Column of Honor-Special Editon 1.12.08: Why the Age of the Fall is the Decay of RIng of Honor
Posted by Jerome Cusson on 01.12.2008
Age of the Fall is one of the most interesting and controversial groups in ROH history. See why they have hurt ROH and get a detailed account on why this group has no business having such a plush spot in Ring of Honor.
The following is the opinion of me, Jerome Cusson, and only me. They are not a reflection of what Ari Berenstein's opinions are, but since Ari usually produces two parts anyway and he had a special edition last week, I figured I should get my own two cents in as well about what has become my least favorite angle ROH has ever run..
On September 15th, The Briscoes were busy celebrating the end of their epic feud with Kevin Steen and El Generico. They had battled in an epic ladder match, maybe one of the best matches and feuds in ROH history. Then the screaming started. A group of fans decked in black made their way to the front. Jimmy Jacobs, decked out in white, hit the ring with a new look Lacey. Coming from the other side was a returning Necro Butcher and Tyler Black. This was "The Age of the Fall" and they were now ready to spread their message.
For weeks, Project 161 had been making its' presence felt at live shows. Whether it was leaving flyers in Long Island and Edison, or interrupting two shows in the middle of August, Project 161 was real. Speculation ran rampant about who could be involved. Everyone from Mike Quackenbush to Eddie Kingston to Alex Shelley to even Christopher Daniels were being thrown out there as possible leaders for this new group.
Jimmy Jacobs' name was being bandied about, but this angle seemed way too big and too historic. This was going to be another CZW or another Prophecy angle. On September 15th, an angle that seemed to have so much potential turned out to be just another group involving itself in faction warfare. Jay Briscoe was hung by the leg from the same spot as the tag belts had been just a few minutes before. If that wasn't disturbing enough, considering all of the things that happened in professional wrestling during 2007, blood dripped onto Jacobs as he cut his introductory promo.
In his introductory promo, he laid out the supposed missions of his new group, now calling itself "The Age of the Fall." Ignoring the fact that this is a horrible name and sounds like a bad Brad Pitt movie, you could barely hear what he was saying because of all the crowd chatter. Also, for one of the rare times in the history of the company, a "boring" chant broke out and no one shouted it down. It was an auspicious and very disappointing start as Jacobs' message sounded very jumbled and unclear.
What should have been the end of the group's night turned out to be just the beginning. Despite the fact that he just debuted that night, Tyler Black managed to get booked against Jack Evans in a singles match. For an outsider who wants to help participate destroy ROH, he sure knew how to get an official's ear and get a match. Oh, and what self-respecting wrestling outsider, at least on their first night, just simply comes down the aisle like every other wrestler? Well, Tyler Black did. The supposed match lasted about two minutes, before Jacobs and Necro (also coming down the aisle) ran in and all three beat up Evans. Irish Airborne made their way down to save Evans, and we had a six-man tag.
ROH couldn't leave well enough alone. "The Age of the Fall" had a rough enough debut. Now, they immediately had to insert themselves into two feuds. It was at the next couple of shows where announcers Lenny Leonard and Dave Prazak made it clear that this is not a group, but a revolution. Well if they're not a group, why are they feuding with all the other groups? If they're not the same as every other group, why do they conveniently only have three male members just like every other faction? Now, let's break this group down. First let's look at their message, then the members, and finally a look at why them winning the tag straps was not the solution to a stale Briscoes title run.
The Revolution will not be televised…just inserted on ROH DVDs
One of the most infamous videos "The Age of the Fall" has put on their website is a scene showing a Toys ‘R' Us right next to a strip club. Jacobs and Black waxed nostalgia about being kids and going to their favorite toy store. This toy store being next to a gentlemen's club is a sign of how bad our society has become. Take a few seconds before reading on about the problem with their argument. Go ahead. It shouldn't take long.
Toys ‘R' Us is a corporation and a symbol of capitalism in this country. It's a big-box retailer that promotes toys to kids of parents who probably couldn't afford to buy them. That strip club is likely owned by some gentlemen from the area just trying to make ends meet. That's to say nothing of the strippers themselves, who may also be raising a child or trying to pay their way through school. If you're thinking, "You'd rather your child support a strip club then a toy store," then you're wrong. Believe me, I'd rather not expose kids to the stereotype of the general seediness and desperation that strip clubs carry.
Ultimately, I'd rather have my child read a book and not live in Detroit, which was the site of this unfortunate mismatch. The fundamental problem with this group is not only the hypocrisy, but the fact that they have been so unclear about what they are revolting against. I'll give you another example.
In Philadelphia, they went around and visited some of the historical sites: The Liberty Bell and Independence Hall. They talked about the great American Revolution and how all these different sites now being tourist traps. Okay, that's fine. What's not fine is a group of so-called Revolutionaries using a group of white men who enslaved a group of people as an example of the kind of revolution they want to have. Also, this is a completely different type of revolution. See, those old white men could have cared less about anything, save for the fact that they were being taxed by the big, bad Brits.
If "The Age of the Fall" is indeed revolting against all the evils of society, what kind of action are they or we going to take? Brawling with The Vulture Squad and The Briscoes doesn't do anything except sell more DVDs for the company they supposedly hate. And if ROH really doesn't want to endorse the group and wants nothing to do with them, stop airing all these videos on the DVD and stop promoting the website. At least when WCW has the NWO, they covered their asses by saying that NWO-related propaganda was bought and paid for, like any other commercial. I could go on, but I want to talk about the actual members a little bit. Of course, we'll start at the top.
Jimmy Jacobs
Here's another moment for you to consider. How many singles matches has Jimmy Jacobs had in the last year, that did not involve some sort of weapon, or were not part of a gimmick-type match? I'll grant you the fact that he spent much of this year on the shelf with a knee injury, but he did wrestle the first three months of 2007 and has been back since August. I can count the number on one hand, the biggest of which was a match against Chris Hero at Motor City Madness 2007, and if you ask me, that was one of the worst matches ROH put on that year.
Even if you grant him the fact that he was still coming back from a knee injury, Jimmy Jacobs has a hard time generating any sort of heel heat without a weapon in his hand. I'll go so far as to say he has trouble having a good match as a heel without a chair or spike. Even his epic match with Bryan Danielson saw Jacobs use the spike. It might not be noticeable to the naked eye and to the fans who love Jacobs so much, but I really noticed it and thought about it as this angle began.
The promos at the beginning of the year were spectacular. As much as I criticize his use of weapons, the match with B.J. Whitmer had a grea,t epic feeling. Also, I will never criticize someone who's given so much of himself for the sport. I'm not accusing him of tanking matches. I just don't think he has the ability to go to the next level as a main eventer, or representing ROH as the world champion.
Jimmy Jacobs has also spent much of the last year primarily as a loner. The last time we saw him before coming back from injury, he had a sour look on his face after finally getting with Lacey. The next time, he's escorting Lacey out to a match. Then when he is ready to come back, he's acting like a babyface and slapping hands with the fans. If you're so bitter at ROH and the world, why do you fake being happy? Isn't this the very thing your group opposes?
The final point is I just don't buy Jacobs as a leader. Since he has been a loner and what one could consider "emo," him leading this group doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The way he's acting and wrestling, he's starting to come out like a ripoff of Raven. The biggest difference is Raven had someone to feud with and a reason to be angry. Paul Heyman's greatest strength was storytelling and being able to have things make sense. The story of Jimmy Jacobs was going very well and evolving into one of the best characters ever. Because Jacobs has never talked about why he had such a look on his face after his night with Lacey, and because he hasn't discussed his relationship with Necro and Tyler, Jacobs has made for a terrible leader.
The Necro Butcher
The Necro Butcher has a passionate group of followers. Let's just say I'm not one of them. If people want to enjoy "Death Matches," go right ahead. I don't want this type of match or this type of wrestler in Ring of Honor. Variety in matches is always good, but there are guys who can actually wrestle that can have these matches without having someone like Necro involved. Someone who wrestles and acts like he does has no place in ROH if you ask me, especially if ROH wants to become more mainstream and accepted by the general wrestling population.
This has nothing to do with ROH selling out. ROH was doing just fine with the athletes they had before they decided to involve The Necro Butcher in a group that ROH clearly wants to have an impact through most of 2008. Necro fit right into the ROH/CZW because he was wrestling as a CZW wrestler, and his violent style worked because he wasn't wrestling on every show and didn't get exposed.
Since ROH runs so many shows and Necro plays such a prominent role, he's become very exposed. All of his matches seem to fall into a very familiar pattern, moreso than everyone on the roster because he either doesn't know or doesn't use professional wrestling skills to give himself a variety of moves to how he works. I must have seen the bodyslam onto a chair, and the tiger driver into the chair, and the backbreaker onto the backs of two chairs on every show since October. I'm kinda tired of it. And I'm tired of talking about him, so let's move on to something else.
Tyler Black
Since Tyler Black is the newest member of the roster, I'm going to go easy on him. I've been impressed with his work in WSX, and the limited amount of IWA-MS shows I've seen him wrestle on. Black has looked a little uncomfortable during "The Age of the Fall" videos. Why this is, I don't know. I like his look, his movement in the ring, and his actual move set. To me, the quicker he is separated from the group, the better off he will be.
The one thing I will criticize is how he was brought into the company. If you follow independent wrestling, then you know Jacobs and Black are partners across the independent scene. From all indications, they're a darn good one too. If you're a fan who is more of a casual fan or only follows ROH, then how would you know about this? Of course there are a lot of fans who don't live in the ROH bubble. This, however, is the equivalent of watching The Empire Strikes Back without hearing about what happened in Star Wars. You might be able to appreciate everything that's happening and enjoy the movie, but you'll be confused as to what the hell is going on.
Part of good storytelling is always doing your best to explain things, leaving as few holes in the plot as possible. The smaller details are what make a really good wrestling company better than WWE or TNA. Without even acknowledging the other companies, Jacobs and Black could cut promos talking about their friendship over the years. Also, an explanation as to why and how Jacobs brought Black into ROH as a member of "The Age of the Fall" would be a much-needed touch, so fans who live in the bubble can be enlightened and not left without a light switch. Plus, since they have the tag team championships now, it might actually give the fans a reason to care. Speaking of those belts…
The Tag Team Title Situation
Gabe Sapolsky, as reported in the Wrestling Observer, felt The Briscoes were getting stale as tag team champions. This apparently was his justification for giving "The Age of the Fall" the belts. The fact that this team doesn't seem to generate much heat either way seems to go against the theory of ROH giving the fans what they want. I've been to live shows and watched the DVDs very carefully to listen to the response given to this group. They don't seem to be drawing the kind of heat needed for a really big heel team.
By contrast, Kevin Steen and El Generico drew a huge ovation after their match with The Briscoes back in February. The group also drew major heat when Steen went after Mark Briscoe's head. The hanging, the placing of Mark Briscoe's body in barbwire, all the videos, and all the street fights feel like it's just being done for shock value and a plea for attention. Kevin Steen dropping Mark Briscoe two weeks after the almost tragic incident in Detroit felt so real because everyone knew it was real. Mark Briscoe's parents pleading with Mark not to go in the ring is real, genuine emotion. How Kevin Steen and El Generico did not earn a single title reign during their feud of the year candidate with The Briscoes is a mystery to me.
Even the No Remorse Corps could have used a run with the tag team titles. They've finally come into their own and gained some chemistry with each. See Survival of the Fittest for a good example, as they try to take Las Vegas over, but won't let Davey Richards have any fun. There was no rhyme or reason for their first tag team title match against the Briscoes at Glory By Honor VI except to have "Age of the Fall" come out after the match and have a huge brawl. Then, somehow they received two more title chances on Pay-Per-View of all places. If the NRC could have been given additional promo time about how they killed "The Resilliance" and have been dominant during the "Faction Warfare," they would have made great champions. Unlike the forced AOTF/Vulture Squad feud, the No Remorse Corps has immediate heat with The Vulture Squad. There's Rocky Romero and Julius Smokes' relationship which goes back to "The Rottweilers, and has been addressed only once since Romero returned to regular competition. There's Jack Evans needing back-up to help defeat his own former stablemate Roderick Strong. Plus, the NRC and Briscoes would have been an interesting dynamic, since the NRC has the one-man advantage.
Giving Jacobs and Black the belt feels like ROH trying to use the belts to get heat on the wrestlers, instead of the other way around, like it should be.
Going Home… Again
As I end this long commentary about my problems with "The Age of the Fall," I want to make it clear that I still love this company. Seeing Misawa wrestle for the first time was a great pleasure. The Austin Aries/Bryan Danielson feud still proves that ROH remains the best wrestling company in the world. All three of the pay-per-views that have aired are contenders for the best televised wrestling shows this year. However, this entire storyline is a distraction, and to me, a real black mark for the company.
When you combine the lack of good storytelling and the explanation of the group's incomplete message on their being in ROH, you end up with a bad angle. Period. End of Story. And if this angle continues to be shoved down my throat, I will re-consider whether I go to live shows and purchase DVDs on a regular business. "The Age of the Fall" isn't the only problem I have with ROH, just the biggest. After almost 3,000 words though, I'll save my other issues for another time.
I encourage comments of course, but I really want anyone who disagrees with me to e-mail me at jcusson07@gmail.com. I know this faction is the source of great debate among fans, and I want feedback very badly. If you like what's going on, tell me. Also, if you agree with me, I want to know if there are other reasons I may have missed or points I could have emphasized more.
Thanks everyone for reading and be sure to tune in next week as Ari returns with a look at Edison amongst other things. Also, be sure to check out some of my other reviews here on 411.
Posted By: Guest#1314 (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 06:13 PM
I always assumed that their message was not accepting whatever is just placed (by society) in front of you. Hence the comments about the Briscoes being conditioned to be stars, the Wal-Marts popping up everywhere, the cookie cutter houses as opposed to actual architecture and strip clubs being around a Toys R Us. Not the typical "us against the evil corporations" rhetoric. I think this actually stemed nicely from Jacobs earlier interviews in the year when he talked about losing his innocence. It seems his point is that the whole World has lost it's innocence by refusing to think outside of what society tells them to.
Second of all, I think that it hurts your message when you say something that negative about what most Americans would consider the "good guys". 411, the last I recall, is mainly read and written by people from the U.S., so it might not be wise to antagonize those beliefs. I don't want to get into a debate over the subject as this isn't the place (wrestling website and all), but feel that remark was unneccessary for your point.
Last of all, Jacobs is a great speaker, can wrestle great matches (especially the hardcore variety and that fits in well with the gimmick)and can still tell a story well both in and out of the ring. Necro and Tyler are perfect for their roles. Maybe the fact that you can accept them in this positions would prove "their points" about people only accepting what they are told to accept valid.
Posted By: guest#04221 (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 06:20 PM
I was at the ROH show last night and while Necro Butcher's match with Steen wasn't the best on the card, it was certainly the most fun to watch. Guys like Aries and Strong can wrestle as logically as they want but that doesn't mean it is any fun to watch.
Posted By: Konrad (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 06:33 PM
I'd rather have a shitty angle than waste my life typing 3K words on why a wrestling angle sucks. Good grief.
Posted By: Guest#6967 (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 06:42 PM
Yeah. No place for Necro in ROH. Why would we want an actual good character when we can just get Bland Indy Generic Guy No. 57 who does lots of swank MOVEZ!!11?
Posted By: Guest#5368 (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 06:47 PM
yeah, nevermind the fact that all 3 offer something unique to the roster. this whole column was biased garbage.
Posted By: hellboysetsfire (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 07:06 PM
Look, I agree and disagree. I understand what you're getting at, but in the last couple of weeks there has been some major hating on ROH. The end of your column, where you mention you might re-consider going to live events or purchasing dvd's if this story continues just comes off as a wrestling fan whose never satisfied. I mean, you claim that this is just one bad angle. So what? You bailing on the promotion over that is ridiculous and NOT what it needs. Every promotion has bad angles from time to time, ROH not quite as often as others in my opinion, and I suppose it is because ROH fans expect more from them, but every time they run a bad angle, people throw a fit. Get over it, it's going to happen. The Age of the Fall aren't the only wrestlers on the shows. There's plenty more to enjoy if you don't appreciate this angle, that should make any ROH fan feel that this is one of the top promotions going today. If you're going to consider not watching ROH as frequently and not supporting it as much because of one bad angle, then you're no better than the fans Ari spoke of last week.
Posted By: rob (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 07:41 PM
A real interesting look into the situation.
Definitely brought forth some very interesting points regrading the lack of heat for Age of the Fall.
Excellent column
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 07:52 PM
Your rant against Necro makes you sound like such a mark. Yep, mainstream society isn't going to accept a bunch of guys who wear underwear and pretend to beat each other up because there's a crazy redneck with no shoes! The children!
Give me a break. Judging by the reaction from the Philly crowd at GBH, Necro most definitely has a place. He's a terrific brawler and shows tremendous psychology in that environment.
That's right... psychology doesn't mean performing swank technical moves, it means telling a story, something Necro does extremely effectively.
Posted By: Jeremy (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 08:21 PM
man, they're not supposed to be liked by everyone. when i hate on randy orton people can say thats just cause he's a heel, but no its because he sucks as a wrestler. the AOtF can wrestle like motherfuckers and they are heels. you can hate them, but as long as they can have good matches fuckit. the NRC can wrestle great, but really have no personalities. So that's what we have here some well acting heels heeling it up and it gets under your skin enjoy it. ROH could have a randy orton shoved down your throat as the ROH champ.
Posted By: lookey lou (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 08:49 PM
I agree that the last point about not going to shows over one angle pushes what's already a pretty poor argument into whiney territory.
Posted By: Scott (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 09:53 PM
I'm pretty sure Mr. Jacobs explained that Black wouldn't be allowed an oppertunity at ROH, so they forced him in.
You're angry and it's upsetting me :[
Posted By: Registered (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 09:58 PM
Jerome, if there is one thing that you may notice from your column its that on 411 you CANT offend the RoHbots. They are a weird breed.
I agree that Tyler Black is very good. He has the look and everything going for him, he reminds me of when Randy Orton was in Evolution.
Necro Butcher... anything connected with CZW has an * next to it.
Good column
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on January 12, 2008 at 10:45 PM
I expect this to column to be ripped apart and begged to be destroyed on the AotF blog soon.
Posted By: Kif (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 01:03 AM
the AotF angle and Jimmy's introductory promo was what turned me from a very casual ROH fan in to a regular follower. it succeeded in drawing me in at least.
Posted By: Melt (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 01:45 AM
I like that the ROH fans commenting are falling over themselves to defend Necro, when 2 years ago they were chanting "Backyard Wrestling" at him at ROH shows. I like Necro in that Bruiser Brody kinda way. You can see him once every few months and be satisfied, but once you see a lot of his work, you realise he's a terrible worker. I agree with a lot of stuff here, but I don't think ROH has pushed any other teams well enough to get the belts, at least Jacobs/Black are a fun team to watch. Steen/Generico probably wouldn't have worked because where do they go after winning the belts. My wish is that Aries does a big turn and joins Roddy in the NRC to reform my favorite tag team.
Posted By: Sean (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 02:08 AM
This kid is absolutely whats wrong with Ring of Honor. I used to go so far out of my way to defend the IWC when people would slag it, but now I don't even know why I read this crap anymore.
Posted By: Yikes (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 02:39 AM
The mark got worked, hahahahahahahahahaha its pro wrestling grow up and chill out.
Posted By: Hahahahaha (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 09:07 AM
The other column was alright but after this I have to say hurry back Ari. That totally deflated me on something that I'd been pumped about beforehand.
Posted By: Col (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 03:06 PM
Awww....poor ROH fans. Someone finally points out a negative point about ROH and you flip your crap. Can't handle what you dish out? Its ok, your bias clouds you.
Posted By: Joel (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 05:46 PM
First off, I'd like to say that it's nice to hear some negative responses to ROH. For the past 4 years, smart marks have been kissing this place's butt like it's going to be the answer to wrestling, and then fall in line and take whatever's given to them, ironically, not unlike the TNA and WWE fans they so harshly criticize and snub.
I don't hate ROH, it has it's place in wrestling, but by no means should it be considered such a big deal that it's mentioned in MotY columns, and taking number one spots. I'm not saying that the wrestling isn't in league with WWE or TNA, but it's an indy, and about 5% of wrestling fans ACTUALLY know about it, and less actually follow it.
All I'm saying is quit busting this man's chops for giving some constructive criticisms and stating his point of view. ROH needs this, it needs to be criticized in positive and negative lights in order for it to get better.
With that being said, I like the Age of the Fall, and I do agree that he's missing the point of the faction. It's not simply some Raven-esc flock, although admittedly it's not far from it. AotF do have their own ideals, which I can respect as somewhat (and this is a stretch) individualistic in comparrison to any other psudo-punk angle before it.
With THAT being said, seriously? Necro Butcher? A promotion that prides itself on good wrestling, and a fanbase that prides itself on being wrestling savvy accepts Necro into the fold? It just proves how big of sheeps ROH fans are becoming.
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on January 13, 2008 at 05:48 PM
As big of an ROH Fan I am, its nice to see a fellow follower have major problems with an angle. After the great buildup with Project 161, Age of the Fall has fallen kind of flat. Is it the decay of ROH? I don't think so, but the angle has been underwhelming.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on January 14, 2008 at 12:39 AM
How big sheeps they're becoming? They've always been sheep. It's like a standard procedure with the 'bots. Look at Jimmy Rave. When he was being pushed, he was touted as one of the best guys on the indy scene, and when anyone said he sucked or pointed out how even Danielson didn't have a good match with him, they were just told they were looking for things that weren't there. Now that Rave has left ROH the tune became that he sucked and he's always sucked.
Posted By: Mike Campbell (Registered) on January 14, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Danielson had a very good match with Rave at 4th Anniversary Show and to be honest there have always been those on the message boards that have thought Rave sucked in the ring, it didn't start because he left for TNA. Rave had two big periods of being a great heel, The Embassy period and then the three month period where the heel hook was built as his super submission.
As far as AotF, I think people were expecting more of what they got in the initial build, that is the Project 161 intrigue. That is a part of why it feels flat, that they have become just a part of the storylines and just another faction, as opposed to being built up as a super outside force. This is a part of Jerome's criticism with which I agree, that even though AotF professes to be a revolution at this point they are perceived just as much a part of ROH and the "system". Finally as far as Necro Butcher being accepted, I think it actually speaks to the ability of wrestlers to WIN over a crowd due to a fantastic character. To do Necro's character is harder work than it appears, because it harkens back to the old "Brusier Brody" days of a romp em stomp em mountain man guy. Its hard to do that in 2008 but Necro does it amicably. Also notice that "death match" style is not done in ROH but he IS being used in a lot of street fight style matches. It's okay to wrestle in one style, because we need someone who stands out from the pack and also someone who can deliver that unorthodox style. Anyone remember Mick Foley? Not the greatest wrestler in the world, but boy could he work well within his character and his style.
Posted By: Ari Berenstein (Registered) on January 14, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Please, not the Foley comparison. Sure, Foley will be best remembered for falling off of cages and taking chair shots, but he has things Necro Butcher doesn't and likely will never have: charisma, personality, and the ability to elevate the garbage match into something special. Necro is just a crash test dummy that throws stiff punches. There is very little to care about in a character like that, except maybe the desire to see him get dropped on his head, but even that gets old.
Posted By: Guest#1435 (Guest) on January 14, 2008 at 07:48 PM
Jerome, I want to add that although I agree that AOF is not much different to any of the other factions. Giving up on ROH because of just a few people and maybe 1 - 3 matches a card seems really spiteful. Is there nothing else you like, be it a person or storyline in ROH? If yes watch and support for them.
Posted By: Guest#0009 (Guest) on January 14, 2008 at 08:03 PM
To the Guest comment below mine, I'm referring strictly to their wrestling style, which of course Foley is undoubtedly one of the links on the chain that connects to the Necro's of the world now. I never said anything about charisma or personality. Foley obviously was very special in that category, but you'd be remiss in saying Necro doesn't have any of those aspects. Even in just the one line he said at "Man Up" he exuded the unique charisma of a "wild man" character. Hey sometimes you don't have to say much or anything at all, but rather it's in HOW you say it that counts. And Necro, on the occasions that he speaks, comes across as an intriguing personality.
Posted By: Ari Berenstein (Registered) on January 14, 2008 at 10:14 PM
To the guest: It would take a lot more than just AOTF to drive me away. I should have made that a lot clearer. There are some other issues I have with the company that would also contribute
Posted By: jeromecusson (Guest) on January 14, 2008 at 10:32 PM
