411 Fact or Fiction 12.20.07: JBL vs. Jericho, ROH vs. TNA, Non-Finishes at Armageddon and More!

Posted by Larry Csonka on 12.20.2007

Week ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY-SEVEN features Theo Fraser, Scott Slimmer and discussion of TNA running house shows head to head against ROH!

Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week, two 411 writers go to battle as Theo Fraser enters the 411 Arena to do battle with Scott Slimmer!

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Let's get to it!

1. While Armageddon featured good in ring performances, the two non-finishes negatively affected the card.

Theo Fraser : FACT. It was a really enjoyable pay-per-view from a wrestling standpoint, but there's no denying that the stale booking of these non-finishes tarnished the overall show. It's just beginning to get really tiring; the same kind of DQs every month, and always in important title matches. When used sparingly, the DQ finish can be extremely effective, and can help put over both competitors in the right context. But the WWE seems to use it as a go-to finish whenever they want to prolong a feud. It's lazy booking, and considering the fact that we've seen it so many times in just the last few months meant that it really was a detriment to the Armageddon pay-per-view as a whole. And that's a great shame; MVP and Mysterio delivered a highly entertaining contest on Smackdown a short while ago, which featured a clean finish, so I felt sure that this would be a classic US title defense, and one that would really help elevate MVP whilst we wait for the return of Matt Hardy. But no, the champion was counted out, and I'll admit to feeling slightly cheated. I paid to see that match, and was denied a finish. You can't do that to your fans; if it happens too often, they'll be conditioned into being disappointed, and sooner or later they will simply stop buying pay-per-views. Obviously, I'm being melodramatic, and that's pretty much the worst-case scenario, but that's the risk you run when you pull this kind of shit so frequently.

Scott Slimmer: FACT. I'm almost hesitant to say anything more on this subject, because I think everybody is already sick of hearing me bitch and moan about non-finishes on pay-per-view. So I'll try to be brief. FACT. FACT. FACT… and, oh yeah, FACT. Non-finishes have no freaking business on pay-per-view. You can talk all you want about episodic storytelling and building towards the next show, but that's why WWE has five hours of original television programming each week. Television programming needs to build towards pay-per-view, not the other way around. The most basic, fundamental goal of a pay-per-view should be to showcase the best wrestling matches a promotion can offer. And any booking decision that subverts that goal is nothing short of asinine. If I pay forty bucks… FORTY FREAKING BUCKS… for a pay-per-view, then I damn well better see wrestlers get in the ring, kick each other's ass, and figure out who's the better man. At least on Heat we always get a 1-2-3…

Score: 1 for 1


2. JBL returning to the ring is a smart idea.

Theo Fraser : FICTION. At times, JBL really brought his A-game in the ring, and was a credit to the Smackdown main event scene. At other times, he looked out of shape and frequently got blown up, which looked bad when he went on to go over his highly conditioned opponent. But I'm not here to discuss his in-ring ability. The fact of the matter is, JBL would be another main event superstar on either show, and in the absence of guys like John Cena and Bobby Lashley, that can never be a bad thing. My dispute with JBL making a return to the ring is the fact that we would be denied his true talent in this world, the gift of the gab, because he is quite simply a COMMENTATING GAWD! I don't think anyone would disagree with the notion that JBL has truly found his calling as a commentator. It's obviously down to the individual talent at the end of the day, but JBL has helped put over a ton of Smackdown stars over the past year. Gregory Helms, Matt Hardy, London & Kendrick, MVP...these are all examples of guys that have benefited from JBL having a headset. Right now, he is the voice of Smackdown, and I fear that a departure from his announcing role would be another significant blow to the Friday night B-show, which is still feeling the repercussions of the draft back in June. In my opinion, John Bradshaw Layfield is infinitely more entertaining at the announcer's desk than he was in the ring, and it would be a real shame to waste that talent. Whilst I respect JBL's obvious desire and itch to get back in the ring, I have to say no, it's not a smart idea. Play to your strengths, Mr. Bradshaw, and stay on the mic.

Scott Slimmer : FICTION. JBL returning to the ring is a bad idea for two reasons. First, having JBL return to the ring means wasting the incredible talent that he has shown as a commentator. Even in his prime JBL was never the most gifted in-ring performer, and his time away from the ring will surely have decreased whatever physical prowess he once had. However, JBL has become arguably the most versatile and entertaining commentator in the industry today, and it would be a shame for WWE to throw away their best commentator just to gain a past-his-prime mid-card wrestler. Second, WWE needs to build the next generation of stars instead of relying on former stars who can no longer perform at the highest level. Look, I have absolutely no problem with continuing to book established stars like Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair in high profile matches, because both of those guys can still out-perform the vast majority of the roster. But I do have a problem with booking someone like JBL in high profile matches when there are a number of more talented wrestlers floundering lower on the card. The bottom line is that having JBL return to the ring seems like something that TNA would think is a smart idea. And I don't mean that as a compliment.

Score: 2 for 2


3. Setting the Major Brothers up with Edge is a great way to help get the young team over.

Theo Fraser : FACT. These guys were doing absolutely nothing on their own, so it's good to see fresh talent get a shot at making a name for themselves. I'm not sure it's quite such a good move for Edge, as he functions so well on his own, but at least it fits with his whole "chicken shit heel" persona. Brett & Brian can't sit back and let Edge do all the work, however. They've really got to pull their weight, both in the ring and outside of it. Workrate-wise, they're still pretty green, but the experience of being on Smackdown has been good for them, and I've seen a gradual improvement as the months have gone by. What we haven't seen from them is any kind of personality, so it will be interesting to see how they run with this new angle. Being associated with Edge, they're bound to get over one-way or another; it's down to them to determine how much. Having said that, this kind of thing doesn't always work. Mark Jindrak and Luther Reigns were paired with Kurt Frickin' Angle, and look where it got them! Still, at this early stage, I'm holding out hope.

Scott Slimmer : FACT. I like the Major Brothers. I really do. But I've got to tell you, sometimes it's a fight. They seem like they've got a ton of potential, but up to this point they've just been relentlessly vanilla. And all the talent in the world won't get you anywhere if the fans keep forgetting that you're even on the roster. Enter Edge. (And yes, the old ECW mark / Metallica fan inside me did just cry a little bit there…) Anyway, Edge literally does have enough charisma for three men, and there are a ton of fun ways that he could use his two newest Edge Heads. Of course, the Major Brothers still have to step up to the plate and really push themselves to excel in their new role. Because for every Team Angle (who I am counting as a success story despite their subsequent lack thereof), there's also a Basham Brothers (who I had to look up on Wikipedia because I remembered there being a tag team in JBL's Cabinet but couldn't for the life of me actually recall). Setting the Major Brothers up with Edge provides them with a great opportunity to get over, but at the end of the day they still need to do the work themselves.

Score: 3 for 3

---SWITCH~!---

4. TNA running house shows head to head against ROH is not a smart business move.

Scott Slimmer : FICTION. The real question here is how I explain my answer without pissing off both the TNA fans and the ROH fans. TNA and ROH are running head-to-head in Dayton, OH and Long Island, NY. I'm guessing that each show will draw about a thousand fans. That might be a bit low for the TNA show, but it's probably pretty close for the ROH show. The greater Dayton metropolitan area has almost a million residents, while Long island has almost eight million residents. I don't think TNA is going to have a hard time finding a thousand fans who weren't planning on going to the ROH show. ROH simply has a fan base distinct from that of WWE and TNA, and that's why there's not a problem with WWE or TNA running a show head-to-head with a TNA show. Some people might say that TNA and ROH share the diehard wresting fan base, but it's just hard for me to see how any fan who loves ROH could also still love TNA after all of the foolishness we've seen from them in 2007. It would probably be a mistake for TNA to run a show in Orlando head-to-head with WrestleMania 24. But running shows in Dayton and Long Island head-to-head with ROH? Not a problem.

Theo Fraser : FACT. Let's face it, TNA still doesn't have that ‘casual' audience that WWE has. Every week, TNA pulls in the 1.0 rating or thereabouts, and it rarely changes. There are a core set of fans that tune in to Impact each week, and whilst I'm sure TNA management wouldn't like to admit it, a good portion of those fans are still your typical Indy wrestling fan. That's even truer of a house show, where you are pretty much guaranteed some good wrestling, as opposed to all the angles and promos that take up so much TV time. My point is, by TNA choosing to run head to head with ROH, they are basically fighting for the same demographic of fans. That is not a smart business move by any stretch of the imagination. In my experience, ROH fans are very loyal to the promotion, so there's no way they'd pick a TNA event over ROH. And whilst many ROHbots will gladly express their hate for TNA, there's no denying that there is a significant number of other fans who would happily go to a TNA show to see ROH alumni such as Samoa Joe, Alex Shelley, Christopher Daniels and the like. It might not be a significant loss for the company, but TNA will certainly do some damage to themselves in the way of ticket sales by choosing to run head to head with another promotion that targets a similar audience.

Score: 3 for 4


5. The Global Impact special that TNA will run in January will be a refreshing change in the normal wrestling programming offered through out the week.

Scott Slimmer : FACT. I don't watch much TNA. I don't watch much puro. But I'm already planning to go out of my way to make sure that I see the Global Impact special. Every match except for the IWGP Tag Team Championship Match will feature at least one wrestler that I've never seen perform, and I'm guessing that also holds true for many North American wrestling fans. TNA has always claimed to be the alternative to WWE, but for most of 2007 they've only been a second-rate carbon copy. But showcasing Japanese wrestlers at a Japanese show is something that you'd never see from WWE. And thus it may be just what TNA needs to begin to redefine itself in 2008.

Theo Fraser : FACT. It's not often we get to see legitimate inter-promotional matches on free TV, so this will be quite the spectacle, no doubt. Obviously, not all the matches taking place at the New Japan Tokyo Dome event will make the one-hour show, but I'd imagine the Angle/Nagata Fake IWGP title match will main event in full, and then we'll see clipped versions of Tomko & Bernard vs. the Steiners, the Inoue-Daniels IWGP Jr. Heavyweight title bout, and the 6 man tag featuring Cage, Styles and Petey Williams taking on Minoru, Milano Collection AT and Prince Devitt. Personally, I'm really looking forward to the show, as we're guaranteed some fine wrestling action, and not the usual cram-the-entire-roster-into-one-segment clusterfuck we've seen on previous Impact Specials. If this performs well in the ratings department, we're sure to see another TNA vs. IWGP card down the line, and maybe even a couple of talent exchanges for the big shows. I've got high hopes for this; let's hope all the talent involved prove me right.

Score: 4 for 5


6. TNA should not bring back Sting for another year.

Scott Slimmer : FICTION. TNA should bring back Sting for another year for two reasons. First, Sting is a legitimate legend. He's not a former mid-carder with a bit of name recognition like some of the other "stars" that TNA has signed. No, Sting truly is a big name in professional wrestling, and he's a big name that can still put on entertaining, high quality matches. His MOTYC days may be behind him, but he's still fundamentally solid and technically sound. Keeping Sting on the TNA roster gives TNA some much needed credibility and also gives them another go-to guy who can always deliver a good match. Second, TNA needs to keep Sting away from WWE. Many people have said that they would love to see Sting face off against Ric Flair at WrestleMania 24, and I absolutely agree with them. I'm sure WWE would love to have Sting available for a Hall of Fame induction and a DVD career retrospective. But that should be the last thing that TNA wants to see happen. We know that WWE has no problem with retaining talent just so that they won't sign with TNA. This is one case where TNA needs to give WWE a taste of their own medicine.

Theo Fraser : FACT. But only just. This is a really tough one to call actually. On the one hand, Sting has more than proved his worth in his most recent run with the company, frequently pulling out high profile matches we didn't think he had in him. He delivered in the ring, and helped put over a fair share of homegrown talent, most notably Abyss, and I feel that there is a lot better he could do for the company. BUT at the end of the day, he didn't pull in a new audience. As far as I know, people aren't tuning in to Impact just to see Sting. Whenever I scour the wrestling boards, I see hundreds of posts crying out for more X-division action, lamenting the burial of guys like the Motor City Machine Guns or "Black Machismo" Jay Lethal. With Sting gone, I'd like to believe that some of these guys would get more of a chance to stand in the spotlight and at least get a shot at the main event scene. My only worry is the fact that if TNA don't sign Sting to a new contact, they'll have a HELL of a lot of money floating around, and I'm worried they'll go and sign ANOTHER blast-from-the-past to take up precious TV time; maybe they'll finally make that Goldberg deal they've been looking for so long. *shudders* In all seriousness, I'd like Sting to stick around backstage, maybe as an agent to help out the younger guys, and maybe even to make the odd on-screen appearance when its absolutely necessary, but otherwise I'd let the guy go out on his own terms whilst he still can.

Score: 4 for 6


These two finish 4 for 6! Come on back next week for more of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition!