ending, but I'll be willing to overlook it if it builds up to another PPV match between the two.

Kennedy vs. Jeff was disappointing considering the great match they had on Raw not long ago.

Next up is CyberSocko;

I thought it was a pretty good show. The wrestling was MUCH better than the past handful of 'E shows, so that was good. There was nothing that really blew. The count out and DQ finishes kind of pissed me off, although I understand why they did them both. The DQ could have been done exactly the same way, but with a ref bump, then an RKO after the low blow. But that's just a little gripe. I thought the last two matches were awesome. Batista and UT was really good I thought, and I really didn't expect Dave to come out with the W once 'taker kicker out of the first Batista Bomb. The only thing about that match (and its minor) is that the stipulation we voted on really never came into play, so the concept was wasted.

I was a little saddened that Santino didn't come out to "open a can of the ass-whip" on Austin, but I guess that'll come at a later date.

Overall I thought it was a pretty good show.

One more thing, did anyone else notice that JR was being kind of a dick on more than one occasion tonight? Perhaps a heel turn is on the way?

SeeUserTitle gives his thoughts;

It was okay. Crowd sucked hard though.

I thought Finlay-Rey was okay.. Rey no selling a bit, Just a bad stip and what looked like a botched finish.

CM Punk vs. Miz was a fine match. Miz mostly works over the head.. Good match except for a botched crossbody.

Hardy-Kennedy was fine, pretty average.. Nothing to bad about it, Kennedy seemed kinda sloppy.

JBL is a god.

MVP-Kane was lame, Kane worked over MVP's ribs.. Finish was weak.

Orton-HBK was good. Nowhere near the PPV-esque Shawn Micheals matches.. but given his knee conditions, we can't really blame him. Pretty fun match.. kind of a weak finish though.

HHH-Umaga was another good match. Just a street fight all around.

Undertaker-Batista was great even though batista kind of no sold the shoulder.. The match saw both guys literally give each other hell.

Overall: It was an okay show, nothing special.. nothing to bad

Next up is 411 Forum legend Banger;

Taker vs Batista
I'm very glad they made this the main event (it god damn deserved it). Once again, both put on a great performance and just shows what great dance partners they are for each other.

-I have to admit that it's nice to see Batista going over clean, although I'm not a fan of him. This can set up a final gimmick match (plz hiac) at Survivor Series that may be the best match of them all.

Also great to see Austin not being too involved in the match.

Overall: ****

Umaga vs HHH
A *** 1/4 match that was very entertaining to say the least. Both men going back and forth throughout the match gave it a great go around for their final match of the feud (at least, i assume).
Umaga is on so many levels of awewsome and has what it takes to become main event material; it's just too bad with how savage his gimmick is that it will always hold hold him back from being a true headliner.

A few points:

-I'm honestly surprised with HHH's ego that he would allow Umaga to give him teh butt smash.
-I mark the fuck out every god damn time Umaga does the samoan drop.
-Dear Umaga, plz do not ever use the bear hug again in a street fight. kthnksbai
-omg omg omg Umaga's splah on HHH breaking the table was kick ass!!!
-Umaga takes the pedigree like a fucking champ.


Dear Vince, plz allow Umaga to win a match here and there. He has more talent than half the roster.

Love,
Banger

-Umaga clearly carried HHH throughout the match.
I'm not knocking HHH (i'm actually a big fan of him), but it's true... it's damn true.

Next we have the thoughts of markhenrysquashnumber928;

I thought this PPV was great. And the DQs seemed less ridiculous (well MVP should have beaten Kane imo) Also, Stone Cold stunning Mick Foley AND JBL was great. And Victoria as a sumo wrestler was hilarious.

Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay-It was like the previous Rey vs. Finlay matches but better. At first I was annoyed that technically all 3 choices were being used in the match, but it made the match better. (and they might as well since it's the last Cyber Sunday I guess!) I loved the ending because I thought Finlay was gonna win but the finish was so unexpected and cool...yeah! Was the cable in the way on purpose? Either way it was cool.
***1/2

CM Punk vs. Miz-I'm starting to actually enjoy the Miz. I was honestly expecting this match to be terrible. But, Miz did like 5X better than I thought he would. They apparently have great chemistry. In fact, I enjoyed it more than the first 3 ECW Punk vs. Morrison matches. Surprised me and for once I want the Miz to be ECW champion someday if he continues to be this good. Oh I didn't mention CM Punk did I? Well, he did great as he usually does!
***

Jeff Hardy vs. Mr. Kennedy-It was good I guess. Although I remember Mr. Kennedy being a much better wrestler before his suspension. Also, I'm glad they didn't waste time on his now extremely boring entrance.
**

MVP vs. Hane...I mean Kane-It was also pretty good I guess! Well...maybe not? The countout ending made no sense though. It would have been a great time for him to finally beat Kane before Matt Hardy wins the UST. ...I'm not good at reviewing the matches am I?
*3/4

Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton-It was a great match. Although I can't really think of anything to say about it. I just enjoyed it. Also, at least the DQ ending wasn't in the main event nor was this a rematch!
***1/2

Umaga vs. Triple H-Go kill yourselves haters/smarks. Really, your whining annoys me. ...anyway, this was HHH's best match since returning. Regardless of what everyone says about his "burying" he is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. It was a Street Fight and it was one hell of a fight! They didn't have a million insane spots or anything but there were enough that they added to an excellent wrestling match. The ending was perfect because of the sledgehammer. Everything was perfect and no he didn't no sell, go away smarks.
****1/2

Batista vs. The Undertaker w/special guest referee Stone Cold Steve Austin-This was as good as the Umaga vs. HHH match. These two have always had great matches and this was no different. If you've seen their Wrestlemania match...well ok this one is pretty similar. But it was perfect during the second half of the matches when I couldn't tell who the fans were cheering for. (both I guess? I dunno!) Also, Batista finally beat the Undertaker. Even if it did take 2 Batista Bombs.
****1/2


9/10 I would have given it an 8.5/10 but because of many things (like Matt Hardy's injury and the fact that this was Cyber Sunday) it's a 9/10.

And finally we have Baker 223;

I only caught the last three matches at a sports bar because I had to work 'til nine.

HBK-Orton wasn't bad...but it wasn't great either. I was disappointed with another DQ ending on PPV (even though I called it) since this was the match I wanted to see most. Turns it out didn't need to steal the show after all.

Umaga-HHH was really good. With the Orton match at No Mercy, and this battle with Umaga, it looks like Trips is back in top form. Matches like this are why I never bitch about HHH "holding guys back" (If you want to call going toe to toe with a WWE legend for about 20 minutes in a street fight being "held back" anyway). Umaga played the monster superbly just as he did against Cena and Jeff Hardy earlier in the year. The splash through the table is an awesome spot. Umaga convinced me again last night that he's one of the better guys on the roster. I'd put this in my top 15 matches for the year.

Undertaker-Batista was even better. Am I the only one who thinks UT-Dave is WWE's in-ring feud of the year? If you would have told me last year that 'Taker and Batista would have a better series of matches then Joe and Angle I'd have thought you were nuts. Turns out that's exactly what happened. Batista sucks against everybody else but he's gold whenever he faces 'Taker. The last five minutes had me, and the entire bar, on the edge of our seats. I was surprised as hell to see Batista hit the 2nd Power Bomb for the clean victory. These two just have great chemistry together and it looks like we'll be getting Batista-'Taker again at Survivor Series. I fully approve.

The Austin, Foley, JBL stuff was good too.

I was kicking myself after the show for not going to this since DC isn't too far away. Last year, I miss 'Taker-Angle at NWO. This year I miss two really strong matches. Oh well.

I'd like to thank all the forumers who took the time to let us know what they thought of the show. Going through everyone's opinions, the following trends are obvious;

Batista/Taker was match of the night.
The DQ and count out finishes left something of a bad taste in people's mouths.
Umaga vs. Triple H was great.
General reviews of the show range from good to amazing.

I'll agree with pretty much all of this.

Thoughts From The Forums will be back in a few weeks' time for Survivor Series!

And that's me done for another week. Join me in 7 days when I'll be looking at another tremendously intriguing, as of now undetermined, aspect of the wonderful world of pro wrestling!